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(Yahoo)   Sweden warns Afghanistan is heading toward collapse faster than expected, confusing everyone else who thought it had already gotten there   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Afghanistan, Development aid, United States, Taliban, Humanitarian aid, United Nations, Pakistan, economic collapse  
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1244 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Oct 2021 at 12:24 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-24 9:10:08 AM  
"Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.
 
Xai [recently expired TotalFark]
2021-10-24 9:53:21 AM  
This should be a huge wake up call to Americans.

This shows that the religious right wing would rather see their entire nation descend into poverty and ruin rather than allow moderates to be in power.
 
TWX
2021-10-24 10:14:30 AM  
So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.
 
2021-10-24 10:34:53 AM  

TWX: So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.


Are we really in a position to criticize?
 
2021-10-24 10:57:55 AM  
Has theocracy ever succeeded?
 
2021-10-24 10:59:34 AM  

TWX: So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.


Don't want to, or haven't been able to what with all the outside influences over the last century or so?
 
2021-10-24 11:09:09 AM  

Xai: This should be a huge wake up call to Americans.

This shows that the religious right wing would rather see their entire nation descend into poverty and ruin rather than allow moderates to be in power.


Yeah, except where the "moderates" were a gang of kleptocrats who fled as soon as their muscle took a powder-break. We were the suckers in this exchange, and if there was a U.S. program that was going to change that, I never heard about it. Am I happy that a bunch of religious fanatics are going to be running a small country 7,000 miles away? No. Am I happy that we stopped lining the pockets of a bunch of thieves 7,000 miles away? Yup.

I do see where we are in danger from Christian absolutists right here in River City, and I worry about that. Our track record so far on dealing with that crap is cause for concern. The Establishment Clause is pretty well understood -- by the experts, anyway -- but, lately, rather indifferently enforced. We need to build a country that takes better care of people here or our home-grown extremists will just get more traction. There are people in Washington who like the way things are going, and all they have to do to keep things going this way is shut down any effort to fix anything. We seem to be making that easy for them, and it makes me cranky. Sorry.
 
2021-10-24 11:14:57 AM  
Soon Afghanistan won't be a country as somebody will take it over and make it a territory.
 
TWX
2021-10-24 11:32:25 AM  

browneye: TWX: So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.

Are we really in a position to criticize?


hips.hearstapps.comView Full Size


Yes.

I know that the Taliban did not directly cause the Al Quaeda terror attacks, but they played willing host to those who did and refused to turn them over to American authorities afterward.  They fostered an envionment where the organization that wanted to do this could sete up shop to plan it and then knowingly harbored them afterward.

And yes, I know that when Bin Laden was finally found he was no longer in Afghanistan but in Pakistan.  The situation with Pakistan is another discussion.  It would not surprise me if the Pakistani federal government is weak enough that it doesn't really control large swaths of territory that it claims, and that authority more closely sits with individual people that have managed to carve out niches for themselves in an almost feudal structure, nominally paying fealty to the central government but largely acting autonomously and frequently at-odds with what the central government in Islamabad actually wants or claims that it wants for the purposes of international relations.  But s I said, this is another discussion.
 
TWX
2021-10-24 11:40:30 AM  

kdawg7736: Soon Afghanistan won't be a country as somebody will take it over and make it a territory.


No they won't.  Not without killing nearly every person already living there.  The British tried it numerous times without specifically taking violence to the average civilian, the Soviets tried it while specifically menacing violence against the civilian population, and the American-lead UN coalition tried it while attempting to appease the civilian population.  In no case did it work.

The one common root is that the people will resist occupation. Doesn't matter why they're occupied or how velvet the glove, they've demonstrated that they will resist.  Doesn't even matter if there's understanding of the structure of the tribal relationships and specific military actions against limited numbers of particular groups, even enemies seem to generally band-up and resist.

Some irony here is that there may not have been a national identity shared by those that live there before all of this, but by the time the British, Soviet, and American occupations have ended there sure as hell is now, at least when it comes to the defense of their territory.  And this is probably a strong contributing factor as to why the Taliban have been able to reemerge, because they're the strongest entity that appeals to the goal of kicking any foreign occupation out of the country.
 
2021-10-24 12:06:17 PM  
So the US sucked the nation dry and left it a dessicated husk?
 
2021-10-24 12:28:34 PM  
No worries, god's will and all.
 
2021-10-24 12:29:01 PM  
Not true.  In order for Afghanistan to collapse it would, by default, need to have actually been stable at some point in history.
 
2021-10-24 12:32:27 PM  
So with the rise of fentanyl nobody really gives a shiat about afghan opium when its basically just cut for the lab made shiat? So much for your precious cash cow, Towlie-banos.
 
2021-10-24 12:34:41 PM  
Sweden's estimation of the Afghani state of affairs...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-24 12:37:39 PM  
Putting half the population on house arrest hurts the economy eh?
 
2021-10-24 12:39:41 PM  
Isn't chaos kind of the default setting for Afghanistan?
 
2021-10-24 12:42:34 PM  
We go sink your trillions into stabilizing it.
 
2021-10-24 12:44:02 PM  

Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.


Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..
 
2021-10-24 12:47:50 PM  
It's gonna get worse?!
 
2021-10-24 12:49:56 PM  

Xai: This should be a huge wake up call to Americans.

This shows that the religious right wing would rather see their entire nation descend into poverty and ruin rather than allow moderates to be in power.


Funny, moderates are doing the same thing to this country in order to keep the progressives from power.
 
2021-10-24 12:50:38 PM  

TWX: browneye: TWX: So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.

Are we really in a position to criticize?

[hips.hearstapps.com image 470x319]

Yes.

I know that the Taliban did not directly cause the Al Quaeda terror attacks, but they played willing host to those who did and refused to turn them over to American authorities afterward.  They fostered an envionment where the organization that wanted to do this could sete up shop to plan it and then knowingly harbored them afterward.

And yes, I know that when Bin Laden was finally found he was no longer in Afghanistan but in Pakistan.  The situation with Pakistan is another discussion.  It would not surprise me if the Pakistani federal government is weak enough that it doesn't really control large swaths of territory that it claims, and that authority more closely sits with individual people that have managed to carve out niches for themselves in an almost feudal structure, nominally paying fealty to the central government but largely acting autonomously and frequently at-odds with what the central government in Islamabad actually wants or claims that it wants for the purposes of international relations.  But s I said, this is another discussion.


Is it?  It's the perfect time for retrospection now that the grift has ended.
Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11, including the Taliban.
Nearly all 9/11 hijackers and their financiers we're from Saudi Arabia.
Occupying Afghanistan didn't benefit anyone except a handful of Americans.  It didn't make the US any safer.
The greatest threat to the USA right now is from far right fascist groups who already attempted to overthrow the government on January 6th.  Michael Flynn just yesterday was calling for a bloody civil war.
We are not going back there, ditto for Vietnam.  IMHO we can't afford another major invasion and occupation.
And yes, the UK is getting a kick.
 
DVD
2021-10-24 12:50:50 PM  

OhioUGrad: Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.

Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..


______________________________________​______

It only works where the oppressive hand of the federal government makes it work.  Otherwise, the local and state GOP idiots try to make it not work as best they can.
 
2021-10-24 12:52:54 PM  

Marcos P: It's gonna get worse?!


Hopefully.
 
2021-10-24 12:54:02 PM  
nice goin biden...........
 
2021-10-24 12:58:38 PM  
Russia spent 11 years.
We spent 20 years.

You're up, China.
 
2021-10-24 1:04:08 PM  

aaronx: Am I happy that we stopped lining the pockets of a bunch of thieves 7,000 miles away? Yup.


Or in my case, 70 miles.
 
2021-10-24 1:05:45 PM  

Northern: Is it?  It's the perfect time for retrospection now that the grift has ended.
Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11, including the Taliban.
Nearly all 9/11 hijackers and their financiers we're from Saudi Arabia.
Occupying Afghanistan didn't benefit anyone except a handful of Americans.  It didn't make the US any safer.
The greatest threat to the USA right now is from far right fascist groups who already attempted to overthrow the government on January 6th.  Michael Flynn just yesterday was calling for a bloody civil war.
We are not going back there, ditto for Vietnam.  IMHO we can't afford another major invasion and occupation.
And yes, the UK is getting a kick.


It's important to remember that we invaded Afghanistan because the government told Dubya "um, we'd love to help, but we need you to agree to act like a nation of laws." Our response? "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty."

The narrative pushed at the time had little to do with the reality of the situation. We were angry. We just had someone tell us "no." We were gonna lynch someone, because goddamn it, we'd just had thousands of civilians attacked in our homeland. We basically acted like an angry mob instead of a reasoned nation.

Afghanistan bore the brunt of a response that should've likely, and rightly, fallen on Saudi Arabia.
 
2021-10-24 1:06:41 PM  
They're just gonna have to civil war this one out. Nobody else can help them until they get their own house in order.
 
2021-10-24 1:07:01 PM  
considering that their nations wealth was looted by the Mayor of Kabul and the USA literally seizing their bank accounts. Is this a surprise?   Not to mention the sudden diaspora of various essential bureaucrats.   

Think a moron from the hills with a literal LIFETIME of combat experiennce has any knowledge of water or sewer management?  What about international commodities trades?
 
2021-10-24 1:11:21 PM  

PlasticMoby: They're just gonna have to civil war this one out. Nobody else can help them until they get their own house in order.


I know a place where they can all buy some weapons.
 
2021-10-24 1:13:22 PM  
What a terrible shame. Perhaps China should take a crack at invading. Surely they'll be the one that figures Afghanistan out.
 
2021-10-24 1:14:27 PM  

DVD: OhioUGrad: Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.

Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..

______________________________________​______

It only works where the oppressive hand of the federal government makes it work.  Otherwise, the local and state GOP idiots try to make it not work as best they can.


Well, virtually every red state is an aid-dependent economy, cut em' off and they'd look just like Afghanistan.
 
2021-10-24 1:15:38 PM  
God wants them all poor and dying - can't argue with God, man
 
2021-10-24 1:20:28 PM  

Northern: Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11, including the Taliban.
Nearly all 9/11 hijackers and their financiers we're from Saudi Arabia.


I will say, Afghanistan had a heck of a lot more to do with 9/11 than Iraq did.

/But Saudi Arabia, yeah...
 
2021-10-24 1:25:44 PM  
They were still a broken country on the verge of collapse ever since Russia left them in the 80s. We just did there fighting and paying the bills for a while propping up what was left.
 
2021-10-24 1:27:59 PM  
Maybe a couple of trillion will stabilize it.  Those Afghan billionaires know how to give back to the nation.  Jerbs and more jerbs.  And some guns.
 
DVD
2021-10-24 1:28:52 PM  
A worrisome outcome of the Taliban having momentum is the spillover to Pakistan's Taliban.  They're pushing forward again.  Last time, they came a wee bit too close to taking over nuclear facilities.  An Islamic extremist group with nuclear weapons, or at least a good supply of fissile materiel, is not a good thing.
 
2021-10-24 1:31:56 PM  
It's Pakistan's dog now. Let them feed it and keep it off our lawn. I don't know why anyone should be expected to provide aid to hostile countries that have their own allies. I don't understand why the US and its allies should be expected to help out  North Korea either. If they are starving, China should feed them. It's their farking ally and they have the world's second-largest GDP. Figure it out, aholes.
 
2021-10-24 1:34:15 PM  

Northern: TWX: browneye: TWX: So Afghanistan is returning to the baseline that it had prior to the end of 2001?

The people of Afghanistan have my sympathy, but by the same token it has been repeatedly demonstrated that outsiders cannot change Afghanistan for the good.  Only Afganis can change it, and apparently Afghanis don't want to.

Are we really in a position to criticize?

[hips.hearstapps.com image 470x319]

Yes.

I know that the Taliban did not directly cause the Al Quaeda terror attacks, but they played willing host to those who did and refused to turn them over to American authorities afterward.  They fostered an envionment where the organization that wanted to do this could sete up shop to plan it and then knowingly harbored them afterward.

And yes, I know that when Bin Laden was finally found he was no longer in Afghanistan but in Pakistan.  The situation with Pakistan is another discussion.  It would not surprise me if the Pakistani federal government is weak enough that it doesn't really control large swaths of territory that it claims, and that authority more closely sits with individual people that have managed to carve out niches for themselves in an almost feudal structure, nominally paying fealty to the central government but largely acting autonomously and frequently at-odds with what the central government in Islamabad actually wants or claims that it wants for the purposes of international relations.  But s I said, this is another discussion.

Is it?  It's the perfect time for retrospection now that the grift has ended.
Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11, including the Taliban.
Nearly all 9/11 hijackers and their financiers we're from Saudi Arabia.
Occupying Afghanistan didn't benefit anyone except a handful of Americans.  It didn't make the US any safer.
The greatest threat to the USA right now is from far right fascist groups who already attempted to overthrow the government on January 6th.  Michael Flynn just yesterday was calling for a bloody civil war.
We are not going back there, ditto for Vietnam.  IMHO we can't afford another major invasion and occupation.
And yes, the UK is getting a kick.


Bin Laden wasn't born in Afghanistan but he was hanging out there at the time and there were training camps like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al​_Farou​q_training_camp.

You can criticize the way it was handled, but there was absolutely a justification for some form of military action against Afghanistan.
 
2021-10-24 1:36:24 PM  

Nadie_AZ: So the US sucked the nation dry and left it a dessicated husk?


No the US spent trillions and it's still a dry husk.
 
2021-10-24 1:39:07 PM  

OhioUGrad: Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.

Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..


You left out Ohio.
 
2021-10-24 1:42:45 PM  

OhioUGrad: DVD: OhioUGrad: Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.

Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..

______________________________________​______

It only works where the oppressive hand of the federal government makes it work.  Otherwise, the local and state GOP idiots try to make it not work as best they can.

Well, virtually every red state is an aid-dependent economy, cut em' off and they'd look just like Afghanistan.


https://www.moneygeek.com/living/state​s-most-reliant-federal-government/

Plenty of red states (like Texas) are net contributers and plenty of blue states (like Vermont, Connecticut, and Oregon) are leeches.

Stop using outdated infographics
 
2021-10-24 1:47:21 PM  
The Taliban know they need foreign assistance to maintain their rule or face civil war. They always have, and have been real clear about wanting to retain people and work to keep aid flowing. There really is no alternative other than civil war to establish a new power paradigm again.

Afghanistan does not have a large enough economy to support and feed its population, particularly with the bulk of the current Afghan population having been born under the US occupation and been reliant on foreign assistance.

No Afghan government has survived without foreign support in living memory, and all have collapsed overnight the moment they either lost foreign backing or a larger backer threw behind their enemies.
 
DVD
2021-10-24 1:52:20 PM  

lilplatinum: OhioUGrad: DVD: OhioUGrad: Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.

Well, it works in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc..

______________________________________​______

It only works where the oppressive hand of the federal government makes it work.  Otherwise, the local and state GOP idiots try to make it not work as best they can.

Well, virtually every red state is an aid-dependent economy, cut em' off and they'd look just like Afghanistan.

https://www.moneygeek.com/living/state​s-most-reliant-federal-government/

Plenty of red states (like Texas) are net contributers and plenty of blue states (like Vermont, Connecticut, and Oregon) are leeches.

Stop using outdated infographics


______________________________________​___

I don't count Texas as a red state.  I count it as a purple state held hostage by GOP power plays.  With the idiotic brainwashing Faux News causing Republicans to kill themselves at a high rate, I can see why the power play includes shutting down "unreliable voters".
 
2021-10-24 1:57:08 PM  

Ivo Shandor: You can criticize the way it was handled, but there was absolutely a justification for some form of military action against Afghanistan.


Yes, there was a justification to go in, put a cap in his ass, and blow the shiat out of anyone who tried to stop us, and then leave. Not draw down to invade Iraq and allow him to get out and go hide in Pakistan.

Hell, I'd be OK for also wrecking all of their modern military equipment and napalming the poppy fields on our way out as an object lesson as to why you don't harbor terrorists. But no occupation and no nation building.

As Delenn said of the Streib: We tracked them back to their home world and made sure they understood the depth of their mistake.
 
2021-10-24 2:14:46 PM  
The more religious a country is, the poorer its citizens.

God-fearing countries are among the least wealthy-with one notable exception

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how​-​a-countrys-views-on-god-affect-its-pro​sperity-2018-07-20

/with one notable exception
 
2021-10-24 2:15:26 PM  

Bslim: "Afghanistan has been plunged into crisis following the collapse of the Western-backed government and Taliban take over in August, which was met with an abrupt end of billions of dollars in assistance to its aid-dependent economy"

What, a bunch of stinky, religious goat f*ckers can't run a country? Maybe Allah can provide for them.


We'll just put you down as "undecided" for now.
 
2021-10-24 2:16:47 PM  

CheatCommando: Ivo Shandor: You can criticize the way it was handled, but there was absolutely a justification for some form of military action against Afghanistan.

Yes, there was a justification to go in, put a cap in his ass, and blow the shiat out of anyone who tried to stop us, and then leave. Not draw down to invade Iraq and allow him to get out and go hide in Pakistan.

Hell, I'd be OK for also wrecking all of their modern military equipment and napalming the poppy fields on our way out as an object lesson as to why you don't harbor terrorists. But no occupation and no nation building.

As Delenn said of the Streib: We tracked them back to their home world and made sure they understood the depth of their mistake.


I was watching that very episode less than an hour ago!
I had forgotten how good that show was.
I still am in awe of the Drakh as a concept.
 
2021-10-24 2:16:52 PM  
Gotta love theocracy. Create a violent, oppressive regime based on outdated dogma, kill a bunch of people to gain power, tell everyone who's left but not on board to GTFO under penalty of death, fark everything up completely, then cry for help from the people you openly hate.

Yes, I know that's a simplification.

The US being there for 20 years didn't change a damn thing. Ugh, just ugh.
 
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