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(Yahoo)   Apparently, G.I. Joe is poaching UK lorry drivers, probably to undermine Destro's M.A.R.S. Industries   (uk.news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Gasoline, Filling station, Mobil, Tony Danker, Government, Friday evening, Fuel dispenser, new measures  
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2090 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Sep 2021 at 7:50 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Xai
2021-09-28 7:51:50 PM  
lol the news from 5 days ago.

20 of it's 1200 stations were out - currently it's over 90%
 
2021-09-28 7:52:51 PM  
Cold Slither
Youtube bnM-u7rZwtI
 
2021-09-28 7:55:05 PM  

Xai: lol the news from 5 days ago.

20 of it's 1200 stations were out - currently it's over 90%


Government: "Don't buy up all the petrol"
Citizens: "BUY ALL THE PETROL NOW!"
 
2021-09-28 7:59:13 PM  
Drivers on the way to get fuel
Cobra la la la la la la la
Youtube rUw8cN6R8o0
 
2021-09-28 8:15:03 PM  
Even evil organizations mask up.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 8:15:18 PM  
Whats the British army up to these days?
 
2021-09-28 8:15:38 PM  
Pork Chop Sandwiches!
 
2021-09-28 8:18:49 PM  
Tomax and Xamot were Cobra's bankers, so it all makes sense after all.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 8:20:51 PM  
Can't submit LA Times links, but this nonsense gets greenlit?
 
2021-09-28 8:22:36 PM  
How long until they raise the wage of the drivers?

Because the cold day in hell is coming.
 
2021-09-28 8:31:33 PM  
That's gotta be a pain in the ass trying to drive a left-hand-drive lorry through UK on the wrong side of the road.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 8:36:57 PM  

meat0918: How long until they raise the wage of the drivers?

Because the cold day in hell is coming.


They already have - competition has driven wages up from £35,000/yr to over £55,000 with boatloads of overtime available too.

The issue isn't wages, but the number of drivers. Britain's 'native' population is distinctly older than the immigrant population with a large percentage of retirees. You can see the problems when you look at the unemployment rate - pre pandemic it was at a 40-year low of 3.8% absolutely rock bottom, so we relied upon immigrant labour to allow our economy to keep going despite so many retirees.

Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

They all said the same thing, which was kind of uncanny, that they expected someone else to do it. News flash though - that's what immigrants are; Someone else.
 
2021-09-28 8:39:16 PM  

meat0918: How long until they raise the wage of the drivers?

Because the cold day in hell is coming.


They'll import drivers from Pakistan and India before that.

I've seen some seriously disturbing/depressing things in India with their truck drivers. I'm talking dead bodies on the road.
 
2021-09-28 8:43:38 PM  

Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)


Gah?? I thought the point was, they wanted those jobs, so they kicked the foreigners out.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 8:47:37 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

Gah?? I thought the point was, they wanted those jobs, so they kicked the foreigners out.


No they just wanted rid of foreigners - i didn't know anyone who wanted to do the jobs of immigrants. Farm labourers? bar workers? lorry drivers? they were all the jobs no-one wanted to do, and still don't.
 
2021-09-28 8:51:35 PM  

Trocadero: Can't submit LA Times links, but this nonsense gets greenlit?


LA Times has a hard paywall.
 
2021-09-28 8:52:46 PM  
He'll never give up
He'll stay 'till the Right's won
GI Joe is there

GI Joe!
 (Real 'merkin heroooo!)
GI Joooooooooe!
 
2021-09-28 8:53:05 PM  
"The CBI called for ministers to establish a task force on the same pegging as the Cobra emergency committee to deal with the problems."

Giggity
 
2021-09-28 9:02:04 PM  

Xai: lol the news from 5 days ago.

20 of it's 1200 stations were out - currently it's over 90%


Actually I think things will be back to normal within days. Saturday it was chaos with people queuing hundreds of yards down the road and blocking junctions.
Last night I filled up and there were maybe fifteen cars in the queue? From joining the back of the queue to getting to the pump took me five minutes.
Tonight I drove past the same petrol station and there were only two or three cars waiting at each lane. The queue didn't leave the forecourt. It was an artificial crisis caused by scaremongering and sensational headlines in the media.
 
2021-09-28 9:07:09 PM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 9:07:17 PM  
M|A|R|R|S - Pump Up The Volume (Official Video)
Youtube w9gOQgfPW4Y
 
2021-09-28 9:08:58 PM  

Xai: Bennie Crabtree: Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

Gah?? I thought the point was, they wanted those jobs, so they kicked the foreigners out.

No they just wanted rid of foreigners - i didn't know anyone who wanted to do the jobs of immigrants. Farm labourers? bar workers? lorry drivers? they were all the jobs no-one wanted to do, and still don't.


Yeesh. And here I thought it was something about jobs and labour markets.
 
2021-09-28 9:10:13 PM  

Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)


Well maybe because the problem is the fact that because of Covid there have been no tests or licencing for new drivers? They can't quit their jobs and become HGV drivers because there is a huge backlog of people waiting to finish training, take their test etc.

And come out of retirement? Maybe if they only retired a couple of years ago. But HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training and a retest every five years to keep their licence. It's unlikely they would have paid for all that just before retiring so it is reasonable to assume most will have lapsed licences.

And to get their licence back means taking another test, but there is a huge backlog....

So how exactly do you think Brexiteers could quickly become HGV drivers or come out of retirement?
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:14:38 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: lol the news from 5 days ago.

20 of it's 1200 stations were out - currently it's over 90%

Actually I think things will be back to normal within days. Saturday it was chaos with people queuing hundreds of yards down the road and blocking junctions.
Last night I filled up and there were maybe fifteen cars in the queue? From joining the back of the queue to getting to the pump took me five minutes.
Tonight I drove past the same petrol station and there were only two or three cars waiting at each lane. The queue didn't leave the forecourt. It was an artificial crisis caused by scaremongering and sensational headlines in the media.


Ah the old carter staple of 'It's not bad where I am so everyone is fine' argument from you. In my city every single filling station is empty right now - all of them - and I have had 4 unsuccessful attempts to get fuel in the past week (2 prior to the media reporting on it, how is that possible when you claimed it was entirely due to media hysteria?) I haven't got enough fuel to get to work now and can't risk even trying to get fuel unless I know it's available. (20 miles left)

Since your situation is so rosy, why don't you get a few jerry cans and come help me out, better yet get yourself down for a job as a tanker driver and help out the country, as I said in another thread "The issue isn't wages, but the number of drivers. Britain's 'native' population is distinctly older than the immigrant population with a large percentage of retirees. You can see the problems when you look at the unemployment rate - pre pandemic it was at a 40-year low of 3.8% absolutely rock bottom, so we relied upon immigrant labour to allow our economy to keep going despite so many retirees.

Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

They all said the same thing, which was kind of uncanny, that they expected someone else to do it. News flash though - that's what immigrants are; Someone else."
 
2021-09-28 9:15:17 PM  

Xai: No they just wanted rid of foreigners - i didn't know anyone who wanted to do the jobs of immigrants.


Then why did Boris Johnson introduce new immigration rules that made immigration easier? And long before Covid, that policy was in his 2019 manifesto. Including fast tracking for medical workers for the NHS.

/Plus of course EU nationals already here were not kicked out. They all could apply to stay. In fact Theresa May offered to guarantee those rights well before the UK even triggered Article 50 so that those people would have certainty in their lives. All she asked is that the EU reciprocated, saying that people shouldn't be the pawns in the Brexit process.

The EU refused.
 
2021-09-28 9:15:28 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Tonight I drove past the same petrol station and there were only two or three cars waiting at each lane. The queue didn't leave the forecourt. It was an artificial crisis caused by scaremongering and sensational headlines in the media.


I agree. Like this time I was on a cruise and our liner hit an iceberg. Everone wall freaking out because there were -- supposedly -- hundreds of passengers in the icy water. The lifeboat leader kept broadcasting it on their bullhorns. The lifeboats were full, a crisis that the lifeboat pasengers made, frankly.

WIthin ten minutes I aw maybe only 100 people in the water.

Another twenty minutes and there was like, 50 people and only like half the debris. Easy to clean up later. And the lifeboats didn't even behave like an emergency anymore. They didn't bother pulling ayone else, they just lowly paddled away. So they got to where they wanted to go, no problem.

Another half hour and it was me and 2 others all holding on to a big wooden table as the navy caught up to us. The problem was not even half as bad as they said when the iceberg first hit. Where were all those crowds? Where were the lifeboats? Just a media panic the whole time.
 
2021-09-28 9:17:45 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training


I can't remember the at time I only had to do 35 hours of training for any task at my work. Man, I would love that kind of fast to learn job. Sign me up.
 
2021-09-28 9:17:47 PM  

migueldelascervezas: Pork Chop Sandwiches!


Who wants a body massage?

o/

/already had my monthly massage paid for by my employer today, but i'll take another.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:21:20 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

Well maybe because the problem is the fact that because of Covid there have been no tests or licencing for new drivers? They can't quit their jobs and become HGV drivers because there is a huge backlog of people waiting to finish training, take their test etc.

And come out of retirement? Maybe if they only retired a couple of years ago. But HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training and a retest every five years to keep their licence. It's unlikely they would have paid for all that just before retiring so it is reasonable to assume most will have lapsed licences.

And to get their licence back means taking another test, but there is a huge backlog....

So how exactly do you think Brexiteers could quickly become HGV drivers or come out of retirement?


I know ones that retired less than 5 years ago that won't. They certainly could. All drivers that have retired in the last 5 years would certainly make a dent on the issue we are having.

Before brexit we could have attracted drivers from europe with higher wages and better conditions to fill vacancies, sure this would cause shortages elsewhere but i didn't think brexit was about making the EU better at the expense of making the UK situation worse. After brexit we can't. That's the key issue here.

Waiting lists for HGV drivers are just 4.5 weeks, https://www.isisinsurance.co.uk/hgv-driving-test-waiting-times/#:~:text=Against%20this%20background%20of%20shortages,the%205th%20of%20October.

1 week higher than the average which, while significant, isn't extreme and we knew of a shortage of HGV drivers many months ago, so brexiteers have had plenty of time to pick up the slack.

But yeah, 4.5 week waits - are you going to quit and get driving tankers to help our country out?
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:22:26 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: No they just wanted rid of foreigners - i didn't know anyone who wanted to do the jobs of immigrants.

Then why did Boris Johnson introduce new immigration rules that made immigration easier? And long before Covid, that policy was in his 2019 manifesto. Including fast tracking for medical workers for the NHS.

/Plus of course EU nationals already here were not kicked out. They all could apply to stay. In fact Theresa May offered to guarantee those rights well before the UK even triggered Article 50 so that those people would have certainty in their lives. All she asked is that the EU reciprocated, saying that people shouldn't be the pawns in the Brexit process.

The EU refused.


I'm not referring to what actually occurred there, but instead the sentiment of the majority of brexiteers that I know. I apologise if I wasn't clear with that.
 
2021-09-28 9:23:13 PM  

Xai: Ah the old carter staple of 'It's not bad where I am so everyone is fine' argument from you. In my city every single filling station is empty right now - all of them - and I have had 4 unsuccessful attempts to get fuel in the past week (2 prior to the media reporting on it, how is that possible when you claimed it was entirely due to media hysteria?) I haven't got enough fuel to get to work now and can't risk even trying to get fuel unless I know it's available. (20 miles left)


Ahhh, so my anecdotal observation is worthless but your anecdotal claim is absolutely valid and must be accepted as fact....

Xai: Since your situation is so rosy, why don't you get a few jerry cans and come help me out, better yet get yourself down for a job as a tanker driver and help out the country


See my comment above. The cause of this problem is the huge backlog in tests caused by Covid.

So care to explain how I can get a HGV licence in a few days?

Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)


Is there an echo?

Reread my reply above.

Xai: The issue isn't wages, but the number of drivers. Britain's 'native' population is distinctly older than the immigrant population with a large percentage of retirees. You can see the problems when you look at the unemployment rate - pre pandemic it was at a 40-year low of 3.8% absolutely rock bottom, so we relied upon immigrant labour to allow our economy to keep going despite so many retirees.


I agree. HGV drivers have always had a high turnover. Every year thousands of newly qualified drivers replace thousands of drivers who leave.

So maybe consider what would happen if, say a worldwide pandemic close all the training and licencing centres for a year.....

Thousands of drivers leaving, but now newly qualified drivers to replace them.....

It's Covid, not Brexit. The rest of Europe is having the same problems.

Fark user imageView Full Size


As is the US with companies like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Starbucks having to take items off their menu because of supply issues.
 
2021-09-28 9:24:49 PM  
My god did that smell good.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:25:24 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

Well maybe because the problem is the fact that because of Covid there have been no tests or licencing for new drivers? They can't quit their jobs and become HGV drivers because there is a huge backlog of people waiting to finish training, take their test etc.

And come out of retirement? Maybe if they only retired a couple of years ago. But HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training and a retest every five years to keep their licence. It's unlikely they would have paid for all that just before retiring so it is reasonable to assume most will have lapsed licences.

And to get their licence back means taking another test, but there is a huge backlog....

So how exactly do you think Brexiteers could quickly become HGV drivers or come out of retirement?


I want to correct my earlier post as I got the information wrong. The current waiting time is 16 weeks for an HGV test, so yes it is significantly higher, but my original point that had brexiteers started taking up these roles after brexit they would be qualified by now. None of them have.
 
2021-09-28 9:26:28 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training

I can't remember the at time I only had to do 35 hours of training for any task at my work. Man, I would love that kind of fast to learn job. Sign me up.


That's what they have to do every five years just to keep their licence.....

That's a week off work, not earning anything and having to pay for the training.

And my point was if you have retired then you are highly unlikely to have paid for that and kept your licence, so "just coming out of retirement" isn't as easy and simple as it sounds.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:32:33 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: Ah the old carter staple of 'It's not bad where I am so everyone is fine' argument from you. In my city every single filling station is empty right now - all of them - and I have had 4 unsuccessful attempts to get fuel in the past week (2 prior to the media reporting on it, how is that possible when you claimed it was entirely due to media hysteria?) I haven't got enough fuel to get to work now and can't risk even trying to get fuel unless I know it's available. (20 miles left)


Ahhh, so my anecdotal observation is worthless but your anecdotal claim is absolutely valid and must be accepted as fact....


Wow we've reached the 'carter pretends he doesn't understand simple logic' part of this discussion earlier than I expected.

If you have enough food for 5 people, and I have no food, is it fair to say people are starving? If some cities have no fuel then we are having a crisis. There is no way that you having fuel somehow balances out me having none, much in the same way that you having plenty of food doesn't detract from the factual statement that people with none are starving.

Carter Pewterschmidt: See my comment above. The cause of this problem is the huge backlog in tests caused by Covid.

So care to explain how I can get a HGV licence in a few days?


If you, like other brexiteers, don't get yourself into the system then you'll never be qualified and never be able to help at least ease this serious issue. The question is why you don't want to help clean up the mess you voted for.

Carter Pewterschmidt: It's Covid, not Brexit. The rest of Europe is having the same problems.


You did this in the last thread, deflected by claiming that other places have problems so ours are OK - that's like saying north koreans are starving so it's fine for people to starve here too.

Before brexit we could solve out problems by poaching european truck drivers, even at short notice, to fill our skills shortages. After brexit we can't.

The rest of the world doesn't matter, this discussion is about what brexit has done to britain and the fact it has prevented us from solving our problems.
 
2021-09-28 9:34:17 PM  
They should just stiff-upper-lip it and form bucket brigades to get that petrol to the pumps! That's what Churchill woulda done!
 
2021-09-28 9:41:25 PM  

Xai: I know ones that retired less than 5 years ago that won't. They certainly could. All drivers that have retired in the last 5 years would certainly make a dent on the issue we are having.


So you think those drivers spent a week off work doing all that training, and paying for it, and then retired very soon after?

If you were thinking of retirement isn't it far more likely you'd carry on working until you needed that training and retired at that point? Meaning literally a week later you would have lost your licence?

Xai: Before brexit we could have attracted drivers from europe with higher wages and better conditions to fill vacancies, sure this would cause shortages elsewhere but i didn't think brexit was about making the EU better at the expense of making the UK situation worse. After brexit we can't. That's the key issue here.


Except the rest of Europe is suffering the exact same shortage we are.

Xai: Waiting lists for HGV drivers are just 4.5 weeks, https://www.isisinsurance.co.uk/hgv-driving-test-waiting-times/#:~:text=Against%20this%20background%20of%20shortages,the%205th%20of%20October.

1 week higher than the average which, while significant, isn't extreme and we knew of a shortage of HGV drivers many months ago, so brexiteers have had plenty of time to pick up the slack.


40,000 tests have been cancelled. Your link doesn't work so I can't comment on what it says.

Xai: I'm not referring to what actually occurred there, but instead the sentiment of the majority of brexiteers that I know. I apologise if I wasn't clear with that.


So where is all the Brexiteer outrage at Boris making immigration easier?

Surely if all they cared about was keeping brown people out they'd be up in arms when he made it easier for people from India etc to come here, right?

Xai: I want to correct my earlier post as I got the information wrong. The current waiting time is 16 weeks for an HGV test, so yes it is significantly higher, but my original point that had brexiteers started taking up these roles after brexit they would be qualified by now. None of them have.


You asked dozens of Brexiteers. Dozens!

Again, my anecdotal observations are worthless but your anecdotal claims are cast iron fact?

And you want them to quit their current jobs? What do they do now? Won't that create another shortage of staff there?

/Not to mention that if there is a sixteen week waiting list then clearly a lot of people are becoming HGV drivers....
 
2021-09-28 9:42:25 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training

I can't remember the at time I only had to do 35 hours of training for any task at my work. Man, I would love that kind of fast to learn job. Sign me up.

That's what they have to do every five years just to keep their licence.....

That's a week off work, not earning anything and having to pay for the training.

And my point was if you have retired then you are highly unlikely to have paid for that and kept your licence, so "just coming out of retirement" isn't as easy and simple as it sounds.


35 hours every 5 years?

That's really it? Nothing more? No extra safety and first aid stuff? No ongoing classes about maintenance of various vehicles? No annual seminars about police on highways or back roads? No constant preure to update with forklift, Bobcat, crane, and other licenes that would upgrade the company's haulage potential? Like... That's a breeze, dude. 35 hours every 5 years is easy peasy pumpkin squeezy.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 9:49:03 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Except the rest of Europe is suffering the exact same shortage we are.


Xai: You did this in the last thread, deflected by claiming that other places have problems so ours are OK - that's like saying north koreans are starving so it's fine for people to starve here too.

Before brexit we could solve out problems by poaching european truck drivers, even at short notice, to fill our skills shortages. After brexit we can't.

The rest of the world doesn't matter, this discussion is about what brexit has done to britain and the fact it has prevented us from solving our problems.


Amazing, posting the same 'but other places' argument and completely ignoring my point that the rest of europe losing drivers isn't our problem.

Unless of course you are claiming you supported brexit to harm the UK to benefit europe by protecting their truckers from being poached by UK hauliers.

Carter Pewterschmidt: And you want them to quit their current jobs? What do they do now? Won't that create another shortage of staff there?


Yes. 1) this is a more vital industry and 2) those other vacancies are easier to fill with migrants as, you so helpfully pointed out, other countries are experiencing driver shortages so it makes emigrating from foreign nations less attractive for those professions.

So I'll reiterate my point that you seem to have conveniently dropped - that I can't get any fuel. Why aren't you running and dropping everything to help your fellow brits? You can't deny that losing 20,000 drivers due to brexit (so far!) has had a massive impact - why aren't you interested in helping clean up the mess you voted for?
 
2021-09-28 9:53:39 PM  
the Government that it has just 10 days to save Christmas

Maybe they can recruit John Huston to write a heroic movie about truck drivers saving Christmas.

Oh, that's right: he's as dead as the English idea of being European.
 
2021-09-28 9:59:52 PM  

Xai: Wow we've reached the 'carter pretends he doesn't understand simple logic' part of this discussion earlier than I expected.

If you have enough food for 5 people, and I have no food, is it fair to say people are starving? If some cities have no fuel then we are having a crisis. There is no way that you having fuel somehow balances out me having none, much in the same way that you having plenty of food doesn't detract from the factual statement that people with none are starving.


There is no fuel shortage.

The shortage was caused by panic buying, exactly the same as with the toilet paper.

The BP boss who raised this issue in a meeting with the government said this has been going on for weeks, but no one cared or noticed. Maybe the odd BP was out of unleaded for a few hours. Big whoop. Go to Tesco or Shell and they had plenty.

It wasn't until those comments were leaked that people started panic buying and the situation you are describing happened. The oil companies didn't lose a few thousand truck drivers in the space of 24 hours.

Xai: If you, like other brexiteers, don't get yourself into the system then you'll never be qualified and never be able to help at least ease this serious issue. The question is why you don't want to help clean up the mess you voted for.


Okay, I have never mentioned this before, but my job is a home shopping driver for one of the supermarkets. I spent the entire pandemic working my ass off delivering groceries to people self isolating isolating, in lockdown, housebound, elderly etc.

Please do not lecture me on not helping. I am still delivering to people who have tested positive or who are housebound and who rely on us to deliver their groceries.

(This is also why I often comment on the fact that there is no shortage of food. I see every day dozens of customers and exactly how many and what items are out of stock or substituted. The early days of the pandemic were bad. For months now it's been no different to how it was several years ago.)

Xai: You did this in the last thread, deflected by claiming that other places have problems so ours are OK - that's like saying north koreans are starving so it's fine for people to starve here too.


And you're deflecting by trying to dismiss the fact that this issue is happening all around the world and trying desperately to claim this is all because of Brexit. You are desperate to dismiss that fact because it destroys your argument.

Xai: Before brexit we could solve out problems by poaching european truck drivers, even at short notice, to fill our skills shortages. After brexit we can't.


Why not? We can offer visas if we choose. That's the whole point of being a sovereign country, we get to choose who we allow in. It's the same reason we offered fast tracking for medical workers to help the NHS. It's the same thing countries like Australia, New Zealand etc do when they need specific skills and trades.

Xai: The rest of the world doesn't matter, this discussion is about what brexit has done to britain and the fact it has prevented us from solving our problems.


But the rest of the world does matter. Offering high pay to bring in cheap workers from Poland isn't going to work if Poland itself is short of tens of thousands of drivers and their companies are offering more money to recruit.
 
2021-09-28 10:01:17 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: HGV drivers have to do 35 hours training

I can't remember the at time I only had to do 35 hours of training for any task at my work. Man, I would love that kind of fast to learn job. Sign me up.

That's what they have to do every five years just to keep their licence.....

That's a week off work, not earning anything and having to pay for the training.

And my point was if you have retired then you are highly unlikely to have paid for that and kept your licence, so "just coming out of retirement" isn't as easy and simple as it sounds.

35 hours every 5 years?

That's really it? Nothing more? No extra safety and first aid stuff? No ongoing classes about maintenance of various vehicles? No annual seminars about police on highways or back roads? No constant preure to update with forklift, Bobcat, crane, and other licenes that would upgrade the company's haulage potential? Like... That's a breeze, dude. 35 hours every 5 years is easy peasy pumpkin squeezy.


Except if you're retired of course. Would you still pay to do those courses if you were retired?
 
2021-09-28 10:04:41 PM  

Xai: So I'll reiterate my point that you seem to have conveniently dropped - that I can't get any fuel. Why aren't you running and dropping everything to help your fellow brits? You can't deny that losing 20,000 drivers due to brexit (so far!) has had a massive impact - why aren't you interested in helping clean up the mess you voted for?


Because this fuel shortage is nothing to do with Brexit. It didn't even exist until the media ran a sensationalist headline saying all the petrol stations were going to run out and panic buying started.

Frankly asking why I'm not becoming a HGV driver to help this issue is your house catching fire and you demanding I apply to join the fire brigade so I can (eventually) come and put it out.

In a few days this petrol "shortage" will be over.
 
2021-09-28 10:17:05 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Except if you're retired of course. Would you still pay to do those courses if you were retired?


I guess I don't know about the UK, but in Canada, penion don't top coming in just because someone gets a job. If I was a truck driver, I think I would totally be game for re-up. I could take 35 hours of my  hard-earned afternoon Coronation Street marathons and instead ue the time for the cert. Yeah.

I mean, we're talking about the generation who talk about WW2 and the way England pulled together on the homefront during the blitz. So yeah, if I wa a retired English lorryteer or Truckchap or whatever they are called, hell yes, it would be a kind of obvious ue of my retirement. As long a I could make the cost of the 35 hours back in 4 months, why not drive around a lorry between Newcastlecestershire and Frome-Sod-Avon. Sounds like a fun use of a season of retirement. So yes.

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Mind you, if I was the kind of retired gnome who need bifical glasses then I would probably just offer to hang around the trucking office and help with things for minimum wageso one of the office staff could drive. I mean we're talking about empty grocery stores, right? Pharmacies and food services are in real trouble, right? Well, I would help with all the office stuff. Get that freight moving.

And since you're wondering, yes, in real life I am super helpful.
 
2021-09-28 10:17:30 PM  

dsmith42: Trocadero: Can't submit LA Times links, but this nonsense gets greenlit?

LA Times has a hard paywall.


I'm reading it right now for free, what the fark are you talking about? The Yahoo "disable your adblocker" nonsense is harder to get around. I got it off one computer, but not the laptop, haven't figured out exactly what I did differently.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 10:34:21 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Xai: Wow we've reached the 'carter pretends he doesn't understand simple logic' part of this discussion earlier than I expected.

If you have enough food for 5 people, and I have no food, is it fair to say people are starving? If some cities have no fuel then we are having a crisis. There is no way that you having fuel somehow balances out me having none, much in the same way that you having plenty of food doesn't detract from the factual statement that people with none are starving.

There is no fuel shortage.

The shortage was caused by panic buying, exactly the same as with the toilet paper.

The BP boss who raised this issue in a meeting with the government said this has been going on for weeks, but no one cared or noticed. Maybe the odd BP was out of unleaded for a few hours. Big whoop. Go to Tesco or Shell and they had plenty.

It wasn't until those comments were leaked that people started panic buying and the situation you are describing happened. The oil companies didn't lose a few thousand truck drivers in the space of 24 hours.

Xai: If you, like other brexiteers, don't get yourself into the system then you'll never be qualified and never be able to help at least ease this serious issue. The question is why you don't want to help clean up the mess you voted for.

Okay, I have never mentioned this before, but my job is a home shopping driver for one of the supermarkets. I spent the entire pandemic working my ass off delivering groceries to people self isolating isolating, in lockdown, housebound, elderly etc.

Please do not lecture me on not helping. I am still delivering to people who have tested positive or who are housebound and who rely on us to deliver their groceries.

(This is also why I often comment on the fact that there is no shortage of food. I see every day dozens of customers and exactly how many and what items are out of stock or substituted. The early days of the pandemic were bad. For months now it's been no different to how it was several years ago.)

Xai: You did this in the last thread, deflected by claiming that other places have problems so ours are OK - that's like saying north koreans are starving so it's fine for people to starve here too.

And you're deflecting by trying to dismiss the fact that this issue is happening all around the world and trying desperately to claim this is all because of Brexit. You are desperate to dismiss that fact because it destroys your argument.

Xai: Before brexit we could solve out problems by poaching european truck drivers, even at short notice, to fill our skills shortages. After brexit we can't.

Why not? We can offer visas if we choose. That's the whole point of being a sovereign country, we get to choose who we allow in. It's the same reason we offered fast tracking for medical workers to help the NHS. It's the same thing countries like Australia, New Zealand etc do when they need specific skills and trades.

Xai: The rest of the world doesn't matter, this discussion is about what brexit has done to britain and the fact it has prevented us from solving our problems.

But the rest of the world does matter. Offering high pay to bring in cheap workers from Poland isn't going to work if Poland itself is short of tens of thousands of drivers and their companies are offering more money to recruit.


I clearly said that there is a crisis, not a lack of fuel.  The issue is the fuel isn't available to buy.

Not much good if its sat in a refinery, is it?

Re read and reply again.
 
Xai
2021-09-28 10:35:03 PM  
Cater in on my phone, I'll make a comprehensive reply tomorrow
 
2021-09-28 10:44:08 PM  
Is there gonna be a badge for this thread?
 
2021-09-28 11:51:43 PM  

Xai: meat0918: How long until they raise the wage of the drivers?

Because the cold day in hell is coming.

They already have - competition has driven wages up from £35,000/yr to over £55,000 with boatloads of overtime available too.

The issue isn't wages, but the number of drivers. Britain's 'native' population is distinctly older than the immigrant population with a large percentage of retirees. You can see the problems when you look at the unemployment rate - pre pandemic it was at a 40-year low of 3.8% absolutely rock bottom, so we relied upon immigrant labour to allow our economy to keep going despite so many retirees.

Obviously brexiteers could solve this by coming out of retirement, maybe even returning from canada to help out but despite me speaking to literally dozens of brexiteers about this, not a single one has ever even considered quitting their job to help or coming out of retirement (even a retired lorry driver!)

They all said the same thing, which was kind of uncanny, that they expected someone else to do it. News flash though - that's what immigrants are; Someone else.


Just when we thought he was out, you pull him back in
 
2021-09-29 12:32:56 AM  
Oh no ruin Christmas! Billions of tons of worthless crap has been made and must be thrown in to landfills! Do something!
 
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