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(Some Guy)   At long last, Illinois Democrats teach Republicans a thing or two about redistricting   (illinoispolicy.org) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Illinois, Chicago, United States House of Representatives, congressional map, United States, Abraham Lincoln, Illinois' General Assembly, George W. Bush  
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3615 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Oct 2021 at 11:02 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-17 9:15:47 AM  
files.illinoispolicy.orgView Full Size


It's like some sort of futuristic super sophisticated computer generated this thing.
 
2021-10-17 9:17:57 AM  
TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.
 
2021-10-17 9:37:23 AM  

Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.


Good for Democrats to not try and compete with the republicans with one armed tied behind their back.

So, to put it succinctly. Nuts to your concerns.
 
2021-10-17 9:38:10 AM  
@Redistrict calls it dummymandering because Dems made competitive seats where they didn't need to.
 
2021-10-17 9:53:04 AM  
Gerrymandering sucks no matter who is doing it.
However it gives me great joy to see the Demonrats playing Rethuglican games.
I'd be very happy if a Rethuglican lawsuit succeeded against this sort of thing, because then it would mean the Rethuglicans themselves would not be able to do it anymore. But they'll just mewl and puke and whine and do nothing because it's all part of the game.
 
2021-10-17 10:45:34 AM  
Pointing out that Gerrymandering is bad doesn't mean you have unilaterally disarm yourself.
 
2021-10-17 11:03:14 AM  
 
2021-10-17 11:07:27 AM  

aaronx: Pointing out that Gerrymandering is bad doesn't mean you have unilaterally disarm yourself.


Thus turning American politics into more of an arms race and less of a democracy.
 
2021-10-17 11:07:28 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 11:09:27 AM  
Good. Fark Republicans.
 
2021-10-17 11:10:10 AM  

GardenWeasel: @Redistrict calls it dummymandering because Dems made competitive seats where they didn't need to.


Yeah, apparently this is just the worst of both worlds.

Gerrymandered to hell, but gerrymandered poorly.
 
2021-10-17 11:11:08 AM  
Fark IP. Nothing but a right wing hack rag anyway
 
2021-10-17 11:14:05 AM  

guinsu: aaronx: Pointing out that Gerrymandering is bad doesn't mean you have unilaterally disarm yourself.

Thus turning American politics into more of an arms race and less of a democracy.


I think that time has come and gone.  I am not certainly when exactly but R's demonstrated on 1/6 they don't consider D's to be legitimate office holders.  A majority of R's think Biden is not the legitimate president.  R's are writing laws and warping election machinery to prevent D's from being elected.  I am not optimistic about America's future as an attempted coup was narrowly averted.  Difficult times are ahead.
 
2021-10-17 11:14:45 AM  
"It's appalling that fair representation, keeping communities of interest together, and transparency in the mapmaking process in Illinois all had to take a back seat to the demands of national politics," Illinois GOP Chairman Don Tracy said, without a hint of self-awareness or irony.
 
2021-10-17 11:14:53 AM  

Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.


From a quick skim through the census results almost all that population loss was from rural, mostly red, countries, while mostly blue places like Chicago gained population.

So yeah, it was a Republican district that they lost.
 
2021-10-17 11:16:37 AM  

guinsu: aaronx: Pointing out that Gerrymandering is bad doesn't mean you have unilaterally disarm yourself.

Thus turning American politics into more of an arms race and less of a democracy.


Republicans play to win and will install fascism to prevent an overturning of their power. Democratic Party doing dirty work to level the playing field might not be technically moral, but it is actually moral if the other side has actually killed to get their way in the past (and when I mean killed, I mean the US Civil War, KKK and other racist attacks on non-whites and non-Christians, the refusal of Republicans to install needed viral prevention measures during a pandemic, etc).
 
2021-10-17 11:16:37 AM  
Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.
 
2021-10-17 11:19:52 AM  

Gubbo: Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.

Good for Democrats to not try and compete with the republicans with one armed tied behind their back.

So, to put it succinctly. Nuts to your concerns.


I thought we would be closer to 10 entries before we got to the but, but, but republicans.....  Glad Gubbo got it over early..
 
2021-10-17 11:20:47 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.


Who's this we that you're talking about.

Most people seem perfectly happy that Democrats aren't deliberately shooting themselves in the foot.
 
2021-10-17 11:21:12 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.


What are you talking about, SCOTUS said this is okay. Democrats doing this to protect the country from RWNJs is as constitutional and necessary as using impeachment to remove a dangerous president like TFG.
 
2021-10-17 11:22:46 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.


Fark off with that shiat. We'll give up gerrymandering when they do.
 
2021-10-17 11:22:58 AM  

jpo2269: Gubbo: Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.

Good for Democrats to not try and compete with the republicans with one armed tied behind their back.

So, to put it succinctly. Nuts to your concerns.

I thought we would be closer to 10 entries before we got to the but, but, but republicans.....  Glad Gubbo got it over early..


It's not but Republicans. It's fark this pretend "Democrats have to play by different rules" bullshiat.

/this is coming from someone who thinks winner takes all is about the stupidest way to run an election
//and that you should have large multi-member districts so that everyone is fairly represented
///but I'm not letting ideals get in the way of practical results
 
2021-10-17 11:23:09 AM  
Until there is a NATIONAL moratorium on this shiat that actually sticks, fark em.
 
2021-10-17 11:23:19 AM  

b0rscht: Gerrymandering sucks no matter who is doing it.
However it gives me great joy to see the Demonrats playing Rethuglican games.
I'd be very happy if a Rethuglican lawsuit succeeded against this sort of thing, because then it would mean the Rethuglicans themselves would not be able to do it anymore. But they'll just mewl and puke and whine and do nothing because it's all part of the game.


It's hilarious that you think Republicans won't find a way to carve out exceptions for themselves.
 
2021-10-17 11:24:20 AM  
Following interstates to connect the major cities makes sense.  For example, the yellow band that follows the interstate from Champaign-Decatur-Springfield-St.Louis connects all of the educated people in the middle of the state.  Champaign and Springfield have more in common than Champaign and 5 miles outside of Champaign.
 
2021-10-17 11:25:20 AM  
There clearly needs to be some kind of neutral third party that handles these maps based on data and not politics. I don't think that'll ever happen, because uh.. tradition I guess?
 
2021-10-17 11:25:40 AM  

jpo2269: Gubbo: Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.

Good for Democrats to not try and compete with the republicans with one armed tied behind their back.

So, to put it succinctly. Nuts to your concerns.

I thought we would be closer to 10 entries before we got to the but, but, but republicans.....  Glad Gubbo got it over early..


You just love Republican talking points, don't you?
 
2021-10-17 11:26:22 AM  

guinsu: aaronx: Pointing out that Gerrymandering is bad doesn't mean you have unilaterally disarm yourself.

Thus turning American politics into more of an arms race and less of a democracy.


You have to fight for fairness. You can't roll over and hope for belly-scritches from Republicans. Here in Michigan we fought for a balanced Redistricting commission and got that. Now we have to fight for that commission to be allowed to do it's job.

Your purity is noted but isn't terribly helpful.
 
2021-10-17 11:26:58 AM  

WhackingDay: There clearly needs to be some kind of neutral third party that handles these maps based on data and not politics. I don't think that'll ever happen, because uh.. tradition I guess?


Ah, neutrality. Like the Supreme Court!
 
2021-10-17 11:27:13 AM  

WhackingDay: There clearly needs to be some kind of neutral third party that handles these maps based on data and not politics. I don't think that'll ever happen, because uh.. tradition I guess?


I believe this is the type of situation where you yell states rights and hope that there are no follow-up questions
 
2021-10-17 11:27:28 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.


"When we meant fight like republicans, we meant lose and let the Republican party put mechanisms in place that ensure they're in power forever regardless of popular support for the other party, but do it in a way that makes us FEEL good about ourselves."
 
2021-10-17 11:28:31 AM  

b0rscht: Demonrats ...Rethuglicans


Cringe
 
2021-10-17 11:29:45 AM  

Target Builder: Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.

From a quick skim through the census results almost all that population loss was from rural, mostly red, countries, while mostly blue places like Chicago gained population.

So yeah, it was a Republican district that they lost.


Illinois lost the congressional seat only because Chicago and other urban areas did not grow as fast to offset the loss of population in the rural areas, especially in the southern portion of the state.
 
2021-10-17 11:34:23 AM  

Destructor: [files.illinoispolicy.org image 404x702]

It's like some sort of futuristic super sophisticated computer generated this thing.


How about this one from Texas's new map?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 11:34:37 AM  

Corn_Fed: Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.

Fark off with that shiat. We'll give up gerrymandering when they do.


They remind me of the slaveholders in the antebellum period -- "we have capital invested" -- "we'll buy you out at a premium" -- "it's not all actually about money, because, reasons"

The Democratic Party is the only one offering to both use gerrymandering with one hand, while offering to end it all with the other.

And the GQP is there saying that they'd rather continue with gerrymandering and worse, while complaining disingenuously about Democrat gerrymandering, BSABSVR, blah, blah, blah.
 
2021-10-17 11:35:32 AM  

Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.


Illinois lost a whole 18,124 people. Such massive depopulating (/eyeroll).

Meanwhile the Chicago metro grew by 157,397. Granted that's a growth rate of 1.6% versus about 6.4% for the US at large, so it did grow slower than average. The combined statistical area including regions along the border of the MSA saw growth of 300,939 and 3.1% which is closer but still slower. That means the loss of population isn't because Chicago (which is extraordinarily blue) shrank. It's because the rest of the state did.

As someone born and raised in NW Tennessee, I can tell you a fair bit about southern (and deeply red) Illinois. Part of the issue is that outside of farming there's not much else to do. The oil derricks are small self-sufficient platforms that don't need much crewing, and the old coal mining jobs are mostly dead and gone. Without coal to anchor communities, southern Illinois doesn't have much to offer which would entice companies to locate there. Sure there's the Mississippi and Ohio rivers, but those are literally on the border. Huge chunks of southern Illinois are nowhere near easily navigable rivers, and the rail system in the region as a whole is terrible. Sure, it exists, but who really wants to deal with constant trail derailments of anhydrous ammonia or whatever else that one Honeywell plant is using these days. Really doesn't make it an attractive place for industry if there's no easy way to bring in supplies and the few ways that do exist are dangerous to use.

Oh, and it's in the New Madrid fault zone so there's a chance that large swaths of the area just liquify under your feet or get flooded out. See also: Reelfoot Lake.
 
2021-10-17 11:36:27 AM  
Fine, I guess to fight those dang corrupt Chicago Democrats the Republicans in Congress should propose and vote for legislation making it illegal to draw districts for partisan advantage. They could probably even get a few "honest" Democrats to cosponsor it. That would really show the corruption of Pelosi and her supporters.
 
2021-10-17 11:36:48 AM  

Destructor: [files.illinoispolicy.org image 404x702]

It's like some sort of futuristic super sophisticated computer generated this thing.


The GerryManTron 3000™.  For all your gerrymandering needs.
 
2021-10-17 11:36:51 AM  

guinsu: Thus turning American politics into more of an arms race and less of a democracy.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 11:40:40 AM  
It's pretty telling that Democrats need to gerrymander in order to pick up seats.

They've claimed the high road for decades when it came to redistricting. Now that they barely have control of the House they've abandoned the opportunity to make good on their rhetoric in favor of doing what they've criticized Republicans for doing.

Looks like Dems are well aware that they are in for a beating come 2022 and are willing to compromise their principles when convenient.

/b b but both sides are bad
 
2021-10-17 11:43:51 AM  

WhackingDay: There clearly needs to be some kind of neutral third party that handles these maps based on data and not politics. I don't think that'll ever happen, because uh.. tradition I guess?


Iowa has it, but there was apparently a loophole left that allows it to be overridden. apparently the non-partisan computer generated maps (that only take population numbers into account, not demographics, etc) have to be approved by the state legislature

apparently if they're rejected three times the state legislature gets to make the map

can you guess what the republicans are doing this year, for the first time since the law was passed?  rejecting the maps.
 
2021-10-17 11:44:50 AM  

Sumo Surfer: It's pretty telling that Democrats need to gerrymander in order to pick up seats.

They've claimed the high road for decades when it came to redistricting. Now that they barely have control of the House they've abandoned the opportunity to make good on their rhetoric in favor of doing what they've criticized Republicans for doing.

Looks like Dems are well aware that they are in for a beating come 2022 and are willing to compromise their principles when convenient.

/b b but both sides are bad


A MAGAt says what
 
2021-10-17 11:45:23 AM  
In true Democratic fashion, they made their districts WORSE. Dems made their choice of districts LESS efficient.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 11:45:53 AM  

Sumo Surfer: It's pretty telling that Democrats need to gerrymander in order to pick up seats.

They've claimed the high road for decades when it came to redistricting. Now that they barely have control of the House they've abandoned the opportunity to make good on their rhetoric in favor of doing what they've criticized Republicans for doing.

Looks like Dems are well aware that they are in for a beating come 2022 and are willing to compromise their principles when convenient.

/b b but both sides are bad


Show me a way to end partisan redistricting without abusing it to the point where all parties involved realize that they can no longer use partisan redistricting to circumvent the will of the people to end partisan redistricting. I'll wait.
 
2021-10-17 11:50:32 AM  

Gubbo: Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.

Who's this we that you're talking about.

Most people seem perfectly happy that Democrats aren't deliberately shooting themselves in the foot.


I'm perfectly fine with using the laws that are in place to our advantage. fark republicans, beat them in the yard with a crooked stick. But this plan is endangering safe Dem districts.
 
2021-10-17 11:51:47 AM  

WhackingDay: There clearly needs to be some kind of neutral third party that handles these maps based on data and not politics. I don't think that'll ever happen, because uh.. tradition I guess?


Geometry. Simple rules of geometry could end all the ratfarking short of physically moving populations around, and dont count that out.
 
2021-10-17 11:54:02 AM  

Destructor: TL;DR: is that because Illinois (D) is depopulating--and who knows why that is--they lost a congressional seat. Before, they had 2 Republican seats. Now they have one. Of course, the seat they lost was a Republican seat. And the above picture depicts the dance they're doing to make that happen.


While I am no fan of the concept of democracy, it would be nice for those that pretend it's a good idea to at least, you know, pretend to care about it.
 
2021-10-17 11:56:08 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Democrats do not seem to understand that when we ask them to fight like republicans, we mean stand up for yourselves, not do the same corrupt bullshiat.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 11:58:14 AM  

Sumo Surfer: It's pretty telling that Democrats need to gerrymander in order to pick up seats.

They've claimed the high road for decades when it came to redistricting. Now that they barely have control of the House they've abandoned the opportunity to make good on their rhetoric in favor of doing what they've criticized Republicans for doing.

Looks like Dems are well aware that they are in for a beating come 2022 and are willing to compromise their principles when convenient.

/b b but both sides are bad


At least the Dems have principles to compromise.
 
2021-10-17 11:59:01 AM  

The Madd Mann: Sumo Surfer: It's pretty telling that Democrats need to gerrymander in order to pick up seats.

They've claimed the high road for decades when it came to redistricting. Now that they barely have control of the House they've abandoned the opportunity to make good on their rhetoric in favor of doing what they've criticized Republicans for doing.

Looks like Dems are well aware that they are in for a beating come 2022 and are willing to compromise their principles when convenient.

/b b but both sides are bad

Show me a way to end partisan redistricting without abusing it to the point where all parties involved realize that they can no longer use partisan redistricting to circumvent the will of the people to end partisan redistricting. I'll wait.


100% at large districts.  Let the parties have county-level offices in each office, but have a state house with 100 members.  Party primaries are a ranked choice of 100 potential politicians for the state house.  The state-level election is a vote for parties, not individuals.  The party percentage in the state-level election determines how many representatives the party can send from the primaries (rounded down), and the party that wins the most votes gets that rounding error representative.  So if the Libertarians win 1%, they can send a representative.  If the GOP wins 40%, they get 40 representatives.

The parties can run their primaries however they want, by county or by party-invented districts.

And there goes gerrymandering.  If most people in Illinois support Democrats, then Democrats have the majority in the state house.

The same for Federal seats, the 18 seats are distributed to parties based on percentages of total state-wide votes.
 
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