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(Eudaimonia)   Americans are getting ripped off and they don't even know it   (eand.co) divider line
    More: Murica, good reason, Viggo Mortensen, States, shudder, year, life  
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9556 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 28 Sep 2021 at 8:30 AM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-28 2:38:56 PM  

Smackledorfer: Tldr: you aren't just saying it can be done. You are saying it is a solution advisable to wage slaves.


Are you trying to sound like an aggressive dick? You're succeeding admirably.

Ok so since you're waiting...

I said you have to have skills. Did you miss that part?

So, maybe you could Google what skills are in demand abroad. Health care, IT, stuff like this? Or on the cheap, get a CELTA English teaching cert, and go teach english till you figure out your next step. Knew a lot of expats who started teaching English, especially the ones who went to Asia. My brother did this in Japan as part of the JET program.

Awaiting the next angry goal post move,
Your obtuse asshole
 
2021-09-28 3:03:18 PM  

Father_Jack: Smackledorfer: Father_Jack: Subtonic: Father_Jack: Subtonic: And the cherry on top. Just move, stupid!

i did.That's why i'm saying you should too.

Next you'll ask why I don't just buy more money.

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN

and sorry for coming across like a humblebragging douche. its a hard line to walk online.

on the one hand, if i provide a lot of numbers and details, it sounds like i'm tooting my horn. but if i dont provide deets, it sounds like just talking points and not "real".

anyway hard balance to strike.

/sorry
//you should still move tho, america sucks

You claim you moved permanently to Germany.

Ok, tell me how any of the people in a bad financial trap in US can move to Germany. Are they taking economic refugees from the US? We both know they aren't. Do they let visa overstays work and stay forever? We both know they don't.

In fact, you require either a job offer to sponsor you for a work visa or the kind of cash to be a job creator 250,000 euros.

I believe, iirc, tracing lineage back can get something too. At least that's what my born in Germany grandfather has told me long ago.

So when you say "why don't you just move to a place like Germany" you are being an obtuse asshole. And it makes you come off like a liar who doesn't know what it takes to move.

Will given as I have moved abroad 3x to Germany and 2x to Switzerland at various points in my life I do think I know how to do it as I have done so. Sure your mileage may vary based on your circumstances but if you have the desire and any redeemable set of skills in a wide variety of professions, yes, you can emigrate.

I have friends in berlin and zurich who aren't even german speaking who did it. Or if you want to not have to learn german you can go to Australia or New Zealand- friends and relatives of mine have done that, too.

Yes you need skills - but that's true to any country. I've only cold moved to another country 2x the rest of the times were internal transfers.

So, if exhorting people to get out of a country that wants to enslave them makes me sound like an obtuse asshole, well...okay, if that's how you wanna take it?

All I'm trying to say is,it can be done, many of us have done it, and leave to a place where regular people don't worry about getting fired all the time, where their kids funding is going to come from, or when theyre gonna get a day off.

Each time I've done its taken about a year to coordinate,plan get the visas from the embassies etc. Generally it's a hassle but doable. It's easier for academic visas since the unis do the lifting. Then you get to your country of destination and flail for a year or two till you get it dialed. A lot of expats bail at that point - a mistake I made 2x.

After about yr 3 you're settled and the noise and bullshiat is far away, only really shows up when you get called an obtuse asshole by wage slaves on fark.

Places like Australia give you citizenship reasonably quickly, Germany is less generous w the passport but perm residency is reasonable. The german heritage thing is a thing but I'm not sure as I've not investigated it since I'm not a kraut by heritage. The Italians and the Irish do this as well. Maybe evildog can Comme. On getting a Nederlands paaasseenpoortengraaacht, which I'm sure is the Dutch word for that


I'm not a Dutch citizen, I am here on a work visa. Anyone can apply for a job here and if you get it you can live here. After 5 years you can apply for permanent residency or citizenship. One unique thing about The Netherlands is the Dutch American Friendship Treaty. This allows American entrepreneurs to come here to start businesses.
 
2021-09-28 3:04:03 PM  
Oh, it's this guy again. His particular brand of outrage porn is particularly unpalatable to me, but I have to admire his tenacity in writing a new article every few days to get those shock clicks.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 3:05:58 PM  

SUMMERSN0WS: I asked about someone stuck in an abusive relationship who can't afford $1400 a month rent, and your answer was that *other* people are fine, as if ignoring the number of people that can't afford housing.


I'm sorry, but we're literally discussing the mathematics Umar used to prove that incomes are not high enough. He made an error.  The real number you use to deduct household expenses from is household income.  There is nothing more or less to it than that.  That some households are suboptimal is a problem in every nation, but it's not relevant to the numbers Umar is clumsily using to make a false point.

/Those who can't afford rent, AC, heat, internet, or food better than ramen noodles DGAF about statistics and math theories.

Those who attempt to understand and prescribe solutions to those problems DO GAF about using the correct numbers.  You can't solve a problem with bad data.  Umar can be upset about the cost of living if he would like, but if he wants to sit with the professionals and actually deal with problems, he's going to have to use the language of the professionals.  He's not.
 
2021-09-28 3:07:00 PM  

Father_Jack: Smackledorfer: Tldr: you aren't just saying it can be done. You are saying it is a solution advisable to wage slaves.

Are you trying to sound like an aggressive dick? You're succeeding admirably.

Ok so since you're waiting...

I said you have to have skills. Did you miss that part?

So, maybe you could Google what skills are in demand abroad. Health care, IT, stuff like this? Or on the cheap, get a CELTA English teaching cert, and go teach english till you figure out your next step. Knew a lot of expats who started teaching English, especially the ones who went to Asia. My brother did this in Japan as part of the JET program.

Awaiting the next angry goal post move,
Your obtuse asshole


So again, your proposed solution to how shiatty america is for the folks referred to in TFA has no bearing at all on those folks.

And in lieu of telling us all how simple it is, you tell us to study it out.

fwiw, I'm not looking to leave america, as I'm doing well here. I'm just explaining to you why someone accused you of saying "next you'll ask why I don't buy more money".  Your solution to those in a bad situation is to "just do things that take lots of money"
 
2021-09-28 3:08:48 PM  

Baloo Uriza: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Last time the Democrats were in charge they tried to fix healthcare.  The howling obstructionism from Republicans was deafening.

What that actually looked like:
[Fark user image 850x448]


Thank you. It's hard to imagine something dumber than a Ben Garrison cartoon and the visualization here is a real help.
 
2021-09-28 3:13:49 PM  
Not sure what I think about the article because it's just so high level and cherry picking as some other folks have said. That FRED chart is of limited use... yeah mortgage debt is high... so are home values. That isn't really a good comparison to illustrating the impact of an average American's upward mobility, purchasing power, short term debt, etc etc. It also leaves off important factors like income/debt ratio, maturity of debt etc.

The apples to oranges comparisons throughout the article also feel tired and silly.... he talks about paying $30/month for TV in Europe and then says in the US it's $150. There's no obligation to pay $150... where does he even get that? Throw up an Antenna and get it for free. Make a wide variety of streaming choices, and easily keep it at whatever price point you want.

His statement on utility bills is preposterous. Much of the US is getting an average of 0.11/kWh [1], while the EU is an average 0.21 Euro/kWh. ($0.025 ) [2]
Natural gas rates in the US are similar... $10.80/1000 cubic feet[3], while the EU is 0.07euro /kWh [4]
3.41 cubic feet of natural gas = 1kWh, and a a Euro/dollar rate of 1:1.17  would make the EU average $24/1k cubic feet.

Makes me wonder if he got an NYC apartment for his writing gig and then realized he had asked for far too little money.

He also says the average income in the US is $35K. He has a link to his data, but, I think the median income per household is more accurate at $67K [5]. The average income in the EU is 17,858 Euro. ($20893). [6]
So $35K vs $21K?
t's a pity that the EU doesn't count by household since not everyone has a full-time job. Multiplying the EU number x2 might be a fair comparisons of household since they don't survey it quite the same way.
But still we'd be talking $67K vs $41.8K
The US household income is not net, so subtract about $4.6K for taxes. ( assuming married's filing jointly, standard deduction etc )  so $62.5K vs $41.8K

I'm not going to touch the health care stuff... it might be correct, it might not be. there are so many YMMV things there and I'm not going to defend it. It's not a good system.

But the thing is... I really wish this had been an actual in-depth comparison of what the costs really are. Being so flippant and claiming we're being ripped off needs to come with solid facts, otherwise it's emotional whining.


[1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/m​onthl​y/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a
[2] https://www.statista.com/statisti​cs/10​46505/household-electricity-prices-eur​opean-union-eu28-country/
[3] https://www.statista.com/statisti​cs/18​7308/average-price-for-natural-gas-in-​the-us-by-sector-since-2005/
[4] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/sta​tisti​cs-explained/index.php?title=Natural_g​as_price_statistics#Natural_gas_prices​_for_household_consumers
[5] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/p​ress-​releases/2021/income-poverty-health-in​surance-coverage.html
[6] https://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.​eu/nui/show.do?dataset=ilc_di04
 
2021-09-28 3:16:30 PM  

Father_Jack: That being said, i live in germany, and i can agree with much of what he's saying:


Father_Jack: i guess i'm advocating that americans should learn a foreign language and leave for somewhere in western europe. There are plenty of jobs here, come get one.


I figured I'd remind Father_Jack of his own words, lest he continue trying to claim he wasn't proposing "move to europe" as a solution to the struggling wage slaves TFA is talking about.

And he's gone from "just learn a language and come on over!" to "oh, and yes you need to have an in-demand skillset that requires an education, multiple years of navigating immigration, etc"

Telling the guy making 35,000 dollars in wage slavery in the US he should just spend a few years getting a skill that is in-demand in France and learning French and then spend a couple more years navigating their system and finding the company who wants to hire him is terrible farking advice.

It's perfectly fine advice for the guy making 170,000 dollars who already has a skillset that is in demand though. But something tells me the author isn't that concerned about them.
 
2021-09-28 3:20:29 PM  

Nick Nostril: BlazeTrailer: Nick Nostril: Unfortunately, for many/most 'muricans, The United States of America is the name of a planet, not a single country amongst many on a planet. Their view of the world ends at the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.

Or they get the sense that this douche is representative of the rest of the world and DECIDE that the Atlantic and Pacific are boundaries to maintain some sanity.

Indeed. The US is the only developed country without some sort of single payer healthcare system. We must be the ones doing it right.


What the hell are Medicaid and Medicare then? They cover more health procedures than any other system.
 
2021-09-28 3:24:13 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Last time the Democrats were in charge they tried to fix healthcare.  The howling obstructionism from Republicans was deafening.

What that actually looked like:
[Fark user image 850x448]

Thank you. It's hard to imagine something dumber than a Ben Garrison cartoon and the visualization here is a real help.


The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.  The problem is, they don't.
 
2021-09-28 3:25:59 PM  

proteus_b: What the hell are Medicaid and Medicare then? They cover more health procedures than any other system.


Even pretending Medicaid and Medicare were one entity, since they do not cover the entire population you can't really call that "single-payer" without completely failing to understand the word single.
 
2021-09-28 3:31:50 PM  
That guy thinks he has some sort of special insight. We KNOW we're being ripped off. And for the most part, we can't do a damned thing about it.
 
2021-09-28 3:39:50 PM  

Farking Clown Shoes: In other words...
[i.redd.it image 525x452]


Fark that. It's everyone and it's everywhere.
 
2021-09-28 3:49:00 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: That guy thinks he has some sort of special insight. We KNOW we're being ripped off. And for the most part, we can't do a damned thing about it.


Oh please, you can easily just become a highly skilled individual that is in-demand in the Netherlands in an area where there are a low number of Dutch filling the slot and an employer will have your permits in place in just a few weeks.

Or you can open a Taco Bell franchise there and as an Entrepreneur all you'll have to do is show the Dutch authorities that living mas provides a cultural, training, and employment benefit to their country.

Lazy American wage slaves staying in America.


Excessive snark aside, there are billions of people living on dollars per day. I don't know why they don't all move to Europe.  Oh wait, ya know what, it is literally impossible to explain how stupid "just move" is as a solution to things without snark.  The EU has 450 million people. The US has 350 million.  Billions are doing worse than those in the US.  But the EU... man that's where the jobs is, I tell you what.

BTW, Germany has around 300,000 people living and working there who aren't EU citizens.

350,000,000
000,300,000

Well, wait though, I left out their Blue Cards, which are for the educated. They've got like 30,000 of those too!

So... I guess the largest economy in the EU and the 4th largest economy in the world can probably keep it's non-EU worker numbers growing by 20% or so per year, give the entirety of that growth to US citizens (US makes up about 7% of the work permits they grant), and that solves the problem for 60,000 upper middle class (and some of the lower upper, depending on terminology) trying to flee the cesspool of mad max life that is the United States.

/the crazy thing about this thread is I'm rarely a defender of the US and love lots of the policies in the rest of what we lazily call the first world, and constantly attack our poor policies. But it is, quite frankly, absurd to suggest that the US is a shiathole of wage slavery in the big picture, and doubly shenanigans to propose moving as a solution. The solution to our shiatty situation here involves our own people ceasing to vote for the GOP and taking it from there.  I wish us luck.
 
2021-09-28 4:09:34 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: Oh, it's this guy again. His particular brand of outrage porn is particularly unpalatable to me, but I have to admire his tenacity in writing a new article every few days to get those shock clicks.

[Fark user image 684x1080]


Yep.  This guy is a pizza cutter.  All edge and no point or viable solution.   Not even a "We should try to improve society somewhat".

Just AMERICA SUX, LOL! so you should RUN AWAY FROM YOUR PROBLEMS! THE GRASS IN EUROPE IS EXCEPTIONALLY GREEN!

Personally I'd rather stick around and try to improve society in whatever small way I can.
 
2021-09-28 4:11:40 PM  
I was at a bar on a work trip in 2018 in San Diego across from my hotel enjoying a drink when a chubby American woman (European obese - American cute) from Texas saddled up to me and I think started hitting on me.

I told her I was an American that lived to Europe and based on her questions I told her that my quality of life is so much better in Europe than the USA and I have no intention on moving back.

She was physically distressed. Much like many of the responses in this thread.

The author is right. The USA is one of the richest countries in the world but everyone lives like a poor European. You have to drive everywhere (instead of driving being a luxury), you eat like poor people, you cant go to the hospital like poor Europeans on general insurance, you have no retirement, just everything sucks.
 
2021-09-28 4:14:21 PM  

starsrift: It's called serfdom. Very old concept. Still works! Just have to hide it behind a few layers.


Sounds like slavery with extra steps.
 
2021-09-28 4:15:40 PM  

Baloo Uriza: The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.


You don't have to explain it: I get what it was trying to say, but it's also untrue. The last time Democrats had a supermajority it lasted for less than a year (it was during the 111th Congress). President Barack Obama called a special joint session of Congress to promote health care reform, which successfully passed.

(That session was infamous for producing this infamous image of an asshole)
i2.cdn.turner.comView Full Size


Here's what they managed to get through:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_U​n​ited_States_Congress#Major_legislation​

The supermajority ended with the election of Scott Brown (R-MA) on February 4, 2010. Congress then became infamously obstructive even to the point of blocking any and all nominations via parliamentary procedures.
 
2021-09-28 4:17:49 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: (That session was infamous for producing this infamous image of an asshole)


My inner editor know what's up and is on vacation. Shut up.
 
2021-09-28 4:28:48 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.

You don't have to explain it: I get what it was trying to say, but it's also untrue. The last time Democrats had a supermajority it lasted for less than a year (it was during the 111th Congress). President Barack Obama called a special joint session of Congress to promote health care reform, which successfully passed.


Passing the Republican bill of making the broken system mandatory isn't exactly a success when the Democrat bill was single payer universal healthcare.
 
2021-09-28 4:30:20 PM  
America is only expensive when you are poor.

Democrats have a pretty good idea of what makes you not poor.

$400,000/year

From there on up, housing, health care and education become very manageable. Not to say you can't live comfortably on less, but that is where money is no longer an obstacle to much of anything.
 
2021-09-28 4:34:53 PM  

Rapmaster2000: SUMMERSN0WS: I asked about someone stuck in an abusive relationship who can't afford $1400 a month rent, and your answer was that *other* people are fine, as if ignoring the number of people that can't afford housing.

I'm sorry, but we're literally discussing the mathematics Umar used to prove that incomes are not high enough. He made an error.  The real number you use to deduct household expenses from is household income.  There is nothing more or less to it than that.  That some households are suboptimal is a problem in every nation, but it's not relevant to the numbers Umar is clumsily using to make a false point.

/Those who can't afford rent, AC, heat, internet, or food better than ramen noodles DGAF about statistics and math theories.

Those who attempt to understand and prescribe solutions to those problems DO GAF about using the correct numbers.  You can't solve a problem with bad data.  Umar can be upset about the cost of living if he would like, but if he wants to sit with the professionals and actually deal with problems, he's going to have to use the language of the professionals.  He's not.


So he's not wothwhile because he's a media communicator who's calling attention to a real problem of inequality on a global scale, and not in a think tank writing scientific papers about it no one will read? WTF?
 
2021-09-28 4:41:29 PM  

BeotchPudding: FARK : 'It's not News, it's communist/socialist talking points'


Well,...bye.
 
2021-09-28 4:43:48 PM  

NotCodger: "Heating, electricity, gas, water? These things caneasily add up to $500 to $1000 dollars per month."

Where the fark is he living?


Seriously!  Even his ISP numbers are high.  It's certainly not what you have to spend.  But utilities?  FFS, if you are paying that much you are doing it so wrong.

Then the rental number he's complaining about, $1200, is laughably low here in the Bay Area.  People here would be thrilled if it were that cheap.  My daughter is paying double that for a small 1br apartment that is somewhat near her work.
 
2021-09-28 4:45:13 PM  

Baloo Uriza: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.

You don't have to explain it: I get what it was trying to say, but it's also untrue. The last time Democrats had a supermajority it lasted for less than a year (it was during the 111th Congress). President Barack Obama called a special joint session of Congress to promote health care reform, which successfully passed.

Passing the Republican bill of making the broken system mandatory isn't exactly a success when the Democrat bill was single payer universal healthcare.


As a reminder, here's the original claim:

Fark user imageView Full Size


I've provided that in the less than a year that Democrats had a supermajority, they reformed health care, fair pay, CHIP, credit card consumer protections, Wall Street reform, prison sentencing reform, and DADT repeal (this was all in the link I provided). Not stellar, but not bad for the all-Benghazi-all-the-time sh*tstorm and seventy ACA repeal attempts that would follow a few years later.

I happen to agree with you that I wish the Democrats had been bolder about health care reform, but I also realize the luxury of armchair quarterbacking.
 
2021-09-28 4:47:41 PM  

tansa: America is only expensive when you are poor.

Democrats have a pretty good idea of what makes you not poor.

$400,000/year

From there on up, housing, health care and education become very manageable. Not to say you can't live comfortably on less, but that is where money is no longer an obstacle to much of anything.


Democrats?  It was the GQP that declared $450,000 to be middle-class, an amount that puts people in the .5%.
 
2021-09-28 4:52:55 PM  

BeotchPudding: Unright: BeotchPudding: FARK : 'It's not News, it's communist/socialist talking points'

Because the U.S. is the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the earth? Ok, Hannity.

It would be really awesome if the US swallowed some pride and learned from what other countries were doing well.

What Country spread Democracy around the world?


1) Random capitalization make you sound like an idiot.
2) Just because you think the US is "spreading democracy", it still doesn't mean that they are getting anything else right.
3) The US hasn't really spread democracy to the rest of the world. If a dictator is lining their pockets, then they'll support that dictator. When democracy is inconvenient, then the US tends to destabilize that government.
 
2021-09-28 5:02:08 PM  

tansa: America is only expensive when you are poor.

Democrats have a pretty good idea of what makes you not poor.

$400,000/year

From there on up, housing, health care and education become very manageable. Not to say you can't live comfortably on less, but that is where money is no longer an obstacle to much of anything.


Were you featured in this infographic several years ago?
si.wsj.netView Full Size
 
2021-09-28 5:07:32 PM  

akya: tansa: America is only expensive when you are poor.

Democrats have a pretty good idea of what makes you not poor.

$400,000/year

From there on up, housing, health care and education become very manageable. Not to say you can't live comfortably on less, but that is where money is no longer an obstacle to much of anything.

Were you featured in this infographic several years ago?
[si.wsj.net image 850x560]


FFS, can you imagine?  If was making $230,000 I'd feel like I won the goddamned Power Ball.
 
2021-09-28 5:16:03 PM  

RedVentrue: Rapmaster2000: SUMMERSN0WS: I asked about someone stuck in an abusive relationship who can't afford $1400 a month rent, and your answer was that *other* people are fine, as if ignoring the number of people that can't afford housing.

I'm sorry, but we're literally discussing the mathematics Umar used to prove that incomes are not high enough. He made an error.  The real number you use to deduct household expenses from is household income.  There is nothing more or less to it than that.  That some households are suboptimal is a problem in every nation, but it's not relevant to the numbers Umar is clumsily using to make a false point.

/Those who can't afford rent, AC, heat, internet, or food better than ramen noodles DGAF about statistics and math theories.

Those who attempt to understand and prescribe solutions to those problems DO GAF about using the correct numbers.  You can't solve a problem with bad data.  Umar can be upset about the cost of living if he would like, but if he wants to sit with the professionals and actually deal with problems, he's going to have to use the language of the professionals.  He's not.

So he's not wothwhile because he's a media communicator who's calling attention to a real problem of inequality on a global scale, and not in a think tank writing scientific papers about it no one will read? WTF?


He's not worthwhile because his points weren't relevant.  He's not worthwhile because he's a lazy thinker and writer.
 
2021-09-28 5:20:03 PM  

Smackledorfer: Even pretending Medicaid and Medicare were one entity, since they do not cover the entire population you can't really call that "single-payer" without completely failing to understand the word single.


Even if they were one entity, it wouldn't be single-payer in the context of "single-payer system" like the UK's NHS. My point was just that it's foolish to claim that there is not goverment sponsored health insurance in the USA. There is a ton.
 
2021-09-28 5:21:18 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.

You don't have to explain it: I get what it was trying to say, but it's also untrue. The last time Democrats had a supermajority it lasted for less than a year (it was during the 111th Congress). President Barack Obama called a special joint session of Congress to promote health care reform, which successfully passed.

Passing the Republican bill of making the broken system mandatory isn't exactly a success when the Democrat bill was single payer universal healthcare.

As a reminder, here's the original claim:

[Fark user image 850x208]

I've provided that in the less than a year that Democrats had a supermajority, they reformed health care, fair pay, CHIP, credit card consumer protections, Wall Street reform, prison sentencing reform, and DADT repeal (this was all in the link I provided). Not stellar, but not bad for the all-Benghazi-all-the-time sh*tstorm and seventy ACA repeal attempts that would follow a few years later.

I happen to agree with you that I wish the Democrats had been bolder about health care reform, but I also realize the luxury of armchair quarterbacking.


Either way, the fact that the GQP stomps a mudhole in America and the Democrats just farking roll over every time it's their turn to fight for America is embarrassing.  The American Taliban isn't farking around, and the Democrats are asking for permission and going for bipartisanship.  Nobody wants that, they want the GQP steamrolled.
 
2021-09-28 5:24:55 PM  
Americans are so isolated from the rest of the world that propaganda works perfectly on them.  They literally have nothing to compare it to.  They are utterly clueless.
 
2021-09-28 5:37:16 PM  

vrax: FFS, can you imagine?  If was making $230,000 I'd feel like I won the goddamned Power Ball.


It sounds like a lot until you make it.
 
2021-09-28 5:39:23 PM  

Smackledorfer: Father_Jack: That being said, i live in germany, and i can agree with much of what he's saying:

Father_Jack: i guess i'm advocating that americans should learn a foreign language and leave for somewhere in western europe. There are plenty of jobs here, come get one.

I figured I'd remind Father_Jack of his own words, lest he continue trying to claim he wasn't proposing "move to europe" as a solution to the struggling wage slaves TFA is talking about.

And he's gone from "just learn a language and come on over!" to "oh, and yes you need to have an in-demand skillset that requires an education, multiple years of navigating immigration, etc"

Telling the guy making 35,000 dollars in wage slavery in the US he should just spend a few years getting a skill that is in-demand in France and learning French and then spend a couple more years navigating their system and finding the company who wants to hire him is terrible farking advice.

It's perfectly fine advice for the guy making 170,000 dollars who already has a skillset that is in demand though. But something tells me the author isn't that concerned about them.


Man. Why so triggered bro

You asked how I did/how it was done, I told you my experience and those I've known. Sone were wealthy many were not, some were middle aged like me others were kids who wanted to travel who teach art lessons to kids. Or were career enlisted who came over here when their service ended. They were neither rich not educated, and made it work. Or,probably the biggest expat group, people who marry into it and have to start from scratch. But its all shenanigans evidently.

Somehow you came up w this 35k a year poor and advising them so I guess that's you being angry or something ? Who knows but not sure why you brought it up

Anyway, sorry I pushed your buttons, you don't normally seem to be such an asshole nor do I think what I said deserved your rudeness.
 
2021-09-28 5:45:42 PM  

Father_Jack: You asked how I did/how it was done,


I've explained how it actually works, and doesn't work, and presented numbers.

You've gone "bunches can do it, jobs are there, tfa is article, flee America" which is dumb.

There's no triggering here, just me giving you the chance to not be stupid, and you doubling down.

I'm sure your advice will come in handy for the fraction of a percent of EU visas that go to American workers though.

"Get skills"

Ok, thanks.
 
2021-09-28 5:47:05 PM  

Father_Jack: Somehow you came up w this 35k a year poor


So you dnrtfa, despite claiming you supported the author's argument?

Because the author came up with that number. That number is what this thread is about: whether Americans are wage slaves being robbed by the system, and what to do to solve it.
 
2021-09-28 5:55:42 PM  

Father_Jack: But its all shenanigans evidently.


Forgive the multiple replies, but mobile fark isn't friendly.

Yes, it IS shenanigans, as I already explained when pointing out the numbers involved in German work visas. That you've surrounded yourself with expats is meaningless. It isn't about you. It isn't about me, either.

There are 350,000,000 Americans. If america sucks compared to Germany, that's fine. I believe it. Germany will take in less than 1/100th of 1% of Americans every year. And of those, most will be high skilled.

And that's the biggest economy of the EU. You presented advice, in response on the author's grandiose nonsense that america sucks, that will help no one who needs it. If telling you how shiatty that advice is makes you think I'm triggered or whatever other catchy buzzphrase you want to use to shift this discussion to personal discussions about me instead of discussing the facts, well... That's pathetic of you.

America has a shiatload of problems. Fleeing to EU solves them for essentially nobody.
 
2021-09-28 5:57:18 PM  
Ok. So bouncing between asking me what I'm saying and referencing the article. The phrase "wir reden an einander vorbei" comes to mind here. Attempting to clarify = doubling down? K. Anyways too many replies to make sense of it at this point and it's late here.still don't get why you felt the need to be such a dick at expressing what are probably legit opinions.

Thanks for the chat.
 
2021-09-28 6:09:14 PM  

Father_Jack: Ok. So bouncing between asking me what I'm saying and referencing the article.


I referenced the article because your OP referenced the article and you literally just asked me where I got 35,000 from.

This is ridiculous.
 
2021-09-28 6:23:47 PM  
Capitalism is one huge pyramid scheme.
/offer not limited to America
 
2021-09-28 6:24:04 PM  

Subtonic: reyreyrey: Subtonic: It's too early to hear from some smug euro smelling their own farts.

"And what I get in America is way, way worse. At least half of the junk on TV is ads, I don't get the wonderful and illuminating and sparkling stuff that European TV makes on a regular basis, from good coverage of global affairs to politics to economics to ground-breaking shows and movies."

Wow, surprised they didn't claim that they don't even own a TV.

I didn't read anything inaccurate, but I know some Americans just love our nightly sound bite news and our Hot Bench Judge Judy Mathis Divorce Court shows with boner pill and skin problem commercials.

There are dullards everywhere. There is tons of garbage on euro TV. It's not a uniquely American problem. And bagging on our worst television (ignoring some of the truly great stuff out there) when there are so many other problems just smacks of douchebaggery. But I guess we're all tired of hearing about racism, guns, and healthcare and he needs those clicks.


The sad truth is that although there is a lot of excellent programming here, the majority of it is only available through some sort of SVOD. And even much of that couldn't even be considered "American" aside from which behemoth distributor picks it up.
 
2021-09-28 6:28:45 PM  

Boojum2k: I've recently moved to the States - shudder - for a year or two.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


I hear Venezuela is looking for good people.
 
2021-09-28 6:28:59 PM  

Rapmaster2000: RedVentrue: Rapmaster2000: SUMMERSN0WS: I asked about someone stuck in an abusive relationship who can't afford $1400 a month rent, and your answer was that *other* people are fine, as if ignoring the number of people that can't afford housing.

I'm sorry, but we're literally discussing the mathematics Umar used to prove that incomes are not high enough. He made an error.  The real number you use to deduct household expenses from is household income.  There is nothing more or less to it than that.  That some households are suboptimal is a problem in every nation, but it's not relevant to the numbers Umar is clumsily using to make a false point.

/Those who can't afford rent, AC, heat, internet, or food better than ramen noodles DGAF about statistics and math theories.

Those who attempt to understand and prescribe solutions to those problems DO GAF about using the correct numbers.  You can't solve a problem with bad data.  Umar can be upset about the cost of living if he would like, but if he wants to sit with the professionals and actually deal with problems, he's going to have to use the language of the professionals.  He's not.

So he's not wothwhile because he's a media communicator who's calling attention to a real problem of inequality on a global scale, and not in a think tank writing scientific papers about it no one will read? WTF?

He's not worthwhile because his points weren't relevant.  He's not worthwhile because he's a lazy thinker and writer.


His points are valid and your agument is bullshiat.
 
2021-09-28 6:32:35 PM  

Avigdore: NotCodger: "Heating, electricity, gas, water? These things caneasily add up to $500 to $1000 dollars per month."

Where the fark is he living?

What is the 'heating' expense if not electricity or gas?


Fuel oil or city steam radiators. Well, and wood stoves I guess.
 
2021-09-28 6:34:55 PM  

No Catchy Nickname: Without rejecting his argument, I'd still like to see more specific data comparing US and European costs. I mean, I doubt utility costs and tax rates across Europe are the same for one thing, and I'd like to see more breakdown of the costs of other goods, bearing in mind sales tax/VAT in the EU zone is 20% or more.


I lived in England for about 15 months. Everything was smaller and more expensive. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

We do need get over our car addiction for sure though.
 
2021-09-28 6:36:24 PM  
To summarize, I always say

"Sucks to be USA".


If they make the UK the 51st state (queue jumping over Puerto Rico, Washington DC and Canada-Mexico, then we can call the new country: USUK and say "Sucks to be USUK".

I am really looking forward to using that joke a lot but not looking forward to the future of the economy, society, politicks, or anything that forwards or realizes my jest. I am not that cruel that I would applaud the aims of millions of conserrvative suckers and farkers.
 
2021-09-28 6:39:31 PM  

Persnickety: WhackingDay: I also think that a lot of this stems from our origins as fundamentalists that believe struggle and suffering builds character or makes you closer to god or some garbage. You still see this in a lot of people who repeat a mantra of "work hard" all the time. Europeans have long understood that life is more than work, but Americans cannot come to grips with that, at least as a society.

"Arbeit Macht Frei" is quite obviously far from being an American-only sentiment.  The most memorable and pitiful character in Englishman George Orwell's Animal Farm is Boxer the horse whose mantra and life philosophy was "I will work harder."  And then there's The Protestant Work Ethic espoused by Europeans like Martin Luther and Calvinists.  As with many things, America didn't invent this (although we think we did), we just scaled it up due to our nation's unusually large size and media domination.


I'm not sure if you are arguing for or against the concept, or just making observations. I personally sit in the camp of "if you want nice things you have to work for them". But I also believe we need to provide the bare minimum, and we are certainly lacking there.
 
2021-09-28 6:42:51 PM  

princhester: As others have pointed out, even while the conclusion of that article may have some validity, the facts and reasoning are crap.

So Wall St makes huge amounts out of extending credit that people can't repay?   How does that work exactly?


They probably make most of their money on transaction fees. They arbitrate risk with interest rates. That's why if you have great credit, you get huge credit lines with low interest. If you have shiatty credit, you get tiny credit lines with huge interest. It's really the whales that make them interest money and transaction fees. They have no problem taking a tax write down for 5 grand a couple ten thousand times a year.
 
2021-09-28 6:43:34 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Baloo Uriza: The point is the Democrats when they have a trifecta could ram shiat through if they wanted to without asking for Republican permission.

You don't have to explain it: I get what it was trying to say, but it's also untrue. The last time Democrats had a supermajority it lasted for less than a year (it was during the 111th Congress). President Barack Obama called a special joint session of Congress to promote health care reform, which successfully passed.

Passing the Republican bill of making the broken system mandatory isn't exactly a success when the Democrat bill was single payer universal healthcare.

As a reminder, here's the original claim:

[Fark user image image 850x208]

I've provided that in the less than a year that Democrats had a supermajority, they reformed health care, fair pay, CHIP, credit card consumer protections, Wall Street reform, prison sentencing reform, and DADT repeal (this was all in the link I provided). Not stellar, but not bad for the all-Benghazi-all-the-time sh*tstorm and seventy ACA repeal attempts that would follow a few years later.

I happen to agree with you that I wish the Democrats had been bolder about health care reform, but I also realize the luxury of armchair quarterbacking.


DADT was dead after the Log Cabin Republicans won in court challenging it. The Dems in Congress should have followed up by repealing DOMA, but instead decided to shoot DADTs corpse.
Fark user imageView Full Size


Not disputing the rest of your list, but the Dems and Obama's reactions to both DADT and DOMA repeal were very contradictory and suggested the party was more interested in keeping those policies as carrots and sticks for LGBT voters than in actually repealing them through legislation.
 
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