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(WXYZ Detroit)   Plow driver shortages = easier lockdowns. At least that'll be the spin   (wxyz.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Snow, Driver's license, Snow removal, nationwide shortage of plow drivers, Paul Cohen, The Road, Leonard Cohen, Salt  
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1281 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Nov 2021 at 10:30 AM (33 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-11-14 8:37:36 AM  
i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-14 8:40:42 AM  

Demetrius: [i0.wp.com image 525x350]


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2021-11-14 8:45:06 AM  
Friend of mine was a township supervisor for one term he deeply regretted.

He assured me the idiots who scream about taxes and "too much government" the loudest are also the ones screaming just as loud if their street isn't plowed clean at all times during a storm.
 
2021-11-14 9:13:48 AM  
Just replace them with Robots, like McDonalds
 
2021-11-14 9:27:11 AM  
"For drivers, you don't know your earnings level because you don't know the weather.

Not much mystery here.
 
2021-11-14 10:34:29 AM  
Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.
 
2021-11-14 10:35:29 AM  
Just give all them illegals a snow-shovel each and let them have at it.
 
2021-11-14 10:37:37 AM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.
 
2021-11-14 10:37:45 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Friend of mine was a township supervisor for one term he deeply regretted.

He assured me the idiots who scream about taxes and "too much government" the loudest are also the ones screaming just as loud if their street isn't plowed clean at all times during a storm.


I know, right?

How else are they going to get their lifted turbo F350 MAGAwagon down to the local CRT protest to roll coal?
 
2021-11-14 10:38:00 AM  
I have nothing against the drivers, it's the vehicles I detest.
 
2021-11-14 10:38:51 AM  

Burn_The_Plows: I have nothing against the drivers, it's the vehicles I detest.


Makes sense... the handle
 
2021-11-14 10:39:03 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size


Get plowed.
 
2021-11-14 10:40:02 AM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


I have a super long driveway and got a cheap used plow for my tractor.  Yesterday I saw signs up hiring plow drivers at $80/hr.  If I had a heated cab I'd sign up for that side gig.
 
2021-11-14 10:40:03 AM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


There's also the whole part about climate change making the snow less reliable to predict or happen, thus making it harder to subsist on it. I know, for example, that my BiL's friend gave it up a couple of years ago because he couldn't afford to keep waiting on snow to happen here in Southern New England.

All of which is why not paying enough becomes that much more of a problem when it happens, and it does.
 
2021-11-14 10:44:04 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Friend of mine was a township supervisor for one term he deeply regretted.

He assured me the idiots who scream about taxes and "too much government" the loudest are also the ones screaming just as loud if their street isn't plowed clean at all times during a storm.


My company runs a snow removal operation in the winter to keep guys on payroll while we are unable to work due to weather. Works out great for the most part but every year we lose a couple contracts to someone who found a way cheaper company and every year around about the second significant snow fall we get emergency calls from most of them asking if we can send trucks because their cheaper company barely did anything on the first snow and are barely doing anything again on the second snow with their tenants (because it's always a large appartment building or multi tenant business complex that tries to pull this shiat) are complaining over the lack of service.

The good news is we always get most of them back and typically they don't try to price shop again for 5-6 years. We only charge modest price increases due to our labor and materials going up, I think our snow removal operations account for maybe 3-4% of total sales. It's really just a way to keep our guys busy in the winter.
 
2021-11-14 10:47:54 AM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


Ding ding ding!  We have a winner!

It's astounding how easy it is to fix a labor shortage with - wait for it - higher wages.  Sometimes much higher wages.
 
2021-11-14 10:49:21 AM  
This is amusing to me, my town has too many plow drivers and is currently recommending them to other near by towns.
 
2021-11-14 10:49:33 AM  
"To understand what's happening, you need to back up a bit and up..."

Yea back up about two paragraphs:

"For drivers, you don't know your earnings level because you don't know the weather. You're asking someone to commit to you and you don't know if you'll have a snowy winter or a dry winter,"
 
2021-11-14 10:49:46 AM  

special20: Just give all them illegals a snow-shovel each and let them have at it.


I feel like this is an alt calling out another alt
 
2021-11-14 10:54:12 AM  

iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.


That's just a number, and if that doesn't get drivers in the seats, maybe a better number is $40 or $50 or $60, etc.  I used to run a small business and having my lot plowed for customers was essential.  An hour or two of lost sales on a weekend could amount to $2K+ in unrecoverable revenue.  If I had to pay a plow driver $100 an hour to get my lot cleared prior to opening, I wouldn't hesitate.  $200, even $300 or more would have been worth it.  Municipalities should avoid being pennywise and pound foolish on plows.  Hire drivers who get paid for the season whatever that may be, and invest in good  plows.
 
2021-11-14 10:54:56 AM  
Snow?

Fark user imageView Full Size


I live on the Continental Divide, FFS.  You ever heard of "snowpack?"  It's that old-timey thing, like glaciers.
 
2021-11-14 10:57:52 AM  
SEE ITS ALL ABOUT CONTROL
IM BUYING A ZAMBONI FOR MY STREET
 
2021-11-14 11:00:40 AM  

Palined Parenthood: SEE ITS ALL ABOUT CONTROL
IM BUYING A ZAMBONI FOR MY STREET


I'm tired of all you elitists.
Who's in favor of me driving the Zamboni?
 
2021-11-14 11:04:42 AM  

edmo: "For drivers, you don't know your earnings level because you don't know the weather.

Not much mystery here.


Solution, in two easy steps:

1. Pay them the same regardless of how much snow falls.

2. Stop jerking off to the Protestant Work Ethic and being pathologically averse to "people working for free."
 
2021-11-14 11:06:27 AM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


Gotta be a racist element there too
 
2021-11-14 11:13:21 AM  
One of the silver linings of this pandemic is the refocusing on the value of labor.  Bunch of assholes still saying it's because people are lazy and don't want to work, but the longer this drags out and workers flock to companies willing to pay what their workers are worth it's going to be harder and harder for owners to ignore.  They either adapt or go out of business.

/who am I kidding
//owners are the ones that get bailouts
 
2021-11-14 11:21:28 AM  

Summoner101: One of the silver linings of this pandemic is the refocusing on the value of labor.  Bunch of assholes still saying it's because people are lazy and don't want to work, but the longer this drags out and workers flock to companies willing to pay what their workers are worth it's going to be harder and harder for owners to ignore.  They either adapt or go out of business.

/who am I kidding
//owners are the ones that get bailouts


They're also lobby the government for more temp workers.

We can't have the market not be in favor of the holy job creators.
 
2021-11-14 11:21:55 AM  

iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.


I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.
 
2021-11-14 11:31:52 AM  

TelemonianAjax: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.


Owner-operators are a dying breed, I think the original comment was just for drivers in a fleet, commercial or municipal
 
2021-11-14 11:33:41 AM  
Any chance to lessen the massholes on the roads is a plus in my book, NH resident.
 
2021-11-14 11:35:03 AM  

TelemonianAjax: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.


I'm also willing to be the semi maintenance cost is significantly higher than your embroidery machine. Not only are you not dropping thousands on fuel (and def fluid), but you also don't drop thousands on routine maintenance a year (assuming you are doing things properly). Shiat adds up quick.
 
2021-11-14 11:39:04 AM  

TelemonianAjax: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.


Well used rigs tend to be in the $55k-$80k range (without a trailer), depending on miles and maintenance. Right now, there's a huge market for Pre-DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) trucks because DEF systems are a pain in the ass. Trailers....can get expensive. Especially if we're talking about a fuel tanker. A regular flat deck is about $15-$20k.

/ some drivers do not own their own rigs or only own a piece of it. It can be little easier to get loads and maintenance if someone else owns a piece of the rig and you don't have to have your own IFTA.
 
2021-11-14 12:01:25 PM  
Take his wife, please.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-14 12:07:05 PM  

iheartscotch: TelemonianAjax: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.

Well used rigs tend to be in the $55k-$80k range (without a trailer), depending on miles and maintenance. Right now, there's a huge market for Pre-DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) trucks because DEF systems are a pain in the ass. Trailers....can get expensive. Especially if we're talking about a fuel tanker. A regular flat deck is about $15-$20k.

/ some drivers do not own their own rigs or only own a piece of it. It can be little easier to get loads and maintenance if someone else owns a piece of the rig and you don't have to have your own IFTA.


Reminds me of the set up the logistics company I worked for fifteen years ago had. Owner operators would "lease" their trucks to us and be hired as drivers for their own trucks so we would provide hauls/back hauls, billing, IFTA, log compliance, permits and other paperwork things. I think we took about 30% of the overall price of a load, less if the owner secured the load themselves.
 
2021-11-14 12:13:47 PM  
Guess I should weigh in...
$300 an hr. Not street legal.  ...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-14 12:17:59 PM  

neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.


That and a lack of instructors willing to take shiat pay.
 
2021-11-14 12:18:42 PM  

iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.


$310 an hour for state plow drivers in Mass.
 
2021-11-14 12:22:24 PM  
Didn't a clownshoe Congressman say it was getting warmer and that's a good thing?
 
2021-11-14 12:35:52 PM  

TelemonianAjax: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

I've got an entry level industrial embroidery machine. I base my pricing on how long it takes to stitch something out, $20 per hour, plus base item cost. That rate lets me cover my machine payment and make profit to boot. My machine cost 1/10 of what a semi rig would cost, I can't imagine trying to pay one of those off at only twice the rate.


A friend of mine worked in an embroidery shop. He and another guy were in charge of sewing custom women's under garments. After years there the business closed up and my friend and the other guy were out of work, so they applied for unemployment. My friends job description got him $200 but his work mate was a diesel fitter so his unemployment got him almost $400 a week. My friend was all upset so he went back to get more $ and explained how he did almost all the work, from taking all the measurements, choosing the correct material, cutting everything and the sewing it all together to the customers specifications. And all his coworker did take the newly sewn under ware, pull them over his head and say "Yep, diesel fitter"
 
2021-11-14 12:44:09 PM  
I've got a Class A, 30 years of experience OTR and a fairly rare Driving Badge from the Army for 10,000+ miles off-road in tactical vehicles. For $50/hr, 40/wk guaranteed plus paid overtime when needed and decent accommodations (Holiday Inn will do) I can be anywhere in the lower 48 next week.
 
2021-11-14 1:50:42 PM  
A 2020 RT-1000 robot clearing snow
Youtube bZKOfndO5Tg
 
2021-11-14 2:53:46 PM  
"For drivers, you don't know your earnings level because you don't know the weather. You're asking someone to commit to you and you don't know if you'll have a snowy winter or a dry winter,"

Wow, I totally and confused and wonder why no one wants to sign up for that deal!

Seriously, this is like the shiat restaurant cook job I had in high school where it was no promised hours, constantly sending me home because "It's not busy, so you're cut early." Then, on my day off, I'd come home at night after doing something with friends and my parents relayed phone messages. The kitchen manager would act all indignant that I wasn't sitting at home to be on call, waiting for them to ask me to hustle in "Because we got slammed!" and work maybe 60-90 minutes that isn't even overtime pay or anything.
 
2021-11-14 3:00:23 PM  

theteacher: $310 an hour for state plow drivers in Mass.


That's the offer for them having their own plow truck that runs, is reliable, and can show up on-call when it snows.
 
2021-11-14 3:23:50 PM  

Demetrius: [i0.wp.com image 525x350]


He knew his day would finally come..

/came for this -- leaving satisfied
 
2021-11-14 3:24:40 PM  

theteacher: iheartscotch: neongoats: Is there really a lack of plow drivers?  I'm guessing it's a lack of municipalities and landscaping companies willing to pay enough to attract plow driving talent.

It really depends on the organization that they are under and the driving license they possess. A Class A CDL driver can earn ~$30-$35 an hour and sometimes more on specific jobs.

$310 an hour for state plow drivers in Mass.


Not sure what that includes (do you have to have your own truck?  if you do, who pays for gas and maintenance?  what's the on-call policy?  etc.), but if that's what it takes to keep roads clear in Mass, so be it.
 
2021-11-14 3:26:28 PM  

keldaria: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Friend of mine was a township supervisor for one term he deeply regretted.

He assured me the idiots who scream about taxes and "too much government" the loudest are also the ones screaming just as loud if their street isn't plowed clean at all times during a storm.

My company runs a snow removal operation in the winter to keep guys on payroll while we are unable to work due to weather. Works out great for the most part but every year we lose a couple contracts to someone who found a way cheaper company and every year around about the second significant snow fall we get emergency calls from most of them asking if we can send trucks because their cheaper company barely did anything on the first snow and are barely doing anything again on the second snow with their tenants (because it's always a large appartment building or multi tenant business complex that tries to pull this shiat) are complaining over the lack of service.

The good news is we always get most of them back and typically they don't try to price shop again for 5-6 years. We only charge modest price increases due to our labor and materials going up, I think our snow removal operations account for maybe 3-4% of total sales. It's really just a way to keep our guys busy in the winter.


Same with my brothers and nephews -- construction contracts in the summer -- snow removal to keep the boys busy and paid in the winter. Much of it for cash, no less.
 
2021-11-14 3:42:23 PM  

Unemployedingreenland: Not sure what that includes (do you have to have your own truck?  if you do, who pays for gas and maintenance?  what's the on-call policy?  etc.)


Yes, it's an across-the-transom pay rate for contractors. You have to own the truck, with plow, and it has to be "functional" and reliable and they call you up when they need your work.
 
2021-11-14 3:42:58 PM  

RasIanI: snow removal to keep the boys busy and paid in the winter. Much of it for cash, no less.


Let me guess: Meanwhile, they're cashing funemployment checks?
 
2021-11-14 3:49:54 PM  

mrmopar5287: Unemployedingreenland: Not sure what that includes (do you have to have your own truck?  if you do, who pays for gas and maintenance?  what's the on-call policy?  etc.)

Yes, it's an across-the-transom pay rate for contractors. You have to own the truck, with plow, and it has to be "functional" and reliable and they call you up when they need your work.


Seems reasonable, or at least not unreasonable.
 
2021-11-14 3:59:34 PM  

Unemployedingreenland: Seems reasonable, or at least not unreasonable.


I thought so as well. If you're someone who already owns a truck with a plow for whatever reason and you don't mind putting yourself out there for some on-call work, it's cash in hand to work a few snow storms here and there if you are able to do it.
 
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