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(NPR)   Shortage of glass means supply chain is half empty   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Repeat, Bottle, whims of nature, Glass bottles, supply chains, empty store shelves, pasta sauces, Jar, owner Daniel Liberson worries  
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2563 clicks; posted to Main » and Business » on 13 Oct 2021 at 3:20 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-13 2:27:51 PM  
Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.
 
2021-10-13 3:22:36 PM  

snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.


I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!
 
2021-10-13 3:23:24 PM  
What kind of idiot uses glass to make a chain.  It would chip all the time, and how are you even going to bend and close the links?
 
2021-10-13 3:27:00 PM  
All hail the glorious efficiencies of the free market, which apparently has to ship recycled glass from L.A. to Shanghai and then back again to make sure our products have containers.
 
2021-10-13 3:30:01 PM  
Just like many other industries struggling to secure supplies, producers of pasta sauce

eh, can manage.

and high-end spirits

Declare a national emergency.  Melt down the entire White sands national park. DO SOMETHING!
 
2021-10-13 3:30:44 PM  

deadsanta: snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.

I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!


Gas prices as adjusted for inflation have been basically flat since 1978.  Couple that with cars that are 2-3 times more efficient than those made in the 70s and I don't know that you have anything to complain about.
 
2021-10-13 3:31:08 PM  
TFA Nails it:
""There is no shortage of the raw materials to make glass in this country"
"The problems are not at home: Domestic glass manufacturers insist they're making as many bottles as ever."
"But 20% to 30% of the food and beverage bottles used in the U.S. are typically imported from Europe or Asia."

Something like glass seems like an absolutely moronic thing to globalize. How farking cheap is that 30%?
Can we get some of that corn/methanol subsidy money and build some farking factories?
 
2021-10-13 3:32:14 PM  
With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?
 
MFK
2021-10-13 3:33:12 PM  

DoganSquirrelSlayer: TFA Nails it:
""There is no shortage of the raw materials to make glass in this country"
"The problems are not at home: Domestic glass manufacturers insist they're making as many bottles as ever."
"But 20% to 30% of the food and beverage bottles used in the U.S. are typically imported from Europe or Asia."

Something like glass seems like an absolutely moronic thing to globalize. How farking cheap is that 30%?
Can we get some of that corn/methanol subsidy money and build some farking factories?


maybe one of these defense contractors can start using some of the money we send them every year and produce something this country actually since they can't just blow our shiat up in the desert anymore.
 
2021-10-13 3:33:53 PM  
Aluminum shortages are affecting canning. Now glass affecting home canners
 
MFK
2021-10-13 3:33:58 PM  

MFK: DoganSquirrelSlayer: TFA Nails it:
""There is no shortage of the raw materials to make glass in this country"
"The problems are not at home: Domestic glass manufacturers insist they're making as many bottles as ever."
"But 20% to 30% of the food and beverage bottles used in the U.S. are typically imported from Europe or Asia."

Something like glass seems like an absolutely moronic thing to globalize. How farking cheap is that 30%?
Can we get some of that corn/methanol subsidy money and build some farking factories?

maybe one of these defense contractors can start using some of the money we send them every year and produce something this country actually needs since they can't just blow our shiat up in the desert anymore.


FTFM dammit
 
2021-10-13 3:36:13 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..
 
2021-10-13 3:38:49 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


Capitalism isn't designed to produce what people need.  It is designed to produce whatever will bring the highest return on investment.
 
2021-10-13 3:39:20 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


I don't think so.

"Currently, U.S. recyclables are no longer profitable, and no one wants to buy them.

"China used to buy the majority of the world's plastics and paper for recycling, The New York Times reported. The U.S. has been the #1 generator of plastic waste in the world for years and used to ship more than half of its total plastic production to China, a November 2020 study found. The research also noted that up to one-fourth of American plastics sent abroad were contaminated or of poor quality, which would make it extremely difficult to recycle anyways.

"Starting Jan. 1, 2018, China banned imports of most scrap materials because shipments were too contaminated, The Times reported; the country no longer wanted to be the "world's garbage dump."

As a result, the U.S. and other Western nations who had relied on China to offload their recyclables saw a "mounting crisis" of paper and plastic waste building up in ports and recycling facilities, The Times reported."

https://www.ecowatch.com/us-recycling​-​industry-2652630035.html
 
2021-10-13 3:42:26 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


You need an infrastructure for collecting it.  And having a parallel run of recycling-only trucks can get expensive.  Recycling dumpsters can get expensive and not cost-effective if people don't drop off their recycling.  And there needs to be a systematic nationwide infrastructure for collecting it by the glass companies.  If the nearest glass factory is ten hours away, a municipality won't want to pay a city employee to haul a trailer full of glass to the factory.  If transportation is expensive, then the municipality wouldn't want to stockpile and hold on to glass, because any revenue from selling would be swallowed up by expenses.
 
2021-10-13 3:42:38 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


In Georgia, our recycling programs won't even accept glass anymore because they got tired of dealing with it when it broke in transit.
 
2021-10-13 3:43:35 PM  

Hey Nurse!: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..


A few years ago China stopped taking our "dirty" recycling (mixed materials on the same item) and ever since then most US recycling places can't turn a profit so shiat's just going into the garbage.
 
2021-10-13 3:43:49 PM  
I started working at an olive oil and vinegar store a few months ago. Bottling is a huge issue. We recently got a shipment that was due over two months ago. It was "scary" for a moment there that we wouldn't have enough bottles. I hope the owner preorders as much as she can. The holidays are right around the corner. And, who doesn't love olive oil and/or vinegar?
 
2021-10-13 3:44:02 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?


Recycling is like water conservation efforts. It can reduce demand and prolong supply, but it will never meet the demand for raw materials

Also some industries cannot use recycled products to meet specifications of certain products
 
2021-10-13 3:46:54 PM  

kkinnison: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Recycling is like water conservation efforts. It can reduce demand and prolong supply, but it will never meet the demand for raw materials

Also some industries cannot use recycled products to meet specifications of certain products


In the US Southwest, lack of water will end growth entirely. They should be strategically stopping growth and replanning these economies to use less water.
 
2021-10-13 3:49:51 PM  

Hey Nurse!: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..


That's not why.

The recycling that we have come to believe in has, for the most part, been a farking lie the whole time. The plastics industry - ahem: the petrochemical industry - has absolutely no reason to lose money recycling plastic when they can sell you new plastic instead. Go ahead and check up on the actual percentages and end markets for recycled goods. We'll wait.

The rest of it was dumped in China. China decided not to accept any more American (and European) waste. Our entire national recycling infrastructure was this: Ship that shiat to the PRC. Now that they no longer accept it, cities have had to abandon the pretense they possessed 'recycling programs.' Well okay they haven't abandoned the pretense. But the reality is just as you described.

It's all landfill all the time now.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692​0​90/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-​believing-plastic-would-be-recycled
 
2021-10-13 3:51:15 PM  

freidog: Just like many other industries struggling to secure supplies, producers of pasta sauce

eh, can manage.

and high-end spirits

Declare a national emergency.  Melt down the entire White sands national park. DO SOMETHING!


Eh, my McCormick's vodka comes in a plastic jug.
 
2021-10-13 3:52:23 PM  
i was ok at the beginning of this when shortages were one or two things here and there, now that it's everything my skeptic-ometer is starting to buzz.
 
2021-10-13 3:55:27 PM  

Space Banana Physicist: Hey Nurse!: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..

That's not why.

The recycling that we have come to believe in has, for the most part, been a farking lie the whole time. The plastics industry - ahem: the petrochemical industry - has absolutely no reason to lose money recycling plastic when they can sell you new plastic instead. Go ahead and check up on the actual percentages and end markets for recycled goods. We'll wait.

The rest of it was dumped in China. China decided not to accept any more American (and European) waste. Our entire national recycling infrastructure was this: Ship that shiat to the PRC. Now that they no longer accept it, cities have had to abandon the pretense they possessed 'recycling programs.' Well okay they haven't abandoned the pretense. But the reality is just as you described.

It's all landfill all the time now.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/8976920​90/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-​believing-plastic-would-be-recycled


I used to work in a bar. One owner was against recycling for reasons that you're giving. The other owner was totally into recycling. So, that kept things interesting.
 
2021-10-13 3:56:42 PM  
draft beer it is, then.
 
2021-10-13 3:57:36 PM  

Alwysadydrmr: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

In Georgia, our recycling programs won't even accept glass anymore because they got tired of dealing with it when it broke in transit.


Ours said it was too heavy so it cost to much to pick up curbside, so please bring it in yourself so the county doesn't have to charge more for recycling. This message came with a price hike. We put glass in the same curbside pickup container as always.

The recycling program here always seemed half assed anyway. I always figured they put it in place to look like a progressive city to try to lure some big company in and when that didn't work they've just been chipping away at it.
 
2021-10-13 4:01:54 PM  
Doesn't matter , your S O will always complain they if you made more money you could fill up that half empty glass ..
 
2021-10-13 4:03:06 PM  
RE: Recycling (hah)
Keep in mind that glass containers especially used to get bought back by the company that sold it to you in first place, sterilized, and reused. Coke, I'm looking at you.

The part of the recycling system that matters (aluminum, glass, and cardboard boxes) is all a shell game by the industry that generated those containers in getting us to subsidize their product lifecycle.

In the meantime, we should really just stop recycling anything else, just send that stuff to the landfill. The plastic and dirty food packaging mixed in with the valuable stuff doesn't mean that stuff is going to get recycled, it just means all of it goes to the landfill instead of only some of it. If local ordnances want to do composting too for the bio-matter stuff, fine, but it shouldn't leave your general area.
 
2021-10-13 4:05:25 PM  
And just *why* is there a "supply chain problem"? It couldn't *possibly* have anything to do with the wealthy taking American jobs and shipping them out of country or overseas so they could pay sweatshop wages, and have what's made made more cheaply (better for planned obsolescence) for ROI, could it?

Nahhh.....
 
2021-10-13 4:15:18 PM  

DoganSquirrelSlayer: RE: Recycling (hah)
Keep in mind that glass containers especially used to get bought back by the company that sold it to you in first place, sterilized, and reused. Coke, I'm looking at you.

The part of the recycling system that matters (aluminum, glass, and cardboard boxes) is all a shell game by the industry that generated those containers in getting us to subsidize their product lifecycle.

In the meantime, we should really just stop recycling anything else, just send that stuff to the landfill. The plastic and dirty food packaging mixed in with the valuable stuff doesn't mean that stuff is going to get recycled, it just means all of it goes to the landfill instead of only some of it. If local ordnances want to do composting too for the bio-matter stuff, fine, but it shouldn't leave your general area.


Not landfills - incinerators. There's plenty of stored energy in paper and plastic. Use it to supply part of the base load requirements for your electrical grid. The ash can then be processed to recover metals.

Example: http://www.metrovancouver.or​g/services​/solid-waste/wte-and-disposal/waste-to​-energy-facility/about/Pages/default.a​spx
 
2021-10-13 4:22:45 PM  
What Paul Guglielmo may *really* look like:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 4:28:03 PM  
We could have a robust recycling system, if we stopped caring that it was profitable and just made it a matter of public policy/infrastructure. Or, if we insist on continuing to farm out our 'public good' measures to private industry (because we're idiots), we could MAKE it profitable by making the alternative too expensive.
 
2021-10-13 4:32:54 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Not landfills - incinerators. There's plenty of stored energy in paper and plastic. Use it to supply part of the base load requirements for your electrical grid. The ash can then be processed to recover metals.

Example: http://www.metrovancouver.org​/services/solid-waste/wte-and-disposal​/waste-to-energy-facility/about/Pages/​default.aspx


Maybe, but they're also notoriously dirty. See: Wheelabrator Incinerator and many other east coast municipal trash burners. Granted, most of them are from the 80s, but even the newer ones are a lot like the clean coal plants. Pollutant capture is expensive and offsets the saving of free/cheap fuel. I may have heard some rumors about CO2 being not great either.

The correct solution would be to just like... not make so much plastic in the first place, but I'm not putting bets on that happening anytime soon. So that may end up being a necessary, even if it's not great.

Not a huge fan of the plastic producers subsidizing their product lifecycle into our air.

Anyway, that's not to dismiss the idea, but just to say that the simple solution of "oh just burn it all" has issues too.
 
2021-10-13 4:33:19 PM  

whitroth: And just *why* is there a "supply chain problem"? It couldn't *possibly* have anything to do with the wealthy taking American jobs and shipping them out of country or overseas so they could pay sweatshop wages, and have what's made made more cheaply (better for planned obsolescence) for ROI, could it?

Nahhh.....


Be a reasonable fellow and ask yourself - how can we afford to stuff our landfills with glass if we pay Americans a good wage to make the glass?

No, I think after reflection that you'll find that it makes much more sense to pay another country's peasants to collect sand, melt it, mix it, shape it, ship it overland, ship it oversea to us in California where we can then ship it to New Jersey, then to a food processing plant in Ohio to be filled, then to New York to a specialty sauce maker for them to put labels on, then to a giant distribution system in Arkansas, then back out all over the country for sale in stores.

Merca the Mercantile!
 
2021-10-13 4:49:34 PM  

snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.



Crypto swoops in to save the Day!
 
2021-10-13 5:03:12 PM  
We have some locals that now take the glass that the city no longer recycles, and pulverizes it into "sand" that they are now trying to get cement companies to use in their mix.  They also make sparkly "mulch" that they are trying to convice gardeners to use.
 
2021-10-13 5:08:54 PM  

FrancoFile: deadsanta: snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.

I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!

Gas prices as adjusted for inflation have been basically flat since 1978.  Couple that with cars that are 2-3 times more efficient than those made in the 70s and I don't know that you have anything to complain about.


The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.
 
2021-10-13 5:14:26 PM  

DoganSquirrelSlayer: Keep in mind that glass containers especially used to get bought back by the company that sold it to you in first place, sterilized, and reused. Coke, I'm looking at you.


for real.  We used to get a 6 pack of 12 oz bottles of pepsi and every week take them back to the grocery.  Mom still has an old Mountain Dew bottle she uses to cool Angel food Cakes on.
 
2021-10-13 5:17:17 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 5:17:34 PM  

MFK: MFK: DoganSquirrelSlayer: TFA Nails it:
""There is no shortage of the raw materials to make glass in this country"
"The problems are not at home: Domestic glass manufacturers insist they're making as many bottles as ever."
"But 20% to 30% of the food and beverage bottles used in the U.S. are typically imported from Europe or Asia."

Something like glass seems like an absolutely moronic thing to globalize. How farking cheap is that 30%?
Can we get some of that corn/methanol subsidy money and build some farking factories?

maybe one of these defense contractors can start using some of the money we send them every year and produce something this country actually needs since they can't just blow our shiat up in the desert anymore.

FTFM dammit


Why cant we recycle all those glass parking lots we've made in the desert over the years?
 
2021-10-13 5:29:14 PM  

Zizzowop: FrancoFile: deadsanta: snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.

I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!

Gas prices as adjusted for inflation have been basically flat since 1978.  Couple that with cars that are 2-3 times more efficient than those made in the 70s and I don't know that you have anything to complain about.

The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 5:31:27 PM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: Zizzowop: FrancoFile: deadsanta: snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.

I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!

Gas prices as adjusted for inflation have been basically flat since 1978.  Couple that with cars that are 2-3 times more efficient than those made in the 70s and I don't know that you have anything to complain about.

The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.
[Fark user image 568x440]


Do they have a Honda Fat?

/asking for a friend
 
2021-10-13 5:32:45 PM  

Zizzowop: The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 5:33:47 PM  

DoganSquirrelSlayer: Maybe, but they're also notoriously dirty. See: Wheelabrator Incinerator and many other east coast municipal trash burners. Granted, most of them are from the 80s, but even the newer ones are a lot like the clean coal plants. Pollutant capture is expensive and offsets the saving of free/cheap fuel. I may have heard some rumors about CO2 being not great either.

The correct solution would be to just like... not make so much plastic in the first place, but I'm not putting bets on that happening anytime soon. So that may end up being a necessary, even if it's not great.


Ours is clean enough (the link I provided has details about its emissions). It would be good to reduce unnecessary use of plastics, but there are many applications where they are the best option. Maybe in the future we'll be able to use more biological materials as the initial feedstock instead of crude oil, but there is always going to be a waste stream. It's better to deal with it directly than to stuff it in a landfill and let future generations deal with it.

And it's not only plastics. Incinerators also deal with paper, cloth, wood scraps, used facemasks, etc. Filter out the stuff which is worth recycling directly (e.g. aluminum cans) and stuff which won't burn (e.g. construction waste like drywall and concrete), then burn the rest.
 
2021-10-13 5:47:35 PM  

Hey Nurse!: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..


I don't know the exact reason for why they're doing it in your specific neighborhood, but after China set higher requirements for the stuff they were willing to take. The US ran into some major problems

There are people who actually pay attention to what's allowed to be recycled, and how to clean it before sending it to recycling.... And there are the people who think 'oh, this greasy pizza box is cardboard, so let me Chuck that in, too'

And that grease can contaminate the whole batch of paper.  So cities started tracking which neighborhoods were good at recycling, and which ones sucked.  If the neighborhood was just giving them stuff that they were going to end up sorting just to send the majority to the landfill (what they call 'aspirational recycling'), it made way more sense to just send it *all* from that neighborhood to landfill.

And only process the stuff from the neighborhoods that are doing a good job, and giving them sufficient materials in their recycling to make it worthwhile to process.

...

If you ask me, it makes more sense to handle things like other countries-back in the 80s, when I lived in the Netherlands, they had a 'glasbak' in every grocery store parking lot.  It had holes for clear, green, and brown glass.

So you just took your bottles there, and shoved them in the right holes, right at the place that you got most of your glass bottles in the first place.

Some countries these days have fancy containers... they analyze the bottle as it's put in, and they sort it by type of plastic automatically, and compact them as they fill up.   Some let you collect credits so you can earn a little bit of cash for giving them your bottles.
 
2021-10-13 6:02:07 PM  

Zizzowop: FrancoFile: deadsanta: snocone: Turn that frown upside down. "The Economy" is gonna look absolutely fabulous with all the extra money stuff costs.

I'm already super-excited for the gas-prices, 50-year-old me gets to go back to his childhood, bonus!!

Gas prices as adjusted for inflation have been basically flat since 1978.  Couple that with cars that are 2-3 times more efficient than those made in the 70s and I don't know that you have anything to complain about.

The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.


And both were tiny death traps with little comfort or safety features and had zero to sixty times of a golf cart.

Also, the 1978 governmental MPG test has been changed a couple times since then (made harder), so if a 1978 model year car that says 40 MPG on the window sticker was retested under the new rules it would probably only get 30 MPG or something.
 
2021-10-13 6:03:27 PM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: Zizzowop: The inflation part may be right, but in 1978 a Datsun B210 got 40 mpg, and a diesel Rabbit got like 50 mpg. Our cars now really should be more fuel efficient.

[Fark user image 850x493]


Or somebody could actually look up what I was saying before I was posting, LOL.
 
2021-10-13 6:35:32 PM  
Well, I'll just start digging and fire up the furnace, then.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 6:38:48 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Ours is clean enough (the link I provided has details about its emissions).


You did, but is it?
It looks like Burnaby Waste-to-Energy Facility in Vancouver is a 24 MW plant.
And the link says the 1/2hr data currently making about 118 mg/dscm of NOx on each of 3 boilers.
For only 24MW it's not fabulous, I had a lot of trouble trying to look at the conversion rates and limits (everything is in lb/hr) but it looks to me that this is comparable to something like a 500MW coal plant. So it's not any worse than the local power plant, which is good, but for the power produced is pretty gross.

Again, the benefit is that you save on landfill and maybe that can be worth doing with some free side energy, but "clean" might be a stretch.
 
2021-10-13 7:39:30 PM  

Space Banana Physicist: Hey Nurse!: Smelly Pirate Hooker: With all the "shortages" of materials, I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have, at this point, a more robust recycling industry to make up for the shortages of materials like glass, plastic and cardboard.

Or do we and I just don't know about it?

Ncsb: I live in St. Louis and we have recycling is perfect for trash pick up. Because I'm old and bored I stare out the window a lot. More often than not I've noticed they are putting the recycle directly into the trash bin when the trucks come through. I suppose it's because of the staff shortage and they don't have the people or the trucks to pick up two separate runs. Either way, it's complete bullshiat..

That's not why.

The recycling that we have come to believe in has, for the most part, been a farking lie the whole time. The plastics industry - ahem: the petrochemical industry - has absolutely no reason to lose money recycling plastic when they can sell you new plastic instead. Go ahead and check up on the actual percentages and end markets for recycled goods. We'll wait.

The rest of it was dumped in China. China decided not to accept any more American (and European) waste. Our entire national recycling infrastructure was this: Ship that shiat to the PRC. Now that they no longer accept it, cities have had to abandon the pretense they possessed 'recycling programs.' Well okay they haven't abandoned the pretense. But the reality is just as you described.

It's all landfill all the time now.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/8976920​90/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-​believing-plastic-would-be-recycled


Here's my half-baked theory about a recycling scam: Trash and recyclables are usually handled by the same company. The recycle company:sorts the metal, paper, and plastic and will not accept loads that are contaminated with trash. This means contaminated recyclables are then sent to the landfill.
Because China does not accept recyclables anymore, the recycle companies have no market for their product. So now the trash haulers are being paid by the recycle companies to contaminate the recyclable load in order to get it dumped in the landfill. The landfill collects a fee from the municipality for having to handle a contaminated load and then kicks back part of the fee to the recycle company.
 
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