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(The Register)   Apple hopes to keep their App Store going by making the internet terrible   (theregister.com) divider line
    More: Creepy, WebKit, Web browser, Google Chrome, Acid2, haunts web developer nightmares, Usage share of web browsers, Google, Acid3  
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1232 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Oct 2021 at 8:15 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



49 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-22 8:50:33 AM  
How bout we just get a court order that forces apple to give 2 board seats to each one of the browser competitors so they can join us in modern times and stop holding us back
 
2021-10-22 9:00:17 AM  
Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.
 
2021-10-22 9:05:39 AM  
Safari is the new IE. Glorious irony.

Where is the EU lawsuit for forced integration? Oh right. EU lawsuits against Microsoft and Google were bought and paid for by Apple.
 
2021-10-22 9:21:40 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.


Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS
 
2021-10-22 9:28:13 AM  
According to Apple's App Store rules: "apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript." Every iPhone user is a Safari/WebKit user whether they use Safari or Chrome.

...

In essence Apple hasn't implemented some of the core features [in WebKit] that make websites able to behave in an app-like way.


Translation: "I don't care about web standards. Give me my 30% App Store fee."

Why is a trillion dollar company getting away with this when not even Microsoft would?

/ Oh right, because they have a trillion dollars.
 
2021-10-22 9:29:52 AM  

Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.

Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS


Apple has a browser monopoly on iOS, which is something Microsoft was never able to achieve with IE. In Windows you could at least install Firefox. If you do that on iOS it might say Firefox, but you're still using WebKit. The reality is if you have an iOS device, you use Safari and are bound by its limitations.
 
2021-10-22 9:30:57 AM  
To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.
 
2021-10-22 9:43:21 AM  

wingnut396: Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.

Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS

Apple has a browser monopoly on iOS, which is something Microsoft was never able to achieve with IE. In Windows you could at least install Firefox. If you do that on iOS it might say Firefox, but you're still using WebKit. The reality is if you have an iOS device, you use Safari and are bound by its limitations.


Didnt know that


Walled garden
 
2021-10-22 9:46:10 AM  

wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.


I use mobile only bec im at work

Nothing beats a real desktop with a real OS and keyboard/mouse

Mobile is a joke by comparison
 
2021-10-22 9:48:31 AM  

wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.


Did i mention a real sound system?
 
2021-10-22 9:48:46 AM  

Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.

Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS


If you're developing for the mass market, you can't really ignore the Apple ecosystem and maximize your revenue.  The poor darlings will just have to cope.  I've been very fortunate to be able to avoid developing for Apple most of my life, and I plan to keep it that way.
 
2021-10-22 9:49:23 AM  

wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.


Or a nice 27 inch screen?
 
2021-10-22 9:51:57 AM  

Linux_Yes: Walled garden


I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.
 
2021-10-22 9:55:20 AM  

Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?


I'm kind of disappointed with my new 4K monitor, it's actually difficult go get the mouse pointed exactly right on some of the the tinier icons.  I might go back to 2560x1440.  That's a perfect size to get the launcher bar and two windows into the frame.
 
2021-10-22 9:59:49 AM  

Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?


I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.
 
2021-10-22 10:01:38 AM  
Reading about Apple is such a curious thing to me because I've never owned a single Apple product in my entire life of 47 years. I ran iTunes on my PC for a while until it got too bloated for my liking, but they've not received a single penny of mine. There are just so many other, non-proprietary alternatives out there. While others were spending hundreds on iPods, I had an $80 SanDisk Sansa. I bought mp3s on Amazon (after pirating poor quality music in the early aughts) and could play them on an unlimited number of devices. It's not that I dislike Apple, I just have about as much interest in their products as I do in sportsballs.
 
2021-10-22 10:02:30 AM  

Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.

Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS


"According to Apple's App Store rules: "apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript." Every iPhone user is a Safari/WebKit user whether they use Safari or Chrome. (or Firefox)"
 
2021-10-22 10:04:17 AM  

wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.


Desktop FTW. I work e-commerce on a VDI via VMWare and also constantly grabbing data from SSMS. I absolutely need a lot of horsepower, real peripherals, and screen real estate.
 
2021-10-22 10:06:33 AM  

wingnut396: mobile devices


With keyboards and a mouse.
 
2021-10-22 10:07:04 AM  

pushthelimits: wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.

Desktop FTW. I work e-commerce on a VDI via VMWare and also constantly grabbing data from SSMS. I absolutely need a lot of horsepower, real peripherals, and screen real estate.


Sometimes even two monitors is not enough.
 
2021-10-22 10:10:23 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm kind of disappointed with my new 4K monitor, it's actually difficult go get the mouse pointed exactly right on some of the the tinier icons.  I might go back to 2560x1440.  That's a perfect size to get the launcher bar and two windows into the frame.


I ended up going with a 1440p monitor. I figured that 4k would make everything look far too tiny to be usable and I'd end up scaling it. So why pay the extra that I don't need.

I now wish that I'd bought two so that I could have one be in portrait. Not because I'd use it that way, but because it would look cool for aesthetics :)
 
2021-10-22 10:13:59 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: pushthelimits: wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.

Desktop FTW. I work e-commerce on a VDI via VMWare and also constantly grabbing data from SSMS. I absolutely need a lot of horsepower, real peripherals, and screen real estate.

Sometimes even two monitors is not enough.


Agreed! One has my work screen and the other, the VDI from a big box store that will remain nameless. Basically I manage an e-commerce catalog of my employer's products in the software the box store uses, is proprietary to them, and resides on their servers.

I couldn't do my job on a laptop alone, let alone a tablet or phone. Work is making me use a laptop provided by them, so I have it shut and all my peripherals plugged into a USB hub and into the docking station so I can easily switch between the work laptop and my personal
desktop PC. But I'm a nerd... I build my own PCs.
 
2021-10-22 10:14:23 AM  

pushthelimits: wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.

Desktop FTW. I work e-commerce on a VDI via VMWare and also constantly grabbing data from SSMS. I absolutely need a lot of horsepower, real peripherals, and screen real estate.


I totally agree. I need a proper keyboard, and currently have 3 big monitors. That's probably the limit for me - I sometimes feel like something's happening behind me since upgrading from 2.

But we're definitely the edge case, already falling far behind mass consumption via phones or even tablets. Those devices and commerce on them are dominant. As things like voice recognition and battery life improve, that's likely to accelerate even more. Desktops are already about as advanced as they can be - I'm done with screen space, Marcus on resolution. And it's cheap and easy to expand ram and storage - few people are limited by the desktop for those. Faster will always be nice, and we'll get that, but for many of us, there won't be a lot of practical improvement on that front either.
 
2021-10-22 10:24:51 AM  
Reading the article, I see that the stuff WebKit doesn't do yet are mostly all the things that I, personally, hate on the web. For me, there's no reason to replace proper applications with web apps. If a web app wants access to my hard-drive or my ports, that app can fark right off, frankly. I am not everybody, but if I ran Apple, an operating system company, I'd be hesitant to jump all-in on these features too quickly (if at all).
 
2021-10-22 10:35:23 AM  

pushthelimits: I build my own PCs.


Same here.  Laptops I buy, everything else is assembled from parts.
 
2021-10-22 10:37:32 AM  
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2021-10-22 10:38:03 AM  
have they tried rounding off the corners?
 
2021-10-22 10:46:10 AM  
Apple sucks balls. I know this because my wife loves Apple products, and she also sucks balls. It's not misogyny, it's logic.
 
2021-10-22 10:51:31 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.


One would think a business model based on selling overpriced hardware, that is trailing years behind competitor innovations with a built in limitation of being a walled off garden would hinder their success as a company.

Yet Apple is going to Apple and people are going to be mad about it...
 
2021-10-22 10:56:48 AM  

keldaria: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.

One would think a business model based on selling overpriced hardware, that is trailing years behind competitor innovations with a built in limitation of being a walled off garden would hinder their success as a company.

Yet Apple is going to Apple and people are going to be mad about it...


I don't think that's fair on apple. The iphone and watch are top of the line.

And there really isn't a serious competitor to the iPad.

And those are priced pretty competitively. You want to attack their laptops and desktop machines as overpriced and under featured.
 
2021-10-22 11:05:40 AM  

GardenWeasel: Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Maybe if we give Apple a 30% cut of everything on the internet, they'll finally bring their browser up to date.

Or

You could just use Firefox/alternate OS

"According to Apple's App Store rules: "apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript." Every iPhone user is a Safari/WebKit user whether they use Safari or Chrome. (or Firefox)"


Dirty pool!
 
2021-10-22 11:06:25 AM  

wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.


True
Its necessity for many
 
2021-10-22 11:21:41 AM  
"Safari's defenders, and Apple itself, argue that the company isn't implementing all these new APIs because letting developers have access to your USB ports, Bluetooth, battery status, and proximity sensor will allow advertisers to build device "fingerprints" which further erode privacy, to say nothing of the impact on battery life."

I'm good with that.
 
2021-10-22 11:32:09 AM  

keldaria: Yet Apple is going to Apple and people are going to be mad about it...


I didn't go away mad, I just went away.
 
2021-10-22 11:55:32 AM  

Gubbo: keldaria: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.

One would think a business model based on selling overpriced hardware, that is trailing years behind competitor innovations with a built in limitation of being a walled off garden would hinder their success as a company.

Yet Apple is going to Apple and people are going to be mad about it...

I don't think that's fair on apple. The iphone and watch are top of the line.

And there really isn't a serious competitor to the iPad.

And those are priced pretty competitively. You want to attack their laptops and desktop machines as overpriced and under featured.


I mean I'm typing this on an iPhone 13 with an iWatch on my wrist but that doesn't change the fact that Apple is forcing old and slow to update web standards on their apps in the App Store as this article explains and why it takes Apple years to adopt features incorporated into droids.

I use iPhone because it's user interface and features are polished to no end but that does come at a cost of speed to adopt innovative smartphone features (outside of the select features Apple focuses on to a fault). Sure the top end hardware is competitively priced but low end it's more expensive than it's competitors. I use an iWatch because it seamlessly integrates into that system the way no other smart watch can. Beyond that however I will likely never own a Mac.

I have no hate for Apple, but they do have a way they do things. That way suites me (for now) but it doesn't suite everyone, why those people get upset instead of just going to a competitor is beyond me.
 
2021-10-22 1:04:29 PM  

bdub77: Apple sucks balls. I know this because my wife loves Apple products, and she also sucks balls. It's not misogyny, it's logic.


Can confirm your wife does indeed suck balls. On first date too.
 
2021-10-22 1:15:10 PM  

GardenWeasel: Safari is the new IE. Glorious irony.

Where is the EU lawsuit for forced integration? Oh right. EU lawsuits against Microsoft and Google were bought and paid for by Apple.


That's a new version of QAnon I hadn't heard.

Or are you good boy Brexiter?
 
2021-10-22 1:18:13 PM  

wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.


My eyes aren't good enough. But back when I was a student, sure, that would have been great. A modern cellphone and a keyboard, and I'd be good.
 
2021-10-22 1:27:23 PM  
Got an iPhone 11 but I use the DuckDuckGo, Chrome or Opera aps for any browsing. Works better that way in my experience.
 
2021-10-22 1:51:09 PM  

Morchella: Got an iPhone 11 but I use the DuckDuckGo, Chrome or Opera aps for any browsing. Works better that way in my experience.


They all use the safari WebKit. The article is literally specifically about how regardless of the browser you use on iOS that it's largely the same and has the same capability issues
 
2021-10-22 1:52:12 PM  
The joke's on Apple, the internet has been terrible for years.
 
2021-10-22 2:10:09 PM  

keldaria: They all use the safari WebKit. The article is literally specifically about how regardless of the browser you use on iOS that it's largely the same and has the same capability issues


Thanks for the info. One of the few times I didn't read TFA. I'll monitor (more) closely and see if there are differences. I'd have sworn there are.
 
2021-10-22 8:01:44 PM  
Yeah, I'll take one popular-but-less-capable browser over another farking monoculture.
 
2021-10-22 9:17:06 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.


What "premium" are you paying to use the free Safari browser instead of Chrome? Give your head a shake.
 
2021-10-22 9:34:55 PM  

bingethinker: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.

What "premium" are you paying to use the free Safari browser instead of Chrome? Give your head a shake.


The strategy is to make web apps ugly and unusable on the Mac.  I was using Chrome as an example.  Apple makes no money off a pure web app.  They want you to use their app store for everything.
 
2021-10-22 11:13:23 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: bingethinker: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Walled garden

I run Chrome on my Mac (when I must!) and Apple manages to make it look like shiat.  It's intentional.  Apple has always insisted that you only use Apple and pay the premium.  They need to wet their beaks.  Fark that noise.

What "premium" are you paying to use the free Safari browser instead of Chrome? Give your head a shake.

The strategy is to make web apps ugly and unusable on the Mac.  I was using Chrome as an example.  Apple makes no money off a pure web app.  They want you to use their app store for everything.


I use Chrome and Firefox on a Mac. They both look better (and work better) than Safari.
 
2021-10-23 12:39:17 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm kind of disappointed with my new 4K monitor, it's actually difficult go get the mouse pointed exactly right on some of the the tinier icons.  I might go back to 2560x1440.  That's a perfect size to get the launcher bar and two windows into the frame.


Just get a 53" 4k tv and put it on your desk, it's glorious! And pretty cheap. Then the icons are easy to click!
 
2021-10-23 12:45:09 AM  

OccamsWhiskers: pushthelimits: wingnut396: Linux_Yes: wingnut396: To back that up, most people will not use an alternate OS on a phone.  Desktops are still huge, but mobile OS is where so much more stuff has gone and will continue to go.

Or a nice 27 inch screen?

I'm old school and not disagreeing with you on the what a nice desktop can provide.  But that will continue to become the minority.  My wife has students (high school/first year college) that write their entire papers on mobile devices.  For many others, a smart phone is the only compute device they have and that is how they interact with all sorts of business and government services.

Desktop FTW. I work e-commerce on a VDI via VMWare and also constantly grabbing data from SSMS. I absolutely need a lot of horsepower, real peripherals, and screen real estate.

I totally agree. I need a proper keyboard, and currently have 3 big monitors. That's probably the limit for me - I sometimes feel like something's happening behind me since upgrading from 2.

But we're definitely the edge case, already falling far behind mass consumption via phones or even tablets. Those devices and commerce on them are dominant. As things like voice recognition and battery life improve, that's likely to accelerate even more. Desktops are already about as advanced as they can be - I'm done with screen space, Marcus on resolution. And it's cheap and easy to expand ram and storage - few people are limited by the desktop for those. Faster will always be nice, and we'll get that, but for many of us, there won't be a lot of practical improvement on that front either.


640K should be enough for anyone!
 
2021-10-23 6:11:04 PM  
I use Firefox on my Mac. I'm too much of a luddite to know what supposed "features" I'm missing out on, on the Mac, if any at all. I'm generally of the opinion that, while not perfect, Apple is fairly serious about privacy and if they don't want to allow developers access to my ports and stuff, then neither do I.
 
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