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(Yahoo)   Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison for four years without being convicted of anything, and gotten ten ambassadors kicked out of Turkey for asking why?   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Turkey, Diplomacy, foreign ambassadors, case of Osman Kavala, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, International observers, Foreign minister, Abdullah Gl  
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2453 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Oct 2021 at 1:24 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-24 12:18:53 PM  
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
 
2021-10-24 1:26:14 PM  
Erdogan needs killing.
 
2021-10-24 1:27:17 PM  
Basted Turkey. Just in time for Thanksgiving
 
2021-10-24 1:30:28 PM  
Yes.  They are especially tough on the Taffy smugglers.  Four years four trying to smuggle for bricks of TT.  Salt water is okay but you can't get the rush that TT gives.
 
2021-10-24 1:35:20 PM  
That clown running Turkey is more Surly Man than Suleiman.

In fact, he looks more like Boris Badenov.

is3-ssl.mzstatic.comView Full Size
pm1.narvii.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 1:35:27 PM  
Man, I visited Turkey ages ago and it was actually a pretty cool place. Of course, I was mainly in Istanbul so have no first hand knowledge of the rest of the country. From how it sounds, however, the place is turning into a shiathole (if it isn't already).
 
2021-10-24 1:48:14 PM  
I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.
 
2021-10-24 1:53:28 PM  
Trump Tower is still cool though.
 
2021-10-24 1:54:23 PM  
He added: "They will recognize, understand and know Turkey. The day they don't know or understand Turkey, they will leave."

That's funny, because it kinda seems like you are making them leave because they know and understand Turkey....
 
2021-10-24 1:57:02 PM  

Gaythiest Elitist: I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.


POTUS cannot kick anyone out of NATO.  It is a mutual defense treaty of co-equal members, not POTUS' personal fief.  Also "we need to fight fascism by going ultra-fascist" is definitely a spicy hot take.
 
2021-10-24 1:58:52 PM  
Finland's leader:
mynorthwest.comView Full Size


What the hell? Now I feel like America has been ripped off for 250 years.
 
2021-10-24 2:02:16 PM  
What a menacing Turkey might look like.

thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 2:02:30 PM  

Aquapope: Finland's leader:
[mynorthwest.com image 420x236]

What the hell? Now I feel like America has been ripped off for 250 years.


Isn't that the girl from "Blacklist?"
 
2021-10-24 2:07:27 PM  
How much aid money does Turkey currently take each year from the US? Seems like any amount > $0 needs to be cut off indefinitely.
 
2021-10-24 2:07:34 PM  

phalamir: Gaythiest Elitist: I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.

POTUS cannot kick anyone out of NATO.  It is a mutual defense treaty of co-equal members, not POTUS' personal fief.  Also "we need to fight fascism by going ultra-fascist" is definitely a spicy hot take.


there's nothing more fascist than breaking an alliance with a government because they're fascist, and as we all know, tolerating fascism is the best way to counter it
 
2021-10-24 2:15:48 PM  

phalamir: Gaythiest Elitist: I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.

POTUS cannot kick anyone out of NATO.  It is a mutual defense treaty of co-equal members, not POTUS' personal fief.  Also "we need to fight fascism by going ultra-fascist" is definitely a spicy hot take.


Really? [Jesus Christ]
 
2021-10-24 2:42:19 PM  

Gaythiest Elitist: I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.


Those are two different things.

Recognising Kurdistan would be interesting, given that its in Syria, Iraq and Turkey.

It would give Turkey reason to get rid of the Turks.

The EU needs Turkey as a buffer zone for refugees, so, they're not being kicked out of NATO. As to why you think USA/Biden can kick anyone out, you've been sniffing glue. Obviously USA has clout, but its lead by the collective of its members, and noone, including USA, wants Turkey out of NATO.

Isolating Turkey would make them more fascist.


The only thing that isn't outright wrong, is your random claim for recognising Kurdistan. Why? Since they're semi autonomous in Syria, perhaps Iraq, I haven't checked, now is probably a good time if you want to. But why, you're just making random rambles.

And what will you do when Turkey squishes the Kurds, which they will. Go to war with Turkey?


USA can't get Kurdistan recognised in the UN, or did you not know that either?
 
2021-10-24 2:45:04 PM  

fragMasterFlash: How much aid money does Turkey currently take each year from the US? Seems like any amount > $0 needs to be cut off indefinitely.


Yes, but that amount cut will be made up for through increased aid from Russia and China.So, it's not as much as a deterrent as one might think.
 
2021-10-24 2:46:14 PM  
Джоуи, вы когда-нибудь сидели в турецкой тюрьме в течение четырех лет, не будучи осужденным ни за что, и выгоняли десять послов из Турции за то, что спросили, почему?

This makes as much sense if you don't read Russian.

U.S., France, Germany, Netherlands, Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway and New Zealand might want to leave before Ankara becomes a hotbed of plutonium poisonings during the 2022 winter heating crisis in Europe.
 
2021-10-24 2:49:00 PM  

Gaythiest Elitist: phalamir: Gaythiest Elitist: I'd love to see President Biden declare/recognize Kurdistan and kick Turkey the FO of NATO. That would stop a lot of fascist Turkey noises. Then again, I'd like Biden to do more against fascism here at home, too.

POTUS cannot kick anyone out of NATO.  It is a mutual defense treaty of co-equal members, not POTUS' personal fief.  Also "we need to fight fascism by going ultra-fascist" is definitely a spicy hot take.

Really? [Jesus Christ]


Wow, you really did think that. What made you believe that?

That NATOs HQ is in Bruxelles, Belgium, and the general secretary is a Norwegian, didn't kinda give you a wiff of the clue bat?
 
2021-10-24 2:51:33 PM  

NephilimNexus: Aquapope: Finland's leader:
[mynorthwest.com image 420x236]

What the hell? Now I feel like America has been ripped off for 250 years.

Isn't that the girl from "Blacklist?"


List of color, thank you very much.
 
2021-10-24 2:54:02 PM  
Thanks for the Farksplainin' you humorless twats. :eyeroll:
 
2021-10-24 2:54:12 PM  
Erdogan sits cozily in bed with Russia while slowly dismantling everything Ataturk built. He's the worst thing that has happened to Turkey. His hands are even bloodier than Trump's with what they did to the Kurds. When will people learn that conservative right wing policies are destructive to everyone's well being? When will the majority of all classes speak out, get up, and stop allowing religious dogmatic bullshiat people to gain power?

...and the march to destroy Western Liberalism across the world continues. Thanks, assholes.
 
2021-10-24 2:56:27 PM  
They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.
 
2021-10-24 2:59:49 PM  
I bet the EU is thanking their lucky stars they dodged this bullet.  Turkey isn't going to be civilized any time soon.
 
2021-10-24 3:04:27 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 3:19:03 PM  
The Turkish government finally legalized the letters Q, W, and X as part of the Turkish alphabet in 2013.  Turkish prisons may have freed all the alphabet offenders in the last decade leaving the prisons almost empty.
 
2021-10-24 3:21:05 PM  

special20: Erdogan sits cozily in bed with Russia while slowly dismantling everything Ataturk built. He's the worst thing that has happened to Turkey. His hands are even bloodier than Trump's with what they did to the Kurds. When will people learn that conservative right wing policies are destructive to everyone's well being? When will the majority of all classes speak out, get up, and stop allowing religious dogmatic bullshiat people to gain power?

...and the march to destroy Western Liberalism across the world continues. Thanks, assholes.


The reason that Erdogan is in bed with Russia is that they put him in power. Russia's involvement in America's 2016 election was just a repeat of what they have been doing in Turkey for years. Putin saw Turkey getting closer to NATO and the EU, which posed a real threat to his plans. A naval base in Crimea isn't all that useful if the Bosporus is closed to your ships.

So Putin started a campaign to feed disinformation to Turkish social media and news reporting, intent on empowering religious conservatives and getting them into office. This has produced internal schisms in Turkish politics, damaged international relations, and weakened Western alliances like the EU and NATO. This campaign is still ongoing, with Russian media outlets continuing to spread like the CIA was responsible for the 2016 coup and that NATO was sponsoring ISIS.

Weaponizing religious conservatives with disinformation and getting authoritarian populist candidates elected is much better than actual war in terms of foreign policy.
 
DVD
2021-10-24 3:33:56 PM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: special20: Erdogan sits cozily in bed with Russia while slowly dismantling everything Ataturk built. He's the worst thing that has happened to Turkey. His hands are even bloodier than Trump's with what they did to the Kurds. When will people learn that conservative right wing policies are destructive to everyone's well being? When will the majority of all classes speak out, get up, and stop allowing religious dogmatic bullshiat people to gain power?

...and the march to destroy Western Liberalism across the world continues. Thanks, assholes.

The reason that Erdogan is in bed with Russia is that they put him in power. Russia's involvement in America's 2016 election was just a repeat of what they have been doing in Turkey for years. Putin saw Turkey getting closer to NATO and the EU, which posed a real threat to his plans. A naval base in Crimea isn't all that useful if the Bosporus is closed to your ships.

So Putin started a campaign to feed disinformation to Turkish social media and news reporting, intent on empowering religious conservatives and getting them into office. This has produced internal schisms in Turkish politics, damaged international relations, and weakened Western alliances like the EU and NATO. This campaign is still ongoing, with Russian media outlets continuing to spread like the CIA was responsible for the 2016 coup and that NATO was sponsoring ISIS.

Weaponizing religious conservatives with disinformation and getting authoritarian populist candidates elected is much better than actual war in terms of foreign policy.


______________________________________​_

I believe this is very possible, especially with Putin, but I hadn't read anything about this in other venues.    Turkey's been NATO for a very long time, BECAUSE of the Soviets.
 
2021-10-24 3:53:39 PM  

DVD: Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: special20: Erdogan sits cozily in bed with Russia while slowly dismantling everything Ataturk built. He's the worst thing that has happened to Turkey. His hands are even bloodier than Trump's with what they did to the Kurds. When will people learn that conservative right wing policies are destructive to everyone's well being? When will the majority of all classes speak out, get up, and stop allowing religious dogmatic bullshiat people to gain power?

...and the march to destroy Western Liberalism across the world continues. Thanks, assholes.

The reason that Erdogan is in bed with Russia is that they put him in power. Russia's involvement in America's 2016 election was just a repeat of what they have been doing in Turkey for years. Putin saw Turkey getting closer to NATO and the EU, which posed a real threat to his plans. A naval base in Crimea isn't all that useful if the Bosporus is closed to your ships.

So Putin started a campaign to feed disinformation to Turkish social media and news reporting, intent on empowering religious conservatives and getting them into office. This has produced internal schisms in Turkish politics, damaged international relations, and weakened Western alliances like the EU and NATO. This campaign is still ongoing, with Russian media outlets continuing to spread like the CIA was responsible for the 2016 coup and that NATO was sponsoring ISIS.

Weaponizing religious conservatives with disinformation and getting authoritarian populist candidates elected is much better than actual war in terms of foreign policy.

______________________________________​_

I believe this is very possible, especially with Putin, but I hadn't read anything about this in other venues.    Turkey's been NATO for a very long time, BECAUSE of the Soviets.


I'll have to see if I can find some earlier sources but this a good example of how the policy is continuing.

Turkey's inclusion in NATO predates Putin by a long time but until the advent of the internet and social media, there wasn't a lot that Russia could do about it. Now, not so much. I could see Turkey pulling out of NATO in the 2030s if they continue to trend towards a conservative religious dictatorship, just like Trump and the GOP started hinting about doing.
 
2021-10-24 4:44:59 PM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: I could see Turkey pulling out of NATO in the 2030s if they continue to trend towards a conservative religious dictatorship, just like Trump and the GOP started hinting about doing.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2021-10-24 4:56:22 PM  

Gaythiest Elitist: Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.

[Fark user image 680x680]


I think the distinction is interesting, though I understand some people aren't intellectually curious, for one reason or another.
 
2021-10-24 5:15:35 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: Man, I visited Turkey ages ago and it was actually a pretty cool place. Of course, I was mainly in Istanbul so have no first hand knowledge of the rest of the country. From how it sounds, however, the place is turning into a shiathole (if it isn't already).


Been to Antalya twice, once with a side-trip to Side, Oymapinar Dam and boating on Manavgat Reservoir.  Lots of nice and historical stuff in those places, too.
 
2021-10-24 5:45:36 PM  
Remember the Armenian Genocide.
 
2021-10-24 6:12:04 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: Gaythiest Elitist: Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.

[Fark user image 680x680]

I think the distinction is interesting, though I understand some people aren't intellectually curious, for one reason or another.


My post was/is, obviously, absurd. You're like the person who, when asked for the time, responds with how a watch is made, except no one even asked.
 
2021-10-24 6:42:17 PM  

Gaythiest Elitist: Ketchuponsteak: Gaythiest Elitist: Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.

[Fark user image 680x680]

I think the distinction is interesting, though I understand some people aren't intellectually curious, for one reason or another.

My post was/is, obviously, absurd. You're like the person who, when asked for the time, responds with how a watch is made, except no one even asked.


No, because kicking the ambassadors out, is possible, and would have been way more serious. I corrected a claim made by the submitter, the ambassadors were not kicked out.

You seem to not being able to tell the difference of correcting a factual mistake, one that claims something very serious has happened, to first being pedantic, and now to answering questions that were not asked in an annoying way.

Do you find me annoying? Good.
 
2021-10-24 7:20:06 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.


It's just like the song says - that's nobody's business but the Turks.

And having traveled, I fully accept your explanation of the nuanced differences between being kicked out of a country, and being told you can no longer remain in the country, even if they are effectively the same.
 
2021-10-24 7:38:35 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: That clown running Turkey is more Surly Man than Suleiman.

In fact, he looks more like Boris Badenov.

[is3-ssl.mzstatic.com image 256x256][pm1.narvii.com image 128x128]


Every time I see him I think of the similarities to Pinochet. He looks like him, too.
 
2021-10-24 7:40:11 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Remember the Armenian Genocide.


He's working on one for the Kurds, so you will forget about the other one.
 
2021-10-24 7:44:07 PM  

dbirchall: Ketchuponsteak: They weren't actually kicked out, they were declared Persona Non Grata, ie. not welcome.

Its the step before being kicked out. But it does make a difference that they on their own recognizance, as opposed to be arrested and literally escorted to the airport, and put on a plane.

I don't know how quickly the other ambassadors left, but the Danish left within 24 hours, with the deputy chief of mission being in charge until Denmark sends someone else. The official stance in Denmark was to not care, though ordinary a serious step, this is seen just as internal Turkish politics, with Erdogan trying to look like a strong man.

I guess if anyone cared, there'd be retaliation. But since noone does, but the Turks, its their business.

It's just like the song says - that's nobody's business but the Turks.

And having traveled, I fully accept your explanation of the nuanced differences between being kicked out of a country, and being told you can no longer remain in the country, even if they are effectively the same.


One allows you to gather your personal belongings, say goodbye to the staff and leave the nation in an orderly fashion.

The other has you arrested, and put on a plane home. Whilst for a tourist, that might be the same. In fact, you might even prefer the latter as you save the plane ticket. For an ambassador there's obviously a difference as above.

Also, kicking a diplomat out, would be a violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which I hope you understand is a bit more serious than getting drunk on Ibiza, and being send home as a tourist.
 
2021-10-24 8:39:23 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: kicking a diplomat out, would be a violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which I hope you understand is a bit more serious than getting drunk on Ibiza, and being send home as a tourist.


Sure, article 29 -- though if the diplomat has violated article 41(1) of the Convention by interfering with internal affairs of the receiving state, the action Turkey just took under article 9 is entirely to be expected, and if any sending state doesn't recall their diplomat, article 9(2) allows Turkey to stop recognizing them as a member of the mission, at which point it could be argued that they are no longer protected by the Convention.

You seem to know this stuff pretty well, but your profile doesn't make it clear where you picked it up.
 
2021-10-24 9:47:11 PM  

dbirchall: Ketchuponsteak: kicking a diplomat out, would be a violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which I hope you understand is a bit more serious than getting drunk on Ibiza, and being send home as a tourist.

Sure, article 29 -- though if the diplomat has violated article 41(1) of the Convention by interfering with internal affairs of the receiving state, the action Turkey just took under article 9 is entirely to be expected, and if any sending state doesn't recall their diplomat, article 9(2) allows Turkey to stop recognizing them as a member of the mission, at which point it could be argued that they are no longer protected by the Convention.

You seem to know this stuff pretty well, but your profile doesn't make it clear where you picked it up.


I studied Pol. Sci., changed subject after some years.

Though I think the concept of diplomatic immunity is something most people understand. So since it is technically possible for Turkey to barge into the embassy and kick the ambassador out, they didn't.

That would be a very dumbass move by Erdogan, so I am sorry he didn't.
 
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