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(Guardian)   Counterpoint: Zuckerburger: "That's just not true." Alrighty then, case closed. The power of the Billyonairos   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, testimony of the Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen, Facebook founder, United States Senate, Dustin Moskovitz, Facebook post, company puts  
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1404 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Oct 2021 at 4:25 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-10-06 12:21:09 PM  
He may actually believe this to be true.
 
2021-10-06 12:34:06 PM  
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"(a mild parody)

"Hey multitude, how are you? I'm feeling some pressure and I wanted to say something to make me seem like a decent person for a change. Let's see if I get it right LOL.

First, we had a bad outage, but users are so addicted that they'll all return as soon as the monkey on their backs starts screaming. In fact, the little display on my desk says they are already back.

Second, now that I've stopped my red-faced rage fit about the testimony, I wanted to reflect on the public debate that makes me look bad, and by extension, makes you feel like a nest of weasels. Whenever we stop making money hand-over-fist for just a moment, we probably should make some kind of placating statement about issues like safety, well-being, and mental health. Then get right back to shoving ads in front of the zombies and mining personal data for billions!

Besides, many of the claims don't make any sense. If we were lying all the time, why would I repeatedly say "Oops, gosh I didn't mean to do that, it was an accident!" like a five-year-old child who doesn't understand consequences? Why would I, huh?

And if social media were as responsible for polarizing society as some people claim, then why are the factions so stable in the US? Year after year, we have really stable factions. That's a sign of a strong democracy.

At the heart (it's just an expression!) of these accusations is this idea that we love making money more than we love our zombie user-base. That's just not true. I mean, zombies are boring unless they somehow get over the security barriers.

The argument that we deliberately make people angry with our crap for profit is deeply hurtful. We make money from ads, and our advertisers consistently tell us they don't want to get caught and be associated with the garbage that they produce. Seems fair to me! Anyway, I don't know any tech company that sets out to build products that make people angry or depressed, apart from, you know, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, IBM, and so on.

But of everything published, I'm particularly troubled about kids. The reality is that young people use technology, but not ~our~ technology. We're deeply committed to addicting the little beasts to Messenger Kids. That's guaranteed future revenue.

But given the shiatstorm that whatsername has caused, we've paused that project until people get back to fussing about other things and take the heat off of us.

It is incredibly sad to think of a young person in a moment of distress. They need a false sense of support. Give 'em an account and let God sort 'em out, I say.

Similar to balancing other social issues, I don't believe private companies should do more than pretend to have values and ethics. It's all too complicated and it interferes with making moolah. Let Congress make the laws, and let corporations bribe elected officials the way the democracy requires. We have these institutions for a reason.

If we're going to have an informed conversation about the effects of social media on young people, it's important not to get hit with the blame. So I'll be on the horn to elected officials and wiring money to their off-shore bank accounts. (How about those Panama Papers? I know, right! Crazy!)

I know it's frustrating to see our profitable work receive sustained criticism from weirdos. But I believe that over the long term if we keep making huge profits, people will eventually buy shares and stop their whinging. In the meantime, I've asked leaders across the company to do deep purges of any New Age kooks who might go rogue.

When I reflect on our work, I think about the money and control. This is why billions of zombies are hooked. Keep up the good work, turn up the beats, and nevermind the screams outside."

- stolen from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=​2​8768554
 
2021-10-06 3:33:08 PM  
As we all know, the impact of your words is multiplied by your net worth. Therefore, if Francis Haugen is worth $200,000 and produces thousands of documents with two million words on them implicating Facebook's practices of promoting misinformation and hiding the harm that they knew they were doing, but Mark Zuckerberg says, "No, that is absolutely not true," then by my math his argument is around 75% more convincing.
 
2021-10-06 4:27:18 PM  
OK adversary.
 
2021-10-06 4:28:02 PM  
It's so true only the worst in the tech industry choose to work at Facebook.
 
2021-10-06 4:28:57 PM  
Data lookin' biatch trying to goat laser the truth.
 
2021-10-06 4:32:11 PM  

LarryDan43: It's so true only the worst in the tech industry choose to work at Facebook.


However, is there any tech CEO that isn't kinda "special?"
 
2021-10-06 4:32:35 PM  
She has documents to back it up, what does Zuck got?

Billions of dollars you say? Well then she's obviously a dirty liar! *gets handed a sack of money*
 
2021-10-06 4:34:28 PM  
"Just ask my wife, who is both human and female."
 
2021-10-06 4:34:42 PM  
FTFA ""Many of the claims don't make any sense. If we wanted to ignore research, why would we create an industry-leading research program to understand these important issues in the first place?" he said."

Well, you could look at industry-leading research programs in climate change developed at places like Exxon.  Back in 1982 they correctly predicted the temperature rise of the Earth quite accurately up to today, and their predictions line up closely with the higher end scenarios from the IPCC through 2100.

Exxon of course, realizing how bad things would get, listened to these scientists and quickly pivoted away from fossil fuels towards renewa....LOL, no, of course they didn't.  They buried the research and spent hundreds of millions financing climate change denial despite knowing perfectly well they were lying.

Kind of like Zuckerberg today

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2021-10-06 4:40:17 PM  
His counter argument seems to coincide with the right wing nuts tweeting out similar nonsense in defense of Facebook.
 
2021-10-06 4:41:10 PM  

foo monkey: "Just ask my wife, who is both human and female."


"...she lives in Canada."
 
2021-10-06 4:44:48 PM  
Narrator: It was completely true.

/DNRTFA
 
2021-10-06 4:44:56 PM  
She's just doing it because she hates freedom
 
2021-10-06 4:45:45 PM  
I don't know what drugs he's on, but Bazos seem to be on a lot better ones
jerichochambers.comView Full Size

abc4.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-06 4:47:07 PM  
Frances Haugen's testimony that social networking company puts profit before people 'just not true'

Holy f*ck it's so f*cking obvious, Dickhead.

The honorable thing to do would be to pledge to clean your shiat up now before you really get regulated.
 
2021-10-06 4:47:08 PM  

foo monkey: "Just ask my wife, who is designed to look, feel, sound, and smell both human and female."


Fixt.

/He could afford the premium package
 
2021-10-06 4:48:58 PM  
Seriously going for the "NUH-UH!!!" retort?

How predictably pathetic.
 
2021-10-06 4:51:25 PM  
boredpanda.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-06 4:57:22 PM  
die you miserable fark
 
2021-10-06 4:58:38 PM  

fuhfuhfuh: Seriously going for the "NUH-UH!!!" retort?

How predictably pathetic.


And yet somehow less pathetic than the millions of Republicans bobbing their heads in agreement with him.
 
2021-10-06 5:02:11 PM  
All he wants to do is keep people interacting on the site. I suppose he figures it's not his job to tell people what is supposed to interest them and the stupidity of the human race is not his problem.
 
2021-10-06 5:03:55 PM  
Okay then. Release the data that backs up your position.
 
2021-10-06 5:06:08 PM  
Found a recent picture of the Zuck.  I wonder why he's sweating so much.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-06 5:07:58 PM  

xalres: Okay then. Release the data that backs up your position.


i0.wp.comView Full Size
 
2021-10-06 5:09:37 PM  
Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.
 
2021-10-06 5:12:36 PM  
Too bad Zucko-F*cko didn't defend himself as strongly when his barber did that shiat to his head.
 
2021-10-06 5:13:36 PM  
Uh, don't their own documents prove that it's true? Like, literally, they did internal investigations and everything.

LOL, turns out, "The Social Network" was not an exaggeration at all.

He really is that much of an asshole. His girlfriend was right to dump him, no matter how much money he has now.
 
2021-10-06 5:15:55 PM  

xalres: Okay then. Release the data that backs up your position.


This. So far his argument is, "Nuh-uh."
 
2021-10-06 5:18:50 PM  

Dr. Bison: She's just doing it because she hates freedom


Hard to imagine there are people so stupid they would actually believe that
 
2021-10-06 5:22:16 PM  

nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.


This. Pretty much every social platform does this to "drive engagement". I watched some funny game glitch videos from, apparently, a gamergate adjacent channel, and the algorithm started suggesting Jordan Petersen talks and videos of incel neckbeards sitting in front of their bitcoin rigs with a katana mounted over them, screaming about feminism ruining Star Wars or some shiat. For over a month. They really want to steer you into right wing crazy town after even the barest grazing of the fringes.

/also videos of Ben Shapiro DESTROYING his juice box before nappies.
 
2021-10-06 5:37:29 PM  
Those political donations finally paid off.
 
2021-10-06 5:46:31 PM  

xalres: nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.

This. Pretty much every social platform does this to "drive engagement". I watched some funny game glitch videos from, apparently, a gamergate adjacent channel, and the algorithm started suggesting Jordan Petersen talks and videos of incel neckbeards sitting in front of their bitcoin rigs with a katana mounted over them, screaming about feminism ruining Star Wars or some shiat. For over a month. They really want to steer you into right wing crazy town after even the barest grazing of the fringes.

/also videos of Ben Shapiro DESTROYING his juice box before nappies.


Your experience was my experience, and it was why I cancelled my YouTube red subscription.

Their algorithm is nasty and farking awful.
 
2021-10-06 5:47:21 PM  

nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.


That, and "angry and harmful" is open to a lot of interpretation. A news article can make someone angry. Facebook wants that. Advertisers have no problem with news articles.

As for harmful, Zuckerbot has said he doesn't think their moderators should be the arbiters of truth. He is totes okay with harmful lies, and everyone knows it.
 
2021-10-06 5:49:07 PM  

Iworkformsn: xalres: nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.

This. Pretty much every social platform does this to "drive engagement". I watched some funny game glitch videos from, apparently, a gamergate adjacent channel, and the algorithm started suggesting Jordan Petersen talks and videos of incel neckbeards sitting in front of their bitcoin rigs with a katana mounted over them, screaming about feminism ruining Star Wars or some shiat. For over a month. They really want to steer you into right wing crazy town after even the barest grazing of the fringes.

/also videos of Ben Shapiro DESTROYING his juice box before nappies.

Your experience was my experience, and it was why I cancelled my YouTube red subscription.

Their algorithm is nasty and farking awful.


Same here, I don't remember what I watched but all of a sudden YT decided to send me *all* the toxic rightwing shiat.
 
2021-10-06 5:58:15 PM  
You know at this point we can circle back to intent. We know facebook is a problem and needs regulating.  After we do that we can then decide whether there are crimes that were committed. As for Zuckerberg I don't want to hear jack about what he thinks, and if the shareholders want to protect their investments they should probably demand his ouster, cause I guarantee nobody is going to win arguing facebook is to big to fail.
 
2021-10-06 6:00:11 PM  
FTA "If we wanted to ignore research, why would we create an industry-leading research program to understand these important issues in the first place?"

she didn't quite say FB ignored research, but FB failed to act. Companies aren't known to do research for benevolence, but to determine where to profit.
 
2021-10-06 6:08:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-10-06 6:10:46 PM  

hobnail: Iworkformsn: xalres: nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.

This. Pretty much every social platform does this to "drive engagement". I watched some funny game glitch videos from, apparently, a gamergate adjacent channel, and the algorithm started suggesting Jordan Petersen talks and videos of incel neckbeards sitting in front of their bitcoin rigs with a katana mounted over them, screaming about feminism ruining Star Wars or some shiat. For over a month. They really want to steer you into right wing crazy town after even the barest grazing of the fringes.

/also videos of Ben Shapiro DESTROYING his juice box before nappies.

Your experience was my experience, and it was why I cancelled my YouTube red subscription.

Their algorithm is nasty and farking awful.

Same here, I don't remember what I watched but all of a sudden YT decided to send me *all* the toxic rightwing shiat.


I have found that selecting "don't recommend channel" on that will start to fix that. It takes a while, and is annoying, but it works. The ads seem to take a bit longer to sort out but I am getting less adds for concealed carry shiate, or the epoch times.
Yes, YouTube I do like videos of guys forging knives, no, that does not mean I like to listen to walking turdpile incels talk about how hiding a firearm as close to their tiny peckers as possible is the only way they feel safe enough to go outside, and some how that's a sign of their tough guy manliness.
 
2021-10-06 6:12:46 PM  

muck1969: FTA "If we wanted to ignore research, why would we create an industry-leading research program to understand these important issues in the first place?"

she didn't quite say FB ignored research, but FB failed to act. Companies aren't known to do research for benevolence, but to determine where to profit.


Seems like a question that he could ask Philip-Morris or ExxonMobil.
 
2021-10-06 6:13:07 PM  

JDAT: Those political donations finally paid off.


Morgan probably went for about tree-fiddy.
 
2021-10-06 6:21:04 PM  
Having actually worked with a lot of guys like Zuck, including several billionaires in tech, he actually probably does believe this. None of them ever outright say their purpose in life is to "increase profit." They know that's not a noble goal, and so they lie to themselves and always say it's about something else.

It's about "growth," or about "connecting people," etc. But the end goal is always to become bigger, more dominant, and more ubiquitous. The fact that all of those things then tend to lead to greater profitability and payouts for themselves is mere coincidence. It's a secondary reward they get for "doing the right thing," in their mind, by growing their engagement metrics and userbase regardless of the consequences or means of doing so.

It's why trying to villainize individuals like Zuck, however deserving, is too simple and ultimately ineffective. You're not going to convince him to change what he's doing because he's already convinced himself that he's doing the noble and right thing. And if you want to impede their growth or engagement in any way, you are, by definition, not doing the right thing, and making the world a worse place. The only way to get through to these people is through regulation, and even then they will go to their graves feeling they were in the right.
 
2021-10-06 6:33:54 PM  
jaerik:

even then they will go to their graves feeling they were in the right.

Your terms are acceptable to me.
 
2021-10-06 6:40:13 PM  

hobnail: Iworkformsn: xalres: nijika: Tapestry of bullshiat anyone working in web tech can see right through

FTAHe added: "The argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is deeply illogical. We make money from ads, and advertisers consistently tell us they don't want their ads next to harmful or angry content."

He knows damn well he has advertisers who target this content and FB's whole farking platform is designed around letting advertisers target this granularly.  They do a better job of it than anyone else.

This. Pretty much every social platform does this to "drive engagement". I watched some funny game glitch videos from, apparently, a gamergate adjacent channel, and the algorithm started suggesting Jordan Petersen talks and videos of incel neckbeards sitting in front of their bitcoin rigs with a katana mounted over them, screaming about feminism ruining Star Wars or some shiat. For over a month. They really want to steer you into right wing crazy town after even the barest grazing of the fringes.

/also videos of Ben Shapiro DESTROYING his juice box before nappies.

Your experience was my experience, and it was why I cancelled my YouTube red subscription.

Their algorithm is nasty and farking awful.

Same here, I don't remember what I watched but all of a sudden YT decided to send me *all* the toxic rightwing shiat.


I watched a video clip of the animated Justice League set in the old West.

The next video auto-queued up was about Wonder Woman 1984, which I watched for a bit, then got distracted. When I returned my attention to YouTube, it was playing a screed about how Patty Jenkins and woke SJWs were ruining comic book movies.

I'd been watching videos about The Bad Batch and The Mandalorian. After that incident, my recommendations were all about Kathleen Kennedy, Rey, and Rose Tico ruining Star Wars forever.

Telling YouTube I wasn't interested in those didn't help. I pretty much had to stop watching any Star Wars vids, which was fine because about then reveals about Dune started coming out.

So far, the only shiatvid about that I've been recommended has a thumbnail complaining about the gender/race swapping of Liet Kynes.

Turn off auto-play, kids.
 
2021-10-06 7:32:05 PM  
He's probably being truthful on this one guys... the well-bing of people never even enters the equation.
 
2021-10-06 7:53:46 PM  

b2theory: He may actually believe this to be true.


Trust me, the higher you climb on the corporate ladder the better you are at lying.

Being at the bottom means you get to hear how you need to be a team player when people plagiarize your work. A lot.
 
2021-10-06 8:06:02 PM  

b2theory: He may actually believe this to be true.


They literally gave Zuck himself the choice - clicks and more profits over health and political stability. And he chose profits.

It should come as no surprise that the same guy who called his customers 'dumb f*cks' might not be on the up-and-up.

F*ck Zuck. And delete your Facebook account.
 
2021-10-06 8:21:36 PM  
You can't trust anything those liberal commies at the WALL STREET JOURNAL says about business.

LYING WALL STREET JOURNAL!
 
2021-10-07 10:16:40 AM  
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