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(Yahoo)   Cause of death of hiking California family and dog determined to have been heat related due to 110-degree weather. Among causes ruled out: extreme heat   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Sierra National Forest, Death, Suicide, Mariposa County, California, Carbon dioxide, Algal bloom, Oxygen, Hiking  
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3089 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2021 at 11:46 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-21 9:43:10 PM  
Healthy experienced hikers, from the area.  Still a mystery how this came to happen.  My spouse's take: the baby was the first to overheat, perhaps the kid suffered something similar to a febrile seizure.  That freaked out the parents, they panicked and also hyperthermed in their rush to get the baby to safety.

/???
 
2021-10-21 11:53:28 PM  
I always check the weather before hiking in extreme heat .
 
2021-10-21 11:53:42 PM  
This story is baffling.
I have like 100 questions that no news story ever answers. 1 example, who the F hikes in 107 degree heat with a baby?
Maybe I watched too much X-Files but this is bizarre in many ways.
 
2021-10-21 11:54:02 PM  
Could've sworn we were told they still had some water left.
 
2021-10-21 11:54:08 PM  
Hiking with a baby in 110 degree heat seems inadvisable.
 
2021-10-21 11:58:02 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Could've sworn we were told they still had some water left.


In extreme heat exhaustion you lose your thirst drive.

They could have been rationing water, then parents lost thirst drive and assumed kids were OK.
 
2021-10-21 11:59:37 PM  

Sgygus: Healthy experienced hikers, from the area.  Still a mystery how this came to happen.  My spouse's take: the baby was the first to overheat, perhaps the kid suffered something similar to a febrile seizure.  That freaked out the parents, they panicked and also hyperthermed in their rush to get the baby to safety.

/???


It's really easy to experience a heat related illness and become disoriented in that kind of heat, potentially in minutes, let alone hours.  This type of event is not all that uncommon in the desert.  Every year there's people, sometimes even couples, that end up dead within close distance to their cars in Joshua Tree because they decided day hiking in 110F+ conditions was not a problem.
 
2021-10-21 11:59:55 PM  

SergeantObvious: Hiking with a baby in 110 degree heat seems inadvisable.


Why?  What's the worst that could happen?
Oh.....right.
 
2021-10-22 12:00:02 AM  

litespeed74: who the F hikes in 107 degree heat with a baby?


Well, we know they did.
 
2021-10-22 12:02:17 AM  
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2021-10-22 12:02:21 AM  
I was under the impression they were just hanging out at camp
 
2021-10-22 12:02:52 AM  
Other causes of death that were considered but ultimately ruled out included gunshots, extreme heat,...
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2021-10-22 12:03:20 AM  

SergeantObvious: Hiking with a baby in 110 degree heat seems inadvisable.


I don't care if it's perfect weather, I'm not hiking 8 miles with a baby.
I wouldn't make the poor dog walk 8 miles either.
 
2021-10-22 12:04:30 AM  
"This is a very unusual, unique situation," Kristie Mitchell, a spokesperson for the Mariposa County Sheriff's Office, said shortly after their bodies were found on Aug. 17.

Actually, it happens relatively often because people are stupid idiots.
 
2021-10-22 12:04:54 AM  
That poor dog and baby.
 
2021-10-22 12:05:09 AM  
If I recall the news stories correctly, this is an "upside down hike".  One of those where the first half is all downhill but then you have to climb back up to get back home.  The Grand Canyon is one of those; every year a few people die when they do the easy decent down to the river and then die trying to get back up to the rim.
 
2021-10-22 12:06:22 AM  

Begoggle: SergeantObvious: Hiking with a baby in 110 degree heat seems inadvisable.

I don't care if it's perfect weather, I'm not hiking 8 miles with a baby.
I wouldn't make the poor dog walk 8 miles either.


My dog loves hikes of 10+ miles.  So much so that he doesn't want to leave starting around mile 7, so he lays down.  Then I have to carry him back to the car.
 
2021-10-22 12:06:46 AM  
What killed them?
Human stupidity, plain and simple.
I feel sorry about the dog.
 
2021-10-22 12:07:02 AM  
This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.
 
2021-10-22 12:10:33 AM  
i think California is one of the places trying to get 'extreme heat' in the public consciousness as a  weather threat on par with hurricanes and tornados, so that pols might feel pressure to allocate funds to researching mitigation of climate change effects in more populated areas.
 
2021-10-22 12:11:12 AM  
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2021-10-22 12:12:18 AM  

BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.


Yeah, this is an odd explanation. It's not exactly satisfactory.
 
2021-10-22 12:13:12 AM  
Maybe at first it didn't seem too hot to go hiking. To me, 107 degrees would seem like hell, but I grew up on the Canadian prairies. I know people who were raised in hotter climates who don't think 100 degrees Fahrenheit is any big deal. Then they got overwhelmed too far into the hike to make it back.
 
2021-10-22 12:13:19 AM  

BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.


Apparently they do.
 
2021-10-22 12:14:18 AM  
It was the salmon loaf.
 
Oak
2021-10-22 12:15:48 AM  

Froman: It was the salmon mousse.


FTFAOU
 
2021-10-22 12:16:28 AM  
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/user​f​iles/works/pdfs/2017-124.pdf

Working in heat or hiking in heat, I don't think the body cares as long it is prepared for it.
 
2021-10-22 12:17:01 AM  

leeksfromchichis: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Apparently they do.


No, they don't.

//an argument isn't just contradiction...
 
2021-10-22 12:18:24 AM  

BuckTurgidson: leeksfromchichis: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Apparently they do.

No, they don't.

//an argument isn't just contradiction...


To be fair, both of you have provided the same level of evidence, so your arguments are equally compelling.
 
2021-10-22 12:19:24 AM  

leeksfromchichis: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Apparently they do.


Heat stroke/exhaustion is less than 1/20 fatal.

The odds ain't in it.
 
2021-10-22 12:19:45 AM  

BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.


Why not?  If the parents both collapse then the baby obviously isn't going anywhere, and the dog, now also dehydrated, will also probably just stay with its masters until it also dies.
 
2021-10-22 12:20:12 AM  
i meant to add, and that may be why the article specifies 'extreme heat' among the things ruled out: there are people working on compiling statistics of deaths in which extreme heat is the cause, and don't want to stir up the climate change deniers who love to shout 'fake news'.
but this is a super sad story and i don't want to think about it.
 
2021-10-22 12:25:18 AM  
It's a shame the couple died. They were still carrying almost two gallons of water.
 
2021-10-22 12:28:04 AM  

Fonaibung: BuckTurgidson: leeksfromchichis: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Apparently they do.

No, they don't.

//an argument isn't just contradiction...

To be fair, both of you have provided the same level of evidence, so your arguments are equally compelling.


Sorry if Wikipedia don't answer your standards, I can provide much more tedious references.

Heat stroke, also known as sun stroke, is a type of severe heat illness that results in a body temperature greater than 40.0 °C (104.0 °F).[4] Other symptoms include red skin, headache, dizziness, and confusion.[2]
...


Let's circle back to the idea that four mammals simultaneously perished of temperature.

This is not physiologically plausible.
 
2021-10-22 12:30:15 AM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: It's a shame the couple died. They were still carrying almost two gallons of water.


According to TFA:

"The family had one 85-ounce water container on them, which was empty at the time they were found."
 
2021-10-22 12:30:59 AM  

BuckTurgidson: leeksfromchichis: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Apparently they do.

No, they don't.

//an argument isn't just contradiction...


My contradiction wasn't an argument.  Officials say heatstroke, that's good enough for me. It checks out according to how much I hate hot weather scale.

Maybe it was cryptid or black ops shiat or crime or god was there and said "Hello" directly and His voice struck them dead because they're mortals.

If you wanna sleuth it out more, you can.  But for me, the temperature being over 30 is rough enough. 43+?  That's death.
 
2021-10-22 12:32:27 AM  

leeksfromchichis: Officials say heatstroke, that's good enough for me.


Bully for you, please carry on with my sincere blessings.
 
2021-10-22 12:32:51 AM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: It's a shame the couple died. They were still carrying almost two gallons of water.


85oz is more like 2/3 of a gallon. For 2 adults, a baby, and a dog.

I just did a 15 mile hike with 3000' of gain last Sunday, in fine mid 60s weather, with occasional shade.

I took more than a gallon of fluids (water, Gatorade, OJ) just for myself. It was completely gone by the time I got back to the trailhead.
 
2021-10-22 12:33:03 AM  

litespeed74: This story is baffling.
I have like 100 questions that no news story ever answers. 1 example, who the F hikes in 107 degree heat with a baby?
Maybe I watched too much X-Files but this is bizarre in many ways.


Can't say I ever did in 107, but I've hiked with my kids as babies from -10 to 102, in the extremes I tended to keep it to 1-2 mile hikes. Probably the only reason I didn't hike with them at 107 is that it never gets that hot here and their first trips (when I would consider them a baby vs toddler) were to Florida and Yellowstone which aren't that hot either. In heat you keep them shaded, give them a bottle, and have your partner watch their color. We used to joke that my older boy was an apartment baby because he didn't have a yard to play in until her was 3 but really he got out and about more than most kids today, ended up an Eagle Scout because he was active outdoors from the time he could keep his head up =)
 
2021-10-22 12:42:33 AM  

Oak: Froman: It was the salmon mousse.

FTFAOU


AOU?
 
2021-10-22 12:43:13 AM  

jiesenPSD: Oak: Froman: It was the salmon mousse.

FTFAOU

AOU?


(emphasis on the A)
 
2021-10-22 12:43:42 AM  

Troy Aikman's Giant Thumbs: It's a shame the couple died. They were still carrying almost two gallons of water.


Got a citation for that?, because the news story says otherwise.
 
2021-10-22 12:54:07 AM  

SergeantObvious: Hiking with a baby in 110 degree heat seems inadvisable.


ftfy
 
2021-10-22 12:56:11 AM  
If only Dune came out a few days sooner. They'd know to bring stilsuits!
 
2021-10-22 12:56:17 AM  
Idiot humans dying because they idiotically left civilization behind? Lmao. Bummer.

c.tenor.comView Full Size


Californians really living up their dumb as a box of rocks stereotypes.
 
2021-10-22 12:57:18 AM  

BuckTurgidson: Dehydration or heat stroke?


Not dehydration.

Heat stroke is one type of hyperthermia, not the only type, but yes it can kill quickly particularly when in the sun and exercising/hiking at temps well above the body's average temperature.

Note: ambient air temps also are not necessary ground temps, sometimes it is hotter on the ground in the sun.
 
2021-10-22 12:57:50 AM  

Sgygus: experienced hikers


I am not one, but were they either? They had one 87 ounce bottle of water for an 8 mile hike with temperatures between 100-110 F?
 
2021-10-22 12:59:27 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Could've sworn we were told they still had some water left.


Sometimes people ration their water so much in desperate situations they end up dying of thirst while still carrying water. According to TFA that wasn't the case here. Their container was empty.
 
2021-10-22 1:00:34 AM  

hlehmann: BuckTurgidson: This is a Dyatlov Pass level mystery.

Algae?  Really? They'd have puked maybe and spent a week at home recovering.

Dehydration or heat stroke?  They'd have hell's own headaches, but four mammals don't just all suddenly die of heat stroke at the same time within yards of one another.

Why not?  If the parents both collapse then the baby obviously isn't going anywhere, and the dog, now also dehydrated, will also probably just stay with its masters until it also dies.


Hmmm. This is somewhat plausible but sign me up on team skeptic. Here's an interesting story about heat stroke death. If one of them had died I'd be, yep, it was the heat. Or if the bodies had been scattered along the trail. The less afflicted adult trying to get help. From the interesting story it doesn't sound like diagnosis would be too difficult, major internal damage, lots of hemorrhaging, bloody vomit, convulsions.

Okay, mom drops first. Dad tries to carry her and the kid and then he drops. I might buy that, especially if it was section without shade...although it sounds like once it gets bad shade isn't enough. That baby might have had a really super tragic death.

I've often gotten the sickening headache and nausea while hiking. I try not to hike when it's too hot and carry lots of water and I even set my alarm to stop and drink and take some salt or an electrolyte and hike slow and for shorter distances.

Welp, enough blathering.
 
2021-10-22 1:02:04 AM  

BuckTurgidson: Let's circle back to the idea that four mammals simultaneously perished of temperature.

This is not physiologically plausible.


They very likely did not succumb "simultaneously", but one after the other. For example, they weren't all found together, one victim was a but further up (or down) the trail.

The baby couldn't have done anything if the adults died. And where was the dog going to go?

It's entirely plausible given the ambient air temps (and again likely ground temps), sun exposure, et al. Just because there are stories of people surviving in the desert doesn't make it the standard at all times.
 
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