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(Guardian)   Subby and Joe Biden both want to end the filibuster, and have an equal amount of power to do so   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: PSA, United States Senate, Joe Biden, Senate filibuster, Republican Party, Barack Obama, Democratic Party, CNN town hall, Republican intransigence  
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580 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Oct 2021 at 8:45 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-22 3:18:28 PM  
At least Biden can talk to the people who have the power.  I cannot even get an answer from my senator or representive
 
2021-10-22 3:54:29 PM  
Restore the talking filibuster.
 
2021-10-22 6:12:14 PM  
IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.
 
2021-10-22 6:22:39 PM  

kkinnison: At least Biden can talk to the people who have the power.  I cannot even get an answer from my senator or representive


They respond only to contributors.

BIG contributors.
 
2021-10-22 8:49:13 PM  

kkinnison: At least Biden can talk to the people who have the power.  I cannot even get an answer from my senator or representive


You have better luck getting an answer from Santa or the Easter Bunny unless you're a millionaire.
 
JJR
2021-10-22 8:49:22 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 8:49:27 PM  

aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.


SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.


Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

Filibuster: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
Youtube 3y1QA6OeAcQ
 
2021-10-22 8:50:43 PM  

JJR: [Fark user image image 422x750]


Let's go, Brandon?
 
2021-10-22 8:50:49 PM  
Biden has the power to get on camera and say "Hey voters, primary these farkers in the next election. They suck and they are blocking me from helping you". The bully pulpit is the President's greatest asset. Political peer pressure works.

The President is not just a job for some dude to sit back and wait for paperwork to arrive at his desk.
 
2021-10-22 8:52:28 PM  
The problem isn't the filibuster. It's actually advantageous to Democrats over time because the Senate is intentionally rigged in favor of rural conservatives. It was designed that way to give them an outsized, fundamentally undemocratic level of power over the majority of citizens. As an example, if Democrats get 52% of the vote in the next election, they will lose the Senate 57-43.

The problem is the Senate itself. It's a stupid institution that was effectively a straight-up bribe to get rural conservative slave-holding states to join the union, because they knew they didn't bring enough to the table by population or economic contribution to have any power otherwise. A bribe that has not panned out, and I would be perfectly fine dismantling even if it means breaking up the country.

Hell, even the UK, who's House of Lords was the inspiration for having an "upper chamber" structured around the absurd and undemocratic idea of "land voting" in the first place, long ago figured out how stupid that was and moved to all but eliminate their power. The US should do the same.
 
2021-10-22 8:52:55 PM  
Hopefully this statement is some political maneuvering to get something, anything done. The clock is ticking.
 
2021-10-22 8:53:20 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.

Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

[YouTube video: Filibuster: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver]


Yes. Until his vocal chords bleed and he has to gargle with epsom salt and he loses his voice permanently.
 
2021-10-22 8:55:14 PM  
The problem is that neither Sinema or Manchin are willing to budge on the filibuster and I'm fairly certain that at least a handful of Senators that have indicated a willingness to look at at least limiting the filibuster would change their tune if those two were to suddenly come around.
 
2021-10-22 8:55:32 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.


I'm ok with that.  As long as they're talking, they can filibuster.  If they're not saying anything, then they're done and things can move on.  The fact that they're lazy bastards means that the frequency of filibustering would likely decrease.  Right now, all they have to do is send an email to say they're filibustering.  THAT'S IT.  And they don't even have to say why.  Fark that.  If you want to halt a piece of legislation, work for it.  Otherwise, STFU and GBTW.
 
2021-10-22 8:57:13 PM  

chipaku: Biden has the power to get on camera and say "Hey voters, primary these farkers in the next election. They suck and they are blocking me from helping you". The bully pulpit is the President's greatest asset. Political peer pressure works.

The President is not just a job for some dude to sit back and wait for paperwork to arrive at his desk.


The difficulty, of course, is that the people who are represented by those obstructing him don't give a Fark what he has to say. So while his bully pulpit might rally the base in NYC or California, it just further alienates the WV voter.
 
2021-10-22 9:02:20 PM  

Shaggy_C: The difficulty, of course, is that the people who are represented by those obstructing him don't give a Fark what he has to say. So while his bully pulpit might rally the base in NYC or California, it just further alienates the WV voter.


It still forces party representatives in that state to get up and say on the record why they agree/disagree with the president. When Bernie Sanders has to get an op-ed in a WV newspaper to light a fire under Manchins ass, it only highlights what a coward Biden is.
 
2021-10-22 9:02:27 PM  
Yeah, not abolishing the filibuster is one thing but if Biden doesn't disband the Supreme Court by Monday, I'm never voting for a Democrat again.
 
2021-10-22 9:02:40 PM  
Trump proved you can do whatever the f*ck you want as president. There's no excuse for this "oh but he doesn't have any power because of the rules" bullsh*t.
 
2021-10-22 9:04:48 PM  

chipaku: Biden has the power to get on camera and say "Hey voters, primary these farkers in the next election. They suck and they are blocking me from helping you". The bully pulpit is the President's greatest asset. Political peer pressure works.

The President is not just a job for some dude to sit back and wait for paperwork to arrive at his desk.


At least in the case of WV, Biden coming out against Manchin has improved Manchin's polling every time.
 
2021-10-22 9:10:50 PM  

bluejeansonfire: Trump proved you can do whatever the f*ck you want as president. There's no excuse for this "oh but he doesn't have any power because of the rules" bullsh*t.


The hell are you smoking? Donald Trump didn't get done half of what he actually wanted.

PoC freely walked the streets and languages other than English were still heard in public all throughout his presidency.
 
2021-10-22 9:11:47 PM  

aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.


This.  You should not be able to literally phone it in, make them work for it.  It shouldn't even be a thing, but if there can be compromise, change the rule.
 
2021-10-22 9:19:10 PM  

chipaku: It still forces party representatives in that state to get up and say on the record why they agree/disagree with the president. When Bernie Sanders has to get an op-ed in a WV newspaper to light a fire under Manchins ass, it only highlights what a coward Biden is.


So...it makes some relatively unknown party officials whose greatest accomplishment is retaining a senate seat feel uncomfortable? Is that an end in and of itself, or do you expect that some change would come from it?

I don't think Biden is a coward. He's a pragmatist. Give Manchin what he wants, pass the bill, and take the win. We've wasted enough time on this as Biden's approval rating has been dropping like a stone.
 
2021-10-22 9:20:21 PM  

Cafe Threads: kkinnison: At least Biden can talk to the people who have the power.  I cannot even get an answer from my senator or representive

They respond only to contributors.

BIG contributors.


What if you chat them up in the restroom?

pyxis.nymag.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 9:20:26 PM  
I imagine Biden is desperate enough to grasp at just about any straw at this point.
 
2021-10-22 9:20:27 PM  

serfdood: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

This.  You should not be able to literally phone it in, make them work for it.  It shouldn't even be a thing, but if there can be compromise, change the rule.


There is a talking filibuster. You should be arguing about reforming quorum rules, which is far more esoteric but would make a much bigger impact. Make it 50+1 votes to end debate.
 
2021-10-22 9:20:49 PM  

bluejeansonfire: Trump proved you can do whatever the f*ck you want as president. There's no excuse for this "oh but he doesn't have any power because of the rules" bullsh*t.


No he didnt.

Trump not currently considered president by anyone with any meaningfull actionable position to validate otherwise is proof the president isnt considered absolute power in the u.s.

He wanted it, he did not get it.
 
2021-10-22 9:20:50 PM  

Avigdore: At least in the case of WV, Biden coming out against Manchin has improved Manchin's polling every time.


Then Biden needs to get on a plane to WV and say "hey dumbasses, you NEED this faking bill to pass, heres how this bill will benefit you, and here's why Manchin is a dumbfark".

He might end up losing that battle, but it gives Dems around the country something to rally around and possibly making some gains in 2022 so we won't have to be held hostage by WV. He needs to get out there and play offense, dominate the news cycle and the messaging instead of playing defense all the time.

He should have done this shiat from Day 1, instead of waiting until his poll numbers went underwater.
 
2021-10-22 9:22:33 PM  

chipaku: Avigdore: At least in the case of WV, Biden coming out against Manchin has improved Manchin's polling every time.

Then Biden needs to get on a plane to WV and say "hey dumbasses, you NEED this faking bill to pass, heres how this bill will benefit you, and here's why Manchin is a dumbfark".

He might end up losing that battle, but it gives Dems around the country something to rally around and possibly making some gains in 2022 so we won't have to be held hostage by WV. He needs to get out there and play offense, dominate the news cycle and the messaging instead of playing defense all the time.

He should have done this shiat from Day 1, instead of waiting until his poll numbers went underwater.


Over 80% of West Virginians want the $3.5 trillion budget Manchin has been blocking.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2​0​21/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spen​ding-plan-popular
 
2021-10-22 9:26:03 PM  

Shaggy_C: Give Manchin what he wants, pass the bill, and take the win.


He tried that. Manchin only kept demanding more and pushing everyone to the brink. Playing nice was a huge mistake, Biden should have known better. He was weak, plain and simple.
 
2021-10-22 9:28:47 PM  

JJR: [Fark user image image 422x750]


This is for you then.

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 9:31:22 PM  

aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.


No. This is a terrible idea.
 
2021-10-22 9:33:01 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.

Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

[YouTube video: Filibuster: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver]


Why does no one seem to get this? Not only that, but all Senate business was halted while it happened. Literally nothing else could be accomplished until the damn filibuster grandstanding ended.

Did someone produce an example of a federal Senate Democrat successfully blocking Republican legislation using the filibuster? I might have missed it, but I don't recall a single example.
 
2021-10-22 9:37:00 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.

Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/3y1QA6Oe​AcQ]


I more imagined forcing them to go through a Wendy Davis style ordeal every time they want to filibuster. I bet it would rarely be used.  She talked for 13 hours, and had a catheter installed that morning because she wasn't allowed bathroom breaks.
 
2021-10-22 9:37:17 PM  

chipaku: Shaggy_C: Give Manchin what he wants, pass the bill, and take the win.

He tried that. Manchin only kept demanding more and pushing everyone to the brink. Playing nice was a huge mistake, Biden should have known better. He was weak, plain and simple.


Manchin says he'll do $1.5 trillion. Let's roll with it.

I'm interested to understand what a "strong" Biden would have done in your world. Some Mean Tweets maybe? Psaki Bombs? I've heard on Fark those are reasonable substitutes for actually getting things done, but I'm not sure the majority of Amurca agrees.
 
2021-10-22 9:37:50 PM  
Bith Set Me Up:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2​0​21/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spen​ding-plan-popular

I'd love to see the actual data on that polling. The article mentions people supportive of the Child tax credit, but claim the whole bill is popular. Since the polling company is WorkMoney ...and as you can see by their site, they aren't a non-biased source for that info. https://www.workmoney.org/, and they didn't use anything resembling a reasonable sample group...from your article: WorkMoney surveyed more than 50,000 of its 2 million members nationwide. It's not a reputable poll.

If you've actually got any info on that polling other than that link, I'd love to see it.
 
2021-10-22 9:43:17 PM  

recondite cetacean: chipaku: Biden has the power to get on camera and say "Hey voters, primary these farkers in the next election. They suck and they are blocking me from helping you". The bully pulpit is the President's greatest asset. Political peer pressure works.

The President is not just a job for some dude to sit back and wait for paperwork to arrive at his desk.

You get a Zooey pic.

[Fark user image image 700x1011]


I have no clue why this is happening now but thank you for your service
 
2021-10-22 9:43:33 PM  
We need to change the word back to flee-booter.
 
2021-10-22 9:46:50 PM  

bluejeansonfire: Trump proved you can do whatever the f*ck you want as president. There's no excuse for this "oh but he doesn't have any power because of the rules" bullsh*t.


As I've said before, Trump unilaterally created tariffs on China, which is reserved for Congress. Joe should just start making rules. Fark it.
 
2021-10-22 9:47:08 PM  

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.


comb.ioView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 9:49:54 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Over 80% of West Virginians want the $3.5 trillion budget Manchin has been blocking


That is a false claim. A true claim might be: 'Over 80% of WorkMoney members in West Virginia want the $3.5T bill', since WorkMoney members were the only people polled.
 
2021-10-22 9:50:58 PM  

chipaku: Biden has the power to get on camera and say "Hey voters, primary these farkers in the next election. They suck and they are blocking me from helping you". The bully pulpit is the President's greatest asset. Political peer pressure works.

The President is not just a job for some dude to sit back and wait for paperwork to arrive at his desk.


Neither of them are up for reelection until 2024.
 
2021-10-22 9:51:02 PM  

aleister_greynight: Bith Set Me Up: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster.  You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something.  You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.

Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/3y1QA6Oe​AcQ]

I more imagined forcing them to go through a Wendy Davis style ordeal every time they want to filibuster. I bet it would rarely be used.  She talked for 13 hours, and had a catheter installed that morning because she wasn't allowed bathroom breaks.


And she was ultimately unsuccessful.
 
2021-10-22 9:53:25 PM  

jaerik: The problem isn't the filibuster. It's actually advantageous to Democrats over time because the Senate is intentionally rigged in favor of rural conservatives. It was designed that way to give them an outsized, fundamentally undemocratic level of power over the majority of citizens. As an example, if Democrats get 52% of the vote in the next election, they will lose the Senate 57-43.

The problem is the Senate itself. It's a stupid institution that was effectively a straight-up bribe to get rural conservative slave-holding states to join the union, because they knew they didn't bring enough to the table by population or economic contribution to have any power otherwise. A bribe that has not panned out, and I would be perfectly fine dismantling even if it means breaking up the country.

Hell, even the UK, who's House of Lords was the inspiration for having an "upper chamber" structured around the absurd and undemocratic idea of "land voting" in the first place, long ago figured out how stupid that was and moved to all but eliminate their power. The US should do the same.


You know how I know that you never read anything about the Constitutional Convention?
 
2021-10-22 9:54:16 PM  
If Biden had come out, day one, and said it was time for Democrats to end the filibuster - that Republicans had proven since 2008 that they absolutely had no interest in good faith compromise. That no legislation of note would pass without ending the undemocratic addition to Constitution designed to protect white supremacy. That any Democrat standing in the way of such legislation was a traitor and a coward, more concerned with pleasing Republicans than doing the work necessary to save the country - it might have happened,

But doing so now, when his party has proven itself incapable of governing or advancing their agenda, after a Democratic Senator has already threatened to defect to Republicans, just comes off as craven.

You're ten months too late Joe.
 
2021-10-22 10:24:32 PM  

SplittingAces: Yeah, not abolishing the filibuster is one thing but if Biden doesn't disband the Supreme Court by Monday, I'm never voting for a Democrat again.


RON PAUL
 
2021-10-22 10:25:42 PM  

kkinnison: At least Biden can talk to the people who have the power.  I cannot even get an answer from my senator or representive


You think that's bad? Both of my Senators are evil!
 
2021-10-22 10:55:05 PM  
After Biden's embarrassing Town Hall "performance" I don't think he even knows what a filibuster is!

"Cable News Ratings Thursday, October 21: CNN's Biden Town Hall a Dud, Tucker and Hannity More Than Double President's Audience"

https://www.mediaite.com/daily-rating​s​/cable-news-ratings-thursday-october-2​1-cnns-biden-town-hall-a-dud-tucker-an​d-hannity-more-than-double-presidents-​audience/

And no wonder, who wants to watch a train wreck in progress?


https://youtu.be/g9h2ZB_8oLA

But don't worry he'll run off to Delaware again this weekend instead of going to witness the devastation he's wrought at the border.
 
2021-10-22 10:56:04 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: chipaku: Avigdore: At least in the case of WV, Biden coming out against Manchin has improved Manchin's polling every time.

Then Biden needs to get on a plane to WV and say "hey dumbasses, you NEED this faking bill to pass, heres how this bill will benefit you, and here's why Manchin is a dumbfark".

He might end up losing that battle, but it gives Dems around the country something to rally around and possibly making some gains in 2022 so we won't have to be held hostage by WV. He needs to get out there and play offense, dominate the news cycle and the messaging instead of playing defense all the time.

He should have done this shiat from Day 1, instead of waiting until his poll numbers went underwater.

Over 80% of West Virginians want the $3.5 trillion budget Manchin has been blocking.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/20​21/sep/28/west-virginia-joe-biden-spen​ding-plan-popular


That's not likely to be true, of Manchin would be severely damaging himself with his obstruction. There's no evidence he's doing that, at least not in the eyes of West Virginians.
 
2021-10-22 11:07:53 PM  

KCinPA: And no wonder, who wants to watch a train wreck in progress?


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 11:09:12 PM  

austerity101: Bith Set Me Up: aleister_greynight: Restore the talking filibuster.

SpaceyCat: IMO, if they want to keep the filibuster, they restore the requirements to filibuster. You can't just send an email saying that you're filibustering something. You have to DO IT, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington type thing.

Wanna sit through Ted Cruz reading Dr. Seuss again? That's what preserving the filibuster means.

[YouTube video: Filibuster: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver]

Why does no one seem to get this? Not only that, but all Senate business was halted while it happened. Literally nothing else could be accomplished until the damn filibuster grandstanding ended.


That's a feature, not a bug. (It's all grandstanding anyways.)

If your pet issue is so important that you can go all Mr. Smith Goes To Washington about it and convince the votersdonors with your rhetoric that they call their Senatorsthreaten to withhold donations with the majesty of your rhetoric, go for it!

If your pet issue is so even more important than that that you can sit there and read Dr. Seuss, or the phone book, or every comment in a Fark poltab thread, and still convince the donor class to demand that the Senate get off its ass and give you what you want just to shut you up, that's still a win.

Because both of those options - high rhetoric worthy of the "greatest deliberative chamber in the history of the world", and the equivalent of 4chan shiatposting from the floor of the Senate - also carry with them a risk.

If you take the high road, you might be regarded as Mr. Smith who went to Washington, and you might be regarded as the Senator who was so dumb he asked if the Forest Service could alter the moon's orbit. (Maybe a little bit of both!)

If you take the low road, you might be regarded as the Senator who talked themselves hoarse but eventually got a concession or ran out the clock on some legislative deadline and accomplished the mission, or you might be regarded as a jackass who read Dr. Seuss into the record. (Maybe a little bit of both!)

Whether they take the high or low road, one of two things will happen:

Either it's funny for the first few hours, boring for the next 12 hours, and everybody on either side of the issue gives them what they want to shut them up after 72 hours, and the filibustering politician walks away with a real victory, or at least a symbolic victory, a fat war chest for the next campaign season, and eyes on a committee seat.

Or maybe it's funny for the first few hours, boring for the next 12 hours, and everybody on either side of the issue would rather burn the planet to ashes than give that droning farkwit anything after the third day, and the filibustering politician walks away with his or her political career in tatters.

The point is that with a talking filibuster, there is an element of political risk, and that element cannot be focus-grouped away until the politician actually takes that risk. There is no way for anyone either in the filibustering party or in the majority party can predict in advance how the public (and the donor class) will respond to an actual talking filibuster.

Peace or Utter Destruction
Youtube yKmUd0zHW4w


A talking filibuster brings back the horrors of actual political risk to an incumbent.

Perhaps, when actually faced with the risk of looking like a jackass in front of 360,000,000 people (and tens of thousands of donors!) politicians - regardless of how strong their hatreds - will find an alternative.
 
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