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(MSN)   Get some popcorn. This one is gonna be good. We have legal weed in one state verses civil asset forfeiture in another   (msn.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Federal Bureau of Investigation, United States, U.S. state, Federal government of the United States, United States Department of Justice, marijuana sales, Law, Supreme Court of the United States  
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8523 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 25 Oct 2021 at 6:20 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-25 5:53:30 PM  
This will actually be a very interesting case to watch. Especially because there doesn't appear to be a specific traffic violation warranting any action by the police, at least according to TFA.
 
2021-10-25 6:04:37 PM  

Somacandra: This will actually be a very interesting case to watch. Especially because there doesn't appear to be a specific traffic violation warranting any action by the police, at least according to TFA.


According to TFA, "Robison first pulled the van over on May 17 for an unspecified traffic violation, according to the affidavit. "

The driver told the deputy that she was a Denver-based employee of Empyreal Logistics and had been tasked with transporting cash from marijuana dispensaries in Kansas City, Mo., across Kansas to a credit union in Colorado.

And this is why you never, EVER volunteer information to the f*cking pigs.
 
2021-10-25 6:13:40 PM  
Hmmmmm
Cash is ultimately property of the Federal government...
Can any state seize it at all?
That dumb question aside this could get interesting.
 
2021-10-25 6:23:22 PM  
Pigs will win. Guaranteed.
 
2021-10-25 6:26:09 PM  

mcreadyblue: Pigs will win. Guaranteed.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-25 6:26:54 PM  

mcreadyblue: Pigs will win. Guaranteed.


Dreadlocks Scott Decision.
 
2021-10-25 6:29:00 PM  
Thanks, Biden.
 
2021-10-25 6:30:51 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Somacandra: This will actually be a very interesting case to watch. Especially because there doesn't appear to be a specific traffic violation warranting any action by the police, at least according to TFA.

According to TFA, "Robison first pulled the van over on May 17 for an unspecified traffic violation, according to the affidavit. "

The driver told the deputy that she was a Denver-based employee of Empyreal Logistics and had been tasked with transporting cash from marijuana dispensaries in Kansas City, Mo., across Kansas to a credit union in Colorado.

And this is why you never, EVER volunteer information to the f*cking pigs.


In which case they take the money anyway, because that's a suspicious pile of cash you won't explain, so obviously it must be illegal shiat.  Welcome to asset forfeiture, where the cops win with any answer you make or none at all, don't matter
 
2021-10-25 6:31:55 PM  
I know people in both states that have smoked way more weed than I have, and I live in weed-growing central in CA.
 
2021-10-25 6:32:03 PM  
This is going to be a watershed case. It does not matter how many states have decriminalized marijuana, it is still illegal per Federal law. The fact that the Federal Government is not actively busting these businesses does not make them legal. As such it will be very interesting to see the court rulings on this one. And, Yes, there will be rulings because this one is going to get appealed until the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case or they agree to hear it.
 
2021-10-25 6:32:41 PM  
Good thing Kansas and Missouri have never had any disagreements over state sovereignty issues.
 
2021-10-25 6:33:06 PM  
Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome
 
2021-10-25 6:34:50 PM  

Mock26: This is going to be a watershed case. It does not matter how many states have decriminalized marijuana, it is still illegal per Federal law. The fact that the Federal Government is not actively busting these businesses does not make them legal. As such it will be very interesting to see the court rulings on this one. And, Yes, there will be rulings because this one is going to get appealed until the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case or they agree to hear it.


But there was no weed in the car.  Only money.  Money is not illegal to possess.

I foresee the courts punting on an improper traffic stop
 
2021-10-25 6:35:19 PM  

mcreadyblue: Pigs will win. Guaranteed.


I can see the other side winning, and the court ordering the money returned

/the money wouldn't be returned
//https://www.charlotteobserver.com/n​ews​/local/article250629189.html
 
2021-10-25 6:35:26 PM  
This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.
 
2021-10-25 6:35:50 PM  
I thought it was pretty farking clear that you don't cross state lines with either drugs or proceeds from selling drugs - irrespective of the legality where the transactions happened?

Like, dudes, crossing state lines with a minor to go fark them in another state with a lesser age of consent is still very much federally illegal.

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-25 6:39:40 PM  
Verses?

Singing or poetry?
 
2021-10-25 6:40:13 PM  

Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.


Lawful Neutral much?
 
2021-10-25 6:41:25 PM  
 
2021-10-25 6:42:07 PM  

leeksfromchichis: Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.

Lawful Neutral much?


Bordering on Lawful Evil.  See my links above.
 
2021-10-25 6:42:38 PM  

Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.


Is cash illegal in Kansas? If not, where do you draw the line? Suppose you sell a whole bunch of weed in Colorado and Missouri, get rich, save your money, then decide later in life to move to Kansas. Can Kansas just disgorge your wealth at any time because it considers it ill-gotten?
 
2021-10-25 6:43:15 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: I thought it was pretty farking clear that you don't cross state lines with either drugs or proceeds from selling drugs - irrespective of the legality where the transactions happened?

Like, dudes, crossing state lines with a minor to go fark them in another state with a lesser age of consent is still very much federally illegal.

[i.ytimg.com image 850x478]


I agree the whole situation would have been easily avoided by having an in-state bank handle the proceeds.

On the other hand, how far could this logic be taken. Since as noted, it is state rather than federal law enforcement acting here. If Gilead succeeds in making abortions illegal, could they seize funds "suspected" of being associated with a clinic in another state that were travelling through?
 
2021-10-25 6:45:51 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Benevolent Misanthrope: Somacandra: This will actually be a very interesting case to watch. Especially because there doesn't appear to be a specific traffic violation warranting any action by the police, at least according to TFA.

According to TFA, "Robison first pulled the van over on May 17 for an unspecified traffic violation, according to the affidavit. "

The driver told the deputy that she was a Denver-based employee of Empyreal Logistics and had been tasked with transporting cash from marijuana dispensaries in Kansas City, Mo., across Kansas to a credit union in Colorado.

And this is why you never, EVER volunteer information to the f*cking pigs.

In which case they take the money anyway, because that's a suspicious pile of cash you won't explain, so obviously it must be illegal shiat.  Welcome to asset forfeiture, where the cops win with any answer you make or none at all, don't matter


The driver said they were picking up cash, then the cops monitored them picking up cash, then the cops pulled them over for, uh, reasons. The driver didn't have any cash to steal the first time.
 
2021-10-25 6:46:02 PM  

Geotpf: leeksfromchichis: Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.

Lawful Neutral much?

Bordering on Lawful Evil.  See my links above.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

No, you see my Links.
 
2021-10-25 6:46:21 PM  

leeksfromchichis: Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome


That's literally what this is, isn't it? Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!
 
2021-10-25 6:47:10 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: leeksfromchichis: Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome

That's literally what this is, isn't it? Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!


It's legal if you're THE LAW.
 
2021-10-25 6:47:14 PM  

Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.


Difficulty:  Many banks (and all major banks) refuse to do business with weed sellers. Having to transport the money to a credit union that is willing to do business with you is a necessary step to running the business, at least until the banking laws are changed to allow them to work with legal weed.

Until then legal weed shops are going to be cash-only targets for crime, as are the people who work there.
 
2021-10-25 6:47:28 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: leeksfromchichis: Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome

That's literally what this is, isn't it? Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!


Civil forfeiture is just armed robbery.
 
2021-10-25 6:48:17 PM  
Even if the people whose money it is wind up getting the cash back, it's going to be a long, involved process requiring the help of some expensive lawyers.  I think the lesson here is that you should wait to open your weed store until the stuff becomes legal federally.
 
2021-10-25 6:49:07 PM  

Mock26: This is going to be a watershed case. It does not matter how many states have decriminalized marijuana, it is still illegal per Federal law. The fact that the Federal Government is not actively busting these businesses does not make them legal. As such it will be very interesting to see the court rulings on this one. And, Yes, there will be rulings because this one is going to get appealed until the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case or they agree to hear it.


Yeah...I was thinking this may be a back door into legalization, but...

The law is clear that money from MJ can be seized( I do not agree with this, but that's how it is ).  The company states that they move MJ money, which is why they were targeted by the police.  They could get off on a technicality of illegal traffic stop, but that probably doesn't get the money back.  The courts will have to (a) punt with some stupid logic that doesn't return the money, (b) side with the law, or (c) curtail civil asset forfeiture.

I find that (a) is the most likely outcome and MJ money will no longer be driven through fundy states, but will pass through private airports in places where it's legal, which will (funnily enough) make it easier to smuggle other shiat.

If congress weren't so busy trying to collect bribes they could fix this issue really quickly, but they're not there to actually help.
 
2021-10-25 6:49:08 PM  

tirob: Even if the people whose money it is wind up getting the cash back, it's going to be a long, involved process requiring the help of some expensive lawyers.  I think the lesson here is that you should wait to open your weed store until the stuff becomes legal federally.


When, in the year 2147?
 
2021-10-25 6:49:16 PM  

Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.


The feds would probably have a decent case for the assets belonging to them please as the money crossed state lines.
 
2021-10-25 6:49:26 PM  

iheartscotch: Uchiha_Cycliste: leeksfromchichis: Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome

That's literally what this is, isn't it? Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!

It's legal if you're THE LAW.


They sound like professional soldiers turned bandits because there is no war on... actually I don't see the difference.
 
2021-10-25 6:49:46 PM  

tirob: Even if the people whose money it is wind up getting the cash back, it's going to be a long, involved process requiring the help of some expensive lawyers.  I think the lesson here is that you should wait to open your weed store until the stuff becomes legal federally.


Hell, I'm convinced that getting anything back from a forfeiture case involves getting a news station on your side more than any legal wranglings.
 
2021-10-25 6:51:24 PM  

Hobbess: I agree the whole situation would have been easily avoided by having an in-state bank handle the proceeds.

On the other hand, how far could this logic be taken. Since as noted, it is state rather than federal law enforcement acting here. If Gilead succeeds in making abortions illegal, could they seize funds "suspected" of being associated with a clinic in another state that were travelling through?


Maryland tickets out of state drivers for breaking their laws on tint, front license plates, and height regulations. California issues summons for speeding that would be legal in Texas.

It's not unprecedented to charge someone with a crime that is legal in their home state. Likewise, transporting proceeds of drug sales or drugs themselves can be a valid state crime that is applicable to anyone traversing within the state borders.

It sucks, but Uncle Joey doesn't seem too concerned about re-scheduling weed for some strange unknown reason.
 
2021-10-25 6:52:05 PM  
All cops are thieves.
 
2021-10-25 6:53:01 PM  
If the judge acts under all current law that money is gone.  The U.S. Attorney's Office filed the petition not the Kansas cops.  They could have filed it in Missouri if they wanted to but it's just cleaner in Kansas.

References to "Kansas cops taking their money" is window dressing.  The Federal government is.
 
2021-10-25 6:53:07 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: iheartscotch: Uchiha_Cycliste: leeksfromchichis: Highway robbery. punish the police officer, return the cash,  legalize drugs, end legal robbery.

You're welcome

That's literally what this is, isn't it? Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!

It's legal if you're THE LAW.

They sound like professional soldiers turned bandits because there is no war on... actually I don't see the difference.


This sort of thievery WAS pretty common for nobles and out-of-work soldiers in the Middle Ages.

/ That's also why bows were so popular amongst the common people. You can shoot rabbits AND armored asshats
 
2021-10-25 6:53:33 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Hobbess: I agree the whole situation would have been easily avoided by having an in-state bank handle the proceeds.

On the other hand, how far could this logic be taken. Since as noted, it is state rather than federal law enforcement acting here. If Gilead succeeds in making abortions illegal, could they seize funds "suspected" of being associated with a clinic in another state that were travelling through?

Maryland tickets out of state drivers for breaking their laws on tint, front license plates, and height regulations. California issues summons for speeding that would be legal in Texas.

It's not unprecedented to charge someone with a crime that is legal in their home state. Likewise, transporting proceeds of drug sales or drugs themselves can be a valid state crime that is applicable to anyone traversing within the state borders.

It sucks, but Uncle Joey doesn't seem too concerned about re-scheduling weed for some strange unknown reason.


The weed doesn't matter.  It's the money they're after.  If the money is money, the cops charge it with a crime and then steal it and keep it for themselves.

No drugs need to be involved.
 
2021-10-25 6:56:21 PM  

Geotpf: This strikes me as a pretty open and shut case under current case law.  Weed is illegal in Kansas and under Federal law.  The driver was stopped in Kansas.

Moral of the story: Don't take cash proceeds from your mary jane business out of state in to a state where's it's illegal.


The dispensaries essentially hired an armored truck company to transport the cash. Not sure what the terms of the contract are... but that company seem to have 'lost' the dispensary's money. That should be on them, not the clients paying to have the cash transported.
 
2021-10-25 6:57:01 PM  

cretinbob: Hmmmmm
Cash is ultimately property of the Federal government...
Can any state seize it at all?
That dumb question aside this could get interesting.


Username checks out. Hey, cretin, cash is not "the property of the federal government". You clearly have been reading Ayn Rand too much to pay attention to the real world.
 
2021-10-25 6:58:37 PM  
One day after the first traffic stop, Robison again pulled over the Empyreal van along the interstate in Dickinson County. The affidavit didn't specify the reason for stopping the vehicle.

Um... Because the cops wanted to steal that money.
 
2021-10-25 6:58:39 PM  
"A Pennsylvania company is asking a federal court to return about $166,000 in proceeds from marijuana sales in Missouri that was seized by law enforcement in Kansas as the cash was on its way to Colorado."

If that's not a bar exam fact pattern I don't know what is.
 
2021-10-25 6:58:46 PM  
So, get two lawyers and a fully incorporated interstate delivery company. Lawyer at one end fills document bins with cash, applies a seal, and ships them to the lawyer at the other end. Driver only knows they're hired to move document boxes for law firms. No roadside stop would be able to summon probable cause, and you can train the driver to stand up to any shenanigans.
 
2021-10-25 6:58:48 PM  

bhcompy: Mock26: This is going to be a watershed case. It does not matter how many states have decriminalized marijuana, it is still illegal per Federal law. The fact that the Federal Government is not actively busting these businesses does not make them legal. As such it will be very interesting to see the court rulings on this one. And, Yes, there will be rulings because this one is going to get appealed until the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case or they agree to hear it.

But there was no weed in the car.  Only money.  Money is not illegal to possess.

I foresee the courts punting on an improper traffic stop


Nope. The money is the proceeds of illegal activity.  It's gone

Idiots should have deposited it in a bank and done a wire transfer
 
2021-10-25 6:59:53 PM  

Hobbess: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I thought it was pretty farking clear that you don't cross state lines with either drugs or proceeds from selling drugs - irrespective of the legality where the transactions happened?

Like, dudes, crossing state lines with a minor to go fark them in another state with a lesser age of consent is still very much federally illegal.

[i.ytimg.com image 850x478]

I agree the whole situation would have been easily avoided by having an in-state bank handle the proceeds.

On the other hand, how far could this logic be taken. Since as noted, it is state rather than federal law enforcement acting here. If Gilead succeeds in making abortions illegal, could they seize funds "suspected" of being associated with a clinic in another state that were travelling through?


Is this some new filter word now for Texas governor Abbott?

But yeah on the subject of the arrest, how does it make sense to send someone to Kansas City from presumably Denver to pick up money instead of depositing it at your nearest bank? That's just asking to be highjacked or pulled over by the police.
 
2021-10-25 7:00:05 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: If the judge acts under all current law that money is gone.  The U.S. Attorney's Office filed the petition not the Kansas cops.  They could have filed it in Missouri if they wanted to but it's just cleaner in Kansas.

References to "Kansas cops taking their money" is window dressing.  The Federal government is.


You have to realize that in the legal states, marijuana is huge business making a lot of money and those people have a direct interest in this case and can bankroll good lawyers who can get this handled.  If a court is forced to say that MJ money is illegal money, they're then saying that MJ business is illegal, and federal court decisions like that won't sit well with the huge amounts of money backing MJ.
 
2021-10-25 7:02:21 PM  
Hey I see a business opportunity by armored trucks incorporate as a legitimate security armored truck business. Go around to all the businesses in Missouri don't need the cash moved to Colorado. I'm pretty sure that would make it immune to civil asset forfeiture
 
2021-10-25 7:03:47 PM  

Pats_Cloth_Coat: bhcompy: Mock26: This is going to be a watershed case. It does not matter how many states have decriminalized marijuana, it is still illegal per Federal law. The fact that the Federal Government is not actively busting these businesses does not make them legal. As such it will be very interesting to see the court rulings on this one. And, Yes, there will be rulings because this one is going to get appealed until the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case or they agree to hear it.

But there was no weed in the car.  Only money.  Money is not illegal to possess.

I foresee the courts punting on an improper traffic stop

Nope. The money is the proceeds of illegal activity.  It's gone

Idiots should have deposited it in a bank and done a wire transfer


You're going with "Kansas has the right to prosecute people who do things that would be illegal, had they been done in Kansas"?

Mississippi just passed a law criminalizing abortion after 15 weeks. Suppose a doctor from California performs an abortion at 16 weeks, and later visits some relatives in the South. He drives through Mississippi, and has all his cash seized while there. I guess you're cool with that.

/can't wait to prosecute store owners who sell liquor on Sunday, then visit my county with blue laws
 
2021-10-25 7:04:07 PM  
Charter a plane
 
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