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(San Francisco Examiner)   NYT columnist Paul Krugman: "Dune" is the movie we always wanted   (sfexaminer.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Bene Gesserit, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Dune, David Lynch, Paul Atreides, House Atreides, lives of bookish 14-year-olds  
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695 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 28 Oct 2021 at 7:38 AM (28 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-28 9:00:56 AM  
I'm waiting to see this movie like

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2021-10-28 9:47:24 AM  
Gotta agree. I loved the books and have been cynical about how successful anyone could be in adapting even the first one. I was pleasantly surprised and I'm really looking forward to part 2.
 
2021-10-28 9:57:54 AM  
I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.
 
2021-10-28 10:00:06 AM  
it was really good.  i went to see it twice and that very rarely happens.   Jason Mamoa looked strangely puffy without the beard though.
 
2021-10-28 10:01:16 AM  
Since there was never* a comic book of "Dune", my wife isn't interested.  I think I'll just re-read the books.

*At least, no a comic book she followed.
/"Eternals" next week. The trailers make it look like a real snoozer.
 
2021-10-28 10:02:44 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.


Those desert shots were beautiful though.  Dennis Villlenneue is probably my favorite working director; he making a play for best all time.
 
2021-10-28 10:05:33 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: I'm waiting to see this movie like

[Fark user image 320x400] [View Full Size image _x_]


Try to see it on as large a screen as possible - IMAX if you can manage it. This movie has NatGeo-levels of cinematography, and was a visual treat to watch at the theater.
 
2021-10-28 10:06:00 AM  

natazha: Since there was never* a comic book of "Dune", my wife isn't interested.  I think I'll just re-read the books.

*At least, no a comic book she followed.
/"Eternals" next week. The trailers make it look like a real snoozer.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Sienkiewicz, man, Sienkiewicz.
 
2021-10-28 10:16:19 AM  

natazha: Since there was never* a comic book of "Dune", my wife isn't interested.  I think I'll just re-read the books.

*At least, no a comic book she followed.
/"Eternals" next week. The trailers make it look like a real snoozer.


Got this a few months ago. This is also part 1 but it cuts off when Paul and Jessica get out of the tent. Part 2 next year.

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-28 10:52:26 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.


I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.

Still, it was an enjoyable film on what is a tricky book to adapt to a 2 to 3 hour movie.

However, I'm really hoping that the Baron and Rabban have more screen time and are more interesting in part 2.  I mean c'mon.... the baddies are central to an action movie.
 
2021-10-28 10:55:43 AM  

SirEattonHogg: I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.


It was pretty somber -- just like Gladiator. I don't think anyone smiled once in either movie. (The true stars of those films might be the cinematography and music.)

Then again, what happens to all the characters in both movies kinda sucks. I could understand them never smiling.
 
2021-10-28 10:59:16 AM  
It's the movie he's always wanted, I wanted something closer to Jodorowski's Dune.  It's telling that Krugman's  favorite work is Asimov's Foundation series, it's the ne plus ultra of all-brains-no-heart story and writing.  I loved the ideas of Asimov's, but his writing left me cold, the same way that this grand spectacle version of Dune left me cold.  I don't know where Krugman sees the additional depth in any of these characters, the only one who seems deeper than his screen image is Skarsgard's Baron, and he's basically doing Fat Brando from Apocalypse Now.  No, I definitely think that Dune should have been Lynchian, only moreso:

Jodorowsky's Dune (2014) - HD Trailer
Youtube jg4OCeSTL08
 
2021-10-28 11:11:35 AM  

SirEattonHogg: Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.

I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.

Still, it was an enjoyable film on what is a tricky book to adapt to a 2 to 3 hour movie.

However, I'm really hoping that the Baron and Rabban have more screen time and are more interesting in part 2.  I mean c'mon.... the baddies are central to an action movie.


I get the sense that Villlenneue was trying to cover ground not shown or focused on in the Lynch movie or the miniseries. Hence things like the Sardukkar getting just as attention as the Harkonnens. Not a bad thing overall but it did result in a weird emphasis on a couple plot point and characters.

Still looking forward to the sequel and hoping for a Lord of the Rings style extended version.
 
2021-10-28 11:14:13 AM  

bostonguy: SirEattonHogg: I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.

It was pretty somber -- just like Gladiator. I don't think anyone smiled once in either movie. (The true stars of those films might be the cinematography and music.)

Then again, what happens to all the characters in both movies kinda sucks. I could understand them never smiling.


True.  It's a grim story with even getting screwed in the later books.  But still, everyone is fairly monotone.  In Lynch's Dune, the Baron is screaming with delight when he talks about his plan to take back Arrakis.  Patrick Stewart's Gurney seemed like a total no nonsense hard ass. You could tell Dr. Yueh was upset about his wife being held by the Harkonnens in the literally one minute of screen time he had in the movie. Etc etc. The characters in Dune 2021 are wooden. I guess Dune 2021 has the characters take a back seat to the overall story which I suppose has its merits.
 
2021-10-28 11:17:06 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: SirEattonHogg: Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.

I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.

Still, it was an enjoyable film on what is a tricky book to adapt to a 2 to 3 hour movie.

However, I'm really hoping that the Baron and Rabban have more screen time and are more interesting in part 2.  I mean c'mon.... the baddies are central to an action movie.

I get the sense that Villlenneue was trying to cover ground not shown or focused on in the Lynch movie or the miniseries. Hence things like the Sardukkar getting just as attention as the Harkonnens. Not a bad thing overall but it did result in a weird emphasis on a couple plot point and characters.

Still looking forward to the sequel and hoping for a Lord of the Rings style extended version.


Definitely.  I have some qualms about the movie, but he could have blown the pacing, made it boring or incomprehensible which would have killed the box office and the sequel.
 
2021-10-28 11:52:14 AM  

deadsanta: It's the movie he's always wanted, I wanted something closer to Jodorowski's Dune.  It's telling that Krugman's  favorite work is Asimov's Foundation series, it's the ne plus ultra of all-brains-no-heart story and writing.  I loved the ideas of Asimov's, but his writing left me cold, the same way that this grand spectacle version of Dune left me cold.  I don't know where Krugman sees the additional depth in any of these characters, the only one who seems deeper than his screen image is Skarsgard's Baron, and he's basically doing Fat Brando from Apocalypse Now.  No, I definitely think that Dune should have been Lynchian, only moreso:

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/jg4OCeSTL08]


That version of Dune would have been a glorious mess, and hated even more than Lynch's version. Jodorowski never even read the book.
 
2021-10-28 12:44:30 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.

I agree.  The characters were really flat in the movie.   Lynch's version had far more interesting characters.  It seems like everyone except maybe Jason Momoa and the dude who plays Stilgar were taking sleeping pills.

Still, it was an enjoyable film on what is a tricky book to adapt to a 2 to 3 hour movie.

However, I'm really hoping that the Baron and Rabban have more screen time and are more interesting in part 2.  I mean c'mon.... the baddies are central to an action movie.


The dude who plays stilgar is javier bardem.

I'm not sure he is capable of sleepwalking a role or phoning it in.

I've yet to see him do it anyhoo.
 
2021-10-28 1:01:59 PM  
Tons of advertisement telling me to see it, that's Hollywood for you.
FINALLY seeing some disagreement though: too glossy, minimal character development, etc., and my favorite: "Too epic-y!"
 
2021-10-28 1:08:00 PM  
Dune 2021 was flat out amazing. If you disagree you're just wrong.
 
2021-10-28 1:15:37 PM  

fastfxr: Tons of advertisement telling me to see it, that's Hollywood for you.


God forbid that a company that spent $165 million to make a movie should try convince people to see it.
 
2021-10-28 1:25:15 PM  
Good, not great.
 
2021-10-28 1:34:30 PM  
I like all the bunnies in it
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-28 1:42:29 PM  
I liked it. I will watch it again. My only problem was the lack of mask wearing. You are in the desert and will die from a lack of water, so wear your goddamn mask!

/if the second movie shows people die from dehydration by not wearing masks, then I will accept it as a thematic metaphor the modern era
 
2021-10-28 1:46:09 PM  
Thus, the Bene Gesserit derive their power not from magic but from deep self-control, awareness and understanding of human psychology.

... so that explains why he thinks it's "subtle", he apparently hasn't read it again since he was 14 and relies on the (dramatically ironic) self-assessments of the characters instead of immediately recognizing the historical reference and why it's plot relevant that those self assessments are false/in-universe propaganda.

Like, I've gotten on people's case for reading Dune as a book about colonialism only, but the Bene Gesserit maintaining their power through control of the education system, literally practicing eugenics, having a line about how "real people" have intellect and emotional self control that the subhuman masses lack, and being completely wrong about almost literally everything (including claiming magical powers that also turn out not to work as prophesied) is a pretty blunt reference, man. The holy book they use is even literally called the Catholic Bible, subtle this specific thing was not.

// Them not actually understanding some super basic human psychology is the root of their downfall as well, like it never occurs to them that nobles like to have power and married people with multiple children might like and trust each other sometimes. Those are the actual two thing that derail their attempt to seize more power and puts them on the new emperor's bad side for a while.
 
2021-10-28 2:19:21 PM  

Spice Must Flow: I like all the bunnies in it
[Fark user image 425x491]


godxiliary.comView Full Size


ALIEN VERSUS POOH
 
2021-10-28 2:22:36 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The holy book they use is even literally called the Catholic Bible, subtle this specific thing was not.


Orange Bible
 
2021-10-28 2:23:39 PM  
or both
 
2021-10-28 2:24:07 PM  
Is it a stand alone movie or is part two necessary to complete the story?
 
2021-10-28 2:24:35 PM  
The movie was fine.

The new movie didn't add any new scenes that weren't in the first movie but were in the book. Visiting the Sadaukar prison-planet and a visit from the Emperor's lackeys formally announcing the handover of Arrakis were actually just inventions. Almost every scene in the new movie was also in Lynch's. It stretched out over more time and was better lit, but the same thing happened. Duncan got a heroes death in the new one and Liet died differently. Also, the new Chani can't act.
 
2021-10-28 2:41:27 PM  

Copperbelly watersnake: I liked it, but was a bit disappointed that some of the characters got short changed. Liet and the Baron especially could have benefited from more screen time. I realize something has to get sacrificed for the sake of run time, but character development seems more important than yet more dramatic desert shots.


Maybe a directors cut will come then.

At least is isn't broken like Bladerunner was, until the directors cut came.
 
2021-10-28 2:45:25 PM  
Maybe Im getting old, but my only complaint was that the action scene noise was at like a 10 and the dialogue was at 4. I kept going up and down with the remote the whole movie, was kind of distracting.
 
2021-10-28 2:49:19 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: deadsanta: It's the movie he's always wanted, I wanted something closer to Jodorowski's Dune.  It's telling that Krugman's  favorite work is Asimov's Foundation series, it's the ne plus ultra of all-brains-no-heart story and writing.  I loved the ideas of Asimov's, but his writing left me cold, the same way that this grand spectacle version of Dune left me cold.  I don't know where Krugman sees the additional depth in any of these characters, the only one who seems deeper than his screen image is Skarsgard's Baron, and he's basically doing Fat Brando from Apocalypse Now.  No, I definitely think that Dune should have been Lynchian, only moreso:

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/jg4OCeSTL08]

That version of Dune would have been a glorious mess, and hated even more than Lynch's version. Jodorowski never even read the book.


Yup.  It would have been Alien: Resurrection bad.
 
2021-10-28 3:00:11 PM  

madgonad: The movie was fine.

The new movie didn't add any new scenes that weren't in the first movie but were in the book. Visiting the Sadaukar prison-planet and a visit from the Emperor's lackeys formally announcing the handover of Arrakis were actually just inventions. Almost every scene in the new movie was also in Lynch's. It stretched out over more time and was better lit, but the same thing happened. Duncan got a heroes death in the new one and Liet died differently. Also, the new Chani can't act.


She didn't have much to work with in this movie. She basically gives her "I smell poop" face as she looks at Paul in one scene and that's about it.
 
2021-10-28 3:10:48 PM  
Betty White porn?
 
2021-10-28 3:11:28 PM  

MarkTimeTire: Is it a stand alone movie or is part two necessary to complete the story?


It isn't the complete story. But it does feel like it has an arc with a conclusion. It doesn't end on a cliffhanger or anything like that.
 
2021-10-28 3:15:42 PM  
I loved DV's Blade Runner 2049. It surprisingly came close to the original. You can even argue it surpassed it.

This Dune? It's stale. Sure, it gets the basic gist of Dune, doesn't go for the bizarre cringe of Lynch.

But Lynch's cringe did carry the story. And it gave both its character and plot flavor. Neither which is in the 2021 Dune in great qualities.

Freakery also makes scenes memorable. I really had trouble remembering this movie, other than what made me facepalm or annoyed me. Original Reverend Mother box scene: freaky, but actually disturbing with the dissolving hand, psychedelic colors, Paul speed blurting a mantra, then orgasm. New: Just Hans Zimmer going nuts on a new BWAAHM substitute. Paul just seems like a "f--k you, old lady" brat in the scene (Jessica already had good emotional weight prepping Paul; with her doing the mantra as prayer, she's overcompensating for angry wooden Paul).

More bits I'll comment on:

-Piter de Vries was wasted as a henchman. Guy was nasty in the novel and '80s flick, played a significant role in the plan to kill the Atreides and his death was a small victory for the good morals. Here? An errand boy with a few lines and "oh, he died" moment.

-If you're going to pander, go for the gold. Just have Hans Zimmer play this whenever Dr. Yueh appears. It's got BWAAHMS. And Yueh AND Paul are going to know Mandarin 20,000 years later? Made me overlook in the future, you can diagnose a VIP royal family member through phrenology. Lynch at least gave his Yueh a spotlight tricorder instrument.
Chinese National Anthem - "Yìyǒngjūn Jìnxíngqǔ" (ZH/EN)
Youtube IeMFXiEq_ow



-Speaking of Hans Zimmer, points for the Bene Gesserit music. Only bit I can remember of the entire soundtrack. Any way, Toto defeats Zimmer so far. (Haven't seen the entirety of the Dune miniseries, just best of mocking bits. F--k, the costuming peoples gotta be interviewed, all I'm saying. And that ain't Beetlejuice's Otho as Baron? Fooled me; looks like him.)

-STARING is the new "you hear my thoughts" we are going to mock from this Dune. Lynch's whispering at least can illustrate the story, and helps the audience connect with the mantras that fuel the people of this universe. Not every shot of Paul staring off into the desert is going to be "Luke Skywalker looking out at Tatooine's sunset" deep.

-Paul Atriedes is not just a horny teenager in his visions (I would have killed for a line from the Reverend Mother mocking him and Jessica for that), he or DV has a foot fetish. Temperature on Arrakis is 140 degrees or more, you think you're going to wear flimsy flip flops on those vertical dunes which sit upon a planet that can dehydrate you fatally in two hours? It was background chatter that no one should go out without proper dress in Arrakis, even in the city area. I think we need a Chani vision count and compare it to Lynch's too. At least Lynch had her in the stillsuit. How many other problems with the film could have been addressed with half the daydreaming about Chani scenes removed?
 
2021-10-28 3:22:31 PM  

madgonad: The movie was fine.

The new movie didn't add any new scenes that weren't in the first movie but were in the book. Visiting the Sadaukar prison-planet and a visit from the Emperor's lackeys formally announcing the handover of Arrakis were actually just inventions. Almost every scene in the new movie was also in Lynch's. It stretched out over more time and was better lit, but the same thing happened. Duncan got a heroes death in the new one and Liet died differently. Also, the new Chani can't act.


Didn't they add the entire sequence meeting up with Duncan and going to the research facility? I haven't seen the Lynch film in years, but as I recall that was skipped and in it and Paul and Jessica went straight from fleeing Arrakeen to joining Stilgar.

Also, that isn't too surprising because the first half of the story was much more comprehensively covered by Lynch than the remainder. The film definitely feels like most of the cuts came from what was supposed to be the second half of Lynch's 3-4 hours plan.
 
2021-10-28 3:45:54 PM  

steve_wmn: madgonad: The movie was fine.

The new movie didn't add any new scenes that weren't in the first movie but were in the book. Visiting the Sadaukar prison-planet and a visit from the Emperor's lackeys formally announcing the handover of Arrakis were actually just inventions. Almost every scene in the new movie was also in Lynch's. It stretched out over more time and was better lit, but the same thing happened. Duncan got a heroes death in the new one and Liet died differently. Also, the new Chani can't act.

She didn't have much to work with in this movie. She basically gives her "I smell poop" face as she looks at Paul in one scene and that's about it.


Well, she did smell poop, she regularly shiats in her stillsuit.
 
2021-10-28 3:52:28 PM  

Karma Chameleon: Maybe Im getting old, but my only complaint was that the action scene noise was at like a 10 and the dialogue was at 4. I kept going up and down with the remote the whole movie, was kind of distracting.


That's every movie made for at least the last 25 years.

Dune was egregious about it though.
 
2021-10-28 4:12:23 PM  

dywed88: Didn't they add the entire sequence meeting up with Duncan and going to the research facility? I haven't seen the Lynch film in years, but as I recall that was skipped and in it and Paul and Jessica went straight from fleeing Arrakeen to joining Stilgar.


Nah, they chopped it out. Duncan's efforts to save them were before they were captured. They were prisoners in the transport when they escaped. Lynch's version kept everything in sequence. During the attack Duncan set off a Lasgun/shield explosion and almost got Paul and Jessica out. They fled to the botanical testing station and that is where the Sardaukar caught up with them and killed him. He did kill 19 Sardaukar in the book, so Momoa's heroes death fits canon.
 
2021-10-28 4:45:06 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Thus, the Bene Gesserit derive their power not from magic but from deep self-control, awareness and understanding of human psychology.

... so that explains why he thinks it's "subtle", he apparently hasn't read it again since he was 14 and relies on the (dramatically ironic) self-assessments of the characters instead of immediately recognizing the historical reference and why it's plot relevant that those self assessments are false/in-universe propaganda.

Like, I've gotten on people's case for reading Dune as a book about colonialism only, but the Bene Gesserit maintaining their power through control of the education system, literally practicing eugenics, having a line about how "real people" have intellect and emotional self control that the subhuman masses lack, and being completely wrong about almost literally everything (including claiming magical powers that also turn out not to work as prophesied) is a pretty blunt reference, man. The holy book they use is even literally called the Catholic Bible, subtle this specific thing was not.

// Them not actually understanding some super basic human psychology is the root of their downfall as well, like it never occurs to them that nobles like to have power and married people with multiple children might like and trust each other sometimes. Those are the actual two thing that derail their attempt to seize more power and puts them on the new emperor's bad side for a while.


Orange Catholic Bible. And yeah, Paul is the result of a Bene Gesserit selective breeding program gone wrong; there's a lot of Nazi overtones in the various factions of the novels.
 
2021-10-28 5:54:01 PM  
Some things keep this movie from being great in my opinion. For instance, we hear the leader of the family tell his son that they are being set up by the emperor, that's why they are being given that planet. Then when the attack comes it catches them all by surprise. How the fark does that make sense? They don't have sentries, patrols, or any kind of personal protection in case of attack? Another thing that bothered me, the guy who betrayed them. It's because they have his wife? Really? Wouldn't anyone allowed that close to you and your family be someone beyond the most basic level of coercion? If that guy is married or has kids shouldn't they all be present and accounted for? And why has it taken this long for the Harks to use this tactic? If it's this easy to pull off shouldn't it have been done long ago? I bet the book lays it all out, why this all went down this way. But the movie doesn't bother, it just assumes everyone in the audience knows what's up. That's not great filmmaking.
 
2021-10-28 6:09:39 PM  
So why was the 1984 film a disaster? Because the director - yes, David Lynch - either didn't grasp the subtlety and richness or decided that audiences couldn't handle it.

Sure, Jan.  Lynch and Herbert just didn't understand Herbert's work.

Fark user imageView Full Size


It had nothing to do with the studios screwing with the production so much that Lynch forced them to give the director credit to Alan Smithee.
 
2021-10-28 6:16:35 PM  

Birnone: Then when the attack comes it catches them all by surprise. How the fark does that make sense?


The movie removes a lot of the complexity of the book.

In the book, Doctor Yueh has received imperial mental conditioning that is supposed to make it impossible for him to harm those he works for, or betray their trust.  He is the one person in their employ who is above suspicion when it comes to betraying the Atreides household.

Now, guess who kills the guards protecting the house shield generators and knocks out the shields so the house can be attacked?
 
2021-10-28 7:37:55 PM  

MarkTimeTire: Is it a stand alone movie or is part two necessary to complete the story?


It's like a movie about JFK's life that ended at the end of his military career would be a fine stand-alone movie, with the caveat that everybody knows that it's part of a larger story.  And then part 2 comes out about his political career, which also isn't the whole story, but sufficient in an of itself.
 
2021-10-29 1:31:22 AM  

That Reilly Monster: Gotta agree. I loved the books and have been cynical about how successful anyone could be in adapting even the first one. I was pleasantly surprised and I'm really looking forward to part 2.


It was pretty great.
 
2021-10-29 1:33:22 AM  

Birnone: Some things keep this movie from being great in my opinion. For instance, we hear the leader of the family tell his son that they are being set up by the emperor, that's why they are being given that planet. Then when the attack comes it catches them all by surprise. How the fark does that make sense? They don't have sentries, patrols, or any kind of personal protection in case of attack? Another thing that bothered me, the guy who betrayed them. It's because they have his wife? Really? Wouldn't anyone allowed that close to you and your family be someone beyond the most basic level of coercion? If that guy is married or has kids shouldn't they all be present and accounted for? And why has it taken this long for the Harks to use this tactic? If it's this easy to pull off shouldn't it have been done long ago? I bet the book lays it all out, why this all went down this way. But the movie doesn't bother, it just assumes everyone in the audience knows what's up. That's not great filmmaking.


Honestly, they did the best they could with 2.5 hours. They easily could have made the movie 5 hours long and still wouldn't include enough backstory to cover the first half of the book.

Dune is layers upon layers of meaning and nuance. It's as rich a universe as Lord of the Rings and it took Peter Jackson three movies to make that work (and even then the extended editions are where it's at).
 
2021-10-29 3:17:27 AM  

BullBearMS: Birnone: Then when the attack comes it catches them all by surprise. How the fark does that make sense?

The movie removes a lot of the complexity of the book.

In the book, Doctor Yueh has received imperial mental conditioning that is supposed to make it impossible for him to harm those he works for, or betray their trust.  He is the one person in their employ who is above suspicion when it comes to betraying the Atreides household.

Now, guess who kills the guards protecting the house shield generators and knocks out the shields so the house can be attacked?


But the movie shows he is trusted fully. Would the movie really be better if they had a throw-away line about how he had Imperial Conditioning?
 
2021-10-29 4:02:13 AM  

DerAppie: BullBearMS: Birnone: Then when the attack comes it catches them all by surprise. How the fark does that make sense?

The movie removes a lot of the complexity of the book.

In the book, Doctor Yueh has received imperial mental conditioning that is supposed to make it impossible for him to harm those he works for, or betray their trust.  He is the one person in their employ who is above suspicion when it comes to betraying the Atreides household.

Now, guess who kills the guards protecting the house shield generators and knocks out the shields so the house can be attacked?

But the movie shows he is trusted fully. Would the movie really be better if they had a throw-away line about how he had Imperial Conditioning?


Because everyone knows what Imperial Conditioning is
 
2021-10-29 5:14:13 AM  
My question about 'imperial conditioning' is how was it subverted? In the movie they take his wife hostage. Come on! The first thing I'd try if I needed to pressure someone is threaten one of their family members. So had this conditioning been previously proven to keep the doctors in line even if a close family member would die if they didn't cooperate? The reason I take issue with this is because that attack and the results of it are a pretty big deal in the movie. So the method used to stage that attack is something that needed to be clear and believable.
 
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