Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Sophocles)   Can you find morality and humanity in video games, or is it ok just to slaughter everything in sight?   (chrisssims.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Game, Good and evil, old-guard D&D creators, D&D, interesting characters, shallow takes, outdated way, failure of imagination  
•       •       •

823 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 24 Oct 2021 at 7:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



107 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-10-24 4:11:30 PM  
Yes.

All playstyles are valid
 
2021-10-24 4:15:12 PM  
If you don't like my driving, stay off the sidewalk.
 
2021-10-24 4:24:02 PM  
I play Fallout, so...
 
2021-10-24 4:41:58 PM  
Most likely, yes.

I got Call of Duty II running on a Windows 10 machine early in the Pandemic   I recently somehow got into the bunker on top of Hill 400 and have been stuck there for days. I have to set a charge in the bunker but I have no cover from the charge because I have to go outside the bunker that is crawling with Germans.

It's like my life in miniature but not really.
 
2021-10-24 5:14:56 PM  
Video games are a hard one.  If the game hardcodes an NPC to be a ravaging crazy, there is very little the player can do.  Some NPCs are more nuanced and variable, but the psycho deathmongers are just a simple choice.  And the distinction often comes down to the limits of the medium.  It would be unworkable to individually model every NPC in even a modest-sized game.  You just don't have the resources to make the game that complex, or the hardware to run the resulting monstrosity.  So, you can have meaningful and varied interactions with the named NPCs of say Fallout, but the random raiders are just bullet-sponges.

P&P RPGs are a different story.  Even if you aren't going to stat out every NPC, treating race as destiny is not necessary.  If you can treat dwarves as having meaningful personalities and motivations within their culture - and I've yet to see a game where dwarves are railroaded into cookie-cutter clones - then there is no reason orcs have to all be hardwired murder-psychos, except for Sweetie-Pie Joe the Special Snowflake Orc Ranger With A Heart of Gold, Two Scimitars, and a Figurine of Magical Power, Chrysoprase Woolly Rhino.  Just as you can trot out Stereotypical Dwarf when you just need a squat piece of furniture, you can pull out Stereotypical Orc when you need a quick beatdown.  But Evil societies are nowhere stable enough to not implode within the week (note, Fantasy Evil, not human shiathead evil).  If elves can be basically okay, if a little fascist, then orcs can be uncivilized and brutal without their DNA sequence literally being EVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL.  You can easily do "This farker is being evil and needs to be stopped" without it devolving into "this farker's entire species are hardwired murderbots".

But in video games, you're at the mercy of time, money, and processing power.
 
2021-10-24 5:34:42 PM  
Back in the day we had a custom doom level of my job. There was nothing more relaxing after a hard day at work then going home and killing things at work.

Some people  thught that odd, but clearly they never worked retail.
 
2021-10-24 5:48:54 PM  
No mercy!
Queen to h4. Checkmate!
 
2021-10-24 5:49:35 PM  

cretinbob: I play Fallout, so...


PEW. PEW never changes.  it just gets more disappointing with every new version
 
2021-10-24 5:58:48 PM  
Okay, serious answer.

Yes. It does depend on the game, obviously. Undertale is a pretty good example of not needing to kill.
 
2021-10-24 6:00:51 PM  
They have their moments. For instance, when Hans rides off on the mammoths at the end of Syberia.
 
2021-10-24 6:09:00 PM  
Subby obviously never played this game:

edge1.pokerlistings.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 6:11:22 PM  
I generally don't play outright evil characters.
 
2021-10-24 6:13:19 PM  

Mentat: I generally don't play outright evil characters.


Mind staples were necessary, there was a war on
 
2021-10-24 6:16:54 PM  
I have no problem killing hundreds of people in Assassin's Creed, but I'm not crazy about killing wolves. Is that weird?
 
2021-10-24 6:22:18 PM  
Sounds like the author got a thesaurus for their birthday
 
2021-10-24 7:32:56 PM  
Sea of Thieves ...
 
2021-10-24 7:57:31 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 8:07:28 PM  
If the game mechanics reward slaughtering everything in sight, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

If I'm bored and just feel like doing virtual violence, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

However, if you can add morality to the game mechanics in a non-preachy way that improves game play, I'm all for it.  If there was a 'take the peaceful path and you can win in a different way' option for GTA5, I'd have played it through by now... maybe not as often as I go on pedestrian murder sprees, but still.
 
2021-10-24 8:11:33 PM  

Unsung_Hero: If the game mechanics reward slaughtering everything in sight, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

If I'm bored and just feel like doing virtual violence, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

However, if you can add morality to the game mechanics in a non-preachy way that improves game play, I'm all for it.  If there was a 'take the peaceful path and you can win in a different way' option for GTA5, I'd have played it through by now... maybe not as often as I go on pedestrian murder sprees, but still.


Murder hobo is a hard addiction to give up
 
2021-10-24 8:15:49 PM  
I was just thinking about the Bioshock endings yesterday.

Bioshock - All 3 Alternate Endings
Youtube f3nBbo-uyZo
 
2021-10-24 8:23:54 PM  

E.S.Q.: Yes.

All playstyles are valid


One rule.

No Lawful Good.

Way too boring.
 
2021-10-24 8:24:35 PM  
If RPGs offered more XP or faster ways to level up by solving quests that don't involve killing, then yes.

But they don't do that. Or if they do, the games aren't very popular.
 
2021-10-24 8:27:02 PM  

Unsung_Hero: If the game mechanics reward slaughtering everything in sight, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

If I'm bored and just feel like doing virtual violence, I'm going to slaughter everything in sight.

However, if you can add morality to the game mechanics in a non-preachy way that improves game play, I'm all for it.  If there was a 'take the peaceful path and you can win in a different way' option for GTA5, I'd have played it through by now... maybe not as often as I go on pedestrian murder sprees, but still.


I tried to go one step beyond that. When playing a stealth Mission I try to find a way to leave one person alive unaware of what carnage just been caused outside. I like to imagine them coming out, seeing all of the John Wick themed Insanity that has happened and then having to explain it to his employer.
 
2021-10-24 8:28:18 PM  
Diablo taught me killing it and watching the goodies come out like a virtual pinata is the most satisfaction I'll ever get out of game.

So yes things die and I expect thay corpse to pay out
 
2021-10-24 8:31:07 PM  
This War of Mine - Gameplay Trailer
Youtube BALBUyoTxQM


Yes. It isn't easy to do right but I'd agree that if you are going to give an option of a potential moral quandary you should put some thought into it. The old Fallout let you kill kids (except in the UK) and the consequence was that stuck to your reputation forever.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Which is a much more mature way to deal with it than invincible kids.

Also This War of Mine might be one of the best games ever made. If you haven't played it yet buy it and get ready for a master class in game design.
 
2021-10-24 8:37:13 PM  

FlashHarry: I have no problem killing hundreds of people in Assassin's Creed, but I'm not crazy about killing wolves. Is that weird?


I will never miss a chance to do the Dark Brotherhood quests, but one bunny gets accidentally slaughtered and I'm loading a save.

/Skyrim keeps track of many things
//including "bunnies slaughtered"
///that number had better stay zero.
 
2021-10-24 8:48:10 PM  
There is a scene in Wolfenstein 2 that I pretty much left it in for a LOOOONG time because the game was forcing me to do something I didn't want to do.

And when I played L.A. Noire years ago I was pretty pissed that the game made my character do something out of character and that something I wouldn't do.

So there's that
 
2021-10-24 8:50:20 PM  
If a game let's me go all murder hobo, I'm going murder hobo
 
2021-10-24 8:55:01 PM  
Have consequences for actions and I have no issues.  Playing evil on InFamous was fun because the powers were far more destructive but the down side was you could never leave the rooftops because police and civilians would gang stomp you, slowing progress to a crawl.
 
2021-10-24 9:01:38 PM  

FlashHarry: I have no problem killing hundreds of people in Assassin's Creed, but I'm not crazy about killing wolves. Is that weird?


Not really, wolves are generally better people than humans.
 
2021-10-24 9:01:40 PM  
It's OK to slaughter everything in sight.  It's not reality, and it can be cathartic.
 
2021-10-24 9:04:22 PM  
No.

Consume your media dispassionately.
 
2021-10-24 9:08:39 PM  
I let dictator Pagan Min from Far Cry 4 live and get away.

Sure, he's torturing the shiat out of some guy you just met while asking you to enjoy crab rangoon, kills his own men viciously for a bloody-as-hell fark-up when you first meet him, but when you know the whole picture ... he's just a crazy bastard who thought he could make a difference, but when it comes down to it, he just lost himself and loved ones while passing through this shiathole.

Like you.

And he's right about your biological dad when you collect the diaries.

Plus, when you get to the game's final scene -- the new bosses are as bad as the old boss.
/the game allowing you to kill them after the credits was welcome, even though that would likely continue the chaos
 
2021-10-24 9:09:27 PM  

phalamir: If elves can be basically okay, if a little fascist, then orcs can be uncivilized and brutal without their DNA sequence literally being EVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL.


The Elder Scrolls is pretty much like this.  Orcs are gruff, live a rough existence and pride themselves on strength / physical combat prowess, but they're still a functioning society and no more good or evil than any of the other races.
 
2021-10-24 9:16:30 PM  
Also, when games have a SCREW EVERYONE option, I love that.

Murder everyone/suicide in Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Yup.

Be the hero but kill the alien council in Mass Effect? Done. (Also killed Garrus)

Flip everyone the bird and walk away in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines as an insane Malkavian or nihilistic Brujah? Damn right.

Say all the right things to everyone but take Vegas for myself in Fallout: New Vegas? Yeah.
 
2021-10-24 9:24:10 PM  
There's nothing more frustrating than playing a video game with children in it, and not being able to slaughter the children.
 
2021-10-24 9:24:51 PM  

buntz: There is a scene in Wolfenstein 2 that I pretty much left it in for a LOOOONG time because the game was forcing me to do something I didn't want to do.

And when I played L.A. Noire years ago I was pretty pissed that the game made my character do something out of character and that something I wouldn't do.

So there's that


Was it not be a humorless sack of shiat?

Because that would be incredibly out of character for Cole.

/Accuse
 
2021-10-24 9:28:23 PM  

Practical_Draconian: Also, when games have a SCREW EVERYONE option, I love that.

Murder everyone/suicide in Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Yup.

Be the hero but kill the alien council in Mass Effect? Done. (Also killed Garrus)

Flip everyone the bird and walk away in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines as an insane Malkavian or nihilistic Brujah? Damn right.

Say all the right things to everyone but take Vegas for myself in Fallout: New Vegas? Yeah.


Monster.

Garrus is one of the most useful support bots in any RPG.

The only way you could have disappointed more would have been admitting you romanced him (or Jack.)
 
2021-10-24 9:28:43 PM  
If I'm given a never ending supply of ammo and a finite supply of things to murder, why not? Murder only matters if there are in game consequences for your actions. It's not real, so why shouldn't I use that schoolbus of orphans to sight in a bazooka?
 
2021-10-24 9:34:58 PM  
Just outlaw everything that isn't tetris.

problem solved.
 
2021-10-24 9:45:30 PM  
I thought This Is the Police did a decent job of forcing you to compromise and weigh the impact of your choices. There is no good guy option, but you cannot ignore the consequences unless you are truly shallow.
 
2021-10-24 9:48:10 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Just outlaw everything that isn't tetris.

problem solved.


Difficulty:

Tetris Effect: Connected
 
2021-10-24 9:54:33 PM  
Am I the only one who played Molynuex's Black & White back in the day? You can be a benevolent deity or a vengeful one. Or, like me, just switch back and forth for no discernible reason and keep your minions guessing.

/ regardless, your blog really, really sucks
 
2021-10-24 9:56:13 PM  
In a TTRPG setting, I usually prefer to use incentives and human relationships and cleverness, because insert murder-coin and receive reward is just less interesting to me given the possible options. My most recent character was a Wayang trickshooting bard from a school of special effects and illusions who performed in a magical circus, not a big damage dealer. While I normally play monks, it's also because the Dex-Wis combination is also really flexible for skills. I like the intrinsically broader number of options.

Combat in video games tends to be much more finely tuned for fun and hitting the dopamine button, so it can be a different story there. I liked playing AC: Odyssey because the grinding was decently fun and the environments were cool to run around. Simplistic game choices can be frustrating, because the NPCs or PCs fail the basic rightness test, i.e. why is this character right to believe and act the way they do? In a Mad Max world, you don't have to be a total piece of shiat to ride with a gang, you can do it just to eat and have a decently safe place to sleep. You change who's in charge or give them a better way out, odds are good they'll have your back. Incentives work wonders. I tended to play Paragon Shepard because pro-social approaches are usually more successful than being a dick and tend to keep people better disposed to you, it's best for your team to get along well rather than give them shiat, and sacrificing Alliance soldiers secures an improved position for humanity.

One of the choices in Mass Effect Andromeda that really aggravated me was a choice over saving some of Drack's scouts or the Salarian pathfinder. Thing is, scouts? They're the first to die, always are, it's the most dangerous role in a fighting force, and Drack being 1400ish years old and an experienced mercenary should farking know that. Also, Drack doesn't tell me they're even aboard until a cutscene. So then the situation is set up, where if you save the Salarian pathfinder, of whom there is only one, Drack is pissed at Ryder for not saving a bunch of scouts Ryder does not know, was not consulted about, and did not ask for like it was some big betrayal. No. Dumb. That's bullshiat fake conflict, and Drack does not pass the rightness test, nor does it fit with his character up to that point.

Fortunately, the people I play TTRPGs with are also really bored by 'orcs are evil and dumb', so it works out on that count. When I DMed for my roommate, I did a Dear Esther riff, but a former pirate island, that also had a weird magic that tended to make people forgetful and end up stuck there. It was an escape story with a puzzle. Roomie really liked it. He made an effort to get every wrecked sailor, a barely-there wizard, the chickens, and even the mail off the island.
 
2021-10-24 9:57:31 PM  
By the way, anyone who has not tried Tetris Effect and has Game Pass, give it a try.
 
2021-10-24 9:58:11 PM  
*Disco Elysium has entered the chat*

All arguments are now invalid.
 
2021-10-24 9:58:24 PM  

NathanAllen: Practical_Draconian: Also, when games have a SCREW EVERYONE option, I love that.

Murder everyone/suicide in Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Yup.

Be the hero but kill the alien council in Mass Effect? Done. (Also killed Garrus)

Flip everyone the bird and walk away in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines as an insane Malkavian or nihilistic Brujah? Damn right.

Say all the right things to everyone but take Vegas for myself in Fallout: New Vegas? Yeah.

Monster.

Garrus is one of the most useful support bots in any RPG.

The only way you could have disappointed more would have been admitting you romanced him (or Jack.)


My morally gray, biatchy FemShep romanced Thane (she had a thing for dying men like Kaidan).

But her Sentinel skillset made Garrus worthless. No psyker combos to work with. Thane can do sniping as well as psyker combos, in comparison.

So WRONG. Garrus is not always useful.

And Thane's romance was one of the game's more interesting pairs, particularly as it added revenge flavor and spirituality in ME3 and the casino add-on.
 
2021-10-24 10:00:56 PM  

gunsmack: Am I the only one who played Molynuex's Black & White back in the day? You can be a benevolent deity or a vengeful one. Or, like me, just switch back and forth for no discernible reason and keep your minions guessing.

/ regardless, your blog really, really sucks


I played it, at 2am, and the bug where it would whisper 'Deaaath' over and over freaked me the fark out. Fortunately they fixed it in a patch.
 
2021-10-24 10:03:03 PM  
I follow all of the traffic laws in GTA.
 
2021-10-24 10:08:52 PM  
Firewatch - September 2016 Trailer
Youtube HdUYYnfRdl8
 
Displayed 50 of 107 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.