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(Slate)   Today's Slatesplanation: Dune fails because it never provides the upfront act of multifaceted subversion that would have prevented the dehumanization of its nonwhite characters steeped in Islamic aesthetics who never exist except as tropes   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Islam, Dune, Arrakis, Fremen, Dune universe, hallmark of Frank Herbert, Denis Villeneuve's Dune, Muslim  
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659 clicks; posted to Fandom » and Main » on 27 Oct 2021 at 10:20 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-27 9:46:34 AM  
It's done pretty well for a quite long time despited its failureness.
 
2021-10-27 10:18:26 AM  
Needs more Thufir Hawat.
 
2021-10-27 10:26:43 AM  
"Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"
 
2021-10-27 10:33:28 AM  

thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"


If you see Buddha on the road, kill him
 
2021-10-27 10:38:59 AM  

thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"


A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.
 
2021-10-27 10:41:38 AM  
Yes, it is absolutely a white savior story. Even more lampshades by the Bene Gesserits directly manipulating the base religion to interject clues and portents for when their "savior" arrives.

Jessica blatantly warns Paul to use it for his own safety.
 
2021-10-27 10:44:09 AM  
I posted on an earlier thread that I thought it was "just okay".  I think upon further reflection, I think it's better - it's a decent enjoyable film.  It's good looking and well-paced.  That's a problem with Dune which can be waaay over complicated and Villeneuve does a good job making it into a good watchable story (also breaking it up in 2 parts was smart).

However, I thought Lynch's Dune did some things better.  I agree Dune 1984 is a mess, but it seems more ambitious.  It captures more of the spirit of Dune than 2021 Dune.   The weird visions, the spiritual message, being in a world thousands of years into the future, seems to be tackled more in 1984 Dune.  Also, I thought Dune 1984 was grittier, dirtier and things felt more at risk.  Dune 2021 seemed too slick with the desert seeming sort of artificial and stylish (albeit very pretty).   Also, the characters were more interesting in Lynch's version - the Baron and Piter barely showed up in 2021 Dune, and Rabban seemed asleep.  How can you beat the leering, saliva dripping out of mouth floating fat man acted by Leonardo Cimino or Piter by Brad Dourif?   Also where was the guild navigators or the Emperor?  Hopefully more in Part 2.

Dune 2021 is a better overall movie but I dunno, I thought Lynch's Dune is superior on many aspects.
 
2021-10-27 10:49:22 AM  

houstondragon: Yes, it is absolutely a white savior story.


I don't know exactly what happens in the whole Dune series after the first book, but I've read gathered some hints and glimpses here and there.

Doesn't Paul turn into someone who is NOT a hero or savior in the end? If that is true, then it is actually not a "white savior story." If what I fear is correct, then the whole saga is bleak and depressing as a whole.
 
2021-10-27 10:50:01 AM  
Actually Dune goes beyond the "white savior" idea.  Paul is the Kwisatz Hadderach, the produce of breeding various blood lines to make the superior human.

I mean if you want to make comparisons to 20th century culture and history, he's basically the Nazi superman who saves the primitive natives.   Although maybe the Fremen are the master race.  I mean the later novels do involve a galactic jihad or a lebensraum war by and for the Fremen with Adolf Paul Mau'dib.
 
2021-10-27 10:54:38 AM  
I remember reading somewhere that Frank Herbert was more influenced by some of the first English language books about Zen Buddhism, to which he converted, than he was by the Koran, with which he had only a passing acquaintance. Frank Herbert was probably more influenced by The Seven Pillars of Wisdom which inspired the movie Lawrence of Arabia (1962) than he was with any other Islamic influences.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 10:58:53 AM  

bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.


Basically Paul got the drop on him, and he felt embarrassed about being bested by some offworlder kid. He couldn't challenge Paul directly bc Stilgar had placed Paul under his protection. So he took the indirect route of declaring Jessica was lying about being a reverend mother in order to institute the challenge.
 
2021-10-27 11:06:24 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
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Fark user imageView Full Size

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Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 11:12:48 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 11:16:37 AM  

houstondragon: Yes, it is absolutely a white savior story. Even more lampshades by the Bene Gesserits directly manipulating the base religion to interject clues and portents for when their "savior" arrives.

Jessica blatantly warns Paul to use it for his own safety.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 11:21:17 AM  
Counterpoint: f*ck off, Slate.

media4.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 11:26:07 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.

Basically Paul got the drop on him, and he felt embarrassed about being bested by some offworlder kid. He couldn't challenge Paul directly bc Stilgar had placed Paul under his protection. So he took the indirect route of declaring Jessica was lying about being a reverend mother in order to institute the challenge.


Also, Paul is not the leader. Jamis was just a guy. Stilgar is the leader.

/although there will be ramifications from Paul killing Jamis in part 2.
 
2021-10-27 11:29:54 AM  

bostonguy: houstondragon: Yes, it is absolutely a white savior story.

I don't know exactly what happens in the whole Dune series after the first book, but I've read gathered some hints and glimpses here and there.

Doesn't Paul turn into someone who is NOT a hero or savior in the end? If that is true, then it is actually not a "white savior story." If what I fear is correct, then the whole saga is bleak and depressing as a whole.


The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope. Which is why a lot of people only like the 1st book; they want to see the white savior propped up, not torn down.
 
2021-10-27 11:31:32 AM  

bostonguy: houstondragon: Yes, it is absolutely a white savior story.

I don't know exactly what happens in the whole Dune series after the first book, but I've read gathered some hints and glimpses here and there.

Doesn't Paul turn into someone who is NOT a hero or savior in the end? If that is true, then it is actually not a "white savior story." If what I fear is correct, then the whole saga is bleak and depressing as a whole.


As superior human Paul and his son knows all the history and as result (plus mentat training) can see/calculate/know future in which humanity is exterminated or enslaved because it's too centralized and mechanical. The only way to save humanity is to change it, which requires control over all humanity and someone that can live thousand of years
 
2021-10-27 11:31:47 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope. Which is why a lot of people only like the 1st book; they want to see the white savior propped up, not torn down.


Please don't say any more. I know only the first book. :)

(And now my goal is to read it whenever I have a flight somewhere again in the future.)
 
2021-10-27 11:35:37 AM  
 
2021-10-27 11:49:38 AM  

bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.


Don't worry, you're just going to bulldoze their houses anyway.
 
2021-10-27 11:57:47 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Copperbelly watersnake: bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.

Basically Paul got the drop on him, and he felt embarrassed about being bested by some offworlder kid. He couldn't challenge Paul directly bc Stilgar had placed Paul under his protection. So he took the indirect route of declaring Jessica was lying about being a reverend mother in order to institute the challenge.

Also, Paul is not the leader. Jamis was just a guy. Stilgar is the leader.

/although there will be ramifications from Paul killing Jamis in part 2.


Free wife and kids.
 
2021-10-27 11:59:58 AM  
Dear Slate Writer,

You don't know what you are talking about. You are basing all of your criticism on the desert cultures on Earth in the 19th/20th century.

Guess what, the Fremen aren't those people. 20,000 years have passed since 'now'. The humans that have lived on Arrakis have evolved to live there. They have their own history and backstory. All of the particulars to the indigenous people of the Middle East aren't analogous. The Fremen only share the adaptations to live in the desert with our current Middle Easterners. Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners. I know this might shock you, but Herbert was writing science fiction. He used cultural structures from Earth's Middle East because he thought that the people that 'evolved' into the Fremen would have developed in similar fashion. Both would occupy an area that was a crossroads for the 'known universe' and both have had a history of being conquered / occupied by outsiders. Everything else is made up to make a unique society to drive the story.
 
2021-10-27 12:05:12 PM  

madgonad: Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners.


TBF Fremen are descendants of ZenSunni Wanderers
 
2021-10-27 12:13:57 PM  
It must be exhausting to filter everything through your own personal political lens.
 
2021-10-27 12:17:26 PM  

bostonguy: Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope. Which is why a lot of people only like the 1st book; they want to see the white savior propped up, not torn down.

Please don't say any more. I know only the first book. :)

(And now my goal is to read it whenever I have a flight somewhere again in the future.)


There's a line in Dune Messiah you're going to have an interesting reaction to.

/you'll know it when you read it
 
2021-10-27 12:21:10 PM  

LewDux: madgonad: Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners.

TBF Fremen are descendants of ZenSunni Wanderers


No they aren't. The people of the middle east didn't migrate to Arrakis. The early workers and inhabitants of Arrakis evolved into the Fremen. Remember - the spice accelerate evolution. Those original people were of the basic beige that humanity breeds itself into over the next few hundred years.
 
2021-10-27 12:28:48 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope.


Also: I wonder, then, if the rest of that whole saga should be made into Dune: Part Two and Part Three.
 
2021-10-27 12:33:03 PM  

bostonguy: Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope.

Also: I wonder, then, if the rest of that whole saga should be made into Dune: Part Two and Part Three.


I doubt it.  The latter the novels, the weirder it gets and less normal movie material.

Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.  Oh boy.
 
2021-10-27 12:34:03 PM  

bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.


*spoilers from an old as but excellent book*

In the books it's because Jamis has a nasty brooding temper and was furious that Paul, who is a off world teen, kicked his ass and took his weapon. Jamis is essentially calling bullshiat that Paul and specifically Jessica are part of the prophecy. He does this know Jessica can't fight him and the person by far the most likely to fight for her is Paul thus Jamis can get vengeance for his earlier embarrassment. Obviously, that doesn't play out the Jamis planned and Paul kills.
 
2021-10-27 12:36:48 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.  Oh boy.


Yeah, only the first book follows a typical (white savior) storyline. The later books have far less action and more talking about prescience. It also happens over hundreds and thousands of years. The story of Paul Muadib, Attreides lasts two years.
 
2021-10-27 12:40:33 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.


Can Dune be my personal erotica book?
 
2021-10-27 12:45:21 PM  

bostonguy: SirEattonHogg: Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.

Can Dune be my personal erotica book?


Rule 34 my friend.  Rule 34.
 
2021-10-27 1:05:44 PM  

WhippingBoi: It must be exhausting to filter everything through your own personal political lens.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:10:04 PM  

bostonguy: thatguyoverthere70: "Hey guys, crazy thought: How about we not stab our Messiah?"

A question about that from someone who did not read the book and was a little confused by that scene.

POTENTIAL SPOILER (scroll down)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

What was the deal with the challenge to the death? The guy's reason was not clear. Here's how I understood it.
The strongest person leads the group. Anyone can challenge the leader in a fight to the death. Jessica got the upper hand on the leader and let him live, so was she then "the leader"?

Is that why the guy challenged her -- he wanted to be the leader and thought a woman would an easy kill? But then a woman could not fight in such duels, so Paul had to take her place? And since Paul killed the challenger, is he now the official "leader" going into Part Two?

Was not clear at all.


At least in the book, Stilgar tells Jessica that she did not become the leader of the group because she did not challenge him for leadership before besting him.

Jamis was upset that Paul had disarmed and knocked him out while Jessica was busy taking Stilgar.
 
2021-10-27 1:28:54 PM  

SirEattonHogg: bostonguy: Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope.

Also: I wonder, then, if the rest of that whole saga should be made into Dune: Part Two and Part Three.

I doubt it.  The latter the novels, the weirder it gets and less normal movie material.

Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.  Oh boy.


Dune Messiah is decent and I never really care for Children. You actually want to get into the later books because they farking rule. Heretics and Chapterhouse would make amazing blockbuster movies. The characters are decadently drawn superheroes (muthafarkin' Miles Teg, anyone? the best character of the entire series) and the action would be divine.

We'll never get there, unfortunately, because Children and God Emperor would be a slog for all but the most hardcore fans. There's no way the current movie series gets past them without the money pulling the plug.
 
2021-10-27 1:35:54 PM  

madgonad: LewDux: madgonad: Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners.

TBF Fremen are descendants of ZenSunni Wanderers

No they aren't. The people of the middle east didn't migrate to Arrakis. The early workers and inhabitants of Arrakis evolved into the Fremen. Remember - the spice accelerate evolution. Those original people were of the basic beige that humanity breeds itself into over the next few hundred years.


OK Herbert
 
2021-10-27 1:41:50 PM  
I really enjoyed this movie. And I say that as someone who tried several times to read the books and watch the full Lynch movie, only to find they each have their head up their own ass but in entirely different ways. It felt like Herbert thought he was writing the bible. And Dune the movie was the most David Lynch David Lynch joint to ever David a Lynch. Voiceover exposition dumps? Fine, I guess. Voiceover exposition dumps in got damned ASMR whispering? Fark you!

Anyway, the new movie was good. I wish they chose a better place to end it. There were several points in the last half hour that would have been much better organic stopping points than what they went with. The world building was fantastic though. I especially loved the Warhammer planet the imperial spec ops battalion was stationed on. It looked like they asked a Scandinavian death metal band to design an elite military unit, so there's Mongolian throat singing while dudes' throats are cut by the dozen to fill the blood pools (because of course there are blood pools), and everybody talks like they gargle cement and turpentine before doing a Finnish Tom Waits impression. Farking rad.

And the worms were awesome too.
 
2021-10-27 1:45:53 PM  

LewDux: madgonad: LewDux: madgonad: Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners.

TBF Fremen are descendants of ZenSunni Wanderers

No they aren't. The people of the middle east didn't migrate to Arrakis. The early workers and inhabitants of Arrakis evolved into the Fremen. Remember - the spice accelerate evolution. Those original people were of the basic beige that humanity breeds itself into over the next few hundred years.

OK Herbert


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:49:16 PM  

drewsclues: SirEattonHogg: bostonguy: Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope.

Also: I wonder, then, if the rest of that whole saga should be made into Dune: Part Two and Part Three.

I doubt it.  The latter the novels, the weirder it gets and less normal movie material.

Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.  Oh boy.

Dune Messiah is decent and I never really care for Children. You actually want to get into the later books because they farking rule. Heretics and Chapterhouse would make amazing blockbuster movies. The characters are decadently drawn superheroes (muthafarkin' Miles Teg, anyone? the best character of the entire series) and the action would be divine.

We'll never get there, unfortunately, because Children and God Emperor would be a slog for all but the most hardcore fans. There's no way the current movie series gets past them without the money pulling the plug.


Dude the last two are trash.   Space Jews = 
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 1:53:47 PM  

lilplatinum: drewsclues: SirEattonHogg: bostonguy: Tyrone Slothrop: The 1st 3 Dune books are a deconstruction of the "white savior" trope.

Also: I wonder, then, if the rest of that whole saga should be made into Dune: Part Two and Part Three.

I doubt it.  The latter the novels, the weirder it gets and less normal movie material.

Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.  Oh boy.

Dune Messiah is decent and I never really care for Children. You actually want to get into the later books because they farking rule. Heretics and Chapterhouse would make amazing blockbuster movies. The characters are decadently drawn superheroes (muthafarkin' Miles Teg, anyone? the best character of the entire series) and the action would be divine.

We'll never get there, unfortunately, because Children and God Emperor would be a slog for all but the most hardcore fans. There's no way the current movie series gets past them without the money pulling the plug.

Dude the last two are trash.   Space Jews = [upload.wikimedia.org image 317x266]


What if they are not Space Jews but evolved into Space Jews?
 
2021-10-27 2:13:22 PM  

Horizon: *spoilers from an old as but excellent book*

In the books it's because Jamis has a nasty brooding temper and was furious that Paul, who is a off world teen, kicked his ass and took his weapon. Jamis is essentially calling bullshiat that Paul and specifically Jessica are part of the prophecy. He does this know Jessica can't fight him and the person by far the most likely to fight for her is Paul thus Jamis can get vengeance for his earlier embarrassment. Obviously, that doesn't play out the Jamis planned and Paul kills.


Plus, Jamis's conniving indulgence of his ego also causes his wife Harah to be SOL without a husband. Paul is expected to take Harah into his household as a servant or as her new husband, since he left her SOL by killing her husband. Paul can't marry her for the same reason his father couldn't marry his mother, so Harah helps raise his sister and eventually marries Stilgar.

It's part of the whole theme of foresight and the resulting often unforeseen or terrible complications. See: Paul's deeply conflicted relationship with his own cult; all the Harkonnen bullshiat blowing up; Shaddam IV's screwing over of Atreides; Leto II's, just, his whole deal; Wensicia and her son; and so on. The Bene Gesserit are really myopic despite their lengthy plans and perspective, and so is Leto II.

Part of why I liked the book series is that seeing the future isn't all that helpful if you can't otherwise effect events or prepare, that conditions are very delicate and big changes can happen suddenly, and that beliefs and loyalties get distorted and changed by time and circumstance and can't necessarily be understood from the outside due to assumptions and context and errors in reasoning. It passes the test of 'why is this character right to feel and think the way they do?' because they actually have reasons from personal experience and imperfect understanding, like actual people.

But if you're expecting obvious heroes and stirring sentiment, you'll be disappointed and probably feel these books are nihilistic. None of these characters would be capable of stopping to smell the roses, they're usually stuck between self-interest and the greater machines of faction and philosophy that they're submerged in -- it is a feudal system, and they are inherently limiting and fundamentally fearful and suspicious, not a lot of self-actualization or concern for the individual. Since it follows the ruling family, those machines are always of supreme importance. So it can be grim at times, especially as the timeline grinds on.

I only ever read up to God Emperor, though, I could never get my hands on the later Herbert books and I didn't like what I was hearing about Bryan Herbert's stuff.
 
2021-10-27 2:17:22 PM  
they kind of have a point... 
example:
Dr. Liet Kynes

no issue with gender/race changes to the character...(Sharon Duncan-Brewster was awesome) the problem being that by change Kynes to a woman of color, the film then wanders squarely into the "Magical Negro" trope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical​_​Negro

the Magical Negro is a supporting stock character who comes to the aid of white protagonists in a film.[1] Magical Negro characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have long been a tradition in American fiction.[2]

doubtful this was intended.


/I thought the film was decent...but they made a lot of changes that are annoying... the Mentats in particular...no Emperor, No Navigators... inserting Modern Earth items into the film , not just the tropisms...but shiat like Bagpiper, or Bullfighting (yes I know Pauls grandad was killed wrestling a bull...but it wasn't Spanish bullfighting like it is in the new film, and frankly the constant shots of Leto Atreides staring at that farking bulls head were supposed to be symbolic, but really were more of a weak shorthand substituting for actual character development.

the whole thing with the shields... "the slow blade penetrates the shield"...then lots of fight scenes where fast blades also apparently penetrate the shields. its better than Lynchs film...but its not as epic as it could have been.
 
2021-10-27 2:21:12 PM  
that and pronouncing Harkonnen "HarkEnEN" and not "HAR-KO-NEN"...
they don't pronounce Atreides  "Ah-TRAY-ee-DEES"
 
2021-10-27 2:34:20 PM  

bostonguy: SirEattonHogg: Central character is a human turned into a giant worm.  Long philosophical discussions on the Golden Path.

Can Dune be my personal erotica book?


get ready for the sand trout, and get your kink on.
 
2021-10-27 2:45:04 PM  
Lots of FARK threads and comments have been disappearing as of late. Posted this in the other Dune thread and it got zapped.

There's a lot of reasons why Dune has problems, starting with Paul being very, very white, who has a 'Master' voice. 

You've got the exotic love interest. 

You've got the naive betraying Chinese doctor. 

The self-sacrificing Pacific Islander. 

The irrational angry Black killer. 

Like the comparison shots above detailing VIlleneuve's penchant for soft-lobbing things, the above tired tropes are still here and still being utilized. 

But hey, the 'Thopters were cool.
 
2021-10-27 2:48:35 PM  

Stratohead: they kind of have a point... 
example:
Dr. Liet Kynes

no issue with gender/race changes to the character...(Sharon Duncan-Brewster was awesome) the problem being that by change Kynes to a woman of color, the film then wanders squarely into the "Magical Negro" trope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_​Negro

the Magical Negro is a supporting stock character who comes to the aid of white protagonists in a film.[1] Magical Negro characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have long been a tradition in American fiction.[2]

doubtful this was intended.


/I thought the film was decent...but they made a lot of changes that are annoying... the Mentats in particular...no Emperor, No Navigators... inserting Modern Earth items into the film , not just the tropisms...but shiat like Bagpiper, or Bullfighting (yes I know Pauls grandad was killed wrestling a bull...but it wasn't Spanish bullfighting like it is in the new film, and frankly the constant shots of Leto Atreides staring at that farking bulls head were supposed to be symbolic, but really were more of a weak shorthand substituting for actual character development.

the whole thing with the shields... "the slow blade penetrates the shield"...then lots of fight scenes where fast blades also apparently penetrate the shields. its better than Lynchs film...but its not as epic as it could have been.


Should have gone with Minoan bullfighting
 
2021-10-27 2:54:10 PM  

Stratohead: that and pronouncing Harkonnen "HarkEnEN" and not "HAR-KO-NEN"...
they don't pronounce Atreides  "Ah-TRAY-ee-DEES"


The writer was on the set with Lynch. Did they mispronounce it with Herbert THERE or are they mispronouncing it now?
 
2021-10-27 4:06:13 PM  
The laziness of clickbait themed movie reviewers is getting more and more pathetic every time we see this stupid headline get repeated again and again.
 
2021-10-27 4:17:28 PM  

SpaceMonkey-66: LewDux: madgonad: LewDux: madgonad: Their history and motivation has nothing to do with the culture and motivations of modern-era Middle Easterners.

TBF Fremen are descendants of ZenSunni Wanderers

No they aren't. The people of the middle east didn't migrate to Arrakis. The early workers and inhabitants of Arrakis evolved into the Fremen. Remember - the spice accelerate evolution. Those original people were of the basic beige that humanity breeds itself into over the next few hundred years.

OK Herbert

[Fark user image image 425x239]


That whole episode could've just been the intro jingle followed by the words "we get it, Gene, you farking hate hippies" for the next 59 minutes.
 
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