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(Fark)   "One should fight like the devil the temptation to think well of editors. They are all, without exception - at least some of the time, incompetent or crazy." -John Gardner. This is your Fark Writer's Thread, expectation management edition   (fark.com) divider line
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402 clicks; posted to Main » and Discussion » on 13 Oct 2021 at 5:15 PM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
5 days ago  
Good news! All notices for submitters to this year's Fark Fiction Anthology have been sent, and we editors have started the process of editing all the entries which were accepted.  A great deal of the actual hard work was already done by our editor team, so all I really have to do is collate the comments and revisions and get them out to the submitters for approval, which kind of makes it hard for me to come up with excuses for not getting it done yet.  Which is kind of where the headline comes in, I guess, I'm gonna plead both of the above, at least some of the time.

If you submitted and have not heard back, please drop me a line at edit­ors­[nospam-﹫-backwards]n­oitc­i­f­kra­f*ne­t and I'll find out what happened. If your entry was accepted, please stay tuned and I'll get you an edited version to look at soon™!
 
5 days ago  
My goal was to get a completed first draft of my damn novel done before the end of the year, and I'm confident I'll make it now. By November first is my new goal.

One of my beta readers is has actually published stuff, and has a connection to a fairly high-powered professional editor. I think I'm willing to hire them to go over it and see what they have to say. I'm breaking a few 'rules', especially for a 'debut author' (Hey! I can be a debutante!), but I think I'm breaking them for decent reasons. Quite curious to see what suggestions they have.

Any tips for working with a professional editor? One you're paying, not ones a publisher assigns you?
 
5 days ago  
Lost one editor to drink.  She was there one day, just a unpredictable as ever.  Gone the next.

They had to tell the rest of us, we need not worry.   She had come from a local TV station.

It had gotten so I would write a plain, vanilla draft for the emergency drawer, then spend the rest of the week writing a much better version or two.  For every piece.  Depending on how the editor's week went, too often it was the plain, boring, uncontroversial piece that got published at deadline.

I helped recruit the next one from the local newspaper.  Then I got recruited to create software and automate the production end of the business.  Programmers are paid much better.  The grammar is a little more strict, and the audience is a little more mechanical, but it's still media.
 
5 days ago  
When I started freelancing for a smallville newspaper, I would put in silly jokes if it wasn't a serious news article. I figured, if the editor doesn't like it he can trim that part out, as that is his job. Much to my surprise, he kept my local humor in my articles. So I kept doing it, and mentioning that my grandmother was from nearby Metropolis.

After a while I became convinced he simply wasn't reading anything.
 
5 days ago  
On the other hand, without editors you get Steven King-like doorstops.
 
5 days ago  
Society doesn't have nearly enough editors.
 
5 days ago  
Here's my editor story.  I had a good editor at Bantam Spectra, but the art editor farked me.  She gave the cover of my first novel to her brother, who first was not a gifted artist, and second, made my book look like space opera.  This disappointed space opera fans who bought it, and kept fans of seriously-meant science fiction away.

I'll get over it.

When I'm dead.
 
5 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size


/editor
 
5 days ago  
While writing commercial documents and RFP responses, I was subject to an entire room full of "editors" that would ensure the font and paragraph spacing were right on, and offer not one whit of input into the content or copy.

So I started putting easter eggs in them.

The timeline provided includes current dates and deadlines as a general guideline and is subject to change at the AGENCY/ENTITY's sole discretion. Unless stated otherwise, consider the dates below to be the projected deadlines for each stage of the RFP. The following events represent events that may require dates or timeframes in the RFP process:
• Issue date
• Mandatory pre-proposal conference (optional)
• Site location survey visits (optional)
• Written questions deadline
• Bid opening date
• The Martians attack at noon
• Proposal due date (final deadline)
• Scripted demonstrations
• Anticipated award
• Contract negotiations

My boss finally caught one.  That reduced the number of "editors" significantly.
 
5 days ago  
A good editor is crucial.
 
5 days ago  

sorceror: Any tips for working with a professional editor? One you're paying, not ones a publisher assigns you?


You want an opinionated line editor, not a copy editor, someone who isn't afraid to tell you when your sections are out of order, inconsistent, or don't make any sense. Any schmuck can tell you to add a comma, it takes ego and brains to tell you the way you've presented things is confusing and that you can improve them by doing x, y, and z.

A line editor won't suggest changes so much as have queries about what you've written, so be prepared to put in a lot of work when they've finished.

If you're paying, give them the first chapter and see what they do with it.
 
5 days ago  

Spice Must Flow: After a while I became convinced he simply wasn't reading anything.


Write an article about his drug addiction and see if he publishes it.
 
5 days ago  
I just now noticed that while I got my "Your FFA entry has been approved!" email, I don't think I ever got my "and here's your edited entry for you to look over" followup email. Just now replied regarding that.
 
5 days ago  
PAGE Awards announces its winners on Friday.  I'm not so much managing my expectations as I am stocking up on whiskey.  I have St. George Baller for good news, Johnny Walker Blue for very good news, and for everything else...

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
Off-topic, sorry: I just got back into writing fiction and I'm wondering if fark has any kind of critique group or workshop, etc set up?
 
5 days ago  

Fishmongers' Daughters: Off-topic, sorry: I just got back into writing fiction and I'm wondering if fark has any kind of critique group or workshop, etc set up?


This is it.
 
5 days ago  
A former colleague drafted an ebook that required significant revisions during the writing stage, including changing a main character's name. I offered to edit it, she said 'no thanks,' and then self-published it.

80 pages into the book, the character's original name was there. It stayed that way to the end of the 90-odd page book.

She hadn't corrected every instance of it in the draft. An editor would have.

I hated to say 'I told you so,' but in all honesty, no, I didn't.
 
4 days ago  
I'm still editing stuff I wrote years ago. Even published stuff. I'll read it through and think "I could have phrased that better" and out comes the pencil. Proper proofreading marks and everything. Nobody will ever see a corrected version.
 
4 days ago  

Rent Party: While writing commercial documents and RFP responses, I was subject to an entire room full of "editors" that would ensure the font and paragraph spacing were right on, and offer not one whit of input into the content or copy.

So I started putting easter eggs in them.

The timeline provided includes current dates and deadlines as a general guideline and is subject to change at the AGENCY/ENTITY's sole discretion. Unless stated otherwise, consider the dates below to be the projected deadlines for each stage of the RFP. The following events represent events that may require dates or timeframes in the RFP process:
• Issue date
• Mandatory pre-proposal conference (optional)
• Site location survey visits (optional)
• Written questions deadline
• Bid opening date
• The Martians attack at noon
• Proposal due date (final deadline)
• Scripted demonstrations
• Anticipated award
• Contract negotiations

My boss finally caught one.  That reduced the number of "editors" significantly.


Awesome. I did something similar once- and no one noticed until a couple of weeks after the article in question had been published. Exactly one alert reader sent a letter to the editor asking about one throw-away sentence in the penultimate paragraph which urged readers to do something horribly stupid. The article was re-printed without the stupidityness, accompanied by both the reader's letter and the editor's mea culpa. I felt bad for the editor, because we were friends, and he's one of the people who encouraged me to write. I often tossed silly comments or puns into the articles I sent him just to make him laugh. Never did it again after that.
 
4 days ago  
I can't argue I'm not crazy subby, but I do around 25,000 words a week, turning whatever the community heaves our way into useful copy.

I'm not incompetent, I just don't always give a fark or have enough time in my day to pick every little nit. I make sure the grammar is right, and the pooge gets point across. The fact you couldn't turn a phrase with a nuclear-powered spatula is your problem.

I'm here to edit your shiat not write it for you.

Actually for the right price I would write it for you too, but that level of work is expensive.
 
4 days ago  

Fireproof: I just now noticed that while I got my "Your FFA entry has been approved!" email, I don't think I ever got my "and here's your edited entry for you to look over" followup email. Just now replied regarding that.


I haven't either.  I think they're still working on it.

In fact, after reading the boobies, I now know they are still working on it.
 
4 days ago  

Fishmongers' Daughters: Off-topic, sorry: I just got back into writing fiction and I'm wondering if fark has any kind of critique group or workshop, etc set up?


Every Wednesday we get together here to biatch about editors.

The Farktography folks have their own website, though.   FarkAnthologists could be a thing, no?
 
4 days ago  

Rent Party: Fireproof: I just now noticed that while I got my "Your FFA entry has been approved!" email, I don't think I ever got my "and here's your edited entry for you to look over" followup email. Just now replied regarding that.

I haven't either.  I think they're still working on it.

In fact, after reading the boobies, I now know they are still working on it.


Emailed about mine last night (I was in the middle of a weekend getaway when I got the news I had been selected and may have forgotten about any followup emails) and got a prompt reply that they were still working on them.
 
4 days ago  

Creepy Lurker Guy: Spice Must Flow: After a while I became convinced he simply wasn't reading anything.

Write an article about his drug addiction and see if he publishes it.


LOL

Actually, he did decline to print an article I wrote, which ended up becoming very inspirational. He never gave me feedback, just sometimes an article I freelanced never got printed.

After writing a 1000 word article and not getting paid, I started writing shorter articles, but include a nice photo, better than their non-journalist staff normally took with their cell phone. A photo got me $25, or $35 if it was on the page. At 8 cents per word, a picture is worth 312 words.
 
4 days ago  
Hugo (and other) award winning Charlie Stross refers to all the self-publishing as "the World-Wide Slushpile".

There are would-be writers who a) don't know what a beta reader is; b) don't know what a copy editor is.

I am *not* self-publishing. My first novel (11,000 Years) was published by Ring of Fire Press... and after the first submission, the real editor gave me some suggestions that did make the book a good bit better. Remember, they've read more crap than you have, given it's their job.

Self-publish? In addition to the copy editor, and paying for cover art, exactly how much are you, personally, prepared to pay for advertising? <shakes head> One of my beta readers had published a novel in 2015. I read it, not bad. He'd sold about 4 copies; just dumped it on Amazon, and that was it.
 
4 days ago  

Spice Must Flow: Creepy Lurker Guy: Spice Must Flow: After a while I became convinced he simply wasn't reading anything.

Write an article about his drug addiction and see if he publishes it.

LOL

Actually, he did decline to print an article I wrote, which ended up becoming very inspirational. He never gave me feedback, just sometimes an article I freelanced never got printed.

After writing a 1000 word article and not getting paid, I started writing shorter articles, but include a nice photo, better than their non-journalist staff normally took with their cell phone. A photo got me $25, or $35 if it was on the page. At 8 cents per word, a picture is worth 312 words.


Heh.

I'm still kind of miffed that Cracked pulled the plug on a life experience article I and a friend had written for them about working on a cruise ship. They greenlit it for publishing, then without explanation, the top-level editors redlit it and never published it. Years later I learned that there were so many life experience articles that, with the subjects' permission, a mid-level editor ran a blog that was just publishing all the redlit life-experience articles. I never got paid for it, but at least that article that I helped write finally saw the light of day, albeit on an obscure blog instead of 2015 Cracked.

After that I quickly lost interest in the article or two that I was working on writing for them, although I think one had been killed because I misunderstood the editor saying that a sports-themed article would be a "hard sell" as in a hard thing to sell.

/Just as well, the site was quickly going down the tubes at that point.
 
4 days ago  

whitroth: Hugo (and other) award winning Charlie Stross refers to all the self-publishing as "the World-Wide Slushpile".

There are would-be writers who a) don't know what a beta reader is; b) don't know what a copy editor is.

I am *not* self-publishing. My first novel (11,000 Years) was published by Ring of Fire Press... and after the first submission, the real editor gave me some suggestions that did make the book a good bit better. Remember, they've read more crap than you have, given it's their job.

Self-publish? In addition to the copy editor, and paying for cover art, exactly how much are you, personally, prepared to pay for advertising? <shakes head> One of my beta readers had published a novel in 2015. I read it, not bad. He'd sold about 4 copies; just dumped it on Amazon, and that was it.


I'd never be able to find it again, but sometime in the 2000s there was a hilarious thread with a perfect example of the kind of "I can't even tell if they're native English speakers" garbage that got self-published.

/Can't find it because the gibberish was in the headline, and I'd have to be able to remember gibberish
//Something incoherent about being impressed by how much a waiter could balance
 
4 days ago  

Fireproof: whitroth: Hugo (and other) award winning Charlie Stross refers to all the self-publishing as "the World-Wide Slushpile".

There are would-be writers who a) don't know what a beta reader is; b) don't know what a copy editor is.

I am *not* self-publishing. My first novel (11,000 Years) was published by Ring of Fire Press... and after the first submission, the real editor gave me some suggestions that did make the book a good bit better. Remember, they've read more crap than you have, given it's their job.

Self-publish? In addition to the copy editor, and paying for cover art, exactly how much are you, personally, prepared to pay for advertising? <shakes head> One of my beta readers had published a novel in 2015. I read it, not bad. He'd sold about 4 copies; just dumped it on Amazon, and that was it.

I'd never be able to find it again, but sometime in the 2000s there was a hilarious thread with a perfect example of the kind of "I can't even tell if they're native English speakers" garbage that got self-published.

/Can't find it because the gibberish was in the headline, and I'd have to be able to remember gibberish
//Something incoherent about being impressed by how much a waiter could balance


I am absolutely not a fan of self published works, as most of them suck ass.


But!  Scalzi self published Old Man's War, so it sometimes works out.
 
4 days ago  

Rent Party: I am absolutely not a fan of self published works, as most of them suck ass.

But!  Scalzi self published Old Man's War, so it sometimes works out.


"It is in this vein that I repeat Sturgeon's Revelation, which was wrung out of me after twenty years of wearying defense of science fiction against attacks of people who used the worst examples of the field for ammunition, and whose conclusion was that ninety percent of SF is crud. The Revelation:

Ninety percent of everything is crud.

Corollary 1: The existence of immense quantities of trash in science fiction is admitted and it is regrettable; but it is no more unnatural than the existence of trash anywhere.

Corollary 2: The best science fiction is as good as the best fiction in any field." - Theodore Sturgeon, 1958, defending science fiction from a whole lotta critics.

It's not surprising that the large majority of self-published stuff sucks ass. Note that "The Martian" was released serially for free, first, and then collected into a novel and self-published on Amazon for 99 cents. Then it was discovered and 'traditionally published'.

Quite possibly self-published stuff has more crap than other modalities. A lack of gatekeepers/curators can do that. But it also allows for stuff that's good that the gatekeepers might sneer at/not recognize.
 
4 days ago  
I've had good editors, but one experience I have to mention.

I wrote an article about Philip K Dick, who mentioned Luther Burbank in a short story. They called him The Wizard of Santa Rosa due to the number of new hybridized plants he invented. The russet potato is his discovery. I used to volunteer at the Luther Burbank Home & Gardens, by my house.  In my PKD article, my reverent reference to the plant wizard was transformed by my editor into "The plant (and marketing!) wizard". Not only is that pointless to add in the context, it makes it appear that I was the one who made that stupid comment.

I can make stupid asides without an editor's help. Trust me.

Also, he pushed the deadline ahead on me by a week - and then didn't publish it for several months. That part irked me quite a bit. Funny, he's not there anymore.
 
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