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(Law and Crime)   TX court recommends new trial for Jewish death row inmate. Sentencing judge was a lifelong anti-Semite and "that farkin' Jew", "goddamn *", and "needed to be shut down because they controlled all the money and all the power" offer clues   (lawandcrime.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Law, Jury, Crime, United States Constitution, Court, Supreme Court of the United States, Capital punishment, United States  
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3370 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2021 at 7:30 AM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-13 5:06:11 AM  
he used anti-Semitic slurs when referring to Halprin because he identified Halprin as a Jew, and not because of evidence presented at trial about Halprin's crimes

Does this mean that it would have been appropriate for him to use anti-Semitic slurs if it was somehow related to the evidence?
 
2021-10-13 7:27:47 AM  
FeLLOws
 
2021-10-13 7:28:59 AM  
Ok, how the fark did the filter not do what I wanted.

TeKKKas.

There.
Coined it
 
2021-10-13 7:34:14 AM  
"The Honorable Vickers Cunningham, the presiding judge at Mr. Halprin's capital trial..." There's something wrong about that moniker. I can't put my finger on it.
 
2021-10-13 7:34:19 AM  
So it's okay to elect a gun to the Senate as long as its not an anti-Semitic gun. Okay.
 
2021-10-13 7:38:29 AM  
Uh, yeah! And please tell me the judge is no longer a judge?
 
2021-10-13 7:43:33 AM  
I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.
 
2021-10-13 7:46:13 AM  

Gordon Bennett: he used anti-Semitic slurs when referring to Halprin because he identified Halprin as a Jew, and not because of evidence presented at trial about Halprin's crimes

Does this mean that it would have been appropriate for him to use anti-Semitic slurs if it was somehow related to the evidence?


I think the judge accidentally a few clauses.
 
2021-10-13 7:48:28 AM  

Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.


Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?
 
2021-10-13 7:51:40 AM  

Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?


They learn from examples, so it just perpetuates the problems of the current system with a veneer of neutrality.
 
2021-10-13 7:52:16 AM  
Subby needs the "D"
 
2021-10-13 7:52:19 AM  

Ragin' Asian: "The Honorable Vickers Cunningham, the presiding judge at Mr. Halprin's capital trial..." There's something wrong about that moniker. I can't put my finger on it.


How's that?

 
2021-10-13 7:53:11 AM  

Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?


Yes.  The AI is worse than most people because minorities are poor.  Poor people are more often convicted of crimes.  Therefore, to an AI, minorites are more likely to be criminals.  And they're good at finding substitutes for being told skin color, so you can't just avoid putting that in.
 
2021-10-13 7:54:48 AM  

Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.


*As long as the programmer doesn't ad bias
 
2021-10-13 7:56:50 AM  

Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.


I funnied this, but I just realized it might have been serious.  And that's a chilling thought.
 
2021-10-13 7:57:22 AM  

alechemist: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

*As long as the programmer doesn't ad bias


It really isn't the programmers' fault.  Well, except that they didn't say it's a bad idea and refuse to do it.

An AI can be very good at "learning" to replicate what currently happens.  But actual justice is not something you can do with them.
 
2021-10-13 8:02:39 AM  
This just cracked the door open for just about everyone non white and non Christian that has ever appeared in his court for an appeal.
 
2021-10-13 8:07:18 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

Yes.  The AI is worse than most people because minorities are poor.  Poor people are more often convicted of crimes.  Therefore, to an AI, minorites are more likely to be criminals.  And they're good at finding substitutes for being told skin color, so you can't just avoid putting that in.


Yup. Systemic racism in a nutshell is the idea that the posters who are saying "algorithmic results will be great as long as the programmers aren't racist" are incorrect.
 
2021-10-13 8:10:19 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

Yes.  The AI is worse than most people because minorities are poor.  Poor people are more often convicted of crimes.  Therefore, to an AI, minorites are more likely to be criminals.  And they're good at finding substitutes for being told skin color, so you can't just avoid putting that in.


Mechanical sentencing is what got us mandatory minimums. For real. The idea was that human judges with their human biases were putting too much weight on extraneous circumstances not decided on by the "finders of fact" (i.e. the jury), leading to identical crimes getting sentences ranging anywhere from six months to five years. Because judges would consider mitigating or aggravating circumstances, race, age, employment, etc.

So mandatory minimums and sentencing guidelines were imposed. Judges under the guidelines coontil they were replaced or amended, if they were) had no option but to look at the crime, add the points for aggravating circumstances, subtract the points for mitigating circumstances, and provide a sentence.

So: First offense, crime against the person, (let's say robbery) weapon involved, no injuries, money stolen less than $5000: five years. Period. Those are the facts, that's fair, right? Except it puts the kid with a screwdriver who steals $10 from the 7-11 for kicks on the same bus to prison as the gangbanger who robbed a bank with a shotgun for $4000.

AIs handing out justice would be a TERRIBLE idea.
 
2021-10-13 8:11:36 AM  
In April 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected Halprin's bid for a new federal trial under a judicial bias theory. Steeped in procedural minutiae, that case was largely about a federal statute that precludes certain lawsuits and what it meant for the new trial request made after "the public exposure of [Cunningham's] bigotry" came to light.

LOL

We're in good hands.
 
2021-10-13 8:16:05 AM  

The5thElement: This just cracked the door open for just about everyone non white and non Christian that has ever appeared in his court for an appeal.


Cracked hell, every attorney who's ever brought a case before him is already writing the motion for rehearing.
 
2021-10-13 8:18:04 AM  

The5thElement: This just cracked the door open for just about everyone non white and non Christian that has ever appeared in his court for an appeal.


Good.
 
2021-10-13 8:19:15 AM  
 
2021-10-13 8:22:28 AM  
And remember, Texas judges are elected.
 
2021-10-13 8:22:42 AM  

Gordon Bennett: he used anti-Semitic slurs when referring to Halprin because he identified Halprin as a Jew, and not because of evidence presented at trial about Halprin's crimes

Does this mean that it would have been appropriate for him to use anti-Semitic slurs if it was somehow related to the evidence?


Probably not, but possibly.  A quote maybe, or brand names.
 
2021-10-13 8:23:49 AM  

vudukungfu: Ok, how the fark did the filter not do what I wanted.

TeKKKas.

There.
Coined it


How about KKKongress?
 
2021-10-13 8:25:04 AM  

Gyrfalcon: I May Be Crazy But...: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

Yes.  The AI is worse than most people because minorities are poor.  Poor people are more often convicted of crimes.  Therefore, to an AI, minorites are more likely to be criminals.  And they're good at finding substitutes for being told skin color, so you can't just avoid putting that in.

Mechanical sentencing is what got us mandatory minimums. For real. The idea was that human judges with their human biases were putting too much weight on extraneous circumstances not decided on by the "finders of fact" (i.e. the jury), leading to identical crimes getting sentences ranging anywhere from six months to five years. Because judges would consider mitigating or aggravating circumstances, race, age, employment, etc.

So mandatory minimums and sentencing guidelines were imposed. Judges under the guidelines coontil they were replaced or amended, if they were) had no option but to look at the crime, add the points for aggravating circumstances, subtract the points for mitigating circumstances, and provide a sentence.

So: First offense, crime against the person, (let's say robbery) weapon involved, no injuries, money stolen less than $5000: five years. Period. Those are the facts, that's fair, right? Except it puts the kid with a screwdriver who steals $10 from the 7-11 for kicks on the same bus to prison as the gangbanger who robbed a bank with a shotgun for $4000.

AIs handing out justice would be a TERRIBLE idea.


Mandatory minimums is extremely far from AI. It's pretty much the opposite.
 
2021-10-13 8:25:22 AM  
Silly prosecutors as well. They're wildly over-reaching on felony murder and conspiracy theories to essentially create crimes that don't exist. Charge him with escaping from prison, sure. But attempting to pin a murder charge on him for a killing one of the other escapees did after the escape when they weren't still acting together?  That's just sheer idiocy.
 
2021-10-13 8:26:51 AM  
Well, that "that farkin' Jew", "goddamn k*k*" was double parked...   in a school zone... on an alternating Tuesday.  Three strikes.
 
2021-10-13 8:29:53 AM  

rue_in_winter: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

They learn from examples, so it just perpetuates the problems of the current system with a veneer of neutrality.


AI learns from examples, *that are given to it by humans*. The reason you hear things like "AI has trouble distinguishing differences in black men" is because white programmers gave the AI primarily white faces to train on.
 
2021-10-13 8:31:34 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: alechemist: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

*As long as the programmer doesn't ad bias

It really isn't the programmers' fault.  Well, except that they didn't say it's a bad idea and refuse to do it.

An AI can be very good at "learning" to replicate what currently happens.  But actual justice is not something you can do with them.


Who needs AI at all? Feed in the facts only:
Did this person do X? - Yes
Did they do that?  - No
Did The Other happen? - Yes
*bells and whistles*
Verdict.
No need to interject race, sex, orientation, religion, etc. Did person x violate any laws, Yes/No. Is there proof the person committed the crime? Yes/No. Were there mitigating circumstances, Yes/No. What was the outcome death / loss of property etc. Spit out a verdict.
Now I'm not saying this should be the end result but it would be a good place to start since its well known that there are huge flaws in the justice system but taking out any common bias areas and deciding if a crime has been committed and then moving it to judicial review before a panel before affirmation of the crime couldn't hurt. It might make corrupt cops take a step back if it also looked at the circumstances and also if any law enforcement misconduct took place as well.
Ok this probable didn't make much sense so I'm gonna let my Adderall kick in and have a cup of coffee and get the day off to a speedy start.
 
2021-10-13 8:32:29 AM  
Not the first time that this racist POS has been on Fark.
 
2021-10-13 8:33:06 AM  
Okay that's some insane farking bullshiat that he's on death row for something he wasn't involved with.

This is exactly why the death penalty WILL eventually be abolished by federal law. Because states like Texas aren't happy offing the "serial killer caught on video doing it and on tape bragging about it and had heads in his freezer" type. They're killing for the sake of killing.
 
2021-10-13 8:36:07 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Gyrfalcon: I May Be Crazy But...: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

Yes.  The AI is worse than most people because minorities are poor.  Poor people are more often convicted of crimes.  Therefore, to an AI, minorites are more likely to be criminals.  And they're good at finding substitutes for being told skin color, so you can't just avoid putting that in.

Mechanical sentencing is what got us mandatory minimums. For real. The idea was that human judges with their human biases were putting too much weight on extraneous circumstances not decided on by the "finders of fact" (i.e. the jury), leading to identical crimes getting sentences ranging anywhere from six months to five years. Because judges would consider mitigating or aggravating circumstances, race, age, employment, etc.

So mandatory minimums and sentencing guidelines were imposed. Judges under the guidelines coontil they were replaced or amended, if they were) had no option but to look at the crime, add the points for aggravating circumstances, subtract the points for mitigating circumstances, and provide a sentence.

So: First offense, crime against the person, (let's say robbery) weapon involved, no injuries, money stolen less than $5000: five years. Period. Those are the facts, that's fair, right? Except it puts the kid with a screwdriver who steals $10 from the 7-11 for kicks on the same bus to prison as the gangbanger who robbed a bank with a shotgun for $4000.

AIs handing out justice would be a TERRIBLE idea.

Mandatory minimums is extremely far from AI. It's pretty much the opposite.


From the perspective of someone who isn't familiar with tech, algorithmic sentencing and AI sentencing probably sound about the same.
 
2021-10-13 8:36:31 AM  

Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.


(Warning: Tim & Eric)
e-Trial | Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job! | Adult Swim
Youtube XL2RLTmqG4w
 
2021-10-13 8:38:24 AM  

Gyrfalcon: First offense, crime against the person, (let's say robbery) weapon involved, no injuries, money stolen less than $5000: five years. Period. Those are the facts, that's fair, right? Except it puts the kid with a screwdriver who steals $10 from the 7-11 for kicks on the same bus to prison as the gangbanger who robbed a bank with a shotgun for $4000.


Well neither killed anyone but did threaten violence in the commission of a crime. Face it if you are a kid and you rob a store under the threat of violence maybe you need to spend some time in the pokey because its pretty evident you fail at living in society with the rest of us.
Slaps on the wrist for serious crimes are why kids who commit theme continue committing them into adulthood. Im sure this is something we disagree on even if its one of the rare times we will still have to disagree.
 
2021-10-13 8:38:59 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: rue_in_winter: Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?

They learn from examples, so it just perpetuates the problems of the current system with a veneer of neutrality.

AI learns from examples, *that are given to it by humans*. The reason you hear things like "AI has trouble distinguishing differences in black men" is because white programmers gave the AI primarily white faces to train on.


Yeah, I'm not disagreeing. We're describing the same thing: garbage in, garbage out.
 
2021-10-13 8:39:11 AM  

The Official Fark Cajun: Subby


he's an anti D ite.
 
2021-10-13 8:41:43 AM  
If we had a justice system and not a legal syst
 
2021-10-13 8:43:05 AM  

Egalitarian: This Vickers Cunningham is a total POS.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018/0​5/23/dallas-candidate-who-promised-to-​reward-kids-for-marrying-white-loses-b​y-25-votes/


Kinda looks like they were both POS's from reading that article. Jebus.
 
2021-10-13 8:52:17 AM  

puffy999: Okay that's some insane farking bullshiat that he's on death row for something he wasn't involved with.

This is exactly why the death penalty WILL eventually be abolished by federal law. Because states like Texas aren't happy offing the "serial killer caught on video doing it and on tape bragging about it and had heads in his freezer" type. They're killing for the sake of killing.


You are aware that almost every state has laws that you can be charged with, say murder, if someone is killed in the commission of a crime just for you being involved right? Even if you sit in the car, had no idea your buddy was going to rob a store and shot someone while doing it you can be charged when the cops stop the car and yank you both out. It's not just Texas.
 
2021-10-13 8:53:26 AM  

Netrngr: I May Be Crazy But...: alechemist: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

*As long as the programmer doesn't ad bias

It really isn't the programmers' fault.  Well, except that they didn't say it's a bad idea and refuse to do it.

An AI can be very good at "learning" to replicate what currently happens.  But actual justice is not something you can do with them.

Who needs AI at all? Feed in the facts only:
Did this person do X? - Yes
Did they do that?  - No
Did The Other happen? - Yes
*bells and whistles*
Verdict.
No need to interject race, sex, orientation, religion, etc. Did person x violate any laws, Yes/No. Is there proof the person committed the crime? Yes/No. Were there mitigating circumstances, Yes/No. What was the outcome death / loss of property etc. Spit out a verdict.
Now I'm not saying this should be the end result but it would be a good place to start since its well known that there are huge flaws in the justice system but taking out any common bias areas and deciding if a crime has been committed and then moving it to judicial review before a panel before affirmation of the crime couldn't hurt. It might make corrupt cops take a step back if it also looked at the circumstances and also if any law enforcement misconduct took place as well.
Ok this probable didn't make much sense so I'm gonna let my Adderall kick in and have a cup of coffee and get the day off to a speedy start.


I can forsee more shiatty plea-bargains that way. When arresting officers and ADA present a 4 page indictment for anyone not white and wealthy, the ADA just says: Hey if you don't take this plea, the computer is going to sentence you on every charge you're guilty of, so you're looking at 135 years for drawing on this building with sidewalk chalk...
 
2021-10-13 8:59:58 AM  

Netrngr: puffy999: Okay that's some insane farking bullshiat that he's on death row for something he wasn't involved with.

This is exactly why the death penalty WILL eventually be abolished by federal law. Because states like Texas aren't happy offing the "serial killer caught on video doing it and on tape bragging about it and had heads in his freezer" type. They're killing for the sake of killing.

You are aware that almost every state has laws that you can be charged with, say murder, if someone is killed in the commission of a crime just for you being involved right? Even if you sit in the car, had no idea your buddy was going to rob a store and shot someone while doing it you can be charged when the cops stop the car and yank you both out. It's not just Texas.


Even this story implies he was distanced from the murder and the conspiratorial crime was already committed.

Either way, it is bullshiat to put anyone on death row for NOT killing someone.

Also, let's stick to the point. This is about Texas, not "not Texas". We can discuss Mississippi's racist killing habits when they're the ones f*cking up.
 
2021-10-13 9:00:05 AM  

puffy999: Okay that's some insane farking bullshiat that he's on death row for something he wasn't involved with.

This is exactly why the death penalty WILL eventually be abolished by federal law. Because states like Texas aren't happy offing the "serial killer caught on video doing it and on tape bragging about it and had heads in his freezer" type. They're killing for the sake of killing.


THIS. Texas is proof that governments are not responsible enough to have a death penalty.
 
2021-10-13 9:00:27 AM  

Fireproof: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

Haven't we already seen that algorithms can be racially biased AF if the humans programming them have any biases?


You don't need bias in programmers for an algorithm written in good faith if it operates on data that is already skewed from previous human-driven systemic bias. Which most data is, by dint of it being a product of the society we currently live in. Eg: if being at certain social events that have camera feeds is an opportune alibi for many accused, systemic exclusion of minorities from events covered by cameras would result in an algorithm that was able to clear more advantaged people of wrongdoing. This doesn't require any bias in programming, it's simply a product of available data giving a certain class of people an advantage in a judicial proceeding.

(The above is purely an example for the sake of demonstration and not me saying that's a specific flaw of an existing or proposed system.)
 
2021-10-13 9:01:41 AM  
If this is the standard, anyone in a BLM or AntiFa protest where a murder takes place can be executed. That is a LOT of people.
 
2021-10-13 9:04:47 AM  

Netrngr: I May Be Crazy But...: alechemist: Solty Dog: I can't wait for an AI justice system. Just feed in your evidence and it will spit out a verdict and sentence. Race, creed, or money will not matter.

*As long as the programmer doesn't ad bias

It really isn't the programmers' fault.  Well, except that they didn't say it's a bad idea and refuse to do it.

An AI can be very good at "learning" to replicate what currently happens.  But actual justice is not something you can do with them.

Who needs AI at all? Feed in the facts only:
Did this person do X? - Yes
Did they do that?  - No
Did The Other happen? - Yes
*bells and whistles*
Verdict.
No need to interject race, sex, orientation, religion, etc. Did person x violate any laws, Yes/No. Is there proof the person committed the crime? Yes/No. Were there mitigating circumstances, Yes/No. What was the outcome death / loss of property etc. Spit out a verdict.
Now I'm not saying this should be the end result but it would be a good place to start since its well known that there are huge flaws in the justice system but taking out any common bias areas and deciding if a crime has been committed and then moving it to judicial review before a panel before affirmation of the crime couldn't hurt. It might make corrupt cops take a step back if it also looked at the circumstances and also if any law enforcement misconduct took place as well.
Ok this probable didn't make much sense so I'm gonna let my Adderall kick in and have a cup of coffee and get the day off to a speedy start.


Who feeds in the facts? Facts require codification, based on definitions and meanings that are pliable to humans. Who determines those meanings, and who ensures they don't vary between instances of execution (eg case by case)? How we do know they are facts? (Don't confuse this for me saying nothing is verifiable or that you can't determine what is factual, just that you're moving the window of opportunity for bias - potentially for the worse - from the public, transparent place of a courtroom to ... somewhere else. Is it also open and transparent? Answering my questions above sounds a lot like what they do in a court room.)
 
2021-10-13 9:06:03 AM  

leeksfromchichis: Gordon Bennett: he used anti-Semitic slurs when referring to Halprin because he identified Halprin as a Jew, and not because of evidence presented at trial about Halprin's crimes

Does this mean that it would have been appropriate for him to use anti-Semitic slurs if it was somehow related to the evidence?

Probably not, but possibly.  A quote maybe, or brand names.


Brand names?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-13 9:07:53 AM  

Egalitarian: This Vickers Cunningham is a total POS.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018/0​5/23/dallas-candidate-who-promised-to-​reward-kids-for-marrying-white-loses-b​y-25-votes/


Wow.

This knobhead is as racist as a Klansman grinning for the camera at a lynching. Of course he completely denies being racist. Which rather makes me wonder exactly what he would consider to be racist.
 
2021-10-13 9:09:27 AM  
But Jews have white privilege so this is just equity.
 
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