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(SportsNaut)   Maybe it wasn't the fault of Mitch Trubisky, Nick Foles, Andy Dalton and Justin Fields after all   (sportsnaut.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, National Football League, Miami Dolphins, San Francisco 49ers, Indianapolis Colts, National Football League Most Valuable Player Award, NFL Draft, quarterback position, American Football League  
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935 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Sep 2021 at 7:42 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-27 8:36:25 AM  
Missing from the article, from WindyCityGridiron:  Fields was massacred to the tune of 9 sacks and 15 quarterback hits, with 4.5 of those sacks coming from Myles Garrett.

Ouch.  The personnel is just not there.
 
2021-09-27 8:43:37 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Missing from the article, from WindyCityGridiron:  Fields was massacred to the tune of 9 sacks and 15 quarterback hits, with 4.5 of those sacks coming from Myles Garrett.

Ouch.  The personnel is just not there.


Huh?

FTFA:
Instead of putting his quarterback in a position to succeed, Matt Nagy threw him into the fire without even adjusting his play book. That led to Fields being sacked eight times, including 4.5 times by Myles Garrett.
 
2021-09-27 9:03:40 AM  
No, Andy Dalton is 100% hot garbage.
 
2021-09-27 9:10:46 AM  
the good news is that they can hire Nagy's replacement, who will undoubtedly not see Fields as a viable NFL QB, play along with "developing him" for 2 years before drafting his replacement, and then get fired 2 years after that because his young QB is struggling.
 
2021-09-27 9:11:06 AM  
You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.
 
2021-09-27 9:16:01 AM  
NewportBarGuy No, Andy Dalton is 100% hot garbage.

I realize it's been awhile but he's a three time Pro Bowl quarterback.  He did that while playing for the Bengals.  He was also, to my knowledge, not on the field yesterday.

Fields faced good competition in college but he's a rookie in this league and he's never seen defenses like the one he faced yesterday.  He's not likely to figure this out in one year.  Once Dalton can go again they should put him back in and try to win some games.
 
2021-09-27 9:16:04 AM  
Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.
 
2021-09-27 9:20:32 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.


Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.
 
2021-09-27 9:24:31 AM  
As a Browns fan I watched every sack with glee.

However, that offense was just begging to get Fields killed.  Long drops, few rollouts, no screens, little misdirection... and all against a backdrop where the Browns D was being called out the entire week by everyone (including Miles) for not performing up to expectations.

The linked article is probably right, that coach running that offense might ruin any chance Fields has.... and we (Cleveland) know what we're talking about... hell, Tim Couch probably still wakes up in a cold sweat decades after the Browns ruined his career.
 
2021-09-27 9:42:37 AM  

Fizpez: might ruin any chance Fields has


On one hand, yeah.

On the other hand, he's a Big 10 QB that Ryan Pace likes so he sucks.
 
2021-09-27 9:44:56 AM  
Put this asshole on bathroom cleanup duty. His offense stinks.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 9:46:50 AM  
It's apparent that Nagy doesn't know how to coach to his players' strengths. He stated after the game that he didn't gameplan any rollouts or bootlegs because he was sure that the Cleveland Defense was game planning for it. So, instead he created a gameplan where an ultra mobile qb sits in the pocket behind an atrocious o-line and gets absolutely slaughtered. At this point, he's only out-coaching himself as the rest of league has realized he doesn't know what he's doing.

That motherfarker is a mistake and needs to go, now.
 
2021-09-27 9:47:07 AM  

Rapmaster2000: It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.


Denver had the fortune to have a good portion of the Bowlen's kids be nearly worthless in every way. It was really down to two pretty quick. The Bears are going to have issues.

Fizpez: Tim Couch


He'll be forever #1 on my list of 'players who should have had a chance somewhere else.' Was likely too shell shocked by the time he got out of Cleveland, though.
 
2021-09-27 9:58:53 AM  
You're all being way too hard on Nagy. Give him AT LEAST 5-6 more years to develop into an elite coach.
 
2021-09-27 10:03:30 AM  

Botkin of the Yard: NewportBarGuy No, Andy Dalton is 100% hot garbage.

I realize it's been awhile but he's a three time Pro Bowl quarterback.  He did that while playing for the Bengals.  He was also, to my knowledge, not on the field yesterday.

Fields faced good competition in college but he's a rookie in this league and he's never seen defenses like the one he faced yesterday.  He's not likely to figure this out in one year.  Once Dalton can go again they should put him back in and try to win some games.


All fair points... his first few years? He definitely was a good QB. His surrounding cast sucked for the most part, but he made it work.

Now, after that, whether it was all the hits he took (A LOT!) or whatever... he definitely lost whatever it was he had.

I fear that this might be what happens to Joe Burrows if he stays there too long.

But, Andy has been done as a QB for quite some time now.
 
2021-09-27 10:20:50 AM  
Ohio State has never produced an elite level NFL qb. They have had only 2 start as many as 20 games in the league. The most successful one was Mike Tomszak who was an undrafted free agent.
 
2021-09-27 10:36:38 AM  

Fizpez: As a Browns fan I watched every sack with glee.

However, that offense was just begging to get Fields killed.  Long drops, few rollouts, no screens, little misdirection... and all against a backdrop where the Browns D was being called out the entire week by everyone (including Miles) for not performing up to expectations.

The linked article is probably right, that coach running that offense might ruin any chance Fields has.... and we (Cleveland) know what we're talking about... hell, Tim Couch probably still wakes up in a cold sweat decades after the Browns ruined his career.


100% this.   The saddest part was when Garrett had Fields dead to rights at the end and appeared to let him go to give his teammate the sack.  Fields was running for his life on every play but three or four.   Then after the game he was all, "it's a lot slower than I thought it would be."    Not sure if that's hubris or CTE talking there.
 
2021-09-27 10:38:37 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.


That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.
 
2021-09-27 10:40:35 AM  

The5thElement: Ohio State has never produced an elite level NFL qb. They have had only 2 start as many as 20 games in the league. The most successful one was Mike Tomszak who was an undrafted free agent.


That's got some to do with it, though I'm thinking there's a lot of problems with Chicago. I've followed the Lions for over 20 years, I know shiat when I smell it, ya know?
 
2021-09-27 10:43:13 AM  
I just don't know how anyone could expect a QB to develop with protection that poor.  That goes for Bears and Jets both.
 
2021-09-27 11:09:10 AM  

Botkin of the Yard: NewportBarGuy No, Andy Dalton is 100% hot garbage.

I realize it's been awhile but he's a three time Pro Bowl quarterback.  He did that while playing for the Bengals.  He was also, to my knowledge, not on the field yesterday.

Fields faced good competition in college but he's a rookie in this league and he's never seen defenses like the one he faced yesterday.  He's not likely to figure this out in one year.  Once Dalton can go again they should put him back in and try to win some games.


He also lead the Bears to their only offensive TD in the last two games and has a lot of experience playing behind bad offensive lines. He's also not the future of the franchise and he's someone you can sacrifice to take all those hits while Fields learns from the bench. I don't know why you wouldn't start him TBH.
 
2021-09-27 11:13:37 AM  

Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.


Do they still play the blues in Chicago
When football season rolls around
When the winds start to flay,
Do the Bears fail to play
In their mud soaked burial ground?
When I was a boy they were my pride and joy
But now they only bring fatigue
To the home of the brave
The land of the free
And the doormat of the North NFC.
 
2021-09-27 11:35:56 AM  
Dan Orlosky was right this morning: Nagy's gameplay yesterday was such a disaster that was either negligence or intentionally bad and he needs to be fired today.
He won't be, of course. But he needs to be. That kid may or may not be the franchise QB this team needs, but it's beyond clear that he never will be with this coaching. They're going to ruin him.
Yes, Pace has to go, to. Fire him now or at the end of the season, whichever. Nagy should go as soon as possible. He should have been left in Cleveland.
 
2021-09-27 11:43:14 AM  

Myk-House of El: I just don't know how anyone could expect a QB to develop with protection that poor.  That goes for Bears and Jets both.


The Jets, fwiw, say they're trying to do something about it. They've spent two first-round draft picks on the o-line in the last two years, and brought in a ton of free agent o-linemen. Problem is, most of those free agents have been mediocre at best, one of them decided to retire, and Becton, their first-rounder from last year, has been hurt a lot. So we're looking at Zach Wilson getting hit every third dropback for the foreseeable future.
 
2021-09-27 11:51:09 AM  
Pace is the problem with the Bears. He doesn't value draft picks, has invested little into the offensive line (and when he finally did this past year, drafted a guy with a back injury), tries to build the team through free-agency and trades (which is the wrong approach), and can't pick the right coach to save his life. John Fox basically was on early retirement when he came here and Matt Nagy is not a good head coach by a long shot.

I had low expectations for Fields yesterday, but I didn't think Nagy would do jack shiat to put him in a position to have success. Where were the screen passes when the O-line was getting beat like a drum? The Browns had no problem making that adjustment, and started beating you over the head with it. What about moving the pocket to take advantage of Fields' mobility? Christ on a cracker the Bears did nothing right on offense yesterday.
 
2021-09-27 11:55:55 AM  

Rapmaster2000: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.

Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.


Wait till the dramatic reading of her will, when they find out she left the entire franchise to her secret lover...

Jay Cutler
 
2021-09-27 11:59:44 AM  

germ78: I had low expectations for Fields yesterday, but I didn't think Nagy would do jack shiat to put him in a position to have success.


He's a rookie. I don't know why people expect a rookie to suddenly command an NFL offense week 1. The amount of prospects that can do that is extremely small, and that's over a fairly large sample size. 

It used to be that rookies sat for a year or two behind veterans, even if it meant losing a couple seasons to the endeavor, now teams thrust them into the captain's chair way before they are ready and it ruins a bunch of them.
 
2021-09-27 12:02:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 12:02:26 PM  

Arkanaut: Myk-House of El: I just don't know how anyone could expect a QB to develop with protection that poor.  That goes for Bears and Jets both.

The Jets, fwiw, say they're trying to do something about it. They've spent two first-round draft picks on the o-line in the last two years, and brought in a ton of free agent o-linemen. Problem is, most of those free agents have been mediocre at best, one of them decided to retire, and Becton, their first-rounder from last year, has been hurt a lot. So we're looking at Zach Wilson getting hit every third dropback for the foreseeable future.


I watched the game against Denver yesterday.  Jets O-Line was a mess.  Overpowered, out of position and occasionally both.  And Denver really didn't blitz much.  I can't speak much for the talent level, but they looked very unprepared.  As in the coaching may be a a more fundamental problem.
 
2021-09-27 12:04:38 PM  

The5thElement: Ohio State has never produced an elite level NFL qb. They have had only 2 start as many as 20 games in the league. The most successful one was Mike Tomszak who was an undrafted free agent.


The same could be said for Alabama quarterbacks. Mac Jones may break that long streak of badness because Belichick and the Patriots know how to develop quarterbacks, which is really the missing element in Chicago. The only thing the Bears know how to do right are running backs and middle linebackers.
 
2021-09-27 12:11:18 PM  

germ78: The5thElement: Ohio State has never produced an elite level NFL qb. They have had only 2 start as many as 20 games in the league. The most successful one was Mike Tomszak who was an undrafted free agent.

The same could be said for Alabama quarterbacks. Mac Jones may break that long streak of badness because Belichick and the Patriots know how to develop quarterbacks, which is really the missing element in Chicago. The only thing the Bears know how to do right are running backs and middle linebackers.


Does NE know how to develop qbs? Or was Brady just that talented and had an offense specifically crafted for him. Garappolo hasn't proven a whole lot in SF, and Cam is gone because he could hang.
 
2021-09-27 12:11:36 PM  

phimuskapsi: germ78: The5thElement: Ohio State has never produced an elite level NFL qb. They have had only 2 start as many as 20 games in the league. The most successful one was Mike Tomszak who was an undrafted free agent.

The same could be said for Alabama quarterbacks. Mac Jones may break that long streak of badness because Belichick and the Patriots know how to develop quarterbacks, which is really the missing element in Chicago. The only thing the Bears know how to do right are running backs and middle linebackers.

Does NE know how to develop qbs? Or was Brady just that talented and had an offense specifically crafted for him. Garappolo hasn't proven a whole lot in SF, and Cam is gone because he could hang.


*Couldn't
 
2021-09-27 12:16:04 PM  

Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.


They hired Ernie Accorsi as a "consultant" in the 2014/2015 offseason, who told them to hire John Fox, who was an unmitigated offensive disaster and who arguably hindered Trubisky's development in his rookie season.

The owners are complete dimwits.  I'm hoping they get approval to purchase the Arlington Heights property soon so they can sell the team prior to Virginia kicking the bucket.  Maybe new ownership won't be as good, but the McCaskeys need to go.
 
2021-09-27 12:26:09 PM  

phimuskapsi: Does NE know how to develop qbs? Or was Brady just that talented and had an offense specifically crafted for him. Garappolo hasn't proven a whole lot in SF, and Cam is gone because he could hang.


Cam had nothing left in the tank; his shoulder was shot. It could just be that Garoppolo was able to flourish in New England's system, but is struggling elsewhere. That same system crafted for Brady also got Matt Cassel a big payday in KC, so it would seem that there's something about the system in NE that can get QBs to play above their skill level (when they're not injured).

/Brady was just a transcendent talent who was able to come in as a rookie and succeed, and have success wherever he started
 
2021-09-27 12:43:35 PM  

Mercutio879: Fizpez: Tim Couch


He'll be forever #1 on my list of 'players who should have had a chance somewhere else.' Was likely too shell shocked by the time he got out of Cleveland, though.


I may be biased, but he's #1 on my list of "Not as huge of a bust as people might think."  In fact, had a single decision by Butch Davis gone his way, he might have stayed Cleveland's QB for another 5-10 years...and Butch might have been there with him.
 
2021-09-27 12:49:40 PM  

iron_city_ap: Rapmaster2000: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.

Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.

Wait till the dramatic reading of her will, when they find out she left the entire franchise to her secret lover...

Jay Cutler


That would be awesome.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 12:54:35 PM  

Myk-House of El: As in the coaching may be a a more fundamental problem.


Well, the coaching staff is all new, so there's bound to be a learning curve there. Frankly, it's hard to tell much from the one game. Denver came into the game with a top-10 offense and defense, and they're playing at home with their famously advantageous home-field conditions. The head coach (Saleh, former DC of the 49'ers) is supposed to be a defensive whiz, and so far the defense has been... tolerable. Above expectations, I'd say. They've given up a lot of points, but a lot of that is due to the offense turning over the ball a lot and not being able to stay on the field. But he brought in the OC, and as the head coach, he's gotta be accountable for the performance of the whole team, so we'll see if he can make it work.
 
2021-09-27 1:04:45 PM  
Sacked nine times?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 1:24:23 PM  

Outshined_One: Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.

They hired Ernie Accorsi as a "consultant" in the 2014/2015 offseason, who told them to hire John Fox, who was an unmitigated offensive disaster and who arguably hindered Trubisky's development in his rookie season.

The owners are complete dimwits.  I'm hoping they get approval to purchase the Arlington Heights property soon so they can sell the team prior to Virginia kicking the bucket.  Maybe new ownership won't be as good, but the McCaskeys need to go.


Fox was hired as a pressure bandage for the sucking chest wound that was Trestman. Fox was supposed to put out fires, coach as the adult and what I swear he ended up doing was coaching every game from the standpoint of just keeping things close and don't get destroyed like Trestman did. The best thing Fox did was bring Fangio with him and Fangio fixed the historically bad defense.
Nagy was much of the prize that Pace wanted, that was supposed to be his big find.
Looking back now, I'm starting to wonder if Trestman was that much worse than Nagy.
 
2021-09-27 1:41:47 PM  

germ78: That same system crafted for Brady also got Matt Cassel a big payday in KC


Who was injured for 3 seasons, then traded to the Vikings, then the Bills, then Cowboys, then Titans and finally the Lions.

What success.
 
2021-09-27 1:42:54 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: Looking back now, I'm starting to wonder if Trestman was that much worse than Nagy.


Trestman and Emery apparently wrecked the administrative and coaching side of the team, from the coaching staff (remember Mel Tucker?) to scouting to player development to areas like nutrition and physical training.  Fox and Pace apparently brought in a professional team that helped bring the team back to some semblance of respectability, but I couldn't help shaking the feeling that Fox was playing out the string during his entire tenure and I still can't shake the feeling that Pace is deeply in over his head.

I get the feeling Nagy has a competent staff and the team has a decent support structure.  However, the problem Nagy clearly has is he's not a good offensive play caller and he's refused to adjust his system to his QB's strengths and weaknesses.
 
2021-09-27 1:43:57 PM  

Your_Huckleberry: Outshined_One: Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.

They hired Ernie Accorsi as a "consultant" in the 2014/2015 offseason, who told them to hire John Fox, who was an unmitigated offensive disaster and who arguably hindered Trubisky's development in his rookie season.

The owners are complete dimwits.  I'm hoping they get approval to purchase the Arlington Heights property soon so they can sell the team prior to Virginia kicking the bucket.  Maybe new ownership won't be as good, but the McCaskeys need to go.

Fox was hired as a pressure bandage for the sucking chest wound that was Trestman. Fox was supposed to put out fires, coach as the adult and what I swear he ended up doing was coaching every game from the standpoint of just keeping things close and don't get destroyed like Trestman did. The best thing Fox did was bring Fangio with him and Fangio fixed the historically bad defense.
Nagy was much of the prize that Pace wanted, that was supposed to be his big find.
Looking back now, I'm starting to wonder if Trestman was that much worse than Nagy.


When Trestman was coaching, people would argue that Cutler sucked because the Bears were losing.  Cutler may have sucked, but the Bears were giving up 27 points a game.  You're asking a lot of any QB when the team is giving up 27 points a game.
 
2021-09-27 2:00:56 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Your_Huckleberry: Outshined_One: Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.

They hired Ernie Accorsi as a "consultant" in the 2014/2015 offseason, who told them to hire John Fox, who was an unmitigated offensive disaster and who arguably hindered Trubisky's development in his rookie season.

The owners are complete dimwits.  I'm hoping they get approval to purchase the Arlington Heights property soon so they can sell the team prior to Virginia kicking the bucket.  Maybe new ownership won't be as good, but the McCaskeys need to go.

Fox was hired as a pressure bandage for the sucking chest wound that was Trestman. Fox was supposed to put out fires, coach as the adult and what I swear he ended up doing was coaching every game from the standpoint of just keeping things close and don't get destroyed like Trestman did. The best thing Fox did was bring Fangio with him and Fangio fixed the historically bad defense.
Nagy was much of the prize that Pace wanted, that was supposed to be his big find.
Looking back now, I'm starting to wonder if Trestman was that much worse than Nagy.

When Trestman was coaching, people would argue that Cutler sucked because the Bears were losing.  Cutler may have sucked, but the Bears were giving up 27 points a game.  You're asking a lot of any QB when the team is giving up 27 points a game.


Oh, no doubt. The defense is Trestman's second year was at abysmal. Give up 50 points going into the bye? Sure, let's also give up 50 points coming out of a bye. They were absolutely uncompetitive on defense. And the worst part, I thought, was a late season game against the Saints in  which: I don't think New Orleans ever punted and Jon Gruden spent much of the broadcast defending his buddy Treatman and blaming all the Bears problems on Cutler and Brandon Marshall.

And yes, Nagy's play calling is terrible. He supposed to be some incredibly creative offensive whiz, and he did have some slicks plays with nifty names early on, but he doesn't make adjustments and he doesn't seem to scheme to fit his players. His game plan yesterday was so,so bad because it was like he didn't even try to design something to help out a rookie QB.
 
2021-09-27 2:12:29 PM  

Outshined_One: Your_Huckleberry: Looking back now, I'm starting to wonder if Trestman was that much worse than Nagy.

Trestman and Emery apparently wrecked the administrative and coaching side of the team, from the coaching staff (remember Mel Tucker?) to scouting to player development to areas like nutrition and physical training.  Fox and Pace apparently brought in a professional team that helped bring the team back to some semblance of respectability, but I couldn't help shaking the feeling that Fox was playing out the string during his entire tenure and I still can't shake the feeling that Pace is deeply in over his head.

I get the feeling Nagy has a competent staff and the team has a decent support structure.  However, the problem Nagy clearly has is he's not a good offensive play caller and he's refused to adjust his system to his QB's strengths and weaknesses.


He really needs to give up play calling duties, or they need to make it not his decision anymore. It's readily apparent to anyone paying attention that he's not doing the team any favors or putting them in the best position to win each week. I'd go far to even say that for the safety of the players on the team, he needs to relinquish play calling duties until his eventual release this off-season.

Pace is way over his head, you're absolutely correct. Pissing away draft capital and overpaying for core players is a surefire way to run a team into the ground. But the question becomes, did Pace whiff on the picks, or did the coaching staff fail to develop them properly?
 
2021-09-27 2:14:29 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.

Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.


Not a Bears fan, but my observations on them is that they are a franchise that operates as if football were still played under 1920's rules. They've been lucky that they've been able to milk 1985 as much as they could (with the help of SNL), otherwise, they'd be the Browns of the NFC - a franchise with great past history and tradition that turned mediocre post merger.
 
2021-09-27 2:34:51 PM  

JAGChem82: Rapmaster2000: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.

Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.

Not a Bears fan, but my observations on them is that they are a franchise that operates as if football were still played under 1920's rules. They've been lucky that they've been able to milk 1985 as much as they could (with the help of SNL), otherwise, they'd be the Browns of the NFC - a franchise with great past history and tradition that turned mediocre post merger.


Definitely.  This was George Halas' after-work knock-around team with his buddies that became a billion+ dollar property.  The Bears haven't been innovative since George Halas ran the T-formation.
 
2021-09-27 2:40:44 PM  

JAGChem82: Rapmaster2000: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: You know, the person that chose Trubisky, Foles, Dalton, and Fields also chose Nagy to coach them.


\ THEY ALL SUCK, FROM PACE ON DOWN.

Drew Margary covered this in his "Why Your Team Sucks" from 2019 and it remains as my general criticism of the Bears:  At heart, they remain a rundown family business operated by a bunch of skinflints who find the actual staging of Bears football games to be a necessary irritant on their way to compiling flash money for weekend trips to Lake Geneva.

Everyone in this organization is waiting for Virginia to die so they can sell the team and spend football season at their houses in Naples or Marco Island or Sarasota.  The NFL is hoping to get this figured out too because the entire wealth of the McCaskey family is the Bears.  Virginia is the sole heir and there are 21 grandchildren below her and 26 great-grandchildren who all want a piece of this team.  It's going to make the Broncos situation look civil.

Not a Bears fan, but my observations on them is that they are a franchise that operates as if football were still played under 1920's rules. They've been lucky that they've been able to milk 1985 as much as they could (with the help of SNL), otherwise, they'd be the Browns of the NFC - a franchise with great past history and tradition that turned mediocre post merger.


They made it to the '07 Superb Owl as well as some smattering of post season action over the years. I wouldn't really consider that to be "Browns of the NFC".

They run the franchise like it's a family business, because that's what it is. This franchise is their income. It's all they have, unlike other franchise owners who have bought their franchises from money made elsewhere. They rely on their history and the fact that they're one of the largest football markets to keep the cash faucets flowing. I don't think they care about running a successful franchise, just one that's profitable.
 
2021-09-27 2:55:26 PM  

Outshined_One: Aezetyr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, to make it clear. Pace will not fire Nagy because he'll be fired the moment he does so. The correct answer now is to fire Pace, and then let the next GM fire Nagy. Pace got some coverage from John Fox being horrible because he was basically told to hire him. Nagy was his choice completely.

But this won't happen. The Bears ownership doesn't care about performance. They care about money, and they're making plenty of money.

That makes sense. It's still 1985 in Chicago.

They hired Ernie Accorsi as a "consultant" in the 2014/2015 offseason, who told them to hire John Fox, who was an unmitigated offensive disaster and who arguably hindered Trubisky's development in his rookie season.

The owners are complete dimwits.  I'm hoping they get approval to purchase the Arlington Heights property soon so they can sell the team prior to Virginia kicking the bucket.  Maybe new ownership won't be as good, but the McCaskeys need to go.


As a sidenote, can Mara sell the Giants and have the new owner blow up the entire organization, please?
 
2021-09-27 4:04:03 PM  

SolderGlob: Pace is way over his head, you're absolutely correct. Pissing away draft capital and overpaying for core players is a surefire way to run a team into the ground. But the question becomes, did Pace whiff on the picks, or did the coaching staff fail to develop them properly?


I'm conflicted on Pace.  On the one hand, I like that he's been aggressive in pursuing his guys through the draft and even in the open market (such as the Mack trade).  On the other hand, his aggressive strategy has hollowed out the depth on this team, he's handed out some absolutely awful contracts (Glennon, Quinn), and I'm not particularly thrilled with how everything with Nagy has been playing out.  Part of me wonders if he would have been better off becoming an assistant GM somewhere to get a better handle on how to run a team over the long term.  I also think he truly wasn't given the reins of the team until after Fox left, which probably didn't help Pace in his own growth and development.

I think he needs to get canned just to give the Bears a breath of fresh air, but I could see him heading up another team in a few years and succeeding at the job.
 
2021-09-27 4:33:15 PM  

phimuskapsi: germ78: That same system crafted for Brady also got Matt Cassel a big payday in KC

Who was injured for 3 seasons, then traded to the Vikings, then the Bills, then Cowboys, then Titans and finally the Lions.

What success.


I think that bolsters my point that QBs do better in the New England/Belichick system. Maybe I misspoke by saying that New England has a track record of "developing" QBs.
 
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