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(CBS Philadelphia)   Family gets case reopened ten years after police rule their daughter committed suicide by stabbing herself 20 times   (philadelphia.cbslocal.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, family of Ellen Greenberg, Death, Stabbing, Family, local family, Court, Last Friday, Mother  
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3250 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Oct 2021 at 12:50 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-27 12:24:09 PM  
She wasn't white.  Ok, it was still suicide. Maybe the first 19 times didn't take.
 
2021-10-27 12:52:09 PM  
Which cop did she piss off?
 
2021-10-27 12:52:35 PM  
My money is on a police officer's son.
 
2021-10-27 12:52:44 PM  
After eating shoots and falling down an elevator shaft?
 
2021-10-27 12:54:10 PM  
She leapt onto a bed of ice-knives which melted away.
 
2021-10-27 12:54:28 PM  
Cutting is an awful compulsion.
 
2021-10-27 12:55:32 PM  
Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner. I wouldn't trust a cop to that even if their favorite programs were Murder She Wrote, Quincy, and the Rockford Files.
 
2021-10-27 12:57:07 PM  

Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.


Isn't the coroner part of the police department?
 
2021-10-27 12:58:06 PM  
cdn.quotesgram.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 12:59:08 PM  
She visited Krusty's Hall of Knives?
 
2021-10-27 12:59:53 PM  
Did she know the Clintons???

/runs away laughing
 
2021-10-27 1:00:21 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


I mean, she looks crazy enough to stab herself 20 times...
 
2021-10-27 1:00:31 PM  
The fark kind of coroner makes that determination? Other than a shiatty one, obviously.
 
2021-10-27 1:03:04 PM  
"Dear diary, I tried to stab myself 19 times, but I think that I missed. I'm sure that the 20th will do it."
 
2021-10-27 1:03:11 PM  

rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?


No. The L.A. County Coroner's Office is independent of the LAPD.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:06:28 PM  
"Your little town seems to have more than its fair share of murders."

"No. We ain't got any more murders than anywhere else, I just don't bother trying to call 'em something else when they happen. Like when the Sheriff in Lumpkin Corners tried saying it was "suicide while of unsound mind" when a body was found in a chest freezer, chained shut from the outside and with multiple bullet holes in the freezer lid, just because the stiff was his wife's brother-in-law."
 
2021-10-27 1:07:39 PM  

rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?


Formally they are separate. But they are often closely associated in practice.
 
2021-10-27 1:09:00 PM  
Rasputina, minus the cellos?
 
2021-10-27 1:09:19 PM  

dywed88: rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?

Formally they are separate. But they are often closely associated in practice.


At least until they get good enough that they can stop practicing.
 
2021-10-27 1:10:37 PM  
Ramacharma unavailable for comment.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:10:42 PM  
I happened across another article and the person the family hired to review the findings said there was no bleeding from the wounds (or at least some of them) and that indicated there was no pulse, following up with "People without pulses do not stab themselves repeatedly"
 
2021-10-27 1:11:39 PM  
"But her parents say she had her life cut short"

I see her parents must be one of you Farkers, absolutely obsessed with puns
 
2021-10-27 1:13:47 PM  

rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?


Depends on the jurisdiction, this one is Philadelphia.
 
2021-10-27 1:14:38 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [Fark user image 850x566]

I mean, she looks crazy enough to stab herself 20 times...


With chompers like she has one would think she would just bite her wrists.
 
2021-10-27 1:15:48 PM  

MBooda: rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?

No. The L.A. County Coroner's Office is independent of the LAPD.
[Fark user image image 850x318]


Thanks, Quincy.  Wasn't sure if that changed or not.
 
2021-10-27 1:18:19 PM  

Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner. I wouldn't trust a cop to that even if their favorite programs were Murder She Wrote, Quincy, and the Rockford Files.


Although in Los Angeles, the coroner is an independent agency, it appears that in Philadelphia, the Medical Examiner is, in fact, part of the police department, or at least not as independent as one might wish.

From their website:


The Medical Examiner's Office (MEO) determines the cause and manner of death for sudden, unexpected, and unnatural deaths in Philadelphia. Our doctors, scientists, and technicians work with the Philadelphia Police Department to investigate these deaths.
Investigation Units
Seven units contribute specific information to individual cases.
Forensic Anthropology helps identify the deceased.
Forensic Investigation determines if a death comes under the jurisdiction of the Medical Examiner and investigates the circumstances surrounding the death.
Forensic Odontology evaluates bite marks and uses dental records to identify the deceased.
Forensic Technician coordinates the intake, release, and transportation of the deceased.
Histology prepares tissue slides for microscopic analysis.
Pathology determines both the cause and manner of death in every case that the Medical Examiner handles.
Toxicology Laboratory analyzes postmortem specimens for drug abuse, prescription drugs, and poisons.


So I do believe that in this case the cops might have had a say in the verdict.

Now, that said, I am not going to fall victim to the conspiracy-theory riddled b/s that Fark is becoming lately, and am instead going to say that perhaps the cops decided that the teacher killed herself with the first stab and some freak came along afterward and stabbed her post mortem and they couldn't be bothered to care much else about it because, you know, suicides who gives a shiat.

Sure, it doesn't make any sense either, but in my limited experience, cops and coroners will do almost anything to avoid having to investigate deaths if they can say "Yep, suicide" and go back to the donut shop.

Now, the other question is whether or not those 20 wounds were ACTUALLY "stab" wounds or if they were shallow enough that the coroner got away with calling them "hesitation cuts" which is how they get away with this kind of nonsense. Because if she was filleted as people are imagining even the worst coroner in the world wouldn't be able to say it was suicide; but if they were little pokes, then maybe.
 
2021-10-27 1:23:33 PM  
Based on her picture, I'm assuming her death was homeschooling related.
 
2021-10-27 1:34:12 PM  
Her fiance killed her. He is the one that said the door was barred from the inside.
 
2021-10-27 1:34:45 PM  
alec baldwin given a real knife instead of a prop?

/my money is on cop-related.
 
2021-10-27 1:36:26 PM  
Were these the detectives?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:38:33 PM  

indylaw: She leapt onto a bed of ice-knives which melted away.


Wonder if Jello knives would work.

I like Jello.

Peach Jello.
 
2021-10-27 1:42:33 PM  
perhaps she didn't have any defensive wounds

and all the strikes were places she could reach
 
2021-10-27 1:47:01 PM  

bighairyguy: My money is on a police officer's son.



I was thinking "mayor's son", myself... But... Yeah. Something like that.
 
2021-10-27 1:57:13 PM  

allthesametome: Her fiance killed her. He is the one that said the door was barred from the inside.


If anyone killed her, it was her fiancé. Other articles say that the police initially investigated this as a homicide, but the coroner ruled it a suicide which pretty much made it impossible to charge anyone.
 
2021-10-27 2:05:35 PM  

dywed88: I happened across another article and the person the family hired to review the findings said there was no bleeding from the wounds (or at least some of them) and that indicated there was no pulse, following up with "People without pulses do not stab themselves repeatedly"


Usualy people without pulses do not stab themselves even once.
 
2021-10-27 2:21:06 PM  
Was she dating a cop?
 
2021-10-27 2:23:45 PM  

CruiserTwelve: allthesametome: Her fiance killed her. He is the one that said the door was barred from the inside.

If anyone killed her, it was her fiancé. Other articles say that the police initially investigated this as a homicide, but the coroner ruled it a suicide which pretty much made it impossible to charge anyone.


If her fiancé gets eaten by alligators, that pretty much settles it.
 
2021-10-27 2:26:51 PM  

Dimensio: dywed88: I happened across another article and the person the family hired to review the findings said there was no bleeding from the wounds (or at least some of them) and that indicated there was no pulse, following up with "People without pulses do not stab themselves repeatedly"

Usualy people without pulses do not stab themselves even once.


Once I can see. If your pulse stops when you are holding a knife it wouldn't be too surprising if it ended up embedded in you somewhere.
 
2021-10-27 2:35:08 PM  
"That's some fine police work there, Lou"
 
2021-10-27 2:36:35 PM  

rjakobi: MBooda: rjakobi: Solty Dog: Do police have the power to determine cause of death? I thought that was up to the coroner or medical examiner.

Isn't the coroner part of the police department?

No. The L.A. County Coroner's Office is independent of the LAPD.
[Fark user image image 850x318]

Thanks, Quincy.  Wasn't sure if that changed or not.


LMFAO
 
2021-10-27 2:59:13 PM  
Fun story. Sister works in a morgue. Stabbing suicides are particularly gruesome. There are usually several wounds. There will be a few shallow wounds where the person starts to stab, then is in so much immediate pain they stop, calm down, and try it again. After a few of these shallow wounds they are usually in so much blinding pain that they can finally run the blade all the way in, if for no other reason then to stop their pain. 5-7 wounds is usual. That being said, 19 seems excessive and very sus. I believe we refer to that as a Russian Suicide.
 
2021-10-27 3:00:45 PM  

jtown: [cdn.quotesgram.com image 500x281]


MMmm, mid-'90s Janeane Garofalo.
 
2021-10-27 3:03:01 PM  
It reminds me of that Tori Amos song "Crucify Myself". I always wondered how the hell you would get that last nail in?
 
2021-10-27 4:45:11 PM  

CruiserTwelve: allthesametome: Her fiance killed her. He is the one that said the door was barred from the inside.

If anyone killed her, it was her fiancé. Other articles say that the police initially investigated this as a homicide, but the coroner ruled it a suicide which pretty much made it impossible to charge anyone.


That coroner needs to have their license revoked. No one stabs themselves to death 20 times to commit suicide. NO ONE. That is one of the stupidest farking things I've ever heard of.
 
2021-10-27 5:02:01 PM  
I met a guy who shot himself thirteen times in the head, but he lived, so he got charged with attempted suicide. The judge threw the case out however, when the D.A. failed to prove that the defendant aimed for any vital organs.
 
Izo [TotalFark]
2021-10-27 5:20:19 PM  

I Swear I'll Jump: I met a guy who shot himself thirteen times in the head, but he lived, so he got charged with attempted suicide. The judge threw the case out however, when the D.A. failed to prove that the defendant aimed for any vital organs.


shot himself with what? a BB gun?
 
2021-10-27 6:03:39 PM  
Chef at a local Chinese restaurant was found in a pool of his own blood. Cops theorized that he had committed chop suey cide.
 
2021-10-27 6:51:25 PM  

Wenchmaster: "Your little town seems to have more than its fair share of murders."

"No. We ain't got any more murders than anywhere else, I just don't bother trying to call 'em something else when they happen. Like when the Sheriff in Lumpkin Corners tried saying it was "suicide while of unsound mind" when a body was found in a chest freezer, chained shut from the outside and with multiple bullet holes in the freezer lid, just because the stiff was his wife's brother-in-law."


That sounds like that show Big Sky.
 
2021-10-27 6:57:37 PM  

MBooda: Ramacharma unavailable for comment.
[Fark user image image 172x270]


Nice and obscure Tintin reference.
 
2021-10-27 7:09:27 PM  

vilesithknight: Fun story. Sister works in a morgue. Stabbing suicides are particularly gruesome. There are usually several wounds. There will be a few shallow wounds where the person starts to stab, then is in so much immediate pain they stop, calm down, and try it again. After a few of these shallow wounds they are usually in so much blinding pain that they can finally run the blade all the way in, if for no other reason then to stop their pain. 5-7 wounds is usual. That being said, 19 seems excessive and very sus. I believe we refer to that as a Russian Suicide.


Thanks for the information. I always thought knife suicide would through a cut which less painful than stabbing.
It shows how determined they were about ending their lives.
It speaks volumes about how bad they thought their lives were when that same determination wasn't enough to overcome whatever made them want to kill themselves in the first place.
 
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