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(NPR)   We're rolling coal again. We are the a-holes doing it wrong   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Coal, America's coal, U.S. coal, recent years, Biden administration, electricity generation, coal mines, Powder River Basin  
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2084 clicks; posted to Business » and Politics » on 22 Oct 2021 at 9:50 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-22 10:11:32 AM  
Junkies call this "pounding your cottons".
 
2021-10-22 10:19:28 AM  
"Our hope is maybe we've hit the bottom," he says, "and what we see coming is maybe ... that the coal demand is going to be maybe steady."

If the idiot saying this right, we're all farked, including said idiot.
 
2021-10-22 10:26:10 AM  
Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.
 
2021-10-22 10:34:37 AM  

jso2897: Junkies call this "pounding your cottons".


We would roll turds if the price was right
 
2021-10-22 10:39:25 AM  

jso2897: Junkies call this "pounding your cottons".


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 10:41:36 AM  

LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.


When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.
 
2021-10-22 10:45:20 AM  
It's a post-pandemic burp, the energy-sector equivalent of a dead cat bounce. Coal will continue its steady decline and everyone knows it.
 
2021-10-22 10:54:34 AM  
What exactly are the use cases for coal these days?

Outside of steel production (do you still need coke to make steel)
 
2021-10-22 11:02:15 AM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 11:09:16 AM  
There is still, what, a few trillion dollars worth of fossil fuels in the ground? The people who control that ARE NOT going to give it up unless they're forced to.
 
2021-10-22 11:11:54 AM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?


Pollution is tasty!
 
2021-10-22 11:34:19 AM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.


last time I ate meat was 11 years ago.  it's something I guess.
 
2021-10-22 11:54:31 AM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.


-I actually stopped eating red meat and pork, and I've cut down on chicken and fish (lost 6 pounds too)
-I moved closer to work and bought a more fuel-efficient car (I'd buy a Tesla but I detest Elon Musk)
-I am bad about electricity. I set my a/c very cold at night. I should get better about it, but I probably won't.

I'm doing what I can, but it's impossible to move to a 100% sustainable lifestyle without changes to our infrastructure.
 
2021-10-22 11:59:47 AM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

-I actually stopped eating red meat and pork, and I've cut down on chicken and fish (lost 6 pounds too)
-I moved closer to work and bought a more fuel-efficient car (I'd buy a Tesla but I detest Elon Musk)
-I am bad about electricity. I set my a/c very cold at night. I should get better about it, but I probably won't.

I'm doing what I can, but it's impossible to move to a 100% sustainable lifestyle without changes to our infrastructure.


We'd also need significant changes to the cost of things. Even with the rise of working from home, most of us need a car to drive to work. And I looked at electric and hybrid cars during my last car-buying time and they were more expensive to the point of being a nonstarter for my budget.

Pointing the finger for anyone for using electricity is just disingenuous to the point of being laughable.
 
2021-10-22 12:44:19 PM  

Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]


He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.
 
2021-10-22 12:57:08 PM  

Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.


Yep, not wrong, just needs to say it more inclusively as we're mostly all choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. If you need to work to feed and house yourself, you are probably part of the problem, but the alternative is to just die, so, yeah.
 
2021-10-22 1:06:11 PM  

Gubbo: What exactly are the use cases for coal these days?

Outside of steel production (do you still need coke to make steel)


Same uses as always. There are alternatives but not everyone can afford or even access those alternatives. The future is going to be green we are just moving there gradually which is what we've done with all big societal changes.
 
2021-10-22 1:21:22 PM  
The Russians are jacking around the price of natural gas making Europe buy more from America. Natural gas prices are temporarily higher than coal so coal is once again being used in power plants. By Spring natural gas prices will drop again and coal will be right back where it was. Unless the Russians keep jacking around.

Why does everyone keep telling me to quit talking about the Russians?
 
2021-10-22 1:24:17 PM  

Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.


Or is it the opposite: Polluting corporations are trying to put the blame on the shoulders of the individuals instead of themselves. We're all snapping at each other for using electricity while they're having laws rolled back to dump mining chemicals directly in streams.
 
2021-10-22 1:28:18 PM  

Irisclara: The Russians are jacking around the price of natural gas making Europe buy more from America. Natural gas prices are temporarily higher than coal so coal is once again being used in power plants. By Spring natural gas prices will drop again and coal will be right back where it was. Unless the Russians keep jacking around.

Why does everyone keep telling me to quit talking about the Russians?


A plant that can switch between gas and coal seems unlikely
 
2021-10-22 1:43:16 PM  
The industry isn't going to just shut itself down.

We have known we need to phase out coal for decades now. The government is the only one with a hand strong enough to do it, but there is no focused plan. They keep hoping the "market" will do it without any help. Well, the market is doing something, and that's replacing it with almost equally dangerous methane. The climate danger is equal or worse for methane since leaks are so common in every step of its use, but it doesn't have literal heavy metals or other impurities that coal has. But even then, the "market" isn't going to let billion of dollars sit in the ground if they can legally dig it up and burn it. If coal mining is legal, and there is a market for coal, coal will be mined.

Solar, wind, and batteries are needed, but the "invisible hand" has passed a fat lump of cash to lawmakers so rooftop solar is difficult to do in the states where it would do most good. Everything about the reality of the market is entrenched interests protect their position. We haven't seen much movement because even though the people know this is unacceptable - and theye do, the public by wide margins considers climate change a sore threat - industry has more power than the people.
 
2021-10-22 1:58:41 PM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.


lol you're serious, aren't you?
 
2021-10-22 2:03:26 PM  

Fireproof: Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.

Or is it the opposite: Polluting corporations are trying to put the blame on the shoulders of the individuals instead of themselves. We're all snapping at each other for using electricity while they're having laws rolled back to dump mining chemicals directly in streams.


It's this.  My wife and I go above and beyond with trying to balance being good caretakers of the Earth while having jobs.  We grow as much food of our own as we can.  We both got work from home jobs so we cut out commuting.  Hell, we even grow our own lufas.

Every sacrifice we make is so we feel good about ourselves.  It's nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to what oil, coal, etc are doing.
 
2021-10-22 2:44:30 PM  
Another thing TFG promised to do but Joe is actually doing it.
 
2021-10-22 2:46:19 PM  
thanks, Mnuchin
 
2021-10-22 2:47:45 PM  

Fireproof: [Fark user image 425x301]


Alternatively:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-22 2:51:51 PM  

LL316: Fireproof: Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.

Or is it the opposite: Polluting corporations are trying to put the blame on the shoulders of the individuals instead of themselves. We're all snapping at each other for using electricity while they're having laws rolled back to dump mining chemicals directly in streams.

It's this.  My wife and I go above and beyond with trying to balance being good caretakers of the Earth while having jobs.  We grow as much food of our own as we can.  We both got work from home jobs so we cut out commuting.  Hell, we even grow our own lufas.

Every sacrifice we make is so we feel good about ourselves.  It's nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to what oil, coal, etc are doing.


What exactly are they doing, and why?
 
2021-10-22 2:52:58 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: -I actually stopped eating red meat and pork, and I've cut down on chicken and fish (lost 6 pounds too)
-I moved closer to work and bought a more fuel-efficient car (I'd buy a Tesla but I detest Elon Musk)
-I am bad about electricity. I set my a/c very cold at night. I should get better about it, but I probably won't.

I'm doing what I can, but it's impossible to move to a 100% sustainable lifestyle without changes to our infrastructure.


Good on you. I've done much of the same - my family was entirely carless for about 4 years, but post-pandemic in America we did have to break down and lease one. Went fully vegetarian (aspiring vegan) a few years back and we're generally trying to get ourselves into a good place with our electricity usage. We also entirely stopped buying new clothes back in 2018 or so, taking the "mend it, don't end it" approach. It's amazing the stuff you can find for pennies on the dollar on the various resale sites. The only new consumer goods we buy are food related (outside of major appliance breakdowns, which are inevitable in this shiatty house...)

The big one for us is general efficiency - our house was built in 1897, and the windows are old as shiat. We've been slowly replacing them, fixing the various draughts around doors and the like, plus installed an EcoBee, but we're still using way too much. I'm hoping we can go for solar panels after the windows and really cut back on our consumption from the grid.

Little steps, every day.
 
2021-10-22 2:56:55 PM  
Aren't natural gas prices up largely in order to recoup losses incurred after the cockup that occurred during those winter storms in Texas last year.

So natural gas industry refuses to winterize. Production grinds to a halt sending prices skyrocketing making the industry billions. Pay some light fines, promise to not let it happen again with fingers crossed. Then watch as prices remain high?
 
2021-10-22 3:01:34 PM  

LL316: lol you're serious, aren't you?


I know it's all a sliding scale and we can't all live like hermits in caves, I just tend to assume your average American (and even your average liberal farker) is pretty far to the right when it comes to environmentalism. We talk a big game, but it's always "the only solution is to elect Democrats" not "we need to change our wasteful lifestyles." I'm touchy about it and lashed out. Sorry about that.
 
2021-10-22 3:33:02 PM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.


Good thing FARK's servers are powered by recycled cow farts and hamsters running on wheels.
 
2021-10-22 3:53:43 PM  

Omnidirectional Punching: LL316: Fireproof: Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.

Or is it the opposite: Polluting corporations are trying to put the blame on the shoulders of the individuals instead of themselves. We're all snapping at each other for using electricity while they're having laws rolled back to dump mining chemicals directly in streams.

It's this.  My wife and I go above and beyond with trying to balance being good caretakers of the Earth while having jobs.  We grow as much food of our own as we can.  We both got work from home jobs so we cut out commuting.  Hell, we even grow our own lufas.

Every sacrifice we make is so we feel good about ourselves.  It's nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to what oil, coal, etc are doing.

What exactly are they doing, and why?


Polluting.  For profit.
 
2021-10-22 3:54:30 PM  

Shaggy_C: LL316: lol you're serious, aren't you?

I know it's all a sliding scale and we can't all live like hermits in caves, I just tend to assume your average American (and even your average liberal farker) is pretty far to the right when it comes to environmentalism. We talk a big game, but it's always "the only solution is to elect Democrats" not "we need to change our wasteful lifestyles." I'm touchy about it and lashed out. Sorry about that.


Ok, I can understand that.  Apology accepted  :)
 
2021-10-22 3:57:01 PM  
Thanks Manchin.
 
2021-10-22 4:51:04 PM  

LL316: Omnidirectional Punching: LL316: Fireproof: Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.

Or is it the opposite: Polluting corporations are trying to put the blame on the shoulders of the individuals instead of themselves. We're all snapping at each other for using electricity while they're having laws rolled back to dump mining chemicals directly in streams.

It's this.  My wife and I go above and beyond with trying to balance being good caretakers of the Earth while having jobs.  We grow as much food of our own as we can.  We both got work from home jobs so we cut out commuting.  Hell, we even grow our own lufas.

Every sacrifice we make is so we feel good about ourselves.  It's nothing but a drop in the ocean compared to what oil, coal, etc are doing.

What exactly are they doing, and why?

Polluting.  For profit.


Oh hey, Mr. Business. Here's that money I owe you for polluting. Always a pleasure.
 
2021-10-22 5:08:06 PM  

olorin604: Aren't natural gas prices up largely in order to recoup losses incurred after the cockup that occurred during those winter storms in Texas last year.

So natural gas industry refuses to winterize. Production grinds to a halt sending prices skyrocketing making the industry billions. Pay some light fines, promise to not let it happen again with fingers crossed. Then watch as prices remain high?


No.  That's not it at all.
 
2021-10-22 6:31:16 PM  

Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.


You've mostly got it backwards imo.

There is a concerted effort to derail efforts to change the system in a meaningful way by placing the blame on those least capable of creating change.

And those pushing that line of thinking from the top don't care if they convince Smackledorf to go live like a cave man or not. They know they could never convince enough of us to change sufficiently to solve any environmental problems, and there aren't enough metaphorical caves even if we wanted to try.  But more than enough people won't change, and by making these personal behavioral issues those people are less likely to get on board with change by regulations and concerted government efforts..
 
2021-10-22 7:26:30 PM  

MZach42: olorin604: Aren't natural gas prices up largely in order to recoup losses incurred after the cockup that occurred during those winter storms in Texas last year.

So natural gas industry refuses to winterize. Production grinds to a halt sending prices skyrocketing making the industry billions. Pay some light fines, promise to not let it happen again with fingers crossed. Then watch as prices remain high?

No.  That's not it at all.


Ok fair enough, I was conflating consumer prices with "production" prices for lack of a better term.

Around here, and ive seen articles from elsewhere, local distributors are adding a surcharge or increasing price because of debts they incurred buying at the hyper-inflated prices to meet demand from last years storm.
 
2021-10-22 9:14:15 PM  
It is all news cycle driven. It is the rattle and hum.

People do not pay attention, so there is a perpetual surprise at this or that happening. The truth is that coal never went away. People got lulled into thinking that because solar or wind is cheaper, that the problem of emissions is solved. So they just assumed that coal is finished, and they moved on.

It is possible that more people smoke tobacco today than smoked it in, say, 1980. Tobacco never went away. It just moved from developed countries and went downscale, to countries with larger populations and more machismo.

The bigger problem keeping coal alive has not been resolved. The last huge effort to rein in coal usage was Japanese and Chinese development of technologies to reduce coal emissions by 40% or so. That effort was killed by an international coalition of financiers, environmentalists, and probably big coal. It is more or less dead now, so countries will burn their coal dirty, or dirtier, depending on the regulatory regime.

And since environmentalists have also killed nuclear, well, the only reasonable alternative to coal is ALSO dead in the water.

So all of this is not news. This theme has legs, and humanity will be struggling to rid itself of coal for at least the next decade. TFA even spells it out. Humanity will most probably be using twice as much coal  in 2030 as it does now.
 
2021-10-22 9:35:53 PM  
Every single consumer can make better choices. Finger pointing between producers and consumers seems to be very fashionable, but it hides the fact that consumers consume what producers produce. It is the feedback that perpetuates and expands the system. It also cannot be denied that EXPANDING that system drives human progress.

Creating a system that produces huge numbers of EVs will require vast resources and infrastructural changes, along with junking a large part of existing infrastructure, products, etc.

There are probably less "costly" paths for progress, requiring less wasteful destruction of what we already have, and less panicky rushing to systems that might not work. We need to move along, plainly and simply.

>  means "is better than"

Heat pump > radiant heating > gas > heating oil > coal > wood stove > peat

LED > Compact fluorescent > incandescent

FCEV > EV > PHEV > HEV > natural gas vehicle > efficient ICE >  inefficient ICE, and used is better than new for all of these.

That is ALL demand side, right? I think the demand side only has one signal, which is the Veruca Salt mantra, "I want more. I want it now." Given increasing populations and living standards, that is undeniable.

On the supply side, to me anyway, the "solution" is oversupply and curtailment. If you want to cut, you have to create slack. If you want to always have enough to meet demand, you need to always have extra. If solar and wind are a lot cheaper than batteries and nuclear, don't try to make batteries and nuclear cheaper, just get a whole lot more solar and wind. DUH! And use a little coal and gas if you have to. Make hydrogen and ammonia and use it. Did life give utilities lemons? YES! Well, make some lemonade.
 
2021-10-22 9:49:10 PM  
We are entering an era of USED solar panels, USED HVs and EVs, USED inverters and other equipment.

A solar panel that used to produce 240 W now might produce only 220 W, well, boo hoo. What some large solar farms will do is rip those out and replace them with new panels that might get to 280 or 300 W so that they can earn more for their acreage.

Lead batteries have become very easily recyclable and refurbishable. But a lot of them are still viable, just not good enough for use in a motor vehicle. Fark has had articles in the past on how hobbyists are using these. Homes might too. I am not too excited about this, but someone might be.

Point being that it is time for A MILLION POINTS OF LIGHT to rise up and take those old panels and use them. Old stuff with 60 to 90% of its old capacity, but 20% of the cost or less is just crying out to be used. In an environment with high disposal costs, low interest rates, and high demand for electricity, I really hope that some COAL generated electricity is replaced by kilowatts from second hand solar panels.

/ I am baking brownies right now with solar panels that have not degraded even 1% over the last decade.
// ... but they aren't Chinese, so YMMV.
/// I doubt any panels are degrading 10% in a decade though.
 
2021-10-22 9:56:40 PM  

2fardownthread: It is all news cycle driven. It is the rattle and hum.

People do not pay attention, so there is a perpetual surprise at this or that happening. The truth is that coal never went away. People got lulled into thinking that because solar or wind is cheaper, that the problem of emissions is solved. So they just assumed that coal is finished, and they moved on.

It is possible that more people smoke tobacco today than smoked it in, say, 1980. Tobacco never went away. It just moved from developed countries and went downscale, to countries with larger populations and more machismo.

The bigger problem keeping coal alive has not been resolved. The last huge effort to rein in coal usage was Japanese and Chinese development of technologies to reduce coal emissions by 40% or so. That effort was killed by an international coalition of financiers, environmentalists, and probably big coal. It is more or less dead now, so countries will burn their coal dirty, or dirtier, depending on the regulatory regime.

And since environmentalists have also killed nuclear, well, the only reasonable alternative to coal is ALSO dead in the water.

So all of this is not news. This theme has legs, and humanity will be struggling to rid itself of coal for at least the next decade. TFA even spells it out. Humanity will most probably be using twice as much coal  in 2030 as it does now.


I was working in mineral instruments in Australia at the time of Fukashima:

We literally within a week started redeploying instruments (and what we were developing) to coal work, away from Uranium.

In Australia, coal has a slightly more complicated history than just a energy source: it's location determines our (locational) political centre of gravity.

It's the unspoken elephant in the room here.

Like hell we'll fix it
 
2021-10-22 10:25:30 PM  

LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.


I'd say "In before someone claims existing is pro-pollution", but unfortunately it only took 2 posts before someone decided to go full moron.
 
2021-10-22 10:33:04 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

-I actually stopped eating red meat and pork, and I've cut down on chicken and fish (lost 6 pounds too)
-I moved closer to work and bought a more fuel-efficient car (I'd buy a Tesla but I detest Elon Musk)
-I am bad about electricity. I set my a/c very cold at night. I should get better about it, but I probably won't.

I'm doing what I can, but it's impossible to move to a 100% sustainable lifestyle without changes to our infrastructure.


The overwhelming majority of global GHG production is tied to industrial output in a handful of markets that don't serve household level consumers, so even if everyone began living life as homeless vegans yesterday you'd still see something in the order of 80+% of today's GHG production.
 
2021-10-23 2:02:38 AM  

Axeofjudgement: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Pollution is tasty!


driver rolling coal into a Whataburger dining room
Youtube nwD5FzFHwQw
 
2021-10-23 5:35:43 AM  

Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image image 425x301]


This is such a stupid argument. You don't have to fly somewhere far for vacation every year. You don't have to drive an SUV. You don't have to eat a hamburger every day for lunch. Yeah, there are some things in society that pollute and are nigh unavoidable, but the majority of your most polluting activities are entirely unnecessary.
 
2021-10-23 2:25:35 PM  

Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.


70% of emissions are from corporations, not people.
 
2021-10-23 3:14:39 PM  

Mechanicum: Omnidirectional Punching: Fireproof: Shaggy_C: LL316: Pro pollution is such a weird stance to take.

When's the last time you drove a car? Ate meat? Used electricity?

Your consumer activities are "pro-pollution." Your dollars go to supporting pollution. You just say you're against it because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because you actually change your lifestyle.

[Fark user image 425x301]

He's being a dick as usual, but he's not wrong. There's a concentrated effort to keep consumers consuming by pointing to polluting corporations and saying it's all their fault. That absolves the rest of us and we can't do shiat about corporations while open bribery of elected officials is legal, so the status quo is maintained.

70% of emissions are from corporations, not people.


Yeah. And they'd just keep polluting for funsies if nobody bought their oil, so we should just keep consuming.

Society.
 
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