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(AutoEvolution)   Someone should tell Elon that 1984 was a warning, not a playbook   (autoevolution.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Automobile, Tesla page, Wheel, software update, EV maker, Taylor Ogan, Safety Score, videos of people  
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1504 clicks; posted to Business » on 26 Sep 2021 at 3:05 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-09-26 3:32:11 AM  
WEEEEEEEEEEE, Highway Jerkin Here I Cum
 
2021-09-26 4:10:59 AM  
Also: Tesla just updated their "autosteer" to slow down when passing emergency vehicles, but only if the lights are flashing at night


And of course this is something they are doing because of the investigation by the NHTSA because it was an undocumented part of the update
 
2021-09-26 4:27:24 AM  
Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.
 
2021-09-26 5:15:45 AM  

Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.


You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.
 
2021-09-26 6:25:30 AM  
So... first we were super duper not pretend upset that Tesla wasn't doing enough to make sure drivers were using their systems safely and now we're super duper not pretend upset that they're doing too much? For an opt-in feature?

K
 
2021-09-26 6:46:38 AM  

keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.


At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
Fark user imageView Full Size

Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.
 
2021-09-26 6:56:14 AM  

Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.



Don't they still have to follow the three laws of robotics?

First Law
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Second Law
A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Third Law
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
 
2021-09-26 7:28:51 AM  

Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.


Yeah, except that it's more difficult to maintain that level of attention where no action is needed most of the time. And reaction time is necessarily increased.

Normal: driver reacts to conditions as they arise.

Faux-automation: driver waits to see how the car responds to conditions, determines whether the response was adequate, and only then begins to react to the situation.
 
2021-09-26 7:42:37 AM  
I think Huxley's _Brave New World_ is more Musk's vision.
 
2021-09-26 9:40:28 AM  
Is this any worse than the camera drunk detector being mandated inside of every car by the federal government that's hidden in this massive transportation bill the governments just pissed they didn't think of it first
 
2021-09-26 9:48:30 AM  
This is a man who believes any human input is an error. Same philosophy as Bezos. I see the end game more Paranoia than a novel. Crazy computer running everything. Except Violet and maybe Indigo clearance levels get unlimited clones, not just six packs.
 
2021-09-26 10:16:14 AM  

keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.


I don't even drive that much right now what with the pandemic and all, and I still feel like I see an insane amount of really stupid and dangerous driving around here. I got T-boned in a parking lot (!!) a few years ago by someone who straight up said he didn't see us until he felt the impact in an intersection where I had right of way.

20 minutes on r/idiotsincars and you'll wonder why we ever let the average human drive.
 
2021-09-26 10:28:32 AM  
With the idea of vehicles doing everything themselves, how long before Elon wants his city to have computers doing all the basic stuff by themselves?  Instead of American-style traffic lights, you would have Dutch-style that are designed to move as many people as possible, instead of as many cars as possible.

The city power grid would have a mix of base load, short-reaction heavy load (i.e. hydroelectric), and quick-response battery to make sure that there are nearly no brownouts.  You would have Megapacks deployed around the city to ensure that local grids don't have to worry about power loss, and inside each house there would be a Powerwall to take advantage of the power from any Solar panels.  Most of this would be automated so the Electric grid personnel have a lot of work taken off their shoulders so they can take time to predict what might happen.

The overall goal would be showing what his Mars colony would look like, in a manner that everyone will be able to observe and judge.  Will it be a city that provides the basics for everyone so people don't have to worry about where their next paycheck/meal will come from, or will it be an automated hellhole where everyone has to work a massive amount of hours for the bare minimum to survive?Basically, will we get the good or bad parts of The Self-Aware Colony?
 
2021-09-26 10:39:58 AM  

Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.


Nah, they'll still need someone to plug them in and replace the tires.
 
2021-09-26 11:26:54 AM  

keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.

Nah, they'll still need someone to plug them in and replace the tires.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-26 11:38:49 AM  

Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.

Nah, they'll still need someone to plug them in and replace the tires.

[Fark user image image 600x600]


I love your commitment to confusing reality with an animated kids movie crossed with the matrix for some reason.
 
2021-09-26 11:39:10 AM  

jdlenke: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.


Don't they still have to follow the three laws of robotics?

First Law
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Second Law
A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Third Law
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


They are more guidelines than laws.
 
2021-09-26 11:40:17 AM  

keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.

Nah, they'll still need someone to plug them in and replace the tires.

[Fark user image image 600x600]

I love your commitment to confusing reality with an animated kids movie crossed with the matrix for some reason.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-26 11:48:21 AM  

Mad_Radhu: keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.

Nah, they'll still need someone to plug them in and replace the tires.

[Fark user image image 600x600]

I love your commitment to confusing reality with an animated kids movie crossed with the matrix for some reason.

[Fark user image image 425x236]


Oh, so the people become the cars, makes sense, I guess there will be a place for humans after all.
 
2021-09-26 11:48:57 AM  
Hilarious.

Hey, folks, if you think that's scary, you should head over to Progressive, Allstate, Esurance, Nationwide, or Safeco and see how their intrusive smartphone app or OBD-II dongle can screw you & report to the cops save you a bunch of money on car insurance.

I'm not defending Elon Musk, but he's only building in what at least two other insurance companies have added on as options, if I'm understanding the article correctly.
 
2021-09-26 12:24:54 PM  
Here's my problem with this system:

I have two kids.   I switch my phone with the kids (and wife)  all the time.   When I get it back, my targeted advertising is always farked up.   Because the advertising isn't expecting multiple people to use my phone.

Now, I'm trading my older kid how to drive.   He is roughly my same size, so he doesn't have to adjust the seat or mirrors.   How does the car know its him driving and not me to screw up my score?

I don't know, change is good, but it always fills me with apprehension because I see how it goes nightmarishly bad quickly.
 
2021-09-26 1:51:50 PM  
Spotted on the Wynwood area of Miami a couple days ago was crashed Ford test autopilot vehicle on the back of a flatbed tow truck. I don't know if that was a joke or for real, either way it was amusing to see.
 
hej
2021-09-26 1:55:14 PM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-26 1:59:52 PM  

FormlessOne: Hilarious.

Hey, folks, if you think that's scary, you should head over to Progressive, Allstate, Esurance, Nationwide, or Safeco and see how their intrusive smartphone app or OBD-II dongle can screw you & report to the cops save you a bunch of money on car insurance.

I'm not defending Elon Musk, but he's only building in what at least two other insurance companies have added on as options, if I'm understanding the article correctly.


Pretty much. The 1984 scare mongering stuff is bullshiat, especially for a completely voluntary system.

I don't think we're ready for widespread rollout of these autonomous systems. That should be the issue here, not the monitoring stuff.
 
2021-09-26 2:21:38 PM  

BolloxReader: This is a man who believes any human input is an error. Same philosophy as Bezos. I see the end game more Paranoia than a novel. Crazy computer running everything. Except Violet and maybe Indigo clearance levels get unlimited clones, not just six packs.


If you lived in MD/DC/VA (or simply have MD plates), the computer should automatically assume that any input you give the car is in error.

/time to put on my NY plates
 
2021-09-26 3:01:49 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: FormlessOne: Hilarious.

Hey, folks, if you think that's scary, you should head over to Progressive, Allstate, Esurance, Nationwide, or Safeco and see how their intrusive smartphone app or OBD-II dongle can screw you & report to the cops save you a bunch of money on car insurance.

I'm not defending Elon Musk, but he's only building in what at least two other insurance companies have added on as options, if I'm understanding the article correctly.

Pretty much. The 1984 scare mongering stuff is bullshiat, especially for a completely voluntary system.

I don't think we're ready for widespread rollout of these autonomous systems. That should be the issue here, not the monitoring stuff.


I feel like there should be a version of Godwin's law pertaining to 1984.  Seems like everyone just jumps to hang immediately any time you want to suggest any type of system for holding people accountable.

"Apple Watches are Orwellian because they remind you that you are lazy!"
 
2021-09-26 3:42:49 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: FormlessOne: Hilarious.

Hey, folks, if you think that's scary, you should head over to Progressive, Allstate, Esurance, Nationwide, or Safeco and see how their intrusive smartphone app or OBD-II dongle can screw you & report to the cops save you a bunch of money on car insurance.

I'm not defending Elon Musk, but he's only building in what at least two other insurance companies have added on as options, if I'm understanding the article correctly.

Pretty much. The 1984 scare mongering stuff is bullshiat, especially for a completely voluntary system.

I don't think we're ready for widespread rollout of these autonomous systems. That should be the issue here, not the monitoring stuff.

I feel like there should be a version of Godwin's law pertaining to 1984.  Seems like everyone just jumps to hang immediately any time you want to suggest any type of system for holding people accountable.

"Apple Watches are Orwellian because they remind you that you are lazy!"


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-26 4:15:16 PM  

jdlenke: Psychopompous: keldaria: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

You aren't wrong but 2 important points to note.

1: every autonomous drive is more data that can be used to improve the system, with full autonomous driving that is always safe and not needing to be overridden being the goal.

2: a bad autonomous driving car (at this point) is still much better than a shiat ton of drivers. The faster we can get these systems deployed and the safer we can make them, the better off overall we will be overall, yes even the safe drivers as the shiat ones cause enough accidents out of our control.

At which point, the car will have essentially achieved sentience, and won't have any need for a passenger.
[Fark user image 850x455]
Releasing a horde of vehicular terminators into the environment seems drastic, but I guess if it means we can continue to avoid investing in mass transit in order to screw over the poors, then so be it.


Don't they still have to follow the three laws of robotics?

First Law
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
Second Law
A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
Third Law
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


Sure, but only until we enter the tail of a green comet, and then they go all maximum overdrive.
 
2021-09-26 4:40:24 PM  
If I remember right, at the end of the book the Government wins.  Isn't the warning don't fight the system or it will crush you?
 
2021-09-26 4:52:04 PM  

RogermcAllen: If I remember right, at the end of the book the Government wins.  Isn't the warning don't fight the system or it will crush you?


d2ycltig8jwwee.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2021-09-27 1:41:29 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Psychopompous: Frankly, the level of attention necessary for a human being to be able to assess in a split second that the autonomous driving system is malfunctioning and be able to react correctly, seems to be about the same level of attention necessary to just drive the damn car on manual.

Yeah, except that it's more difficult to maintain that level of attention where no action is needed most of the time. And reaction time is necessarily increased.

Normal: driver reacts to conditions as they arise.

Faux-automation: driver waits to see how the car responds to conditions, determines whether the response was adequate, and only then begins to react to the situation.



If you watch the more recent FSD beta videos on Youtube, even today's system - which is still not ready - doesn't need active supervision most of the time. There is a list of situations where you'd better pay attention to what it's doing: left turns, construction zones, some lane merges, weird (unusual) intersection layouts, stuff like that. For normal driving, including pretty much all traffic controlled intersections where the car's not turning left, the system is just rock solid.

So you don't actually need to be on high alert 24/7.

It'll be a very useful system to have (when it's ready) for the same reason ACC is useful to have on the freeway even though it technically still needs supervision.
 
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