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(The Drive)   Bucking industry trends, the 2022 model Honda Civic Si is maintaining its innovative security system that foils thieves under the age of 40   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Honda Civic, Honda Civic Si, Manual transmission, new benchmark, new Si, Civic Type R, percent increase, Honda  
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905 clicks; posted to STEM » and Main » on 19 Oct 2021 at 1:48 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-19 12:47:57 PM  
Nice car.
 
2021-10-19 1:24:21 PM  
They are going to have to shut up and take my money.
 
2021-10-19 1:52:03 PM  
Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."
 
2021-10-19 1:59:41 PM  
Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices
 
2021-10-19 2:06:48 PM  

austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."


Both of my vehicles are manual. I can't wait to teach my kid. I just hope they last long enough for him to get there. He's 9 now. The vehicles are nearly 17 and 22 years old now. And I don't see myself buying a newer vehicle anytime soon. The Mrs has a newer car, but of course it's automatic. However, she can drive a manual, and had one growing up.
 
2021-10-19 2:07:23 PM  
Bring back the CRX
Small car for tall people
 
2021-10-19 2:09:15 PM  
Now if Honda would bring back coupes...
 
2021-10-19 2:13:55 PM  
Nice, Now Just remove the back two doors.   Coupes that's it, coupes.
 
2021-10-19 2:14:18 PM  
Article didn't indicate if Si trim is available on the hatch, because that would interest me.  Since I'm not commuting any longer and generally won't have to encounter dense stop and go traffic, definitely interested in having a manual in my daily driver again.
 
2021-10-19 2:14:42 PM  
No longer normally aspirated, if that matters to purists.
 
2021-10-19 2:18:43 PM  

austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."


Even more hilarious is the fact they take a few amateurs for car thieves, laughing it up they can't drive a stick.

Any car thief worth a damn can drive a stick, just like they probably know how to defeat all sorts of specialty security.
 
2021-10-19 2:19:53 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless


Stick is useful for actually paying attention to the road and avoiding distractions or boredom (or sleepiness) that might cause accidents.
 
2021-10-19 2:21:50 PM  

Darth Funjamin: Now if Honda would bring back coupes...


Why?  Nobody buys coupes anymore.  A

If anything, they should bring back an updated Element.
 
2021-10-19 2:31:46 PM  
they know their customer base...

j.gifs.comView Full Size


With that said, Both Jack and Jill o the woods drive manuals, we both prefer them and don't have to worry about some Aisin absolute pile of slushbox shiate or CVT giving up the ghost at 100k. They suck in stop and go traffic but we live out in the sticks anyway so it isn't a big deal. Not anti automatic ( am anti CVT in anything except our minibikes and sleds ) , we just enjoy driving the manual instead of wondering wtf this thing isn't downshifting or why is it hanging before shifting. I'm convinced auto trans programmers must be the engineers no other engineers want to work with and get sent to that department do to their incompetence. DBW throttle programmers are right behind them (what, the rpm isnt supposed to hang up there wherever you lifted from and pushed the clutch in for like 5 friggin seconds ?  What's that, you don't like a random multi-second delay on throttle tip in ?? ) .  i could deal with a dual clutch or manual mode automatic, but the "drive" shift schedules and programming on most automatics are infuriating.
 
2021-10-19 2:34:52 PM  

austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."


Millenials:  [too lazy to learn something]
Millenials:  It's the Boomers' fault!
 
2021-10-19 2:36:52 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices


It's pretty fun to drive, actually.  And while the theft-deterrent properties do seem to be overhyped, I have left my Jeep, with the top down, parked overnight in downtown Tampa and St Pete many times after calling an Uber.
 
2021-10-19 2:41:08 PM  

Ishkur: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless

Stick is useful for actually paying attention to the road and avoiding distractions or boredom (or sleepiness) that might cause accidents.


If you have problems paying attention to the road, that's all on you dude.  Stay out of the driver's seat.
 
2021-10-19 2:45:32 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.


The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.
 
2021-10-19 3:04:10 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices


God forbid I want to have fun while I drive
 
2021-10-19 3:07:58 PM  

austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."


it's a gear selector and a clutch, you don't need to take out a college loan to figure it out

/you guys are good at college loans, right?
//and clutches nowadays are hydraulic
///much easier than the old straight rod actuator
 
2021-10-19 3:13:01 PM  

freakdiablo: Ishkur: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless

Stick is useful for actually paying attention to the road and avoiding distractions or boredom (or sleepiness) that might cause accidents.

If you have problems paying attention to the road, that's all on you dude.  Stay out of the driver's seat.


It's not me I'm worried about.
 
2021-10-19 3:13:03 PM  

mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.


What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.
 
2021-10-19 3:15:23 PM  

Myk-House of El: Article didn't indicate if Si trim is available on the hatch, because that would interest me.  Since I'm not commuting any longer and generally won't have to encounter dense stop and go traffic, definitely interested in having a manual in my daily driver again.


Si is sedan only. I'd rather have the hatch.
 
2021-10-19 3:17:26 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices


Unless you manage to get a DCT or automated manual, a stick offers one thing an automatic cannot: instant acceleration. When the clutch is engaged there's no loss in the drivetrain from the engine to the transmission. In a standard automatic, the torque converter loses energy as heat, so there's always a slight delay from when you stomp on the ledal and the car starts moving faster.
 
2021-10-19 3:18:29 PM  

lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices


Also: You can't push start an automatic.

Comes in handy if you have a dead battery.
 
2021-10-19 3:23:41 PM  

majestic: mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.

What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.


2018 Chevy Cruze
 
2021-10-19 3:26:40 PM  

Ishkur: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

And they have all shifting on the over complicated steering thing they replace the wheel with

So stick is still pointless and does nothing at all anymore. Its the embodiment of rose colored glasses and the effect nostalgia has on intelligent choices

Also: You can't push start an automatic.

Comes in handy if you have a dead battery.


it can be done, but you need to push it about 40 mph
 
2021-10-19 3:30:47 PM  

majestic: mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.

What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.


That doesn't even factor in the maintenance. Transmission fluid changes every 40,000 miles are probably a couple hundred dollars at a shop. I can change the gear oil in my 6-speed for about $40 ordered from Amsoil.
 
2021-10-19 3:42:10 PM  

mrmopar5287: majestic: mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.

What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.

That doesn't even factor in the maintenance. Transmission fluid changes every 40,000 miles are probably a couple hundred dollars at a shop. I can change the gear oil in my 6-speed for about $40 ordered from Amsoil.


Replacing a dual clutch automatic transmission - $7-15k
Replacing the clutch and flywheel on a manual - $1.2k

Transmission issues on four year old cars often total them - the repairs cost more than the car is worth.

Add in the lower cost to purchase and the theft deterrent. Fuel efficiency can go either way. People that 'know' how to drive a manual can beat even the best tuned automatics and some cars are always more efficient with a manual.
 
2021-10-19 3:43:09 PM  

mrmopar5287: majestic: mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.

What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.

That doesn't even factor in the maintenance. Transmission fluid changes every 40,000 miles are probably a couple hundred dollars at a shop. I can change the gear oil in my 6-speed for about $40 ordered from Amsoil.


Hmmm, from Motortrend:

EPA fuel economy ratings for the 2018 Cruze sedan are 27/40 mpg city/highway for the manual and 29/40 mpg with the automatic.

Changing the fluid on an automatic is no more difficult to do than on a manual.

I like a manual for a weekend or occasional use vehicle. I have a 1986 SVO with a 5 speed. No way in hell I'd want to daily drive that thing around here. Too many hills and too much traffic.
 
2021-10-19 3:46:34 PM  

madgonad: mrmopar5287: majestic: mrmopar5287: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless unless you are a race car driver.

The automatic transmission option in my car was $1,600 and it gives you worse fuel economy. My 6-speed manual achieves 7 more mpg in highway driving.

What car? That hasn't been the case for a long time.

That doesn't even factor in the maintenance. Transmission fluid changes every 40,000 miles are probably a couple hundred dollars at a shop. I can change the gear oil in my 6-speed for about $40 ordered from Amsoil.

Replacing a dual clutch automatic transmission - $7-15k
Replacing the clutch and flywheel on a manual - $1.2k

Transmission issues on four year old cars often total them - the repairs cost more than the car is worth.

Add in the lower cost to purchase and the theft deterrent. Fuel efficiency can go either way. People that 'know' how to drive a manual can beat even the best tuned automatics and some cars are always more efficient with a manual.


Don't pretty much all manufacturers offer 5 years/100k on the powertrain these days?
 
2021-10-19 3:57:40 PM  

Ishkur: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless

Stick is useful for actually paying attention to the road and avoiding distractions or boredom (or sleepiness) that might cause accidents.


Only city driving, highway is equally boring. Also I once rear ended someone in my 5spd Subaru because I was coming off night shift and microsleeped in stop and go traffic. Stayed in first gear and just feathered the clutch. So that's a BS excuse really. Once you get good enough switching gears is automatic muscle memory.
 
2021-10-19 4:04:25 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: Myk-House of El: Article didn't indicate if Si trim is available on the hatch, because that would interest me.  Since I'm not commuting any longer and generally won't have to encounter dense stop and go traffic, definitely interested in having a manual in my daily driver again.

Si is sedan only. I'd rather have the hatch.


Well that's disappointing.  The Civic is now about the size of my 15 year old Accord, so I feel like it could slot in nicely as a replacement.
 
2021-10-19 4:04:36 PM  

majestic: EPA fuel economy ratings for the 2018 Cruze sedan are 27/40 mpg city/highway for the manual and 29/40 mpg with the automatic.


Fark user imageView Full Size


majestic: Changing the fluid on an automatic is no more difficult to do than on a manual.


Except when you get these magic words in the owner's manual: "The vehicle is not equipped with a transmission fluid level dipstick. There is a special procedure for checking and changing the transmission fluid. Because this procedure is difficult, this should be done at the dealer. Contact the dealer for additional information."

With my manual gearbox I can use a hex-head wrench to drain it from the bottom plug and then I fill it with 2.5 liters of synthetic fluid. Easily done.
 
2021-10-19 4:13:55 PM  

majestic: Don't pretty much all manufacturers offer 5 years/100k on the powertrain these days?


After teaching the fourth person how to drive a manual on it, my Mazda 5 (yes, a small minivan with a MANUAL) needed the clutch / flywheel replaced. Never had to replace anything on a manual in 35 years (I have never owned an automatic transmission). It cost $1,300 to replace the transmission on an 11 year old car.

Compare that to my neighbor's Flex that was not quite 5 years old. Off warranty. New trannie was $9,200.
 
2021-10-19 4:14:56 PM  

Ishkur: lifeslammer: Stick is pointless

Stick is useful for actually paying attention to the road and avoiding distractions or boredom (or sleepiness) that might cause accidents.


And making even an econobox fun to drive.
 
2021-10-19 4:21:36 PM  
I would say that I'm thinking about the Civic Si. My daughter (just turned 16) wants my eight year old Veloster. They are only making the Veloster N now - the base and turbo lines are gone - so I don't have an option for just getting a new Hyundai. I'm a cheap-ass and like smaller cars - so it is between a base Miata and the Si. The new WRX is a maybe. Lots of issues with them in the past and it is a refresh year. All of the other 'hot hatches' insist on putting summer tires on their speedier trim lines and won't do swap-outs (they would rather sell you a second set of tires). Since where I live can have temps under 40 for about 6 months out of the year the hassle of swapping summer/all-season tires is stupid.

/probably my last ICE car
//in ten years batteries will have sorted themselves out
 
2021-10-19 4:23:49 PM  

mrmopar5287: majestic: EPA fuel economy ratings for the 2018 Cruze sedan are 27/40 mpg city/highway for the manual and 29/40 mpg with the automatic.

[Fark user image 806x568]

majestic: Changing the fluid on an automatic is no more difficult to do than on a manual.

Except when you get these magic words in the owner's manual: "The vehicle is not equipped with a transmission fluid level dipstick. There is a special procedure for checking and changing the transmission fluid. Because this procedure is difficult, this should be done at the dealer. Contact the dealer for additional information."

With my manual gearbox I can use a hex-head wrench to drain it from the bottom plug and then I fill it with 2.5 liters of synthetic fluid. Easily done.


Ah, didn't know you had the diesel. Not sure if the difference in mileage vs. fuel cost works out, though. But it should last forever.

If you can change fluid on a manual, you can change fluid on an automatic. Many/most manuals don't have a dipstick to check the level, either. Literally just did the fluid change on the SVO a couple of weeks ago. Take out top plug first (in case it is messed up, and then you have no fluid in the case), then take out the bottom plug and drain. Refill with a funnel and tube until fluid comes out the top hole. Automatic is not much different other than dropping the pan and replacing the filter.
 
2021-10-19 4:48:32 PM  

majestic: Not sure if the difference in mileage vs. fuel cost works out, though.


One RPO code on the gasoline models is "91 OCTANE RECOMMENDED" because they are all turbocharged. When you factor in the 50-100¢ price premium on 91 octane, diesel is very competitive.
 
2021-10-19 4:51:24 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: Darth Funjamin: Now if Honda would bring back coupes...

Why?  Nobody buys coupes anymore.  A

If anything, they should bring back an updated Element.


That car was awesome in my early 20s. Taking friends out for their birthdays, they could get super drunk, barf (or worse) in the car and all you had to do was pull the drain plug and hose it out. Vinyl floors are great.
 
2021-10-19 5:09:19 PM  

austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."


My parents never had a car with a stick growing up (in the '70s). I learned to drive one from my boss at my first job, delivering furniture for a Mom and Pop furniture store.  The trucks there were a "3 on a tree" Ford cargo van and an F-350 with a cargo Box and 4 speed manual.

The family cars available for my kids to drive have always included at least one with a stick but neither has shown enough interest in learning to drive one to actually ask for a lesson.  At this point it's almost too late.
 
2021-10-19 5:11:52 PM  
I'm just glad the new Civics toned down the fake plastic grilles and other boy-racer elements, and got rid of that weird cut in the lip above the front grille. The last-gen Civics were odd-looking I thought, and took on some of the worst of the Subaru WRX's styling notes.
 
2021-10-19 5:16:18 PM  

steve_wmn: The trucks there were a "3 on a tree" Ford cargo van


I didn't learn on a 3 on a tree, but I have driven two vehicles with that setup (1946 Ford and 1971 Toyota FJ 40).  While the next generation of my family has learned stick, I'm the youngest member of my family that's done 3 on a tree.  And I'm closer to 50 than 40.
 
2021-10-19 5:18:56 PM  

spiralscratch: I'm just glad the new Civics toned down the fake plastic grilles and other boy-racer elements, and got rid of that weird cut in the lip above the front grille. The last-gen Civics were odd-looking I thought, and took on some of the worst of the Subaru WRX's styling notes.


Hard agree.  They are popular within my neighborhood and even the basic trim levels are at best "busy" with the aggressive styling cues.  I know they are good cars, but it looked so tacky to me I'd never have considered it.
 
2021-10-19 5:19:07 PM  
Honestly, I think driving a car with a manual transmission is about a relevant as writing in cursive. It can be done, but the world is moving on and the skillset will be lost before long, like writing in shorthand.
 
2021-10-19 5:51:50 PM  

mrmopar5287: majestic: EPA fuel economy ratings for the 2018 Cruze sedan are 27/40 mpg city/highway for the manual and 29/40 mpg with the automatic.

[Fark user image image 806x568]

majestic: Changing the fluid on an automatic is no more difficult to do than on a manual.

Except when you get these magic words in the owner's manual: "The vehicle is not equipped with a transmission fluid level dipstick. There is a special procedure for checking and changing the transmission fluid. Because this procedure is difficult, this should be done at the dealer. Contact the dealer for additional information."

With my manual gearbox I can use a hex-head wrench to drain it from the bottom plug and then I fill it with 2.5 liters of synthetic fluid. Easily done.


the Mrs. had a jetta like that

now she drives a crosstrek with a 6 speed and it has a dipstick for the manualtransmission

and the oil filter is on top of the motor, just pop the hood and it's right there (ground clearance on the xtrek also allows for draining the oil without any jacks/ramps)

/i wish subaru stuck with the awd for the brz
 
2021-10-19 6:09:01 PM  

petec: the Mrs. had a jetta like that


VW is the DSG that I would trust. Change the fluid every 40,000 miles and they are a good transmission. You can do that yourself at home.
 
2021-10-19 6:12:56 PM  
I like stick coupes. It's just me and I don't need or want four doors. My current coupe is at end of life (250K miles, transmission growls, clutch slips) and given how awful the car market is I would just get it repaired and squeeze a few more years out of it but the dealer can't get the parts. Alas, it's hard to find a new one that isn't a gazillion dollars. As another said, too bad the Civic doesn't come in a coupe any more.
 
2021-10-19 7:33:55 PM  

steve_wmn: austerity101: Boomers:  [don't bother to teach young people how to drive manual transmission cars]
Also Boomers:  "Haha you can't drive stick! You're so dumb."

My parents never had a car with a stick growing up (in the '70s). I learned to drive one from my boss at my first job, delivering furniture for a Mom and Pop furniture store.  The trucks there were a "3 on a tree" Ford cargo van and an F-350 with a cargo Box and 4 speed manual.

The family cars available for my kids to drive have always included at least one with a stick but neither has shown enough interest in learning to drive one to actually ask for a lesson.  At this point it's almost too late.


it's much easier if they already have the steer, brake, and manage traffic stuff done

find a small incline in a parking lot when the business is closed (or other suitable area) point the car uphill and teach them to hold the car from rolling backwards with the clutch, a little up, a little back..(repeat a few times)

then explain why they shouldn't burn the clutch like that during normal driving
 
2021-10-19 7:43:41 PM  

Ethertap: TheGreatGazoo: Darth Funjamin: Now if Honda would bring back coupes...

Why?  Nobody buys coupes anymore.  A

If anything, they should bring back an updated Element.

That car was awesome in my early 20s. Taking friends out for their birthdays, they could get super drunk, barf (or worse) in the car and all you had to do was pull the drain plug and hose it out. Vinyl floors are great.


i bet you're fun at parties
 
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