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(YouTube)   How many ways from Sunday would the United States mess this up?   (youtube.com) divider line
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830 clicks; posted to STEM » on 26 Oct 2021 at 10:15 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-26 9:04:41 AM  
Um, that would be all of them, Bob.
 
2021-10-26 9:37:05 AM  
It would work great. As long as the truck has diesel backup, which runs constantly and supplies power.

But think about it: it would be a chance to spend a trillion dollars on highway infrastructure that ends up not being used. Congresscritters should be scrambling for it.
 
2021-10-26 9:47:01 AM  
Or, you know, we could use electric trains and only use trucks for the last mile.

Could we come up with a system where light freight cars are added to existing light rail.  It would have to be able to be to get stuff off and on very quickly.
 
2021-10-26 10:26:51 AM  

EvilEgg: Or, you know, we could use electric trains and only use trucks for the last mile.

Could we come up with a system where light freight cars are added to existing light rail.  It would have to be able to be to get stuff off and on very quickly.


The rail network hasn't kept up with population shifts since about 1950.
Rail carriers haven't built up signaling, switching, and IT to handle just-in-time inventory systems the way trucking companies and warehouses have.  Especially for perishables.
 
2021-10-26 10:28:42 AM  

beezeltown: It would work great. As long as the truck has diesel backup, which runs constantly and supplies power.


Busses on some routes in Seattle have run exclusively off of overhead electrical power lines for many decades. With the introduction of a downtown bus tunnel some 3 decades ago busses that serve the suburbs using diesel switch over to overhead electrical power before entering the tunnel. The latest incarnation seems to be fully electric busses with batteries to power them while out in the sticks and connections to overhead power lines to charge/operate when in more urban areas. So yes, hybrid scenarios are moving commuters around already and it wouldn't surprise me if delivery vans for UPS and Amazon eventually start doing something similar.
 
2021-10-26 10:31:50 AM  
Just trying to imagine if this would work in the UK. Short answer: it wouldn't. It would resign every single artic to the inside lane, single file, for the duration of the journey. Might work with the natives, but the thousands of EU drivers who pop over daily aren't known for their patience. Those overhead cables look like they're designed to be driven under from a higher feed pole, and then you stay there. No swapping to the middle lane and then trying to cut back in. Remember, everyone else on the road is an idiot, so expect them to do stupid things
 
2021-10-26 10:36:09 AM  
Yes.
 
2021-10-26 10:42:07 AM  

fragMasterFlash: beezeltown: It would work great. As long as the truck has diesel backup, which runs constantly and supplies power.

Busses on some routes in Seattle have run exclusively off of overhead electrical power lines for many decades. With the introduction of a downtown bus tunnel some 3 decades ago busses that serve the suburbs using diesel switch over to overhead electrical power before entering the tunnel. The latest incarnation seems to be fully electric busses with batteries to power them while out in the sticks and connections to overhead power lines to charge/operate when in more urban areas. So yes, hybrid scenarios are moving commuters around already and it wouldn't surprise me if delivery vans for UPS and Amazon eventually start doing something similar.


There were hybrid systems in Europe back in the 50s.  It's nothing new.

The problem with the overhead lines is weather, uneven roadbeds, overhead clearance for bridges, maintenance, etc.  You can manage that for busses in a dense urban area.  And you can manage that for dedicated rail beds.  You might be able to make it fly on one lane of a heavily-used interstate like I-95, I-75, I-35, I-70 and I-20 east of the Mississippi, I-5 through the Central Valley, etc.

But I can't see that it's an efficient use of capital to try to build overhead power lines for every 45mph suburban feeder road in the US.  Germany's geography and demography are fundamentally different from ours.
 
2021-10-26 10:44:11 AM  

fragMasterFlash: beezeltown: It would work great. As long as the truck has diesel backup, which runs constantly and supplies power.

Busses on some routes in Seattle have run exclusively off of overhead electrical power lines for many decades. With the introduction of a downtown bus tunnel some 3 decades ago busses that serve the suburbs using diesel switch over to overhead electrical power before entering the tunnel. The latest incarnation seems to be fully electric busses with batteries to power them while out in the sticks and connections to overhead power lines to charge/operate when in more urban areas. So yes, hybrid scenarios are moving commuters around already and it wouldn't surprise me if delivery vans for UPS and Amazon eventually start doing something similar.


Sigh. What could have been. Central Indiana had the Interurban electric rail from 1897 to 1941 until GM killed it. Some of the tracks still run through my city.
 
2021-10-26 10:58:48 AM  
So...could you design your own electric car to steal power with its own vane or antennae or whatever it's called?
 
2021-10-26 11:11:03 AM  

Stantz: Just trying to imagine if this would work in the UK. Short answer: it wouldn't. It would resign every single artic to the inside lane, single file, for the duration of the journey. Might work with the natives, but the thousands of EU drivers who pop over daily aren't known for their patience. Those overhead cables look like they're designed to be driven under from a higher feed pole, and then you stay there. No swapping to the middle lane and then trying to cut back in. Remember, everyone else on the road is an idiot, so expect them to do stupid things


From what I understand It's a supplementary charging system not an exclusive power source.
 
2021-10-26 11:14:49 AM  

EvilEgg: Or, you know, we could use electric trains and only use trucks for the last mile.

Could we come up with a system where light freight cars are added to existing light rail.  It would have to be able to be to get stuff off and on very quickly.


Not that long ago, intramodal transport was a big deal. The biggest result of that was the container, which would go from ship to truck to rail and back again. And then it petered out in just about every other application.

This week, I sent a package across Japan, and it took about 12 hours. It gets you to thinking that with all of those empty bullet train cars these days, maybe it should be faster, but it is just too hard to do with all of the sorting and routing. I am amazed that they still do things with trucks and highways out of preference, but they do. There seems to be plenty of unused rail capacity in Japan these days.

I suspect that regulations just about everywhere these days take a dim view of mixing passengers and freight. That would explain a lot. But airlines do it... to some degree. So....??
 
2021-10-26 11:16:14 AM  

Sabreace22: Stantz: Just trying to imagine if this would work in the UK. Short answer: it wouldn't. It would resign every single artic to the inside lane, single file, for the duration of the journey. Might work with the natives, but the thousands of EU drivers who pop over daily aren't known for their patience. Those overhead cables look like they're designed to be driven under from a higher feed pole, and then you stay there. No swapping to the middle lane and then trying to cut back in. Remember, everyone else on the road is an idiot, so expect them to do stupid things

From what I understand It's a supplementary charging system not an exclusive power source.


Half-wrong "The idea is to use a power supply, kind of like in the case of trains or trams, to drive on the highway using electricity, and then to switch to battery power or internal combustion engine for the final miles. That's the theory. The major obstacle is the cost of €2 million per km (in both directions) - according to a report from Sweden (see video below) - and further costs of maintenance of the new infrastructure. Another thing is that it does not look too attractive."

However I imagine the trucks would be able to disengage to pass, change lanes , etc for an exit.
 
2021-10-26 11:31:24 AM  
We just need to use micro-nuclear reactors on buses, trucks, trains, and cargo vessels. That will free up the power grid for industry AND we don't need to build a bunch of expensive infrastructure.

/s
//Whether electric trains or trucks we need to figure out the land based logistical infrastructure quickly
///Cargo ships burning bunker fuel/natural gas really need to be tackled too...
////obligatory STOP CONSUMING post
 
2021-10-26 11:33:21 AM  

Metaluna Mutant: So...could you design your own electric car to steal power with its own vane or antennae or whatever it's called?


millionaireplayboy.comView Full Size

Something like this?
 
2021-10-26 11:36:47 AM  
Subby have you met our good friend 11'6"
 
2021-10-26 12:18:25 PM  

beezeltown: It would work great. As long as the truck has diesel backup, which runs constantly and supplies power.

But think about it: it would be a chance to spend a trillion dollars on highway infrastructure that ends up not being used. Congresscritters should be scrambling for it.


If the only net benefit is that it keeps all trucks in the right lane, I am all for spending trillions.
 
2021-10-26 12:24:30 PM  
 
2021-10-26 12:25:22 PM  

Stantz: Just trying to imagine if this would work in the UK. Short answer: it wouldn't. It would resign every single artic to the inside lane, single file, for the duration of the journey. Might work with the natives, but the thousands of EU drivers who pop over daily aren't known for their patience. Those overhead cables look like they're designed to be driven under from a higher feed pole, and then you stay there. No swapping to the middle lane and then trying to cut back in. Remember, everyone else on the road is an idiot, so expect them to do stupid things


The UK is building a trial section. As the video in TFA says overtaking is easy. You just change lanes and your truck switches to battery or diesel and the pantograph lowers automatically. Overtake, then pull back in and raise the panto again.

Or even build electrification over two lanes if the demand is there.
 
2021-10-26 12:34:44 PM  

Stantz: Just trying to imagine if this would work in the UK. Short answer: it wouldn't. It would resign every single artic to the inside lane, single file, for the duration of the journey. Might work with the natives, but the thousands of EU drivers who pop over daily aren't known for their patience. Those overhead cables look like they're designed to be driven under from a higher feed pole, and then you stay there. No swapping to the middle lane and then trying to cut back in. Remember, everyone else on the road is an idiot, so expect them to do stupid things


Your concern was addressed at 1:10 in the video. Basically the truck can switch lanes if needed, the pantograph automatically disconnects, and either the batteries or the engine take over (depending on vehicle design).
 
2021-10-26 12:56:39 PM  
been on this tip fro day one for electric cars.

Do you understand how much energy is wasted, moving a pile of longer haul batteries around, in the fooking city 80+% of the time?

The vast majority of electric cars, should be for in city only use, running directly off the main,s and not eating up fuel to move batteries around the city.
With the VAST MAJORITY of personal cars only having enough battery to run about 80-100 miles max.
And so a lot a lot less weight, translating to much improve fuel economy.


Oh look, because we are not literally burning fuel in our tanks, the fook you forgot fuel economy still matters.
Stupid narrow minded assholes.
 
2021-10-26 3:55:46 PM  
San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
img.sfist.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-26 7:36:29 PM  

skybird659: San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
[img.sfist.com image 640x360]


There's quite a few cities and towns in the UK that have trams, powered by overhead electric but running on tracks that share the road with cars.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size


But there are also guided busses, diesel powered busses that drive on the road as normal but then drive onto dedicated tracks where the driver takes his hands off the wheel the the bus is guided by the track.

The Cambridgeshire Guided Busway
Youtube 10UY3WC4nDY
 
2021-10-26 9:54:24 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: skybird659: San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
[img.sfist.com image 640x360]

There's quite a few cities and towns in the UK that have trams, powered by overhead electric but running on tracks that share the road with cars.

[Fark user image 850x578]

[Fark user image 850x566]

But there are also guided busses, diesel powered busses that drive on the road as normal but then drive onto dedicated tracks where the driver takes his hands off the wheel the the bus is guided by the track.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/10UY3WC4​nDY]


Remarkable how very similar in design they all are across the decades, across the seas. For once, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' prevailed!
 
2021-10-27 1:35:19 AM  

skybird659: San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
[img.sfist.com image 640x360]


Even Los Angeles had them, way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century. They disappeared in 1963, along with the few remaining Pacific Electric rail lines.

lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-27 3:29:52 AM  

cyberspacedout: skybird659: San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
[img.sfist.com image 640x360]

Even Los Angeles had them, way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century. They disappeared in 1963, along with the few remaining Pacific Electric rail lines.

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x412]


They called them the 'red cars'. My mom grew up in L.A. and told me about riding in them. She and her mom also rode them to watch baseball games from the Pacific League teams waaaay back when the Dodgers and Giants were still in NY. They first started running in about 1907. L.A.recently started a nostalgic short 'Red Car' line for tourists out of San Pedro.
 
2021-10-27 11:26:21 AM  

skybird659: cyberspacedout: skybird659: San Francisco introduced electric overhead powered buses in 1935 and they still have them today.
[img.sfist.com image 640x360]

Even Los Angeles had them, way back in the dark ages of the mid 20th century. They disappeared in 1963, along with the few remaining Pacific Electric rail lines.

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x412]

They called them the 'red cars'. My mom grew up in L.A. and told me about riding in them. She and her mom also rode them to watch baseball games from the Pacific League teams waaaay back when the Dodgers and Giants were still in NY. They first started running in about 1907. L.A.recently started a nostalgic short 'Red Car' line for tourists out of San Pedro.


Unfortunately, the one in San Pedro is long gone already. There was a road construction project that began in 2015 that required removal of some of the tracks just above 6th St, and now there are plans to develop over more of the right of way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfr​o​nt_Red_Car?wprov=sfla1

https://www.randomlengthsnews.com/arc​h​ives/2021/03/04/proposal-would-cut-red​-car-line/32283?doing_wp_cron=16178603​10.0284590721130371093750&v=7516fd43ad​aa
 
2021-10-27 1:03:04 PM  
Awe! Too bad! I've been living on the Central Coast the last few decades and hadn't realized they were gone. I just go down to visit family. I hope they do return, I have grand nephews done there just getting old enough to enjoy a ride on their great-great-(and great-great-great) grandma's old ride! They may just have to come up here and we'll drive to Santa Cruz for the Boardwalk train ride. Thanks for the update! The history of the past circles around to (maybe) become the wave of the future. There truly is nothing new under the sun'!
 
2021-10-27 3:55:47 PM  

skybird659: Awe! Too bad! I've been living on the Central Coast the last few decades and hadn't realized they were gone. I just go down to visit family. I hope they do return, I have grand nephews done there just getting old enough to enjoy a ride on their great-great-(and great-great-great) grandma's old ride! They may just have to come up here and we'll drive to Santa Cruz for the Boardwalk train ride. Thanks for the update! The history of the past circles around to (maybe) become the wave of the future. There truly is nothing new under the sun'!


Well, it's not the same, but a few of the current Metro light rail lines use the old PE rail corridors.

There are plans to build a few more in the coming decade - though at the rate their current two light rail projects have been delayed, I'm wondering how much will actually get done.
 
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