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(Game Rant)   "Superman the Animated Series never reached the acclaim and is not remembered as fondly as Batman. Why?"   (gamerant.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Batman, Lex Luthor, Batman: The Animated Series, Joker, Two-Face, Gotham City, Animated Series, feature-length Batman films  
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812 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 08 Nov 2021 at 5:20 PM (40 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-11-08 3:24:41 PM  
Because it 1) came after Batman and 2) was worse.
 
2021-11-08 3:25:36 PM  
Superman is a shiatty character.
 
2021-11-08 3:31:16 PM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 3:38:24 PM  
Creating tension and drama with an invulnerable character is hard.  Batman can always have a threat of danger, and uses cunning to evade problems when his toys fail.

Breaking down Superman is pretty much an all or nothing thing, and when he's just Clark he's boring.

JLU at times was really the only show where I'd say they found some clever ways to create some tension in his storylines, but usually it was still unbalanced, He can get punched through multiple buildings and come right back from that, but hitting him with a car takes him out for a few seconds.  DC could have created a very different character with some amount of tension if his powers were immediately cut in half when not in sunlight for example.

/maybe Toyota's have Kryptonite brake shoes in Metropolis?
 
2021-11-08 3:41:30 PM  

sassyfrancis: Creating tension and drama with an invulnerable character is hard.  Batman can always have a threat of danger, and uses cunning to evade problems when his toys fail.

Breaking down Superman is pretty much an all or nothing thing, and when he's just Clark he's boring.

JLU at times was really the only show where I'd say they found some clever ways to create some tension in his storylines, but usually it was still unbalanced, He can get punched through multiple buildings and come right back from that, but hitting him with a car takes him out for a few seconds.  DC could have created a very different character with some amount of tension if his powers were immediately cut in half when not in sunlight for example.

/maybe Toyota's have Kryptonite brake shoes in Metropolis?


Hand wave it as a kryptonite fuel additive put in place by LexCorp. Increases mileage by 5% and weakens Kryptonians.
 
2021-11-08 4:00:23 PM  
Superman was invented at 4pm on a Friday afternoon. "Let's just...I don't know give him ALL the powers. Everything. Yes, now can we go home???"
 
2021-11-08 4:04:00 PM  
Superman was only good when facing someone who was equal or more powerful. When you're a walking god, that can be either hard to do, or gets boring because you just start repeating uber-powerfuls that get stale. It's why his "World of Cardboard" speech is so well-regarded, and at the same time one of the few scenes anyone remembers about the animated series. It was basically him explaining "I've intentionally been boring this whole time. Now let me cut loose."
 
2021-11-08 4:14:44 PM  
Superman sucks.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 4:27:27 PM  
I like Superman better than Batman, but that show just wasn't as good. It was boring.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2021-11-08 4:44:27 PM  

dr_blasto: Superman sucks.

[Fark user image image 425x417]


Damn, has he heard of leg day?
 
2021-11-08 5:07:42 PM  
The one that sticks out in my mind was when the god-trickster Mr. Mxyzptlk (voiced by Gilbert Gottfried) used his omnipotent powers to disrupt Metropolis.

Superman was bored defeating him.

I was bored watching Superman defeat him.
 
2021-11-08 5:09:26 PM  

Combustion: Superman was invented at 4pm on a Friday afternoon. "Let's just...I don't know give him ALL the powers. Everything. Yes, now can we go home???"


Well, technically, when Superman was invented (i.e. Action Comics #1), he was much less powerful.  He could jump super far, could lift a car, was mostly bulletproof, and could run really fast (but not race around the world fast).  He was invented by two Jewish creators who wanted him to represent the outsider in America.  They chose the name Kal El, with "El" being a Hebrew word for "God".

He got significantly powered up over time and is effectively a god.  There are ways to write a good Superman story, but it's hard.  A children's cartoon with regular episodes is not the most interesting or effective medium for Superman.  Batman is much easier to write interesting stories for (and TAS was just great in general).
 
2021-11-08 5:14:22 PM  
Invincible had a muuuuch more interesting superman character.
 
2021-11-08 5:22:31 PM  
I like the significantly depowered at night angle, he would be a much more interesting character if he was a pretty average Joe when the sun went down.
 
2021-11-08 5:26:13 PM  
Because everything about Superman is a dated story that hasn't withstood time and updates unlike Batman, the X men, Spiderman, and even Wonderwoman.

Clark Kent is also boring by design.
 
2021-11-08 5:29:23 PM  

sassyfrancis: DC could have created a very different character with some amount of tension if his powers were immediately cut in half when not in sunlight for example.


frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 5:30:25 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Superman is a shiatty character.


Only if you think Syndrome was the "true" hero in "The Incredibles".
 
2021-11-08 5:33:07 PM  
It was not as good. Very flat storytelling.
 
2021-11-08 5:34:31 PM  
No Mark Hamill?
 
2021-11-08 5:36:37 PM  
Batman: TAS will always be the more important one if for no other reason than being first.  If Batman wasn't successful, there's no Superman and thus no DCAU.  Also Gargoyles probably doesn't get a shot.   Strangely enough, Batman: TAS almost prevented some of the greatest moments of Animaniacs because initially the Animaniacs folks didn't want to hire Randy Rogel, someone then only known for writing on an action/drama.
 
2021-11-08 5:38:21 PM  
Do you know what would be interesting? Instead of having end-of-the-world style villains, have there be smaller, mysterious crimes happening that Clark Kent needs to use his investigative reporter skills on.

And the fact he's Superman would just be a bonus.

I mentioned this before, in the Green Arrow 80th anniversary issue, there were several stories from different time periods.

Him catching a common crook using trick arrows was much more enjoyable than him acting super human fighting aliens on the Justice League space station was.... stupid.

I would love to dial back EVERY superhero franchise.  I mean, once you've done "wiping out half of life EVERYWHERE" it's sort of hard to "outdo" yourself.

It's just exhausting.
 
2021-11-08 5:40:43 PM  
The three-episode World's Finest was what BvS should have been.
Superman meets Batman for the first time
Youtube BJURV-vbQEU

"I heard you were crazy.  I didn't think you were stupid."
 
2021-11-08 5:48:20 PM  

somedude210: No Mark Hamill?


Counterpoint: Clancy Brown was and is the greatest Lex Luthor.

I am willing to fight and die on this hill.
 
2021-11-08 5:49:50 PM  

skyotter: The three-episode World's Finest was what BvS should have been.
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/BJURV-vbQEU?start=81]
"I heard you were crazy.  I didn't think you were stupid."


The entire DCAU/Timm-verse is what the DCEU should have been.
 
2021-11-08 5:50:27 PM  

Hoban Washburne: Combustion: Superman was invented at 4pm on a Friday afternoon. "Let's just...I don't know give him ALL the powers. Everything. Yes, now can we go home???"

Well, technically, when Superman was invented (i.e. Action Comics #1), he was much less powerful.  He could jump super far, could lift a car, was mostly bulletproof, and could run really fast (but not race around the world fast).  He was invented by two Jewish creators who wanted him to represent the outsider in America.  They chose the name Kal El, with "El" being a Hebrew word for "God".

He got significantly powered up over time and is effectively a god.  There are ways to write a good Superman story, but it's hard.  A children's cartoon with regular episodes is not the most interesting or effective medium for Superman.  Batman is much easier to write interesting stories for (and TAS was just great in general).


Username checks out.
 
2021-11-08 6:05:58 PM  
The most irritating thing about the Timm-Dini Superman is that to show how powerful
a foe is, Kal is always knocked on his ass. (also see Lt.Worf, the paper tiger Klingon)

Which is annoying if that character supposedly can run hundreds of miles an hour and can levitate.
He should be slipping punches a mach speed.

Most annoying still is if Bat Man is thrown, he will always do a graceful backwards gainer and
land on his feet crouched like a farking cat. always

/even after his moment of ultimate glory when he 911'd Darkseid thru at least 3 skyscrapers,
he still gets his ass handed to him. (oh noes not the electro shock of death!!)
//actually just watched "Justice League vs the Fatal Five" last nite. (he was on his ass a lot)
 
2021-11-08 6:07:49 PM  
because superman is boring as hell
 
2021-11-08 6:13:53 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: somedude210: No Mark Hamill?

Counterpoint: Clancy Brown was and is the greatest Lex Luthor.

I am willing to fight and die on this hill.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 6:15:13 PM  
Yeah, but it led to the JL and JLU which was almost BTAS quality.

World of Cardboard
Youtube Cl_5UwS57X8
 
2021-11-08 6:17:04 PM  

skyotter: The three-episode World's Finest was what BvS should have been.
[YouTube video: Superman meets Batman for the first time]
"I heard you were crazy.  I didn't think you were stupid."


Superman TAS was great, if you like Superman.

To answer the article writers question, the reason Superman TAS is overlooked is because it was sandwiched between two great shows that used to premiere on a Thursday or Friday night as an event. Batman TAS made me mad because every good episode was a cliffhanger, and Justice League was a fantastic show with cliffhanger episodes. Superman, if I recall, had a complete story arc that lead into the  Justice League series, but I don't recall too many cliffhanger episodes that didn't involve Darkseid. A lot of the nostalgia we feel for the DCAU is because of the world building in Superman TAS. The Lex Luther in Superman TAS is the same Lex Luther we all know and love in Justice League, who is arguably the best Lex Luther in DC.
 
2021-11-08 6:20:38 PM  

dr_blasto: Superman sucks.

[Fark user image image 425x417]


Yeah, but the kid wants to be Superman I-II Kal-El.
 
2021-11-08 6:22:57 PM  
Superman's series was ok. But there was a lack of tension. And BTAS focused on more mature subject matter.

It did bring about JL and JLU which were pretty damn awesome.
 
2021-11-08 6:24:53 PM  
Also it's as inconsistent as always but one of the recent Superman runs had an interpretation of him that I liked.  He was up against some mad science/space/sci-fi villain who managed to shoot him with some ray gun thing or another.  And Superman gets back up as the villain is gloating and says something like, "You people always say things like that. 'A weapon that can hurt even you!'  It's not really that difficult to injure me."  "The trick is surviving what I do next."

I like Superman being super-tough, but far stronger than he is tough.  You put two bruisers up against each other they're not invulnerable cause they're super strong, they're tougher, but they're easily capable of knocking each other TF out.
 
2021-11-08 6:25:39 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: Yeah, but it led to the JL and JLU which was almost BTAS quality.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cl_5UwS57X8]


the justice league show was formulaic and dumb as hell.
every episode at the 8 minute mark they're fighting some rocks or robots, some faceless boring enemy. there were set beats. it was boring bang boom pow shiat.
anything interesting was a faithful adaptation of a comic book run.

the batman show was different, let writers be creative with the characters, make shiat up, be weird, be artsy fartsy. batman was supposed to be the hero, but he wasn't always right. and it was a surprise because it was obviously a cash-in on the burton movie.
 
2021-11-08 6:30:34 PM  
Why? Because it sucked.
Anyway, the best Batman is Adam West.
 
2021-11-08 6:36:14 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Superman is a shiatty character.


No, it's just the things that make him interesting do not translate well to a 30 minute cartoon.  Smallville was great because it had an hours worth to tell a contained story while adding to an overall arc and since Clarke was still discovering his powers it was easier to put him in vulnerable situations.  With Batman he's always vulnerable, so it's easier to put him in danger.
 
2021-11-08 6:36:57 PM  

somedude210: No Mark Hamill?


Or Kevin Conroy.
 
2021-11-08 6:42:03 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: I like Superman being super-tough, but far stronger than he is tough. You put two bruisers up against each other they're not invulnerable cause they're super strong, they're tougher, but they're easily capable of knocking each other TF out.


That seems like a pretty solid take.  Strong and resilient as he is, he's still got to obey the laws of physics, so if he'shiat with something could knock a solidly-built adult man flat on his ass or smack him through a building, that's what's going to happen.  He'll get back up without any broken bones or whatever, but he'll still take the hit.

Moreover, he has so much raw power that (one-off stories about Muhammad Ali teaching him to box or whatever aside) he's never actually learned to handle himself in a straight-up fight.  Batman's just a human, so he's had to learn to fight smart or to fall without getting hurt, but Supes can always just power through, so he relies on that power.  He doesn't have much real experience fighting things on his level, so when something can actually match him blow-for-blow, he either has to find more power or find a way to circumvent the fight altogether.
 
2021-11-08 6:56:54 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Superman is a shiatty character.


Supes is a shiatty character if you're interested in making the same ol' popcorn-munching pew-pew nonsense the comics have been filled with since the... 1960s?

If you're actually interested in writing the character, an immigrant (literal alien) journalist who uses a fake identity to navigate and interact with the world because his real identity is Invulnerable Supergod should be chock-full of interesting stuff.

Hell, just being a do-gooder reporter doggedly chasing down leads and trying not to kill people when he so much as flicks a space-booger out the window could make a better film than basically anything since Chris Reeves first wore the tights. Hollywood hates optimism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sadly, the same way we rarely get Detective Batman in the movies, we never really get Journalist Kal-El. We get the same lame-ass CGI punchfests, which reduces Superman to the bullied kid's older brother. Farking YAWN.

// Snyder kind of got close, by showing us how Kal became Clark/Superman (or trying to)
// I know a lot of people expect that Kal was ALWAYS The Nicest Being in the Universe, and seeing him impale a truck on a phone pole made them sad (although I do wonder how that is "keeping a low profile" - something else I might not have expected him to have learned all the nuances of in the farking womb), but isn't it more interesting to see HOW that develops, rather than starting with "well, this Kansan is just the nicest thing since Ma Kent's blueberry pie!"
// I mean, how do you develop a character who starts from that point? (you could make him turn evil, but that is VERY much not Supes and would probably piss off the nerds even more)
 
2021-11-08 6:57:00 PM  
Because it just isn't as good. I'm not saying it isn't good at all, it was fun. But when people talk about the best cartoons of the 90's, typically you'll hear Batman TAS, Gargoyles, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, or The Tick mentioned.
 
2021-11-08 7:52:53 PM  

ViciousX: Because it just isn't as good. I'm not saying it isn't good at all, it was fun. But when people talk about the best cartoons of the 90's, typically you'll hear Batman TAS, Gargoyles, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, or The Tick mentioned.


flxt.tmsimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 7:56:16 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Superman is a shiatty character.


Sums it up.
 
2021-11-08 7:59:34 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: The one that sticks out in my mind was when the god-trickster Mr. Mxyzptlk (voiced by Gilbert Gottfried) used his omnipotent powers to disrupt Metropolis.

Superman was bored defeating him.

I was bored watching Superman defeat him.


Actually that's one of my favorite - and funniest - Superman episodes. The rule being if Superman could get him to say, spell, or otherwise reveal his name backwards, "Kltpzyxm" (Pronounced "Kill-tip-see-zim"), Mxyzptlk would leave him alone for ninety days.

Superman Keeps Tricking Mr. Mxyzptlk - Superman: The Animated Series
Youtube PRkZABDQKPQ
 
2021-11-08 8:00:58 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: skyotter: The three-episode World's Finest was what BvS should have been.
[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/BJURV-vbQEU?start=81]
"I heard you were crazy.  I didn't think you were stupid."

The entire DCAU/Timm-verse is what the DCEU should have been.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-08 8:08:06 PM  
I don't mention it specifically, but that's because I tend to think of the DCAU - especially the early DCAU - as a whole.

Like, sure, BTAS was first and groundbreaking and all that, STAS wasn't similarly groundbreaking it did prove the formula and pave the way for the expansions into JL, BB, JLU and SS

I wouldn't say I liked it more than BTAS, but I liked that it was different - Bruce Wayne really is just the mask that Batman wears, and the show is just about Batman, his villains, and his allies, while Superman is also Clark Kent, so we get to know Superman's villains and allies, but also Clark's coworkers and parents - his job and his life.

Also STAS Lois > BTAS Harley or Ivy, though I recognize there's some mileage may vary on that note.

\Oh, and the people who whine that Supes is too powerful and therefor boring always forget his completely ordinary human level M.Def score.
 
2021-11-08 8:08:20 PM  
I like Superman TAS, but prefer the episodes where his powers can't solve the problems outright. Villains like Parasite or Mr Mxyzptlk are more interesting to me for that reason.

I haven't read any Superman comics since Morrison's Action Comics run. Is there a good run where Superman takes on political corruption, famine, or some other issue where he can't save the day by punching hard?
 
2021-11-08 8:33:53 PM  
Because the villian wasn't in manchildren's favorite spaceman movies.
 
2021-11-08 8:34:41 PM  
Superman can be interesting briefly.  Batman can be interesting constantly.

Also, no Harley's Day Out.
 
2021-11-08 8:39:58 PM  

browneye: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: The one that sticks out in my mind was when the god-trickster Mr. Mxyzptlk (voiced by Gilbert Gottfried) used his omnipotent powers to disrupt Metropolis.

Superman was bored defeating him.

I was bored watching Superman defeat him.

Actually that's one of my favorite - and funniest - Superman episodes. The rule being if Superman could get him to say, spell, or otherwise reveal his name backwards, "Kltpzyxm" (Pronounced "Kill-tip-see-zim"), Mxyzptlk would leave him alone for ninety days.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/PRkZABDQKPQ?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsapi=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&widgetid=1]


Fark user imageView Full Size


(bored) "He beat you again, huh?" 

Ms. Gsptlsnz is the audience stand-in here.
 
2021-11-08 9:05:13 PM  

Underwater Bystander: I haven't read any Superman comics since Morrison's Action Comics run. Is there a good run where Superman takes on political corruption, famine, or some other issue where he can't save the day by punching hard?


No.  I've commented on this on Fark before.
I've been reading Action only since The New 52 but continued on through Rebirth to today.

It is all absolute garbage.  And I LIKE Superman!!!
Each issue is seemingly unrelated to the  last.
Each page references something that happened in a different title 3 years ago.

The stories are a convoluted mess.  Like I said above, each threat has to be bigger and bigger so that there is no more tension because it's all tooooo gigantic!

And it keeps introducing characters that they just assume I know who they are.

Especially bad with the start of The New 52 was it was supposed to be a reboot, therefore you would think they would introduce characters.   But like 5 issues in it was "oh, it's my son, from the future, who is a cross between me and and Lex Luthor" (shrug)

Now, granted, I'm a Superman nerd so I basically know the whole mythos, but even still, if you're writing a book, you have to assume the reader doesn't know what you are talking about.

I only keep reading it because I'm buddies with the comic shop owner, times are tough, and I hate to cancel titles and hurt his business.
 
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