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(Slate)   "My husband gets paid parental leave at his job, but he's refusing to use it and it's pissing me off. Is there any way I can convince him to take advantage of a program that should be available to all but isn't?"   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Parenting, Parental leave, Maternity, Leave, whole bunch of different situations, 2-year-olds, good reasons, hands of professional child care providers  
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353 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 28 Oct 2021 at 5:17 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-28 5:05:02 AM  
Offer him butt stuff.
 
2021-10-28 5:28:54 AM  
My guess is if he is refusing free time of to help you with your kid, he thinks the kid isn't his.
 
2021-10-28 5:41:47 AM  
Taking care of Kids is woman's work. Why are you trying to emasculate him.

/sarc

Also, people that take long leaves often find they can and will be replaced by a cheaper younger model.
 
2021-10-28 5:56:10 AM  
These letters are never real, but the male female childcare agreement comes down to this:  women used to be expected to be 100% home carers, men were expected to be 100% financial providers.  It don't be like that no more.  What's up with that, Rocky?

Thank you for your time
 
2021-10-28 6:28:36 AM  
Maybe your kid's real father could step up.
 
2021-10-28 7:38:25 AM  

Farking Clown Shoes: Offer him butt stuff.


Well I'm not needed here.
 
2021-10-28 7:46:46 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: These letters are never real, but the male female childcare agreement comes down to this:  women used to be expected to be 100% home carers, men were expected to be 100% financial providers.  It don't be like that no more.  What's up with that, Rocky?

Thank you for your time


My ex once told me, very concerned, that he was brought up to believe that all housework and childcare is Woman's Work.

I responded that I would certainly give notice at my full-time job the next day, and should I quit immediately or give two weeks?

When he looked shocked, I told him that *I* was brought up to believe that men bring home the bacon, and did he need to start looking for a second job?

JFC, all I did was ask him to put the clothes from the washer into the dryer.
 
2021-10-28 7:47:26 AM  
Oh man, currently in the middle of paternity leave so getting a kick...

Hospital paid for a week, and I took 3 more for our sanity. We've had both sets of grandparents stay with us for a week a piece, still getting it together. The missus had a c section and recovery is not easy, she can't lift anything (or any little Kozlo). Also why wouldn't you take that time unless you just hate being with your family or have no consideration for your partner's sanity.
 
2021-10-28 7:59:09 AM  
When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.
 
2021-10-28 8:01:58 AM  
He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?
 
2021-10-28 8:04:37 AM  

tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.


I came back from paternity leave to a promotion and a 22% raise, so YMMV.
 
2021-10-28 8:11:15 AM  

Farking Clown Shoes: Offer him butt stuff.


I think you've got him pegged.
 
2021-10-28 8:12:22 AM  
There are not unreal fears of hampering one's career by using the benefit. All the more reason it should be universal.
 
2021-10-28 8:14:55 AM  

tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.


I liked the part where you're like: I don't want to fall behind at work and I don't care if my child doesn't hit any timely milestones, like eat solid foods, crawl, walk, or talk.

When men say things like "when (all) men say" and pretend to speak for every one of us, they shouldn't.
 
2021-10-28 8:15:39 AM  

pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?


It's not right, and the company will never admit it, but it's so.  It's even why a hell of a lot of regular vacation or PTO doesn't get taken.  Then they say that they're "shocked" and "will look into it, and take steps if necessary".
 
2021-10-28 8:32:01 AM  
Why do I get the feeling that she sincerely believed that having a kid would "save" their marriage?
 
2021-10-28 8:41:26 AM  
Wasn't this here yesterday?

tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.
I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.
If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.
Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.


It's partly social conditioning, but for a lot of  men, work is their life.  I mean it's really their life--their pastime, their reason for getting out of bed, their ego, their way of putting value on themselves.   It can be for women, but I think there is a vast difference between how we view "work."

I'd be willing to bet that men would never use parental leave the way women would--well, woman have a slightly better biological reason for needing it, but still--men aren't wired the same.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-28 8:44:01 AM  

Billy Liar: Then they say that they're "shocked" and "will look into it, and take steps if necessary".


But usually not until AFTER a high performing employee winds up dead or on long term disability due to a heart attack, mental health or substance abuse problem.

/Sadly I know (or knew) at least one guy in each category
 
2021-10-28 8:45:00 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.

I liked the part where you're like: I don't want to fall behind at work and I don't care if my child doesn't hit any timely milestones, like eat solid foods, crawl, walk, or talk.

When men say things like "when (all) men say" and pretend to speak for every one of us, they shouldn't.


I said men.
 
2021-10-28 8:48:25 AM  
*Adjust onion on belt*

Back in my day, a man had no parental leave - he had his vacation time, that he had to request to take off, and just two weeks of it at that. So when his wife gave birth, he'd take a couple days off, maybe a week, then a few days here and there over the next month or so.  And after six weeks? The mother had to go back to work, too.  Of course, people were tougher back then. We didn't have these fancy XBoxes and whatnot that you have today. No, if we were lucky we had a SNES, where you had to blow on the cartridges before you put them in half the time if you wanted them to work right. Wireless controllers? WIRELESS CONTROLLERS?!?  You kids these days have it easy!

So when I hear that you get 12 weeks off as a mother, or any PAID time off as a father, I shake my head and wonder where we went wrong. That kid should be ready to go to work in the coal mine by 12 weeks old, what with their small hands they can get into the really tight spaces, and they don't use up so much air as an adult.

I say that we need a little less coddling of this younger generation, and a few more wars to really toughen kids up.  What? No, I didn't fight in no wars. They saw me in my MC Hammer pants and thought I was a little light in the loafers, if you know what I mean, so they wouldn't let me join the Army. Ah, those were the days....
 
2021-10-28 8:53:33 AM  
Toxic Masculinity.
The Loyalty to the corporate paycheck over family.

Family is an accident scrapped under a rug. A nominal topic at work, like the weather.
The real prize is that pat on the head, the attaboy for a job well done, right?

You can take that to the grave.

they'll miss you at the office.
 
2021-10-28 8:53:41 AM  
No they won't
 
2021-10-28 8:59:28 AM  

eKonk: *Adjust onion on belt*

Back in my day, a man had no parental leave - he had his vacation time, that he had to request to take off, and just two weeks of it at that. So when his wife gave birth, he'd take a couple days off, maybe a week, then a few days here and there over the next month or so.  And after six weeks? The mother had to go back to work, too.  Of course, people were tougher back then. We didn't have these fancy XBoxes and whatnot that you have today. No, if we were lucky we had a SNES, where you had to blow on the cartridges before you put them in half the time if you wanted them to work right. Wireless controllers? WIRELESS CONTROLLERS?!?  You kids these days have it easy!

So when I hear that you get 12 weeks off as a mother, or any PAID time off as a father, I shake my head and wonder where we went wrong. That kid should be ready to go to work in the coal mine by 12 weeks old, what with their small hands they can get into the really tight spaces, and they don't use up so much air as an adult.

I say that we need a little less coddling of this younger generation, and a few more wars to really toughen kids up.  What? No, I didn't fight in no wars. They saw me in my MC Hammer pants and thought I was a little light in the loafers, if you know what I mean, so they wouldn't let me join the Army. Ah, those were the days....


You had to blow on SNES cartridges?
 
2021-10-28 9:03:26 AM  

Billy Liar: pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?

It's not right, and the company will never admit it, but it's so.  It's even why a hell of a lot of regular vacation or PTO doesn't get taken.  Then they say that they're "shocked" and "will look into it, and take steps if necessary".


This is less about the mindset of men and more about working for shiatty people who take advantage of those who won't stand up for themselves.
 
2021-10-28 9:14:40 AM  
Man, I wishpaternity leave had been available when my daughter was born.  I'd have taken it in a heartbeat

/she's 7 now
//I got to use all my vacation (a week) instead, yay me.
 
2021-10-28 9:38:50 AM  
I was lucky.  I used up 6 weeks of carefully banked PTO time when my daughter was born.  My boss didn't understand why I was taking so much time off and seemed kind of annoyed about it.  I got the feeling that me taking too much time off would affect any future potential promotions*.

It's gotten family friendlier since then and they offer paternity leave to new fathers.  Plus we have WFH capabilities now, so it's not as big of a deal.

*It didn't; my boss was just terrible at personnel management so I wouldn't have gotten promoted either way.
 
2021-10-28 10:09:58 AM  

tfresh: Nana's Vibrator: tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.

I liked the part where you're like: I don't want to fall behind at work and I don't care if my child doesn't hit any timely milestones, like eat solid foods, crawl, walk, or talk.

When men say things like "when (all) men say" and pretend to speak for every one of us, they shouldn't.

I said men.


You did say men.  You implied all men.  You don't speak for me, a man.  Especially when you say stupid sh*t like you did.  Thus my response.  What's your point?
 
2021-10-28 10:12:11 AM  

optikeye: Taking care of Kids is woman's work. Why are you trying to emasculate him.

/sarc

Also, people that take long leaves often find they can and will be replaced by a cheaper younger model.


Finding out you can be replaced happens at home, too.
 
2021-10-28 10:26:52 AM  

pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?


So? Even if that's true (and it often is) so what?

I had a realization early in married life when struggling to draw that line between work life and home life: I can find another job. I'll never find another mrs mcmnky. If taking time off to spend with my family is hurting my career, so what? Better that than hurting my family to spend time on my career.

And it's not necessarily so. Or maybe not as common as some suppose. I worked with someone for about 5 years who I think took maternity leave 3 times in that span. And it seemed each time she came back to a promotion. The time away certainly was not stalling her career.
 
2021-10-28 11:01:07 AM  

odinsposse: Billy Liar: pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?

It's not right, and the company will never admit it, but it's so.  It's even why a hell of a lot of regular vacation or PTO doesn't get taken.  Then they say that they're "shocked" and "will look into it, and take steps if necessary".

This is less about the mindset of men and more about working for shiatty people who take advantage of those who won't stand up for themselves.


Which circles right back to my original point. He's probably worried about it putting a target on his back. Standing up for himself doesn't put food on the table.
 
2021-10-28 11:36:06 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.

I liked the part where you're like: I don't want to fall behind at work and I don't care if my child doesn't hit any timely milestones, like eat solid foods, crawl, walk, or talk.

When men say things like "when (all) men say" and pretend to speak for every one of us, they shouldn't.


When people use a plural noun without a qualifier, 'a large enough percentage to be representative of the group of the whole' is usually assumed - not 'every single one without exception'.
 
2021-10-28 12:09:23 PM  

pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?


Koodz: I came back from paternity leave to a promotion and a 22% raise, so YMMV.


This highlights a really good point: it depends on the job, the company, the industry, and the boss.  Some jobs you'll be welcomed back no problem.  Some jobs you'll have paid leave and others will allow you to take all the time you want, but you aren't earning while you're out.  Some places are actively trying to replace you while you're out and others are avoiding it.

So when we talk about this, we need to bear in mind that we're talking about society as a whole and there are millions of anecdotal exceptions.  Overall men make more money when they become fathers and women make less when they become mothers.  Overall men either don't take, or don't use all of their paternity leave when it's offered.

Men are socially pressured to be providers for their families so companies don't even have to actively exploit that, it's built into American culture.  Employers discriminate in favor of fathers because they assume they're more stable and the mother is doing the active child rearing -in short, dad's chained to the desk.  They can offer paternity leave and know the fathers won't take it because Grandfathers will start asking dad if they aren't worried about being replaced and tell them how it "really works" when men take leave.
 
2021-10-28 12:16:10 PM  
The obvious answer is that the guy didn't want a kid in the first place and would rather be at work than spend time with the leaky meatloaf and the increasingly biatchy (and less hot) ball and chain.
 
2021-10-28 12:24:59 PM  

Enigmamf: Nana's Vibrator: tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.

I liked the part where you're like: I don't want to fall behind at work and I don't care if my child doesn't hit any timely milestones, like eat solid foods, crawl, walk, or talk.

When men say things like "when (all) men say" and pretend to speak for every one of us, they shouldn't.

When people use a plural noun without a qualifier, 'a large enough percentage to be representative of the group of the whole' is usually assumed - not 'every single one without exception'.


My real English teacher was also very small minded and sexist.  And a bigot but that doesn't apply here.
 
2021-10-28 12:44:58 PM  

mike_d85: pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?

Koodz: I came back from paternity leave to a promotion and a 22% raise, so YMMV.

This highlights a really good point: it depends on the job, the company, the industry, and the boss.  Some jobs you'll be welcomed back no problem.  Some jobs you'll have paid leave and others will allow you to take all the time you want, but you aren't earning while you're out.  Some places are actively trying to replace you while you're out and others are avoiding it.

So when we talk about this, we need to bear in mind that we're talking about society as a whole and there are millions of anecdotal exceptions.  Overall men make more money when they become fathers and women make less when they become mothers.  Overall men either don't take, or don't use all of their paternity leave when it's offered.

Men are socially pressured to be providers for their families so companies don't even have to actively exploit that, it's built into American culture.  Employers discriminate in favor of fathers because they assume they're more stable and the mother is doing the active child rearing -in short, dad's chained to the desk.  They can offer paternity leave and know the fathers won't take it because Grandfathers will start asking dad if they aren't worried about being replaced and tell them how it "really works" when men take leave.


Oh, sure. I'm not going to fark off and go back to grad school like the 23 year old kid down the hall now that I have to take care of my kid.

The only thing that would make me look more stable to these guys would be if I finally bought a house.
 
2021-10-28 1:19:18 PM  
article: 'I moved here from another country that has 12-plus months of leave, so this is all completely insane to me.'

She moved here and actually didn't know him well enough to marry him?   Or could be that he has kids from other relationships and he didn't do that for them?
 
2021-10-28 2:44:52 PM  

Cafe Threads: Nana's Vibrator: These letters are never real, but the male female childcare agreement comes down to this:  women used to be expected to be 100% home carers, men were expected to be 100% financial providers.  It don't be like that no more.  What's up with that, Rocky?

Thank you for your time

My ex once told me, very concerned, that he was brought up to believe that all housework and childcare is Woman's Work.

I responded that I would certainly give notice at my full-time job the next day, and should I quit immediately or give two weeks?

When he looked shocked, I told him that *I* was brought up to believe that men bring home the bacon, and did he need to start looking for a second job?

JFC, all I did was ask him to put the clothes from the washer into the dryer.


I believe that even with modern conveniences, running a household is a full time job with and of its self. Add kids and it's even more taxing. Now I do not believe the homemakers role needs gender assignment. I just believe a job should pay enough for a comfortable living for a family of four.

/I also believe in splitting housework.
//which is better than now, because my roommate doesn't do shiat.
///one day I'll find a woman who makes decent money and wants a house husband.
 
2021-10-28 2:48:45 PM  

tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.


So, I don't know about this specific situation, but generally you have a year to use it.

So you could take every Friday off or something.

There are ways to balance it, and I would bet an employer would rather have the employee in the office 80 percent of the time for a year instead of off for 6 weeks straight.
 
2021-10-28 2:53:00 PM  

tjsands1118: Cafe Threads: Nana's Vibrator: These letters are never real, but the male female childcare agreement comes down to this:  women used to be expected to be 100% home carers, men were expected to be 100% financial providers.  It don't be like that no more.  What's up with that, Rocky?

Thank you for your time

My ex once told me, very concerned, that he was brought up to believe that all housework and childcare is Woman's Work.

I responded that I would certainly give notice at my full-time job the next day, and should I quit immediately or give two weeks?

When he looked shocked, I told him that *I* was brought up to believe that men bring home the bacon, and did he need to start looking for a second job?

JFC, all I did was ask him to put the clothes from the washer into the dryer.

I believe that even with modern conveniences, running a household is a full time job with and of its self. Add kids and it's even more taxing. Now I do not believe the homemakers role needs gender assignment. I just believe a job should pay enough for a comfortable living for a family of four.

/I also believe in splitting housework.
//which is better than now, because my roommate doesn't do shiat.
///one day I'll find a woman who makes decent money and wants a house husband.


Running a household without kids is not a full time job.  That's just a bonkers thing to say.

I'm hoping I find a wife who will let me become the househusband when I retire at 50.
 
2021-10-28 3:01:18 PM  

Smackledorfer: tjsands1118: Cafe Threads: Nana's Vibrator: These letters are never real, but the male female childcare agreement comes down to this:  women used to be expected to be 100% home carers, men were expected to be 100% financial providers.  It don't be like that no more.  What's up with that, Rocky?

Thank you for your time

My ex once told me, very concerned, that he was brought up to believe that all housework and childcare is Woman's Work.

I responded that I would certainly give notice at my full-time job the next day, and should I quit immediately or give two weeks?

When he looked shocked, I told him that *I* was brought up to believe that men bring home the bacon, and did he need to start looking for a second job?

JFC, all I did was ask him to put the clothes from the washer into the dryer.

I believe that even with modern conveniences, running a household is a full time job with and of its self. Add kids and it's even more taxing. Now I do not believe the homemakers role needs gender assignment. I just believe a job should pay enough for a comfortable living for a family of four.

/I also believe in splitting housework.
//which is better than now, because my roommate doesn't do shiat.
///one day I'll find a woman who makes decent money and wants a house husband.

Running a household without kids is not a full time job.  That's just a bonkers thing to say.

I'm hoping I find a wife who will let me become the househusband when I retire at 50.


It's a system of balance:  do more work than you create
 
2021-10-28 3:45:19 PM  

zeroman987: tfresh: When men say they hate having to be at the office everyday... we lie.

I love my wife more than anyone else... and after 14 months of working and living together 24/7 pandemic style I was so ready to get back to the office.

If you have the kind of relationship where over saturation of each other isn't a problem then great. However for regular humans... we need space.

Plus there's the fear of falling behind at the job. Sure I get 12 weeks or whatever off but even though I'm welcomed back no questions asked, you're still going to be behind, you're going to lose all your momentum and it absolutely affects your career path.

So, I don't know about this specific situation, but generally you have a year to use it.

So you could take every Friday off or something.

There are ways to balance it, and I would bet an employer would rather have the employee in the office 80 percent of the time for a year instead of off for 6 weeks straight.


I have someone on my team who hasn't used most of his yet. He asked to do basically just that (take fridays off) for the rest of the year and then taking the last week of dec. off. He explained he didn't want to lose touch with the project. 

In reality he's a control freak who is crap at his job and always needs to be around to obfuscate when people take notice of his shiatey work.. so basically a republican although he's a huge Biden fan so the irony tastes nice and salty.
 
2021-10-28 4:02:41 PM  

pheelix: He's probably worried that taking parental leave now puts a target on his back at some future time when his employer has to lay off a bunch of people. Why keep him around when the guy in the next cubicle over is a "company man"?


I had a boss whose wife gave birth at 6am...he bragged that he made it to the office before lunch.
 
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