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(Big Think)   If we can see 46 billion light years away after 13.8 billion years, does that mean we can look farther back in space than in time?   (bigthink.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, General relativity, Big Bang, Universe, Speed of light, light years, cosmic distances, expanding universe, Milky Way  
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828 clicks; posted to STEM » on 28 Sep 2021 at 7:28 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-09-28 2:30:57 AM  
No.
It would mean we need to reassess our perspective of space and the transitional effect of time over very long distances.
 
2021-09-28 2:43:02 AM  
And here we all thought making the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs was bullshirt.
 
2021-09-28 5:58:46 AM  

Redh8t: No.
It would mean we need to reassess our perspective of space and the transitional effect of time over very long distances.


This is true. I can sit on a porch setting for hours, and almost no time has passed when I need to make another jalapeño margarita. On the other hand, if I'm driving two and a half hours to meet my in laws for supper, it takes literal years off my life. I always assumed this was due to the transitive effects as well, nice to have a second thought leader with a similar theory
 
2021-09-28 6:15:17 AM  
Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/f​aq/20​15/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster-tha​n-light/

So there's that to consider.
 
2021-09-28 7:48:02 AM  
How big is the Universe? | *THE* Great Debate in Physics
Youtube 0MJCqJPMpeY
 
2021-09-28 7:49:08 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 8:00:47 AM  
So things are never where you see them.
 
2021-09-28 8:15:19 AM  
Sounds like someone thinks they're the center of the universe.
 
2021-09-28 8:39:11 AM  

question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.


expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.
 
2021-09-28 8:51:33 AM  
"Technically" in the sense of an impossibility for an observation due to relativity or cosmological solution, there are limits which include the optical horizon, set at the surface of last scattering. This is the farthest distance that any photon can freely stream. Similarly, the neutrino horizon is set at the farthest distance a neutrino can freely stream and a gravitational wave at the farthest distance that gravitational waves can freely stream. The latter is predicate to be a direct end of cosmic inflation.
 
2021-09-28 9:05:16 AM  
Perhaps.
 
2021-09-28 9:37:00 AM  

You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?


This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.
 
2021-09-28 9:37:47 AM  
Something about curves being longer than the straight lines connecting points on an arc?
 
2021-09-28 9:39:57 AM  

Tranquil Hegemony: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.


Heisenberg approves of your answer.
 
2021-09-28 9:47:22 AM  

You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.


Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.
 
2021-09-28 10:22:03 AM  

A Cave Geek: Tranquil Hegemony: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.

Heisenberg approves of your answer.


Schrodinger simultaneously approves and disapproves.
 
2021-09-28 10:29:08 AM  

dittybopper: A Cave Geek: Tranquil Hegemony: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.

Heisenberg approves of your answer.

Schrodinger simultaneously approves and disapproves.


Thomas Goddard finds thirteen ways to approve and disapprove simultaneously.
 
2021-09-28 10:40:16 AM  

A Cave Geek: Tranquil Hegemony: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.

Heisenberg approves of your answer.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 10:49:41 AM  

LoneCoon: I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.


And if they get upset that the sun is going to die, they are not comforted by being told that all life on Earth will be dead long before the sun consumes us.
 
2021-09-28 11:07:01 AM  

LoneCoon: The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.


MRS. BROWN: [sigh] Makes you feel so, sort of, insignificant, doesn't it?

MAN: Yeah. Yeah. [sniff] Can we have your liver, then?

MRS. BROWN: Yeah. All right. You talked me into it.
 
2021-09-28 11:31:11 AM  

question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.


Over what distance?  Yes, space can expand faster than light but currently does so only on a scale of 'only matters to astronomers and physicists'.
 
2021-09-28 11:37:16 AM  
All explosions happen as a perfect sphere, no matter the scale. We do not know where in that sphere we exist, and because of that we cannot properly orient our understanding of what we are seeing compared to the actual center of the universe. Until we can actually know that with accuracy, we cannot actually know for sure how old things really are
 
2021-09-28 11:39:14 AM  
You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it (space) is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
 
2021-09-28 11:40:23 AM  

lifeslammer: All explosions happen as a perfect sphere, no matter the scale. We do not know where in that sphere we exist, and because of that we cannot properly orient our understanding of what we are seeing compared to the actual center of the universe. Until we can actually know that with accuracy, we cannot actually know for sure how old things really are


Are you actually crazy or just pretending for a Fark audience?
 
2021-09-28 11:51:06 AM  

Tranquil Hegemony: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

This is kind of a meaningless question - like asking "what's outside of everything". The universe isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing else to expand into. It's just expanding. The distance between (non-gravitationally-bound) objects is increasing, and not because those objects are moving.

Basically, it's about the space between things, not the space "outside" of everything, which doesn't exist.


Think about it as living inside a balloon. We can detect that the balloon is getting larger, but we'll never be able to determine what - if anything - exists outside of the balloon. Nothing can cross the boundary.
 
2021-09-28 12:30:13 PM  
It's all relative.
 
2021-09-28 12:39:23 PM  

LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.


I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?
 
2021-09-28 12:47:07 PM  

You Are All Sheep: LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.

I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?


Imagine we're in an infinite space, but your eyes are magically sharp enough to see as far as you want to.

Now someone comes along and says, "nope, I'm putting up a wall".  Now no matter how hard you try, you can't see further than about 14 billion light years.

That wall is your balloon's inner surface.  And because the wall is from the past (speed of light delay), it's the same no matter where you go.  If you could teleport to the Andromeda galaxy, that wall would look the same distance away.

What's past that wall?  Well, 'now' there is just infinitely more universe you just can't see.  Back when the wall existed?  Infinitely more universe you couldn't see, only hotter and denser.

And before that?  Still infinite but we can't model it so we don't know what it was like.
 
2021-09-28 1:08:47 PM  
Well now I'm going to go get high and watch "The Universe" on the Science channel.
 
2021-09-28 1:25:58 PM  

Unsung_Hero: You Are All Sheep: LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.

I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?

Imagine we're in an infinite space, but your eyes are magically sharp enough to see as far as you want to.

Now someone comes along and says, "nope, I'm putting up a wall".  Now no matter how hard you try, you can't see further than about 14 billion light years.

That wall is your balloon's inner surface.  And because the wall is from the past (speed of light delay), it's the same no matter where you go.  If you could teleport to the Andromeda galaxy, that wall would look the same distance away.

What's past that wall?  Well, 'now' there is just infinit ...


The further you delve into astrophysics, the closer it sounds to sci fi...Except it's real.  Kinda like quantum physics.  The further you go, the stranger it gets...except for the fact that..again...it's real.
 
db2
2021-09-28 2:34:15 PM  

You Are All Sheep: LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.

I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?


It's contained within whatever substrate our simulation takes place, duh.
 
2021-09-28 2:54:22 PM  

felching pen: And here we all thought making the Kessel Run in under 12 parsecs was bullshirt.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 6:19:24 PM  

You Are All Sheep: LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.

I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?


The Universe is thought to be infinite, so there is no edge of the balloon. Any location looks like any other location, according to our theories

Kinda pops the analogy a bit, but it reinforces the point that it isn't expanding into anything
 
2021-09-29 1:48:21 AM  
Q&D:  13.8 billion years is time as measured a reference frame equivalent to the average velocity of all matter in the universe.  46 billion years is distance of the furthest galaxies we can see in our reference frame in which the galaxy is moving very quickly away from us and so space and time are dilated.

Since few if any galaxies have a very high velocity relative to the average velocity of the universe, this is a good reference to use that approximates subjective age.  But you can't do that with galaxies moving relative to each other at a significant fraction of the speed of light.
 
2021-09-29 6:09:48 AM  

lifeslammer: All explosions happen as a perfect sphere, no matter the scale. We do not know where in that sphere we exist, and because of that we cannot properly orient our understanding of what we are seeing compared to the actual center of the universe. Until we can actually know that with accuracy, we cannot actually know for sure how old things really are


If the Universe is expanding, where is the centre?
Youtube IEtPy0o8i0M
 
2021-09-29 12:59:06 PM  

New Farkin User Name: You Are All Sheep: LoneCoon: You Are All Sheep: question_dj: Isn't the prevailing hypothesis that expansion of space is faster than light?

Yeah, it is: https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/fa​q/2015/11/09/is-space-expanding-faster​-than-light/

So there's that to consider.

expansion of space into what?  from what?

don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing it just makes my brain hurt about 'what was here before there was here' and all that.

No, don't bring up supernatural stuff, I don't believe in that.

Space and time don't exist in the way that we typically understand outside the barriers of the universe. It's not expanding anywhere that is somewhere. We couldn't take a space ship there, because there's no there to go to. It's more like a balloon that someone's filling up with air. The outer skin of the balloon is the edge of the universe and it will either expand forever (The Big Freeze), Contract (The Big Crunch), or tear (the Big Rip) and the universe as we know it will end.

I started learning all this stuff at around age 7 and I've had periodic states of existential crisis ever since. Do your kids/nieces/nephews a favor and don't tell them the sun in going to die. It doesn't help things.

I do get that but my brain doesn't 'like' that there is nothing outside of the something.  I mean what is nothing?  black void?  what do you see if you sit on the edge of the balloon?  or you don't see until you look into existence?

The Universe is thought to be infinite, so there is no edge of the balloon. Any location looks like any other location, according to our theories

Kinda pops the analogy a bit, but it reinforces the point that it isn't expanding into anything


I do like the idea that the visible universe is how far you'd see on a beach.  Like we'rea grain of sand that can see a foot in every direction.  there's a lot more beach there, we just can't see it yet.
 
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