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(Mercury News)   Feds to dying California veterans: You can use our aid-in-dying law, but first we're going to jerk you around   (mercurynews.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, United States, Napa County, California, Veteran, World War II, Napa, California, Veterans Home of California, residents of the state, veterans homes  
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1305 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Oct 2021 at 1:35 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-25 11:22:55 AM  
What will California do next?
 
2021-10-25 11:34:33 AM  
Some people pay good money for that.
 
2021-10-25 11:43:02 AM  
That seems like a really easy fix... I hate when something like that happens to people at that stage in life. Yeah, maybe we fix it in months or years, but what about the people getting f*cked over right now?

Someone with the Governor or Speaker's ears should really do something for those people. I mean, it's literally the absolute least you can do for them.
 
2021-10-25 12:12:25 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Yeah, maybe we fix it in months or years, but what about the people getting f*cked over right now?


First time in America?
 
2021-10-25 12:27:30 PM  

Cafe Threads: NewportBarGuy: Yeah, maybe we fix it in months or years, but what about the people getting f*cked over right now?

First time in America?


WHAT A COUNTRY!
 
2021-10-25 1:37:52 PM  
That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

So it's more a federal problem rather than the state.  Also why does this only apply to veterans and not the rest of the population.
 
2021-10-25 1:39:27 PM  
Subby is the jerk, as is the author of TFA.

Federal law conflicts with California law and federal law is supreme. Way to try and make out California as the problem.
 
2021-10-25 1:41:49 PM  
Ok I answered my own question.

"The aid-in-dying ban was enacted within weeks of passage of the state's aid-in-dying law. The law - inspired after East Bay resident Brittany Maynard, 29, had to move to Oregon to end her life and prevent suffering from brain cancer - was created specifically to allow California residents who are terminally ill to obtain drugs to hasten their death, and to die at home."

Reading the whole article?  This is Fark!
 
2021-10-25 1:47:32 PM  

Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

So it's more a federal problem rather than the state.  Also why does this only apply to veterans and not the rest of the population.


It's about vets living I'm VA rehab/care centers.

So this most definitely has nothing to do with Cali.

This is like complaining that VA docs won't prescribe weed.

The VA and VA facilities have to follow federal law, not local.
 
2021-10-25 1:51:42 PM  

Kuta: Subby is the jerk, as is the author of TFA.

Federal law conflicts with California law and federal law is supreme. Way to try and make out California as the problem.


^^^^
 
2021-10-25 1:52:37 PM  
Happy ending?
 
2021-10-25 1:53:09 PM  
Life-ending medication is also off-limits to the other 2,000 aging and disabled veterans and spouses at the state's facilities in Fresno, Barstow, Redding and other cities. That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

Sorry guys but the federal government is controlled by weird evangelicals no matter which party is holding seats. They recommend you just don't get vaccinated.
 
2021-10-25 1:53:33 PM  
Veterans are used to that

Form a line alphabetically by height
Turn over your paperwork.
Turn over your paperwork.  No.  You weren't supposed to turn over your paperwork to that person!  You were supposed to turn it over tome.  Now, go get the backup copies of your paperwork.
We're not doing intakes today.  Come back tomorrow\
Yesterday was intake day.  Today is scheduled appointments only day
 
2021-10-25 1:54:03 PM  
Inaccurate headline. This thread will likely be purged so save a copy as you like
 
2021-10-25 1:55:43 PM  
California's veterans forced to leave homes to seek aid in dying

You know, they could just drive slow on the interstates and someone will eventually shoot them.
 
2021-10-25 1:57:10 PM  
Not to sound like a dick, but this is America. Just get a gun and blow your brains out. What. Are they gonna arrest your corpse?

Hmm... That did come off as a dick statement.   But hey, no one want's to talk about retirement plan b.
 
2021-10-25 2:00:07 PM  

Subtonic: Not to sound like a dick, but this is America. Just get a gun and blow your brains out. What. Are they gonna arrest your corpse?

Hmm... That did come off as a dick statement.   But hey, no one want's to talk about retirement plan b.


To me it's the only reason to own a gun.
 
2021-10-25 2:09:39 PM  

Kuta: Subby is the jerk, as is the author of TFA.

Federal law conflicts with California law and federal law is supreme. Way to try and make out California as the problem.


First time?
 
2021-10-25 2:10:00 PM  

Subtonic: Just get a gun and blow your brains out.


Tanks of helium to fill party balloons are like $50 at Wal-mart and I'm sure they could steal a garbage bag from the housekeeper's cart.
 
2021-10-25 2:12:27 PM  

Subtonic: Not to sound like a dick, but this is America. Just get a gun and blow your brains out. What. Are they gonna arrest your corpse?

Hmm... That did come off as a dick statement.   But hey, no one want's to talk about retirement plan b.


Half of the 35,000 gun deaths in America is attributable to suicide.

So, your comments, flippant as they might sound, are still pretty accurate.
 
2021-10-25 2:22:15 PM  

RasIanI: Subtonic: Not to sound like a dick, but this is America. Just get a gun and blow your brains out. What. Are they gonna arrest your corpse?

Hmm... That did come off as a dick statement.   But hey, no one want's to talk about retirement plan b.

Half of the 35,000 gun deaths in America is attributable to suicide.

So, your comments, flippant as they might sound, are still pretty accurate.


I applied for a coroner's assistant position a while ago. They showed me a crime scene photo and asked me to explain it. It was an obvious gun shot suicide and was a little messed up how easy it was to recognize. So. Huh. Turned it down.

I'm happier making maps.
 
2021-10-25 2:25:51 PM  
hate to say it but this isnt CA's fault.  they are allowing something that is against federal law - just not actively prosecuted.
but any organization that actively depends on massive federal grants every year for its basic EXISTANCE isn't going to violate federal law.  if they did it would only take one busybody making a phone call and they'd be shut down forever.  which would also be required, by other federal laws.

the situation sucks but this whole article is trying REALLY hard to blame the wrong people.  call your congresspeople/senators and get the federal laws changed.  as soon as you do im sure this place will fall right in step with CA state practices.
 
2021-10-25 2:28:31 PM  
Well they edited the headlines but have trouble over how the possessive pronoun "our" works.
 
2021-10-25 2:29:48 PM  

oopsboom: hate to say it but this isnt CA's fault.  they are allowing something that is against federal law - just not actively prosecuted.
but any organization that actively depends on massive federal grants every year for its basic EXISTANCE isn't going to violate federal law.  if they did it would only take one busybody making a phone call and they'd be shut down forever.  which would also be required, by other federal laws.

the situation sucks but this whole article is trying REALLY hard to blame the wrong people.  call your congresspeople/senators and get the federal laws changed.  as soon as you do im sure this place will fall right in step with CA state practices.


Your statement on the nature of the problem is correct. Your observations on the responsibility of the problem valid. Your conclusions as to the issues solutions? Laughable.

We get federally recognized rights to die shortly after corporate personhood stops being a thing. Both sides will find reasons to reject it, even if you could get the Republicans to the table.

You get a funny.
 
2021-10-25 2:33:14 PM  

Edopode: oopsboom: hate to say it but this isnt CA's fault.  they are allowing something that is against federal law - just not actively prosecuted.
but any organization that actively depends on massive federal grants every year for its basic EXISTANCE isn't going to violate federal law.  if they did it would only take one busybody making a phone call and they'd be shut down forever.  which would also be required, by other federal laws.

the situation sucks but this whole article is trying REALLY hard to blame the wrong people.  call your congresspeople/senators and get the federal laws changed.  as soon as you do im sure this place will fall right in step with CA state practices.

Your statement on the nature of the problem is correct. Your observations on the responsibility of the problem valid. Your conclusions as to the issues solutions? Laughable.

We get federally recognized rights to die shortly after corporate personhood stops being a thing. Both sides will find reasons to reject it, even if you could get the Republicans to the table.

You get a funny.


well i don't think im allowed to suggest that people snipe republican congresspeople from rooftops.  even if thats a lot more likely to get medical rights fixed.
 
2021-10-25 2:34:19 PM  

Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

So it's more a federal problem rather than the state.  Also why does this only apply to veterans and not the rest of the population.


For the same reason, veterans can't get medical pot from the VA.
 
2021-10-25 2:42:33 PM  

oopsboom: Edopode: oopsboom: hate to say it but this isnt CA's fault.  they are allowing something that is against federal law - just not actively prosecuted.
but any organization that actively depends on massive federal grants every year for its basic EXISTANCE isn't going to violate federal law.  if they did it would only take one busybody making a phone call and they'd be shut down forever.  which would also be required, by other federal laws.

the situation sucks but this whole article is trying REALLY hard to blame the wrong people.  call your congresspeople/senators and get the federal laws changed.  as soon as you do im sure this place will fall right in step with CA state practices.

Your statement on the nature of the problem is correct. Your observations on the responsibility of the problem valid. Your conclusions as to the issues solutions? Laughable.

We get federally recognized rights to die shortly after corporate personhood stops being a thing. Both sides will find reasons to reject it, even if you could get the Republicans to the table.

You get a funny.

well i don't think im allowed to suggest that people snipe republican congresspeople from rooftops.  even if thats a lot more likely to get medical rights fixed.


Now now. Republicans (old school) were actually pretty easy to change the mind of. Just make enough of them go through something for once and they'd come around. So they don't need to be shot. Just catastrophically paralyzed and or horrible cancer and burns.

But unfortunately the human condition is such that even then that would only get so many. The rest of them (and in fairness many to most democrats) are so terrified of mortality nobody else is allowed to die either. It really is one of those bullshiat things that transcends politics, and they'll justify it so many ways.

Being called selfish and not thinking straight because you just want to die after barely surviving something that terminates any appreciable quality of life is the norm, and... woefully disappointing.

That said, yes, the Republicans are the ones who wouldn't even entertain the notion and would wrap up the reasons in bibles and Jesus or some such bullshiat. Democratic debate might go forever but at least would get the ball rolling and could slowly come around in a decade or two.
 
2021-10-25 3:01:43 PM  

Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.


Okay but the fed could just not do anything about it. It's not like they automatically have to yank the funding. Apparently adults are in charge of the government again, discretion and nuance could be provided.
 
2021-10-25 3:07:20 PM  

Karma Chameleon: Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

Okay but the fed could just not do anything about it. It's not like they automatically have to yank the funding. Apparently adults are in charge of the government again, discretion and nuance could be provided.


Hell of a gamble you're willing to make on how much real authority any given people have in the bureaucracy made expressly to take that sort large scale determination on a whim away from people.

Just gotta say.
 
2021-10-25 4:04:33 PM  

Edopode: Karma Chameleon: Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

Okay but the fed could just not do anything about it. It's not like they automatically have to yank the funding. Apparently adults are in charge of the government again, discretion and nuance could be provided.

Hell of a gamble you're willing to make on how much real authority any given people have in the bureaucracy made expressly to take that sort large scale determination on a whim away from people.

Just gotta say.


They're not making a gamble--they're pointing out, and correctly, that the federal government can basically fix this by just not enforcing this stupid law, which is what they already do with pot laws.

They won't choose this option, but it's a choice they're making.
 
2021-10-25 4:25:56 PM  

austerity101: They're not making a gamble--they're pointing out, and correctly, that the federal government can basically fix this by just not enforcing this stupid law, which is what they already do with pot laws.

They won't choose this option, but it's a choice they're making.


The federal pot laws are a great example why that's not the clean solution it's wanted to be.

Because the feds can come down on the industry at their leisure it's absolutely a gamble. And people lose it not infrequently. In the semi literally aspect of how the money from the industry can be construed as proceeds from an illegal activity and banking institutions refuse to invite the risk of money laundering charges.

Are there attempts even now to alleviate that risk too? Yeah, last I heard there's supposed to be provisions to those ends in the current big bill nobody will shut up about. Is that the only face of risk in the industry? Ha! fark no.

The dea are still a constant hassle and keep changing rules. Making it hard for those following the rules to keep up.

It (both the pot bullshiat, and this current concern) could be solved overnight by changing the law, which isn't happening. But neither are solved without gambling on everyone cooperating in full good faith. And if you think the entirety of the government down to the last partisan bureaucrat that holds sway over any given issue will do that...

Well then how do you manage to operate your electronic device enough to log in and post without eating it?
 
2021-10-25 4:31:47 PM  

Edopode: austerity101: They're not making a gamble--they're pointing out, and correctly, that the federal government can basically fix this by just not enforcing this stupid law, which is what they already do with pot laws.

They won't choose this option, but it's a choice they're making.

The federal pot laws are a great example why that's not the clean solution it's wanted to be.

Because the feds can come down on the industry at their leisure it's absolutely a gamble. And people lose it not infrequently. In the semi literally aspect of how the money from the industry can be construed as proceeds from an illegal activity and banking institutions refuse to invite the risk of money laundering charges.

Are there attempts even now to alleviate that risk too? Yeah, last I heard there's supposed to be provisions to those ends in the current big bill nobody will shut up about. Is that the only face of risk in the industry? Ha! fark no.

The dea are still a constant hassle and keep changing rules. Making it hard for those following the rules to keep up.

It (both the pot bullshiat, and this current concern) could be solved overnight by changing the law, which isn't happening. But neither are solved without gambling on everyone cooperating in full good faith. And if you think the entirety of the government down to the last partisan bureaucrat that holds sway over any given issue will do that...

Well then how do you manage to operate your electronic device enough to log in and post without eating it?


First off, check yourself and stow the sh*tty attitude.

Second off, we are all fully aware that the feds ignoring laws isn't a perfect solution, and we're also fully aware that it's a temporary, stop-gap solution. We are all in agreement that the federal laws need to change, but until that happens, and it won't be soon, we need other solutions so people aren't suffering unnecessarily.

Were my words small enough for you to understand, or do you still wanna be sh*tty?
 
2021-10-25 4:43:13 PM  
Same problem with pot: despite the fact that pot can help with pain, Vets cannot even discuss it with VA medical care teams. That will change once Federal Law catches up with the States and with society/culture. Like everything, it takes time. The problem, again, are the GQP.
 
2021-10-25 5:53:10 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: Same problem with pot: despite the fact that pot can help with pain, Vets cannot even discuss it with VA medical care teams. That will change once Federal Law catches up with the States and with society/culture. Like everything, it takes time. The problem, again, are the GQP.


I'd say moderates also are a big problem. They have to be pulled reluctantly into the future too. They just fight it less than the 'gqp'. But otherwise, yeah. You get it.

austerity101: First off, check yourself and stow the sh*tty attitude.

Second off, we are all fully aware that the feds ignoring laws isn't a perfect solution, and we're also fully aware that it's a temporary, stop-gap solution. We are all in agreement that the federal laws need to change, but until that happens, and it won't be soon, we need other solutions so people aren't suffering unnecessarily.

Were my words small enough for you to understand, or do you still wanna be sh*tty?


So clearly someone helps you with logging in and posting then. Got it. But what isn't clear to me is how you can be so cavalier with the security of people on the fringes and are perfectly willing to dump added misery pretending it's hope on their lives.It would be nice if the land was filled with rational actors who compromise in good faith. We do not have this system, and you seem disinclined to recognize that. So keep pretending the big bad government is some single person sitting at it's desk with a switch under glass that flips 'evil/good' who lords it over you like it's even an option. The very notion of the right to die under even the most grievous of circumstances only gets about two thirds of people to agree until they face it themselves. If you don't think that last third wouldn't rush in to do their absolute level best to ruin people at half the chance on top of it on a technicality... Well seriously, you've made it clear you have some sort of cognitive lapse.But for everyone else, it's not as simple, and it's consequences would be impactful and arbitrarily applied.
 
2021-10-25 8:47:18 PM  
"We just want to make sure you are totally devoid of money before we let you pull the plug, you'll be fine."
 
2021-10-26 2:22:32 AM  

Fart_Machine: That's because California's End of Life Option Act conflicts with federal law - so the state's veterans agency bans it, fearing the loss of millions of dollars in federal funding.

So it's more a federal problem rather than the state.  Also why does this only apply to veterans and not the rest of the population.


came here to say this. Federal law does not recognize any right to actively cause your own death through medically assisted suicide. The federal right to die act covers topics like palliative care for terminal illness, hospice, and right to refuse or withdraw from resuscitative or prolonging care, such as no ventilator or no feeding tube orders.

States with right to die acts that cover medically assisted suicide are in a federal legal gray area - technically the feds would be well within their legal rights for civil and criminal remedies against medical professionals providing such care. And I'm shocked "pro life" conservatives haven't gone this route sooner a la Terri schiavo*

*see Jahai McMath
 
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