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(C|Net)   What If...Robert California had some stones [Episode 8 spoiler discussion]   (cnet.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Iron Man, Avengers, Captain America, Marvel Comics, Marvel Universe, Ultron Won, Hawkeye, Black Widow  
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974 clicks; posted to Discussion » and Fandom » on 29 Sep 2021 at 8:50 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-29 9:13:56 AM  
Adults think about these kinds of things.
 
2021-09-29 9:32:29 AM  
What about Bobby Oregon?
 
2021-09-29 9:45:57 AM  
Ultron California by Red Letter Media
Youtube Tf-_230SjbM
 
2021-09-29 9:54:00 AM  

yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.


Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?
 
2021-09-29 9:58:15 AM  
I thought it was Randy California
 
2021-09-29 9:58:22 AM  

AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?


The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.
 
2021-09-29 10:08:15 AM  
Any relation to Dani?
 
2021-09-29 10:19:22 AM  
What if Ultron were the f**king lizard king?
 
2021-09-29 10:25:11 AM  
I still think "mirror universe" Dr Strange should be clean-shaven.
 
2021-09-29 11:05:38 AM  

Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.


It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.
 
2021-09-29 11:07:51 AM  
OK, I figured it out.  This whole episode is a dream that The Watcher is having.  When he wakes up he'll go to the bathroom, open the shower door, and see  The Man from Atlantis!  And that's how they get Namor into the MCU!
 
2021-09-29 11:12:02 AM  

Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.


That.  It wasn't even 6months ago they established this as 'fact' in the MCU but it's now non-fact.  The only apparent difference is that the TVA got remodeled under new management.
 
2021-09-29 11:20:13 AM  

AdrienVeidt: Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.

That.  It wasn't even 6months ago they established this as 'fact' in the MCU but it's now non-fact.  The only apparent difference is that the TVA got remodeled under new management.


All I can figure is that, having taken over his own universe with his Infinity Stones, he unlocked other sources of power that did work in other universes.  Magic, tech, whatever... he had a whole universe worth of civilizations to plunder.  So it wasn't his Infinity Stones he was using in other universes to bust ass, it was other woo woo mojo.

There, did I win a No-Prize?
 
2021-09-29 11:20:26 AM  
Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.
 
2021-09-29 11:28:05 AM  

AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?


Was that ever shown to be true outside the confines of the TVA itself? I mean, the TVA lied about some other things...
 
2021-09-29 12:06:28 PM  

AnotherBluesStringer: What if Ultron were the f**king lizard king?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-29 12:07:30 PM  

Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.


Did they become paperweight outside their universe, or just inside the TVA ?
 
2021-09-29 12:20:17 PM  

cousin-merle: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

Was that ever shown to be true outside the confines of the TVA itself? I mean, the TVA lied about some other things...


Perhaps the Stones won't work at the TVA because it's outside the all universes/multiverse like the One Who Remains' domain.

/there was a 7th Gem in the comics
 
2021-09-29 12:28:30 PM  
Anyway, loved this episode.  The Thanos takedown, the impatient "aw c'mon!" KGB file search, that Valkyrie vs Hela-esque slow-mo shot of Hawk Guy's last stand, an abundance of Kirby Krackle, the visually awesome shatter splatter glimpses in an epic armored slugfest, and finally a salty Watcher.

11/10
 
2021-09-29 12:30:34 PM  
Haven't watched it yet, just pointing out I called in last thread that Ultron showing up was very important and not just the standard "cliffhanger we probably won't answer" ending they like using on these. Uatu's shock at VisUltron's arrival was what set it off for me.
 
2021-09-29 12:45:59 PM  
AdrienVeidt:

One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.

Gaahl'i
 
2021-09-29 1:41:06 PM  

AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.


Some jerk from Gallifrey, probably.
 
2021-09-29 1:49:03 PM  
Stray observations:

-GalactUltron was a great shout-out
-A file for Charles Xavier is in the same box as Zola (written in Cyrillic)
-They're getting some use out of the vertical bisections (Falcon in Zombies, Thanos in this)
-If Zola's plan in that universe (to place copies everywhere) is the same in others (like the Prime), then Zola ain't dead yet, because the Russian Super Soldier facility wasn't destroyed
-If BW's plan succeeds, then Zola will now be in control of the most powerful body holding the most powerful objects in the uni/multiverse. Probably won't be a factor, but interesting nonetheless
-They never said infinity stones can't work outside of their home universe, nor that they couldn't allow multiverse travel. It's just no one assembled them all with the computational power of Ultron to handle it. Thanos, for how smart and technical he was, probably couldn't have figured out the full extent, or wielded it. Thanos was basically half-dead after wiping out half of all life. Ultron, in his indestructible body and infinite brain-computer wiped out ALL life without breaking a sweat. Thanos was the #1 college player during March Madness. Ultron is Michael Jordan in his prime with the super soldier serum.
 
2021-09-29 2:51:43 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Stray observations:

-A file for Charles Xavier is in the same box as Zola (written in Cyrillic)


It says Cynthia Halley. She is an art director on the show.
 
2021-09-29 2:56:47 PM  
Did they actually ever show Ultron using an infinity stone outside of the universe?

During the fight with the watcher, he was using pew pews, but I couldnt tell if it was pew pews granted to him via infinity stone, or pew pews because he was a robot with fricken lasers.

Overall, I really liked the episode.
 
2021-09-29 3:33:00 PM  

AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.


GOTG2 shows that Uatu isn't the only watcher.
 
2021-09-29 3:41:16 PM  
Robert California sucked ass
 
2021-09-29 3:53:27 PM  

Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.


We just know that the TVA can shut them down like they shut down Loki's powers. We don't specifically know what happens when you take them to another universe in  MCU canon.
 
2021-09-29 4:37:45 PM  

replacementcool: AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.

GOTG2 shows that Uatu isn't the only watcher.


I wonder if they'll somehow retcon why those Watchers seem so different from Uatu.  The way Uatu is presented, he's basically a supreme being with no need of someone like Stan Lee observing directly.  It's like how the Infinity Gauntlet showed up in an earlier Thor movie as an easter egg, but they later lampshaded it and said it was just a cheap replica.
 
2021-09-29 5:41:13 PM  
If the Infinity Stones didn't work outside their home universes, then after collecting them all in Endgame Hulk would have snapped his fingers and nothing would have happened.

Not functioning within the domain of the TVA isn't the same as not working outside the stone's native universe.
 
2021-09-29 5:43:24 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.

We just know that the TVA can shut them down like they shut down Loki's powers. We don't specifically know what happens when you take them to another universe in  MCU canon.


Yeah we do.  We watched The Avengers do it.
 
2021-09-29 5:59:03 PM  

PlaidJaguar: If the Infinity Stones didn't work outside their home universes, then after collecting them all in Endgame Hulk would have snapped his fingers and nothing would have happened.

Not functioning within the domain of the TVA isn't the same as not working outside the stone's native universe.


Uh, Endgame Hulk never left his home universe.

PlaidJaguar: Mad_Radhu: Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.

We just know that the TVA can shut them down like they shut down Loki's powers. We don't specifically know what happens when you take them to another universe in  MCU canon.

Yeah we do.  We watched The Avengers do it.


No, we didn't.  They traveled *through* the Quantum Realm but the start and end points were the same macro-scale universe.
 
2021-09-29 6:02:04 PM  

AdrienVeidt: PlaidJaguar: If the Infinity Stones didn't work outside their home universes, then after collecting them all in Endgame Hulk would have snapped his fingers and nothing would have happened.

Not functioning within the domain of the TVA isn't the same as not working outside the stone's native universe.

Uh, Endgame Hulk never left his home universe.


Yes he did - along with Scott, Tony, and Steve.  He even had a chat with the Ancient One where she explicitly referred to her universe and what would happen if Hulk didn't return the Time Stone to it from his own.

PlaidJaguar: Mad_Radhu: Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.

We just know that the TVA can shut them down like they shut down Loki's powers. We don't specifically know what happens when you take them to another universe in  MCU canon.

Yeah we do.  We watched The Avengers do it.

No, we didn't.  They traveled *through* the Quantum Realm but the start and end points were the same macro-scale universe.


No, not the same universe.

Time travel is impossible.  Causality doesn't allow it.  You cannot cross your own causal chain.

When they traveled *through* the Quantum realm they emerged in alternate universes, not in the past of their own universe.
 
2021-09-29 6:03:52 PM  
It's like the people going "It doesn't make sense! How was OldCap just there all of a sudden on that bench?" - easy - he set the coordinates on his quantum travel GPS and got there - just like how they all got to all the places they went during their time heist.
 
2021-09-29 6:05:04 PM  

PlaidJaguar: It's like the people going "It doesn't make sense! How was OldCap just there all of a sudden on that bench?" - easy - he set the coordinates on his quantum travel GPS and got there - just like how they all got to all the places they went during their time heist.


Also, it's really not worth arguing. Just go with whatever headcanon works. The writers themselves don't agree on how the time travel of the MCU works.
 
2021-09-29 6:28:16 PM  
mst3kjustatvshowreallyshouldrelax.jpg
 
2021-09-29 6:34:17 PM  

sniderman: mst3kjustatvshowreallyshouldrelax.jpg​


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-29 7:26:36 PM  
Clint reads Russian?

Sure. Why not
 
2021-09-29 7:49:02 PM  

PlaidJaguar: AdrienVeidt: PlaidJaguar: If the Infinity Stones didn't work outside their home universes, then after collecting them all in Endgame Hulk would have snapped his fingers and nothing would have happened.

Not functioning within the domain of the TVA isn't the same as not working outside the stone's native universe.

Uh, Endgame Hulk never left his home universe.

Yes he did - along with Scott, Tony, and Steve.  He even had a chat with the Ancient One where she explicitly referred to her universe and what would happen if Hulk didn't return the Time Stone to it from his own.

PlaidJaguar: Mad_Radhu: Aquapope: Mad_Radhu: AdrienVeidt: yakmans_dad: Adults think about these kinds of things.

Shiat-eaters care what harmless things other adults do, watch, and think about.

Back to important stuff: how do the Stones work outside their home universe?  Is that supposed to be quintessential to their nature or was that artificially enforced by the TVA?

The Infinity Gems only working in their home universe was comics canon, but that detail may not have carried over to the MCU.

It's absolutely a thing in the MCU, they made it a thing in Loki.  Some guys Infinity Gems as paperweights.

We just know that the TVA can shut them down like they shut down Loki's powers. We don't specifically know what happens when you take them to another universe in  MCU canon.

Yeah we do.  We watched The Avengers do it.

No, we didn't.  They traveled *through* the Quantum Realm but the start and end points were the same macro-scale universe.

No, not the same universe.

Time travel is impossible.  Causality doesn't allow it.  You cannot cross your own causal chain.

When they traveled *through* the Quantum realm they emerged in alternate universes, not in the past of their own universe.


True. They basically took the Infinity Stones from the timeline of Endgame Thanos. If they were from the same timeline as Infinity War Thanos, it would have have created a paradox when Endgame Thanos got Snapped at the end of the movie because he wouldn't exist to set the events of Infinity War into motion to cause the Snap that sent everyone back in time to reverse the Snap.
 
2021-09-29 8:16:58 PM  
OK, as long as we're poking, how about the fact that Infinity Stone-powered Ultron showed up at the end of the last episode IN PARTY THOR'S UNIVERSE. Watcher himself was "Oh shiatting" about the appearance, as he was already multiverse-skipping. Yet, in this episode, Ultron initially learns of the multiverse and crashes into Watcher's home for a visit and a bit of introductory kick-assery. So which event came first? Because Watcher himself seemed to treat both as the first time he saw Ultron/Vision.
 
2021-09-29 8:24:13 PM  

rhodabear: AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.

Some jerk from Gallifrey, probably.


You say that but there was a short time Marvel owned the comic rights for distribution in the US for Doctor Who.
 
2021-09-29 8:34:39 PM  
So, who else from preceding episodes will get recruited?
 
2021-09-29 8:46:37 PM  

Boojum2k: So, who else from preceding episodes will get recruited?


"Head in Jar" Ant-Man
 
2021-09-29 9:01:13 PM  

Boojum2k: So, who else from preceding episodes will get recruited?


My guess is Party Thor, Captain Carter, Black Star T'Challa, maybe Captain Marvel.
 
2021-09-29 9:07:24 PM  

Unbridled Apathy: Boojum2k: So, who else from preceding episodes will get recruited?

"Head in Jar" Ant-Man


Since it is Ultron, I'm thinking murder-happy Hank Pym is the one to take him out.
 
2021-09-29 10:38:38 PM  

sniderman: OK, as long as we're poking, how about the fact that Infinity Stone-powered Ultron showed up at the end of the last episode IN PARTY THOR'S UNIVERSE. Watcher himself was "Oh shiatting" about the appearance, as he was already multiverse-skipping. Yet, in this episode, Ultron initially learns of the multiverse and crashes into Watcher's home for a visit and a bit of introductory kick-assery. So which event came first? Because Watcher himself seemed to treat both as the first time he saw Ultron/Vision.


Depends on your frame of reference, I'd guess. From Uatu/The viewer, UltVision showed up in Party Thor then started universe skipping later. For UltVision, he started universe skipping, and Party Thor was one of the universes.

/Alternative: There are multiple Uatus. Uati?
 
2021-09-29 11:03:56 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: rhodabear: AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.

Some jerk from Gallifrey, probably.

You say that but there was a short time Marvel owned the comic rights for distribution in the US for Doctor Who.


Yeah, but all Marvel produced were just reprints of the original British comics. No new material and no interaction with the Marvel comic universe.
 
2021-09-29 11:10:11 PM  

djjonze: Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: rhodabear: AdrienVeidt: Also, they've massively changed the scope of who/what the Watcher is, imho.  In the comics he's just one junior member of an entire race; who are themselves subject to being Multiversal variants just like any other random person in a Marvel universe.  But here they seem to have elevated him to being above the Multiverse on the level with The One Above All and the Living Tribunal.  One wonders who/what he made his oath of non-interference to in this context.

Some jerk from Gallifrey, probably.

You say that but there was a short time Marvel owned the comic rights for distribution in the US for Doctor Who.

Yeah, but all Marvel produced were just reprints of the original British comics. No new material and no interaction with the Marvel comic universe.


The British comics were Marvel adjacent.

Fark user imageView Full Size

Death's Head also links the Doctor to the Transformers.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-30 1:15:35 AM  

sniderman: OK, as long as we're poking, how about the fact that Infinity Stone-powered Ultron showed up at the end of the last episode IN PARTY THOR'S UNIVERSE. Watcher himself was "Oh shiatting" about the appearance, as he was already multiverse-skipping. Yet, in this episode, Ultron initially learns of the multiverse and crashes into Watcher's home for a visit and a bit of introductory kick-assery. So which event came first? Because Watcher himself seemed to treat both as the first time he saw Ultron/Vision.


The timeline in this episode is generally kind of screwy because it also shows the Guardians of the Galaxy on Sovereign and Ego still alive even though the events of Volume 2 happened BEFORE Ultron was created.
 
2021-09-30 6:12:32 AM  
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