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(Variety)   Babylon 6?   (variety.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Babylon 5, John Sheridan, original series, new iteration of the sci-fi series, J. Michael Straczynski, head of the creative council, exploratory Earth company, five-mile-long space station  
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1754 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 27 Sep 2021 at 4:50 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-27 3:38:53 PM  
Normally, I would be very, very worried.  But it looks like JMS is on board to executive produce and write, so I am considerably more optimistic.

If CW can take a 5-year show ('Supernatural') and end up running it for fifteen seasons, maybe, just maybe, JMS won't get cut off at the knees this time around.  And there's been entire generations of improvements in CGI (for the people who are *really* worried about the effects), and great acceptance from the studios and the audiences of the idea of overall story arcs, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this go-round will clean up some of the - let's say, 'issues' - with the original.

This do-over could end up being a very good thing.
 
2021-09-27 3:50:52 PM  
Obligatory.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 3:50:58 PM  
Found a 'rendering' of "Babylon 6" online a while back:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 3:52:20 PM  
B5 is my favorite show of all time.  That said, it's original run was far from perfect.  Since JMS is involved, there is potential for it to be good.  On the other hand it's on the CW, so the quality and budget isn't where I would want it.

With some tweaks and changes, and some good casting this could be a winner.
 
2021-09-27 3:56:14 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 3:57:00 PM  

bostonguy: Obligatory.


I don't really agree with many of those.

Christoff Waltz, Zach Quinto and David Tennant I would accept.  The rest have aged out of those roles by now.
 
2021-09-27 3:58:37 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this go-round will clean up some of the - let's say, 'issues' - with the original.


Sure, there the special effects are now dated, but I'm convinced that seasons 1-4 are great. Hell, the more I even watch season 1, the more I see the brilliance at how it set up the world and plot and created the characters. (And, yes, there are some clunker episodes.)

Still, I can set aside the bad special effects for a good story with good characters.

The main problem is the rush to finish the series in season 4 when they thought they were being cancelled. And then season 5 suffered when that did not happen because they had to fill space. And there were problems with various actors leaving for various causes.

I must wonder: Will JMS commit to creating and resolving the story in a certain number of seasons? Or will they aim to make this last as long as possible by any means necessary?

Still, I wonder how the story would have evolved if say, Sinclair, Talia, and Ivanova had not left early. Maybe that will be something different in this reboot. But who the hell could be a new, say, Garibaldi and Bester and Londo and G'kar and do it well?
 
2021-09-27 4:00:38 PM  

Lord Bear: bostonguy: Obligatory.

I don't really agree with many of those.

Christoff Waltz, Zach Quinto and David Tennant I would accept.  The rest have aged out of those roles by now.


Some will be in so much makeup it won't matter.
 
2021-09-27 4:07:29 PM  
enry:

Some will be in so much makeup it won't matter.

Ian McShane is 78.  Way too old for Londo.

Ivanova was too young to participate in the E/M war, so having 53 year old Lucy Lawless play ~28 year old Ivanova doesn't make much sense.

Talia, Lyta, Vir, Marcos, Franklin and Byron are all supposed to be relatively young and/or naive, and the list has them all being played by 35-50 year old actors.
 
2021-09-27 4:14:52 PM  

bostonguy: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this go-round will clean up some of the - let's say, 'issues' - with the original.

Sure, there the special effects are now dated, but I'm convinced that seasons 1-4 are great. Hell, the more I even watch season 1, the more I see the brilliance at how it set up the world and plot and created the characters. (And, yes, there are some clunker episodes.)

Still, I can set aside the bad special effects for a good story with good characters.

The main problem is the rush to finish the series in season 4 when they thought they were being cancelled. And then season 5 suffered when that did not happen because they had to fill space. And there were problems with various actors leaving for various causes.

I must wonder: Will JMS commit to creating and resolving the story in a certain number of seasons? Or will they aim to make this last as long as possible by any means necessary?

Still, I wonder how the story would have evolved if say, Sinclair, Talia, and Ivanova had not left early. Maybe that will be something different in this reboot. But who the hell could be a new, say, Garibaldi and Bester and Londo and G'kar and do it well?


Hell, I *love* all of the original series, warts and all!  It fired the imagination, and was a breath of fresh air; a great step forward.

But I keep seeing online comments from edgelords who sneer that the effects are crap and that Straczynski can't write his way out of a paper bag.  Probably won't be long till they're here to reassure us that the new B5 will assuredly suck with him in charge.  Screw 'em.

As for 'bad special effects not stopping a good story with good characters' - the artwork on 'Rocky and Bullwinkle' was never a threat to Miyazaki, or Termite Terrace in its prime.  But those cartoons are *still* beloved because of the tremendous, and tremendously subversive, writing.

Yeah, there's a special place in hell for the person or persons unknown who jacked JMS around on the Season 5 renewal.  Bet he / they love pissing on paintings in the Smithsonian, too.
 
2021-09-27 4:15:38 PM  

Lord Bear: enry:

Some will be in so much makeup it won't matter.

Ian McShane is 78.  Way too old for Londo.

Ivanova was too young to participate in the E/M war, so having 53 year old Lucy Lawless play ~28 year old Ivanova doesn't make much sense.

Talia, Lyta, Vir, Marcos, Franklin and Byron are all supposed to be relatively young and/or naive, and the list has them all being played by 35-50 year old actors.


Yeah, I got the feeling that that graphic was composed long ago...
 
2021-09-27 4:18:44 PM  
The CW is not really known for putting writing first, so I'm expecting a paper thin plot line with really pretty 20-somethings that you can watch on mute for eye candy.

I'll be pleasantly pleased to be proven wrong, but Katsulas and Jurasik left some mighty big shoes to fill and JMS is too old now to burn the midnight oil writing the volume of episodes he did in the original.

/kinda wished JMS got the Dr. Who gig over this
 
2021-09-27 4:20:35 PM  
Pfft.. how would it be relevant nowadays? It's not like we have a fascist government staging a coup and gaslighting the public, all with social darwinists pitting everyone against each other from the shado...

--oh dear god save us.
 
2021-09-27 4:24:08 PM  
The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?
 
2021-09-27 4:24:46 PM  

koder: Pfft.. how would it be relevant nowadays? It's not like we have a fascist government staging a coup and gaslighting the public, all with social darwinists pitting everyone against each other from the shado...

--oh dear god save us.


Smart and funny.
 
2021-09-27 4:27:14 PM  
Also, I presume that a Ivanova - Talia relationship would be much more open and welcome today. Rather than just hinted at in dialogue and scene cuts.

As it should be.
 
2021-09-27 4:27:45 PM  

bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?


He doesn't become Valen and commandeer B4, making the Shadow War much worse.

Do I have to put a spoiler warning on this, now?
 
2021-09-27 4:29:38 PM  
At this time, none of the original series stars are attached to the project.

Of course they aren't. Most of them are dead.
 
2021-09-27 4:30:48 PM  

bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?


I hope this is one of the tweaks they make.  Have Sinclair and Sheridan start at the station on day 1.  Sinclair as an Ambassador and Sheridan as the commander/captain of the station.

Make Sinclair friendly to the Minbari, and Sheridan fairly unfriendly.    This would give Sheridan a bigger arc (as per Delen) and potentially add some drama between the two heads of the EA on the station.

And also resolve the Talia plot properly.  And don't do Lenier so dirty....
 
2021-09-27 4:31:01 PM  
Reposting because it's a great essay.

Babylon 5 Is the Greatest, Most Terrible SF Series

I think the reason I continue to watch B5 all the time is because of the characters. The plots are not so original. But I really identify with many of the characters in different ways.
 
2021-09-27 4:37:38 PM  

iron de havilland: bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?

He doesn't become Valen and commandeer B4, making the Shadow War much worse.

Do I have to put a spoiler warning on this, now?


OMG SPOILERS

/ kidding this time
 
2021-09-27 4:47:47 PM  
Regarding the CW:   Does anyone else find that the audio always SUCKS on The CW?

I sort of feel like it can't be this bad for everyone or SOMEBODY at the network would have noticed by now. And yet.....
 
2021-09-27 4:51:52 PM  
Worried about it being on CW.

But the BIGGER worry is that it will tell Trump 2.0 how to do totalitarianism correctly.
 
2021-09-27 4:53:40 PM  

Lord Bear: And also resolve the Talia plot properly. And don't do Lenier so dirty....


Lenier is destined to be done dirty.
He's the character that chooses wrongly for the right cause, but breaks at the wrong point.

Entirely Arthurian.
 
2021-09-27 4:53:44 PM  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 4:54:23 PM  
Babylon 5 was a farking masterpiece, and I'm mournful that half the original cast is dead.

A reboot has me extremely worried, but if it's the JMJ at the helm, I'm a bit less so.

However so much of what made that show work was the cast, I don't know that something like the 5 year interplay between Londo and G'kar could ever be matched.
 
2021-09-27 4:55:40 PM  
There's no way they'll top the cast of the original. Hopefully they at least have a higher life expectancy, though.
 
2021-09-27 4:56:09 PM  

Gordon Bennett: At this time, none of the original series stars are attached to the project.

Of course they aren't. Most of them are dead.


I was going to make the exact same comment.

Good luck, JMS. All the luck and I hope it works out so we can get some well written sci-fi again.
 
2021-09-27 4:58:31 PM  

zbtop: Babylon 5 was a farking masterpiece, and I'm mournful that half the original cast is dead.

A reboot has me extremely worried, but if it's the JMJ at the helm, I'm a bit less so.

However so much of what made that show work was the cast, I don't know that something like the 5 year interplay between Londo and G'kar could ever be matched.


It also helped that JMS built in trapdoors for all the main characters. So any cast change felt as if it was pre-planned. I guarantee we won't see JMS writing 95% of the scripts this time around.
 
2021-09-27 5:02:02 PM  

bostonguy: Obligatory.

[Fark user image 750x1500]


Ian McShane would be a better G'kar.  He can do the whole gamut of G'kar, from the early slimeball to the later holy man.
 
2021-09-27 5:04:20 PM  
JMS being involved has my attention.  With the changes in TV since the original run I have worries.  Will they have the time to be able to explore the characters or will it be in a more modern TV series style and we don't get that?  I mean I know that due to the uncertainty about renewal after season 4, they sprinted through some stuff which left season 5 with a lot of space to fill, so one would hope history would not repeat and they can balance it out.  110 episodes vs. like 50-60 would not leave as much room.
 
2021-09-27 5:08:09 PM  

bostonguy: Obligatory.

[Fark user image 750x1500]


Now THAT's what Bezos should be funneling his money into.   Musk, too.
 
2021-09-27 5:09:33 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: bostonguy: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that this go-round will clean up some of the - let's say, 'issues' - with the original.

Sure, there the special effects are now dated, but I'm convinced that seasons 1-4 are great. Hell, the more I even watch season 1, the more I see the brilliance at how it set up the world and plot and created the characters. (And, yes, there are some clunker episodes.)

Still, I can set aside the bad special effects for a good story with good characters.

The main problem is the rush to finish the series in season 4 when they thought they were being cancelled. And then season 5 suffered when that did not happen because they had to fill space. And there were problems with various actors leaving for various causes.

I must wonder: Will JMS commit to creating and resolving the story in a certain number of seasons? Or will they aim to make this last as long as possible by any means necessary?

Still, I wonder how the story would have evolved if say, Sinclair, Talia, and Ivanova had not left early. Maybe that will be something different in this reboot. But who the hell could be a new, say, Garibaldi and Bester and Londo and G'kar and do it well?

Hell, I *love* all of the original series, warts and all!  It fired the imagination, and was a breath of fresh air; a great step forward.

But I keep seeing online comments from edgelords who sneer that the effects are crap and that Straczynski can't write his way out of a paper bag.  Probably won't be long till they're here to reassure us that the new B5 will assuredly suck with him in charge.  Screw 'em.

As for 'bad special effects not stopping a good story with good characters' - the artwork on 'Rocky and Bullwinkle' was never a threat to Miyazaki, or Termite Terrace in its prime.  But those cartoons are *still* beloved because of the tremendous, and tremendously subversive, writing.

Yeah, there's a special place in hell for the person or persons unknown who jacked JMS ...


For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of the series too, but the last time I started rewatching it I noticed about halfway through season 2 that in just about every episode at least one character says the line "For what it's worth..." at some point in the episode. It doesn't take away from the overall series, but it struck me a funny when I noticed that particular writing crutch got a lot of use.
 
2021-09-27 5:10:23 PM  

sassyfrancis: The CW is not really known for putting writing first, so I'm expecting a paper thin plot line with really pretty 20-somethings that you can watch on mute for eye candy.

I'll be pleasantly pleased to be proven wrong, but Katsulas and Jurasik left some mighty big shoes to fill and JMS is too old now to burn the midnight oil writing the volume of episodes he did in the original.

/kinda wished JMS got the Dr. Who gig over this


So Babylon Babies?  Our young heroes have to find their own destinies, all while ending the Holy War between Nana and the Nanny?
 
2021-09-27 5:11:39 PM  

sassyfrancis: The CW is not really known for putting writing first, so I'm expecting a paper thin plot line with really pretty 20-somethings that you can watch on mute for eye candy.

I'll be pleasantly pleased to be proven wrong, but Katsulas and Jurasik left some mighty big shoes to fill and JMS is too old now to burn the midnight oil writing the volume of episodes he did in the original.



Typical CW casting won't really work for this show.  By virtue of the timeline, most of the main leads need to be around 40 years old.

To balance that for CW viewers, I expect the younger characters to be really young.  Talia, Lyta, Zach, Corwin, Morden and Marcus to be the typical CW plastic hotties.  Lennier a gender flipped maxim model.  T'Lon never wears a shirt so you can see his ripped Narn abs.
 
2021-09-27 5:12:08 PM  
Unfortunately every JMS series is practically exactly the same, with different colored aliens.

/liked Jeremiah a lot though
//relevant to current events
 
2021-09-27 5:15:16 PM  
It might have been ahead of its time on multi episode plotting (it wasn't but it brought it back into fashion) and shiatty CGI, but the writing for that show was pretty farking journeyman like, at best. At worst it was just pompous and melodramatic, but frequently saved by solid casting and committed acting. JMS himself did his best work on Real Ghostbusters, his original comic (Rising Stars) was pretty dreadful level-up fiction, a smutty take on watchmen.
 
2021-09-27 5:17:11 PM  

neongoats: Unfortunately every JMS series is practically exactly the same, with different colored aliens.

/liked Jeremiah a lot though
//relevant to current events


I don't recall there being aliens in "Murder, She Wrote".
 
2021-09-27 5:18:14 PM  

bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?


Maybe he'll be the AI running the station.
 
2021-09-27 5:18:54 PM  

anfrind: neongoats: Unfortunately every JMS series is practically exactly the same, with different colored aliens.

/liked Jeremiah a lot though
//relevant to current events

I don't recall there being aliens in "Murder, She Wrote".


Jessica Fletcher was a Narn telepath.  How else could she get away with all those murder and frame jobs?
 
2021-09-27 5:19:10 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Seriously, the original was just fine, why bother to remake it? Sure, the SFX is pretty dated by today's standards, and cast/network issues caused changes to the story that often worked against them, leading to season 5 being rather mediocre at best. But the story/show as a whole still worked quite successfully, and the original actors all did a tremendous job with their portrayals. What really would there be to gain from a do-over?
 
2021-09-27 5:19:16 PM  

whidbey: bostonguy: Obligatory.

[Fark user image 750x1500]

Now THAT's what Bezos should be funneling his money into.   Musk, too.


Bezos should be funneling money into musk? Who the hell would want to buy Bezos's musk, and how can I spot them from a distance and avoid them?
 
2021-09-27 5:19:18 PM  

Lord Bear: sassyfrancis: The CW is not really known for putting writing first, so I'm expecting a paper thin plot line with really pretty 20-somethings that you can watch on mute for eye candy.

I'll be pleasantly pleased to be proven wrong, but Katsulas and Jurasik left some mighty big shoes to fill and JMS is too old now to burn the midnight oil writing the volume of episodes he did in the original.


Typical CW casting won't really work for this show.  By virtue of the timeline, most of the main leads need to be around 40 years old.

To balance that for CW viewers, I expect the younger characters to be really young.  Talia, Lyta, Zach, Corwin, Morden and Marcus to be the typical CW plastic hotties.  Lennier a gender flipped maxim model.  T'Lon never wears a shirt so you can see his ripped Narn abs.


Yeah.  Recasting the show with younger, edgier versions is almost always a really bad idea - to wit:

Stargate SG-1 - Younger, Edgier
Youtube 5HeNZBItzps
 
2021-09-27 5:21:40 PM  

deadsanta: It might have been ahead of its time on multi episode plotting (it wasn't but it brought it back into fashion) and shiatty CGI, but the writing for that show was pretty farking journeyman like, at best. At worst it was just pompous and melodramatic, but frequently saved by solid casting and committed acting. JMS himself did his best work on Real Ghostbusters, his original comic (Rising Stars) was pretty dreadful level-up fiction, a smutty take on watchmen.


Wondered when you'd get here...
 
2021-09-27 5:22:46 PM  

anfrind: neongoats: Unfortunately every JMS series is practically exactly the same, with different colored aliens.

/liked Jeremiah a lot though
//relevant to current events

I don't recall there being aliens in "Murder, She Wrote".


Watch a lot of "Murder, She Wrote" there? Are you my grandma reaching out from the beyond?
 
2021-09-27 5:23:25 PM  

WelldeadLink: bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?

Maybe he'll be the AI running the station.


I thought that was Harlan Ellison?
 
2021-09-27 5:29:15 PM  
I just need to know who will play Dax.
 
2021-09-27 5:33:52 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: WelldeadLink: bostonguy: The thought I always have: What would have happened if Sinclair had stayed?

Maybe he'll be the AI running the station.

I thought that was Harlan Ellison?


no its jeffrey
 
2021-09-27 5:37:37 PM  

LurkerSupreme: [Fark user image 256x144]

Seriously, the original was just fine, why bother to remake it? Sure, the SFX is pretty dated by today's standards, and cast/network issues caused changes to the story that often worked against them, leading to season 5 being rather mediocre at best. But the story/show as a whole still worked quite successfully, and the original actors all did a tremendous job with their portrayals. What really would there be to gain from a do-over?


Maybe since it is a reboot it will turn out differently. The Shadows win and Trump VIII Jr. rules Earthdome.
 
2021-09-27 5:41:28 PM  
I just did a B5 rewatch, so I want to preface this and say that I like the show, quite a bit. But there are a few things. JMS can handle the arc well, and can handle over-the-top bombastic speeches, but two characters having a real conversation about real stuff? Usually bad. Romantic plots are awkward at best. At best. Like the only one that even kinda worked was Talia/Ivanova and they were dancing around that one, given the time period.

But the worst, the worst are when JMS or any of the other writers tries to be funny as a writer (as opposed to the comedy that arises naturally from the characters). Like when Delenn surprises Sheridan with an audience when they're about to bang ("Yeah, my friends are gonna be in the next room, meditating for us to have good sex," is kinda the sort of thing you talk about before hand). Or any episode written by Peter David. Ye gods, those were all bad.
 
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