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(SanDiego UnionTribune)   Hours before the fatal shooting on the set of Rust, the Union workers had been replaced for complaining about the lack of safety and poor working conditions   (sandiegouniontribune.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Alec Baldwin, Filmmaking, Film director, Film, Film crew, Cinematographer, Cinematography, Member of Parliament  
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1713 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 22 Oct 2021 at 10:45 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-22 7:27:35 PM  
Lot of questions.
Probably have to wait for a streaming movie about it.
If they can make it without killing anybody.

Hey. Got any actors that kinda, sorta look like Alex Baldwin that might have a little acting experience and a SAG card?
 
2021-10-22 7:33:18 PM  
You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2021-10-22 7:55:23 PM  

markie_farkie: My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


Well that's not exactly a cut from Occam's Razor... good luck to your money!
 
2021-10-22 8:22:01 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


If they had more than two cameras I would be shocked. This is a shoestring production. One camera is pretty standard.
 
2021-10-22 8:31:33 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


THIS

I mean, the statue of Ray Charles could see that happening.
 
2021-10-22 8:53:55 PM  
No mention of a prop master or armored. Director said it was safe. Baldwin didn't check. Firearm was pointed at Halyden.

Lots of failure steps beyond someone loading a live round
 
2021-10-22 9:50:28 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


I'd watch that movie. Seriously, though, if I was in that union this is all the PR you need to make sure they keep hiring you in the future. They fired the union staff and six hours later the star shoots and kills a DP? You can't buy press like that.
 
2021-10-22 10:51:00 PM  
If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?
 
2021-10-22 10:55:52 PM  
You point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you are responsible for the result. Ignorance is not an excuse, neither is anyone else telling you it's safe. It's in your hands, it's on your hands.
 
2021-10-22 10:56:37 PM  
Looks like we got that remake of The Crow, after all.

Seriously. I'd be willing to place money that the exact same thing happened. Inexperienced, cut budget prop master makes cheap dummy rounds for close-up shots by emptying regular bullets of their powder, but left the primer intact. Gun with loaded dummies gets used in a close shot scene, primer goes off and pops the bullet into the barrel. Gun doesn't get cleaned between takes. Gun loaded with blanks for action scenes. Blank goes off, shoots bullet in barel at near full force.
 
2021-10-22 10:58:33 PM  

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?



This is what I've been trying to explain.

"It's not the actor's fault, it's the producer's fault!"

Fark user image
 
2021-10-22 10:59:22 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


Nope.
 
2021-10-22 11:02:27 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


Or a sexual harassment suit that was about to happen. It's Hollywood.
 
2021-10-22 11:04:15 PM  
"The gun was one of three that the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation​a​l/sheriff-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-on-mo​vie-set-killing-woman/2021/10/22/2d323​656-3320-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.​html

Most in-depth info I've seen so far.
 
2021-10-22 11:06:03 PM  

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?


Sure.  The same way that CEOs take the brunt of the impact when corporations screw up.  It's always a clean sweep of the boardroom boys when bad news comes around.
 
2021-10-22 11:07:19 PM  

vudukungfu: Lot of questions.
Probably have to wait for a streaming movie about it.
If they can make it without killing anybody.

Hey. Got any actors that kinda, sorta look like Alex Baldwin that might have a little acting experience and a SAG card?


His brothers
 
2021-10-22 11:07:37 PM  

Billy Liar: Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?

Sure.  The same way that CEOs take the brunt of the impact when corporations screw up.  It's always a clean sweep of the boardroom boys when bad news comes around.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Well yes, but when a CEO screws up, they don't kill the DP!
 
2021-10-22 11:08:05 PM  
Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.
 
2021-10-22 11:08:15 PM  

Lsherm: markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.

I'd watch that movie. Seriously, though, if I was in that union this is all the PR you need to make sure they keep hiring you in the future. They fired the union staff and six hours later the star shoots and kills a DP? You can't buy press like that.


No doubt. If there was ever a win in the PR department for the production union, you're looking at it. Had to come at the cost of someones life unfortunately but everything they've been biatching about is wrapped in to this story.
 
2021-10-22 11:09:57 PM  
Sounds like they weren't working under very safe conditions before if the rumors of mistakes being made before they replaced the crew are true.
 
2021-10-22 11:11:00 PM  

greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.


So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.
 
2021-10-22 11:12:17 PM  
Ever since the crow tragedy it has been standard procedure to have 2 identical guns one with no firing pin for close ups with fake ammo and one for firing blanks that won't take real ammo. If this was not the case someone cut corners to save money and people died.
 
2021-10-22 11:12:37 PM  

markie_farkie: My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.



I'd be surprised if that were the case.  Safety is one of the big issues that the unions raised during the strike.

I'm a covid officer for film and TV sets and producers are uniformly contemptuous of safety protocols.  The crews' reports of lax set safety, and then getting fired for voicing those complaints, ring very true.  When you hire nonunion, you're gambling with inexperienced, incompetent, indifferent crew members.
 
2021-10-22 11:13:26 PM  

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?


He is one of the producers, but I think he is more of a executive producer. He was against production replacing the entire crew. I heard the assistant director is supposed to be in charge of safety on set.
 
2021-10-22 11:13:26 PM  

Boojum2k: You point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you are responsible for the result. Ignorance is not an excuse, neither is anyone else telling you it's safe. It's in your hands, it's on your hands.


Every single time I pick up a gun I slide it open to check if it's loaded. Every, Single. Time. My gun, your gun, guns in a store. Every. Single. Time. I'm not blaming anyone, but damn, this was a preventable tragedy.
 
2021-10-22 11:13:34 PM  

Nick el Ass: Sounds like they weren't working under very safe conditions before if the rumors of mistakes being made before they replaced the crew are true.


That was apparently part of the dispute. Sounds like they fired the experts when those experts said they were being unsafe and brought in scabs instead.
 
2021-10-22 11:13:57 PM  

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?


No
It means he put up money
 
2021-10-22 11:17:49 PM  

CFitzsimmons: Boojum2k: You point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you are responsible for the result. Ignorance is not an excuse, neither is anyone else telling you it's safe. It's in your hands, it's on your hands.

Every single time I pick up a gun I slide it open to check if it's loaded. Every, Single. Time. My gun, your gun, guns in a store. Every. Single. Time. I'm not blaming anyone, but damn, this was a preventable tragedy.


Props to History did a bunch of videos on the matter. He defended Baldwin no checking the gun, because that is not standard procedure. He doesn't have enough time to check, because they shoot with a prop gun that can't fire, to a gun that can fire blanks. So there is a cut between the two gun, and they try to do it as fast a possible. Someone farked up, but it really appears Baldwin is not at fault on it.

https://www.tiktok.com/@propstohistor​y​?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Here are some of his videos. He did several of them. Someone posted his videos from the first thread about this.
 
2021-10-22 11:19:30 PM  

Boojum2k: Nick el Ass: Sounds like they weren't working under very safe conditions before if the rumors of mistakes being made before they replaced the crew are true.

That was apparently part of the dispute. Sounds like they fired the experts when those experts said they were being unsafe and brought in scabs instead.


Thank you.  No offense to the individuals who ended up doing the work, but we should absolutely be using the word 'scabs' when we discuss this.
 
2021-10-22 11:19:49 PM  

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?


Depends if he was the line producer on set.
Some actors that are listed as producers are heavily involved in running the set. Tom Cruise and Clint Eastwood come to mind.

Other times, actors get a producer credit for other things, like acquiring the source material for an adaptation or helping raise financing. Basically, being involved in pre-production and post-production.

Or they take a credit in lieu of not getting paid their normal salary.
 
2021-10-22 11:20:14 PM  

Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.


Except this is a movie and fake guns get shot a real people quite often, you rely on your armorer to make it safe. I haven't kept up with this very closely but my guess is he was doing the fire directly at the camera trope. So he just knows procedures have been followed the gun was declared safe and someone said action.
 
2021-10-22 11:22:11 PM  

Shakes999: No doubt. If there was ever a win in the PR department for the production union, you're looking at it. Had to come at the cost of someones life unfortunately but everything they've been biatching about is wrapped in to this story.


I gathered that from the union pushing the story.

Texas Gabe: If Alec Baldwin is the producer, isn't he the captain of the ship and therefore ultimately accountable for everyone's safety and well-being on set?


I think he's the EXECUTIVE producer. That means the blame really lies with the people under him. That's how movies work.
 
2021-10-22 11:22:12 PM  

Midrissa: "The gun was one of three that the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nationa​l/sheriff-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-on-mo​vie-set-killing-woman/2021/10/22/2d323​656-3320-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.​html

Most in-depth info I've seen so far.


Holy Fark...

What in the Goddamn Hell were actual, live farking rounds doing within 5 miles of a movie set? Seriously, if this is what happened, there needs to be some negligent homicide charges here.
 
2021-10-22 11:23:28 PM  
Soooooo.... why are there even live rounds on a movie shoot? There should be no live rounds.
 
2021-10-22 11:24:23 PM  

Tom_Slick: Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.

Except this is a movie and fake guns get shot a real people quite often, you rely on your armorer to make it safe. I haven't kept up with this very closely but my guess is he was doing the fire directly at the camera trope. So he just knows procedures have been followed the gun was declared safe and someone said action.


Nope. Read up on what a professional had to say about it.
Here on Fark.
 
2021-10-22 11:27:57 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


Yes, they'd have thought the gun that would be aimed at people would harmlessly scare them.

What in the world?
 
2021-10-22 11:27:59 PM  

Midrissa: "The gun was one of three that the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nationa​l/sheriff-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-on-mo​vie-set-killing-woman/2021/10/22/2d323​656-3320-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.​html

Most in-depth info I've seen so far.


Did the armorer know the assistant director took the gun from her station? I thought standard procedure was the armorer handling the gun first? Why did the armorer bring live rounds? All this could have been avoided.
 
2021-10-22 11:30:38 PM  

Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.


That's totally reasonable. When filming a movie, in which you are using prop guns, you are completely responsible if the person in charge of handling said prop guns hands you a gun and says it's a prop gun.

It makes complete sense as long as you don't think about it.
 
2021-10-22 11:31:14 PM  

Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.


Also no, unless there is some information being withheld he's not going to be held legally liable. Stop talking out of your ass.
 
2021-10-22 11:31:43 PM  

CFitzsimmons: Boojum2k: You point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you are responsible for the result. Ignorance is not an excuse, neither is anyone else telling you it's safe. It's in your hands, it's on your hands.

Every single time I pick up a gun I slide it open to check if it's loaded. Every, Single. Time. My gun, your gun, guns in a store. Every. Single. Time. I'm not blaming anyone, but damn, this was a preventable tragedy.


It would be loaded with a blank..
 
2021-10-22 11:33:15 PM  

Jaesop: Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.

Also no, unless there is some information being withheld he's not going to be held legally liable. Stop talking out of your ass.


He's rich. Of course he won't be held criminally responsible despite his negligence killing someone.

But hopefully he'll be a lot less rich once the wrongful death lawsuit rips him a new one.
 
2021-10-22 11:33:27 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Midrissa: "The gun was one of three that the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nationa​l/sheriff-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-on-mo​vie-set-killing-woman/2021/10/22/2d323​656-3320-11ec-8036-7db255bff176_story.​html

Most in-depth info I've seen so far.

Holy Fark...

What in the Goddamn Hell were actual, live farking rounds doing within 5 miles of a movie set? Seriously, if this is what happened, there needs to be some negligent homicide charges here.


Just watching the linked Props to History video, that's a major break of safety protocols. The Armorer / Prop Master is the only person who should handle the guns and is the person who swaps out the rubber gun for the stunt gun and back. This means they know which guns are which and what they are loaded with. The AD grabbing a gun off the Armorer's cart broke that protocol since there were three guns (going to guess one was loaded with blanks, one with dummy rounds, and the third had the live rounds). The AD made the terrible 1/3 pick of the gun loaded with live ammunition. This is where the AD is the person most likely to be screwed. He shouldn't have handled the gun at all. The armorer will be facing questions about why there was a gun loaded with live ammunition on set at all. The best guess I have is they planned to do some shots using a remote-controlled camera and the gun with live ammunition because neither blanks nor dummy rounds quite imitate a real firing. The live gun should have been nowhere near the two safe prop guns.
 
2021-10-22 11:34:02 PM  

vudukungfu: Lot of questions.
Probably have to wait for a streaming movie about it.
If they can make it without killing anybody.

Hey. Got any actors that kinda, sorta look like Alex Baldwin that might have a little acting experience and a SAG card?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William​_​Baldwin
 
2021-10-22 11:34:08 PM  

AeAe: Soooooo.... why are there even live rounds on a movie shoot? There should be no live rounds.


We had a thread about this yesterday:

https://www.fark.com/comments/1185712​3​/It-looks-like-a-Brandon-Lee-happened-​in-Alec-Baldwins-latest-film

Search for an excellent post from a Farker named FightDirector and he explains it very well. It's gotta be one of the top 10 posts I've seen on Fark in 20 years.

/FightDirector, I'm not calling you out negatively! I know it's against the rules, but it was such an awesome post and related to this question I had to!
 
2021-10-22 11:36:20 PM  

Lsherm: Shakes999: No doubt. If there was ever a win in the PR department for the production union, you're looking at it. Had to come at the cost of someones life unfortunately but everything they've been biatching about is wrapped in to this story.

I gathered that from the union pushing the story.


Oh cool. Well fark off then.
 
2021-10-22 11:38:39 PM  

Jaesop: Boojum2k: greentea1985: Apparently the Assistant Director is getting the blame, because the AD handed the gun to Baldwin and shouted that it was a cold gun. The AD was in charge of double-checking the prop guns prepared by the armorer. The armourer and AD are the most screwed.

So the argument is that Alex Baldwin is legally incompetent or a child?

Because anyone else is responsible for the results of firing a gun they are holding. Legally and morally.

That's totally reasonable. When filming a movie, in which you are using prop guns, you are completely responsible if the person in charge of handling said prop guns hands you a gun and says it's a prop gun.

It makes complete sense as long as you don't think about it.


Prop guns capable of being fired are never pointed directly at anyone, for this exact reason.

Go read the link I posted, someone in the business explaining exactly how Baldwin farked up here.

Unless again the claim is Alec Baldwin is too incompetent to tell the difference between a rubber prop and a working prop gun.
 
2021-10-22 11:40:16 PM  

Shakes999: Lsherm: Shakes999: No doubt. If there was ever a win in the PR department for the production union, you're looking at it. Had to come at the cost of someones life unfortunately but everything they've been biatching about is wrapped in to this story.

I gathered that from the union pushing the story.

Oh cool. Well fark off then.


Well they were. They released their own press release about it and then provided official statements about them being dismissed. I only know it was six hours after they were walked off the lot because they offered up the information. What else would you call it? It's not like this is a "found" story.
 
2021-10-22 11:40:53 PM  

Lsherm: AeAe: Soooooo.... why are there even live rounds on a movie shoot? There should be no live rounds.

We had a thread about this yesterday:

https://www.fark.com/comments/11857123​/It-looks-like-a-Brandon-Lee-happened-​in-Alec-Baldwins-latest-film

Search for an excellent post from a Farker named FightDirector and he explains it very well. It's gotta be one of the top 10 posts I've seen on Fark in 20 years.

/FightDirector, I'm not calling you out negatively! I know it's against the rules, but it was such an awesome post and related to this question I had to!


https://fark.com/11857123/142982308

That's the direct link to his comment.
 
2021-10-22 11:46:32 PM  

Boojum2k: Lsherm: AeAe: Soooooo.... why are there even live rounds on a movie shoot? There should be no live rounds.

We had a thread about this yesterday:

https://www.fark.com/comments/11857123​/It-looks-like-a-Brandon-Lee-happened-​in-Alec-Baldwins-latest-film

Search for an excellent post from a Farker named FightDirector and he explains it very well. It's gotta be one of the top 10 posts I've seen on Fark in 20 years.

/FightDirector, I'm not calling you out negatively! I know it's against the rules, but it was such an awesome post and related to this question I had to!

https://fark.com/11857123/142982308

That's the direct link to his comment.


How do you link to comments?
 
2021-10-22 11:46:54 PM  

markie_farkie: You just know there has to be footage of the horrific scene. Possibly several angles, too.

My money's on one of the disgruntled ones swapping out the round, thinking it would harmlessly scare the shiat out of everyone and make them rethink safety protocols.


I think it was an episode of Columbo.
 
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