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(NPR)   The "Fark you I got mine" wage system is a no go with striking employees across the country, stunning executives who are willing to destroy the future of the world for a quarterly profit today   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Interesting, Health care, Kaiser Permanente, Chrysler, Trade union, Health care provider, Employment, Patient, two-tier system  
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1685 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Oct 2021 at 8:35 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



41 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-10-16 6:39:34 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-16 7:59:12 PM  
Good. If the political class won't get their asses in gear and fix it, then the workers need to fight for their rights
 
2021-10-16 9:08:13 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-16 9:11:36 PM  
I worked in a factory with a 2 tier pay scale (thanks united steel workers) and it seemed designed to cause animosity and intense dislike between the older and higher payed workers, and us much younger people who they were counting on to keep the factory profitable. Strike now, because if not it will be an end for your factory.
 
2021-10-16 9:15:45 PM  
F***********ck the generations that took theirs and now no longer support the unions who gave them so much.

A pat on the back for the older workers still at these jobs who are striking.
 
2021-10-16 9:18:59 PM  
I think you're all missing the point: CEO's work 50-100 times harder than regular serfs so the CEO will just hit the floor and do all their jobs instantly.
 
2021-10-16 9:29:05 PM  
United Airlines pulled that crap on pilots way back in the 80s.  It cost them more dealing with the fallout than they ever saved and they gave up on it by next contract.

Management wants to divide and conquer. If labor agrees to crap like that then management wins
 
2021-10-16 9:30:18 PM  
Hey companies? We know you have the money. Your quarterly earnings reports are public, as are your C-suite pay rates. The amount to bring wages and benefits up is pocket change for you. Everybody knows it. Pay your workers enough or they will ruin your company, either by striking or just not giving a damn about their work.

Feudalism doesn't work as well as a strong and majority middle class for the economy. You'll still be rich, your stock holders will still make plenty of dividends, and your company value and sales will go up if you pay people a reasonable wage.

What's that? You say that workers should just negotiate for a better wage, like any business partner? OK. Workers negotiate by using unions and striking when you refuse to open your fat wallets. It and government regulation are the only ways people have gotten pay rates higher than a few pennies a month.

/blinded by greed
\\and wanting to have more poor people to look down on from their towers
 
2021-10-16 9:35:44 PM  
So lemme get this straight.  The Baby Boomers spent decades approving a tiered system that gave new hires (i.e., Millenials) significantly less money and benefits, not just at first but basically for their whole career, rather than concede anything themselves.  And now that many of them are retired Gen X is striking to not do that anymore.

Man, you could have knocked me over with a feather.
 
2021-10-16 9:43:17 PM  
Tough to see how you can have a "union" that's literally separated into two groups.
 
2021-10-16 9:47:21 PM  
This was literally a West Wing episode twenty years ago.
 
2021-10-16 9:49:54 PM  
Just a reminder that Deere could give every striking worker a $300k bonus and still have $3B in profit this year, which would be slightly above average margin for their industry.
 
2021-10-16 10:11:48 PM  

buzzcut73: Just a reminder that Deere could give every striking worker a $300k bonus and still have $3B in profit this year, which would be slightly above average margin for their industry.


I believe you..

But you got a cite I can throw in other faces?

/love making faces purple
 
2021-10-16 10:21:31 PM  
One huge problem is no strike clauses that most unions accept in contracts. In fact it is so standard that a IWW union in Chicago was hit with a ULP by the employer for refusing a contract with one. NLRB dismissed it because the IWW constitution forbade no strike clauses.

One reason the IWW faded into obscurity was their refusal to allow contracts at all. Contracts are the tool of the powerful to control the rest of the world. No strike clauses in particular give up your only real power to fight against unsafe conditions, wage theft, mandatory overtime, etc. They also turn unions into what most people hate, a bureaucracy built around grievance systems, mediation, etc that delay resolution for sometimes years.

Most unions now can only strike after their contract is up. These unions lucked into having contracts expire during the pandemic. If they had not given up that right, many more could be out there pushing back during a time when the employers are really struggling to get shiat done already. This is an excellent year to win back some lost ground from the last 40 years.

All the best to the workers at Deere, Kelloggs, Nabisco and everyone else on strike. And to everyone else, please steer clear of these companies until they stop shiat like mandatory 16 hour work days 6 days a week (a complaint against Kelloggs).
 
2021-10-16 11:57:44 PM  

End_Of_Line: I worked in a factory with a 2 tier pay scale (thanks united steel workers) and it seemed designed to cause animosity and intense dislike between the older and higher payed workers, and us much younger people who they were counting on to keep the factory profitable. Strike now, because if not it will be an end for your factory.


Don't lay all the blame on United Steel.

Anybody else remember the Simpson's episode where Homer used the plant's medical insurance for Minoxidil?  Remember the speech he gave at the end about workings self managing?  Seems a lot of American companies used this model to kill off all the middle management and foreman positions.  So all that was left now are worker and a few levels of executives, trapping workers in dead end jobs with no avenue for promotion.
 
2021-10-17 12:03:00 AM  

End_Of_Line: I worked in a factory with a 2 tier pay scale (thanks united steel workers) and it seemed designed to cause animosity and intense dislike between the older and higher payed workers, and us much younger people who they were counting on to keep the factory profitable. Strike now, because if not it will be an end for your factory.


I saw exactly the same thing as a civil servant 15 years ago.
 
2021-10-17 12:27:31 AM  
Universal Basic Income now.
 
2021-10-17 1:30:55 AM  
End stage capitalism problems.
 
2021-10-17 3:17:02 AM  
Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?  When I've spoken with union members across various industries...many of them lack a basic understanding of employee protections provided at a state/federal level, and only view things through the lens of their union.

Shiat, the article even says that they companies are using systems made prominent in the 80s.  For all the money the unions generate...you'd think they would've protected their members from those by now.
 
2021-10-17 9:40:27 AM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?  When I've spoken with union members across various industries...many of them lack a basic understanding of employee protections provided at a state/federal level, and only view things through the lens of their union.

Shiat, the article even says that they companies are using systems made prominent in the 80s.  For all the money the unions generate...you'd think they would've protected their members from those by now.


I'm the son of a union worker.  i appreciate that my movement up the economic ladder was facilitated by the benefits my father got from being in a union in the 60's to the 00's.  I like to see unions strengthened, not further weakened.  And, as with any other system, the way to minimize corruption is to get more involvement from all of its participants, not less.
 
2021-10-17 10:29:56 AM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?


We don't know, why do you keep paying taxes?  Government didn't fix labour's issues when they were first pointed out, it was labour that fought, bled and died for those rights, then government years or decades later (after originally opposing those rights) finally got on board.
 
2021-10-17 10:36:25 AM  
This is the part that blew my mind:  Under Kaiser's proposal, people hired after Jan. 1, 2023, would make 26% less than current levels.

So they're proposing to start new people at much less than what they make now.  Who the fark do they think they're fooling?  Is that these people?

Kaiser Permanente reported $3 billion in net income for the second quarter of the year as membership in its health plan remains steady.
The health system and insurer posted total operating revenues of $23.7 billion against total operating expenses of $23.3 billion. The revenue was slightly above the $22.1 billion it earned in the second quarter of 2020.
Kaiser noted in its earnings statement Friday that favorable financial market conditions resulted in $3 billion in net income, compared with $4.5 billion for the second quarter of 2020.
 
2021-10-17 10:44:23 AM  

Somacandra: [Homer saying you should do a half-assed job rather than strike - Fark user image 425x318]


So there is good reason not to pay them as much?
 
2021-10-17 11:35:22 AM  

DORMAMU: buzzcut73: Just a reminder that Deere could give every striking worker a $300k bonus and still have $3B in profit this year, which would be slightly above average margin for their industry.

I believe you..

But you got a cite I can throw in other faces?

/love making faces purple


Deere has 70,000 employees.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/2​7​8010/john-deere-number-of-employees-si​nce-2002/

Last year they netted 2.7 billion. That's after all their costs, as far as I know:
https://www.deere.com/en/our-company/n​ews-and-announcements/news-releases/20​20/corporate/fourth-quarter-earnings/

So, technically, they could give each employee another $30,000 in salary or benefits and still remain profitable.

This year has been even better for the company, but it isn't over yet.

Of course, actually doing this would have some pretty serious implications for the company.

I think a lot of people underestimate the complexity and technological advancements that are happening at places like Deere. If we were talking about a restaurant.... Sure. They could be profitable and make the same food forever. Awesome

But Deere and similar companies are all racing towards more tech and more automation. They want self working machines that people just turn on.

Ten years from now, food will still be food. Yes, the registers get nicer and the drive through is better, and they do advance in ways I'm glossing over, but McDonald's in 1960s could sell me food today and I'd buy it. They can afford to not keep up, IMHO.

Cars from 1960 might look cool and we might have fond memories...but they are objectively worse than modern cars in a million ways.

If Deere is just breaking even doing what it does, it won't have money to....well... Let's be honest...Deere is big enough that they will just buyout innovative companies actually advancing things, but my point remains.

Somewhere between $0 and around $30k per employee and they would still be profitable for that year. Would they remain successful....I dunno.

Only a small percentage of the employees are striking, so if you only give them money, it's a much bigger number, but isn't really a great solution as everyone who didn't get the payout would want to strike.
 
2021-10-17 2:13:21 PM  
A couple of weeks ago I submitted like, 20 link to different strikes across the USA that were all happening at the same time. They were all redlit. I don't think that Farkers really appreciate the breadth of the labour action happening in the USA right now, and the Mods definitely suppressed what could have been an illustration of just how many Americans are in such unusual, unprecedented circumstances, that they are resorting to organized labour power.

Instead, the Mods have been greenlighting articles on the News and Business tabs that dicuss the issue as disorganized employees all making individual decisions without organizing.

I didn't know, before last month, that Fark was an anti-labour website that biased it to edit out organized labour news, when it is real news, from making it to the public tabs. The distortion is very real, though. The Mod have curated a  narrative that corporations have the power to raise wages for non-unionized, non-organized, workers, which puts the power in the hands of benevolent legislators and kindly CEOs. The reality is that for the past 90 days, unionized workers have been the ones leading the change, especially the multiple nurses unions on strike  whoi are responsible for getting Covid actions put into place (and I didn't even submit all the nursing union strikes I found that day).
 
2021-10-17 2:53:40 PM  

cryinoutloud: This is the part that blew my mind:  Under Kaiser's proposal, people hired after Jan. 1, 2023, would make 26% less than current levels.

So they're proposing to start new people at much less than what they make now.  Who the fark do they think they're fooling?  Is that these people?

Kaiser Permanente reported $3 billion in net income for the second quarter of the year as membership in its health plan remains steady.
The health system and insurer posted total operating revenues of $23.7 billion against total operating expenses of $23.3 billion. The revenue was slightly above the $22.1 billion it earned in the second quarter of 2020.
Kaiser noted in its earnings statement Friday that favorable financial market conditions resulted in $3 billion in net income, compared with $4.5 billion for the second quarter of 2020.


And they insist they need to pay doctors,  nurses, and technicians less money in the middle of a goddamned pandemic to "stay competitive ."
 
2021-10-17 3:41:30 PM  

Somacandra: [Fark user image image 425x318]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 3:42:04 PM  

nakmuay: [Fark user image image 506x279]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 3:43:00 PM  

puffy999: F***********ck the generations that took theirs and now no longer support the unions who gave them so much.

A pat on the back for the older workers still at these jobs who are striking.


Capitalism: the Jungle by other means
 
2021-10-17 3:44:10 PM  

edmo: United Airlines pulled that crap on pilots way back in the 80s.  It cost them more dealing with the fallout than they ever saved and they gave up on it by next contract.

Management wants to divide and conquer. If labor agrees to crap like that then management wins


Managements wealthy owners want to divide and conquer
 
2021-10-17 3:45:02 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: Hey companies? We know you have the money. Your quarterly earnings reports are public, as are your C-suite pay rates. The amount to bring wages and benefits up is pocket change for you. Everybody knows it. Pay your workers enough or they will ruin your company, either by striking or just not giving a damn about their work.

Feudalism doesn't work as well as a strong and majority middle class for the economy. You'll still be rich, your stock holders will still make plenty of dividends, and your company value and sales will go up if you pay people a reasonable wage.

What's that? You say that workers should just negotiate for a better wage, like any business partner? OK. Workers negotiate by using unions and striking when you refuse to open your fat wallets. It and government regulation are the only ways people have gotten pay rates higher than a few pennies a month.

/blinded by greed
\\and wanting to have more poor people to look down on from their towers


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 3:47:19 PM  

buzzcut73: Just a reminder that Deere could give every striking worker a $300k bonus and still have $3B in profit this year, which would be slightly above average margin for their industry.


But what would their precious lazy sit at home stock owners think??
 
2021-10-17 3:49:18 PM  

BolloxReader: One huge problem is no strike clauses that most unions accept in contracts. In fact it is so standard that a IWW union in Chicago was hit with a ULP by the employer for refusing a contract with one. NLRB dismissed it because the IWW constitution forbade no strike clauses.

One reason the IWW faded into obscurity was their refusal to allow contracts at all. Contracts are the tool of the powerful to control the rest of the world. No strike clauses in particular give up your only real power to fight against unsafe conditions, wage theft, mandatory overtime, etc. They also turn unions into what most people hate, a bureaucracy built around grievance systems, mediation, etc that delay resolution for sometimes years.

Most unions now can only strike after their contract is up. These unions lucked into having contracts expire during the pandemic. If they had not given up that right, many more could be out there pushing back during a time when the employers are really struggling to get shiat done already. This is an excellent year to win back some lost ground from the last 40 years.

All the best to the workers at Deere, Kelloggs, Nabisco and everyone else on strike. And to everyone else, please steer clear of these companies until they stop shiat like mandatory 16 hour work days 6 days a week (a complaint against Kelloggs).


Their lazy sit at home stock owners have great hours!
 
2021-10-17 3:50:13 PM  

hammettman: End stage capitalism problems.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-17 3:51:48 PM  

Psychohazard: DeathByGeekSquad: Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?  When I've spoken with union members across various industries...many of them lack a basic understanding of employee protections provided at a state/federal level, and only view things through the lens of their union.

Shiat, the article even says that they companies are using systems made prominent in the 80s.  For all the money the unions generate...you'd think they would've protected their members from those by now.

I'm the son of a union worker.  i appreciate that my movement up the economic ladder was facilitated by the benefits my father got from being in a union in the 60's to the 00's.  I like to see unions strengthened, not further weakened.  And, as with any other system, the way to minimize corruption is to get more involvement from all of its participants, not less.


Yep

Real change always happens at the grass roots level first
 
2021-10-17 3:53:07 PM  

Deathbymeteor: DeathByGeekSquad: Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?

We don't know, why do you keep paying taxes?  Government didn't fix labour's issues when they were first pointed out, it was labour that fought, bled and died for those rights, then government years or decades later (after originally opposing those rights) finally got on board.


Bec big business and the rich own capital hill
 
2021-10-17 3:54:36 PM  

cryinoutloud: This is the part that blew my mind:  Under Kaiser's proposal, people hired after Jan. 1, 2023, would make 26% less than current levels.

So they're proposing to start new people at much less than what they make now.  Who the fark do they think they're fooling?  Is that these people?

Kaiser Permanente reported $3 billion in net income for the second quarter of the year as membership in its health plan remains steady.
The health system and insurer posted total operating revenues of $23.7 billion against total operating expenses of $23.3 billion. The revenue was slightly above the $22.1 billion it earned in the second quarter of 2020.
Kaiser noted in its earnings statement Friday that favorable financial market conditions resulted in $3 billion in net income, compared with $4.5 billion for the second quarter of 2020.


The less labor gets

The more lazy sit at home stock owners make
 
2021-10-17 3:55:48 PM  

Fano: cryinoutloud: This is the part that blew my mind:  Under Kaiser's proposal, people hired after Jan. 1, 2023, would make 26% less than current levels.

So they're proposing to start new people at much less than what they make now.  Who the fark do they think they're fooling?  Is that these people?

Kaiser Permanente reported $3 billion in net income for the second quarter of the year as membership in its health plan remains steady.
The health system and insurer posted total operating revenues of $23.7 billion against total operating expenses of $23.3 billion. The revenue was slightly above the $22.1 billion it earned in the second quarter of 2020.
Kaiser noted in its earnings statement Friday that favorable financial market conditions resulted in $3 billion in net income, compared with $4.5 billion for the second quarter of 2020.

And they insist they need to pay doctors,  nurses, and technicians less money in the middle of a goddamned pandemic to "stay competitive ."


No

To give lazy sit at home stock owners more
 
2021-10-17 6:22:30 PM  

aerojockey: So lemme get this straight.  The Baby Boomers spent decades approving a tiered system that gave new hires (i.e., Millenials) significantly less money and benefits, not just at first but basically for their whole career, rather than concede anything themselves.  And now that many of them are retired Gen X is striking to not do that anymore.

Man, you could have knocked me over with a feather.


Yep. So much of the sh*ttiness in unions stems from the olds in charge of the union agreeing to terms that f*ck over young people but keep them comfortable. "Seniority" has its place, but it's not substitute for equity.
 
2021-10-17 8:01:41 PM  

Psychohazard: DeathByGeekSquad: Why do people continue to pay dues to corrupt organizations that haven't managed to fix the primary problem in multiple decades?  When I've spoken with union members across various industries...many of them lack a basic understanding of employee protections provided at a state/federal level, and only view things through the lens of their union.

Shiat, the article even says that they companies are using systems made prominent in the 80s.  For all the money the unions generate...you'd think they would've protected their members from those by now.

I'm the son of a union worker.  i appreciate that my movement up the economic ladder was facilitated by the benefits my father got from being in a union in the 60's to the 00's.  I like to see unions strengthened, not further weakened.  And, as with any other system, the way to minimize corruption is to get more involvement from all of its participants, not less.


The article cites that the compensation methods being used now are the same being used in the 1980s.  That's not progress, that's ineffectiveness.  40 years of it.
 
2021-10-18 1:10:04 AM  

End_Of_Line: I worked in a factory with a 2 tier pay scale (thanks united steel workers) and it seemed designed to cause animosity and intense dislike between the older and higher payed workers, and us much younger people who they were counting on to keep the factory profitable. Strike now, because if not it will be an end for your factory.


A family member of mine was the last Civil Servant at his USPS facility.  This means lifetime Cadillac health/dental plus a generous defined benefit pension.  The young person to replace him in aggregate likely got less than half of the total compensation (their retirement plan is a crummy 401k type deal).
The two tiered system has been happening since the 1980s.  At Sears the older workers who lived long enough got to see Eddie Lampert simply steal the pension fund to light cigars with and there were no young workers to defend it and lost it all.  So beware older GenX and boomers.  And to reiterate what the union is saying, these companies can absolutely afford these benefits and pay packages.
 
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