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(AP News)   Hackers don't want to work for people who disparage them as cybercriminals   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Federal government of the United States, Computer security, U.S. state, Government, State governments of the United States, Information security, home state of Michigan, Security  
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2616 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Sep 2021 at 8:05 PM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-25 8:15:02 PM  
More like they enjoy making six figures a year and their asses wiped with diamonds in luxurious high security office buildings than five figure incomes with out dated hardware in a soul sucking cubicle farm located in a dungeon of a basement out of a sense of patriotism.

And the REALLY talented math degree guys are laughing at the cyber security nerds from their corporate jet flights chartering them around the country working on algorithms that create fractions of a cent of wealth.
 
2021-09-25 8:15:24 PM  
The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.
 
2021-09-25 8:15:55 PM  
Don't worry kid. ACAB.
 
2021-09-25 8:18:39 PM  

misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.


Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.
 
2021-09-25 8:18:54 PM  
sjgames.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-25 8:20:59 PM  

rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.


Unpaid internship is a form of class discrimination, as working class people often cannot afford to take them and then miss out on building social capital
 
2021-09-25 8:21:54 PM  
What people tend to actually want when they advertise for tech people is someone to fix the printer, un-Fk the Excel spreadsheets and find stuff on the shared drive.
 
2021-09-25 8:22:08 PM  

rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.


No, by definition it isn't slavery if it is voluntary.  Unpaid internships are just a great mechanism to screen out poors and minorities without running afoul of hiring laws.
 
2021-09-25 8:24:30 PM  
Unpaid internships are by and large illegal. It's a shame no one's doing anything about enforcing that.
 
2021-09-25 8:27:46 PM  
A big problem the government has is they require background checks / drug tests. Which for a job field that has origins from criminal activity, mostly of young people who now have access to legal pot, really doesn't get them the best and brightest.
 
2021-09-25 8:30:04 PM  

misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.


That's nothing. If you're going to do pen testing and you don't want to end up in jail, you need an iron-clad contract and a lawyer.

/ I may or may not posses a flash drive that is about 10 felonies to plug in without permission

// at least it was 10 felonies when I may or may not have made it, it's probably more now

/// there are some extremely spicy Linux distros out there.
 
2021-09-25 8:30:55 PM  
That's why all the good ones go work for Russia. Same as the paid internet trolls.
 
2021-09-25 8:34:29 PM  

iheartscotch: If you're going to do pen testing


No no, we already had an AOC thread about this.
 
2021-09-25 8:36:58 PM  

austerity101: iheartscotch: If you're going to do pen testing

No no, we already had an AOC thread about this.


I thought that the conclusion that was reached was that she was not going to go on a date with any of us...
 
2021-09-25 8:38:01 PM  

rolladuck: Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.


That's oxymoronic.
 
2021-09-25 8:43:52 PM  

rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.


I'd question how many are voluntary if these interns are working as part of a plea deal to avoid jail for *ahem* network exploration.
 
2021-09-25 8:46:48 PM  
Only feds get the red teams.  Usually from sketchy plea agreements.
 
2021-09-25 8:47:23 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-25 8:49:41 PM  
Hackers don't want to work for people who disparage them as cybercriminals and won't pay them.

I possess one of the most valuable skillsets of the information age and you want to give me an unpaid internship?  Enjoy your constant ransomware attacks.
 
2021-09-25 8:50:34 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: More like they enjoy making six figures a year and their asses wiped with diamonds in luxurious high security office buildings than five figure incomes with out dated hardware in a soul sucking cubicle farm located in a dungeon of a basement out of a sense of patriotism.

And the REALLY talented math degree guys are laughing at the cyber security nerds from their corporate jet flights chartering them around the country working on algorithms that create fractions of a cent of wealth.


Remind me how often massive companies have data breaches?
 
2021-09-25 8:53:29 PM  
thumbs.gfycat.comView Full Size


Better pay?
These cheap bastards don't even get each hacker their own keyboard.
 
2021-09-25 8:55:10 PM  

Snapper Carr: Hackers don't want to work for people who disparage them as cybercriminals and won't pay them.

I possess one of the most valuable skillsets of the information age and you want to give me an unpaid internship?  Enjoy your constant ransomware attacks.


For most US businesses a pen test is a waste, simply because their security posture is so poor they need an overall and to listen to their IT staff before spending on a pen test.
 
2021-09-25 8:58:33 PM  
Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?
 
2021-09-25 9:01:01 PM  

Dr. Bison: [sjgames.com image 450x581]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-25 9:06:18 PM  

DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?


ADHD is actually a plus if you can become obsessed with networking and network security.

What I would suggest is finding courses in networking, Linux and Linux administration and see how you do. There used to be a very good program at Kansas State, no idea if it still exists.
 
2021-09-25 9:07:16 PM  

drdank: rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.

I'd question how many are voluntary if these interns are working as part of a plea deal to avoid jail for *ahem* network exploration.


So community service is slavery?
 
2021-09-25 9:07:37 PM  

DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?


Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.
 
2021-09-25 9:08:52 PM  

iheartscotch: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

ADHD is actually a plus if you can become obsessed with networking and network security.

What I would suggest is finding courses in networking, Linux and Linux administration and see how you do. There used to be a very good program at Kansas State, no idea if it still exists.


University of Louisville (out of Kentucky) has a program in beta for former/current military.
 
2021-09-25 9:10:27 PM  

fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.


Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?
 
2021-09-25 9:10:46 PM  

DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?


They're hiring anyone who can press a power button.  Do some certs - Network+, Security+, CCNA, etc. - and then apply for entry level jobs.  They'll hire you.  Don't expect a 6 figure salary to start and you'll be able to get in the door.  There is negative unemployment in IT.
 
2021-09-25 9:14:22 PM  
Where I work, the interns are paid, and paid quite well... But management is hell and they've farked up the department to the point where people are leaving in groups. The only way to advance is for someone to retire or die, and all the wrong people are getting promoted

Or you can work in the private sector at 2-3 times what you'd be making as a .gov employee, all the vendor perks and schwag you can tolerate, glorious benefits, etc...

Government employment is killing itself.
 
2021-09-25 9:15:22 PM  
For years now companies and governmental agencies have gone as cheap as they can in terms of security. They are all due as many breeches and scams as the underworld 'net denizens can muster. They just don't seem to understand that things are "going great" because the security team is doing their job(s) well. That is not a sign to relax security posture and as a holder of a professional security degree I take GREAT delight in hearing about every single last exploit that gets successfully run. Oh well... coding makes for a much more rewarding career IMO.

Do your thing gang... these idiots are BEGGING for it!
 
2021-09-25 9:16:44 PM  

DanInKansas: fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.

Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?


Network plus, Security plus, Cisco Certified Network Administrator, and Certified Ethical Hacker.

The first two are offered by CompTIA, Cisco controls CCNA, and EC-Council does CEH.

I should have spelled it out first time, apologies.

Also do some volunteer work with a group like CyberPatriot, they train their instructors and it is a good way to network and meet people.

And heck if you decide not go go into the field it still helps the kids learn better cyber security skills.
 
2021-09-25 9:17:03 PM  
It's kind of like the service industry. "But I don't WANT to pay them more, just find a way to keep them from going to better paying jobs or collecting the insurance they paid into."
 
2021-09-25 9:17:06 PM  
I mean... yeah, demanding that people sign on as literally slave labor is not what I'd call a high-quality recruiting pitch.

I'm sorry, worse than slave labor.  Literal slaves at least get room and board.
 
2021-09-25 9:17:57 PM  

atibus: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

They're hiring anyone who can press a power button.  Do some certs - Network+, Security+, CCNA, etc. - and then apply for entry level jobs.  They'll hire you.  Don't expect a 6 figure salary to start and you'll be able to get in the door.  There is negative unemployment in IT.


It's been years since I've been in that job market, but I recall a common refrain on Slashdot that unless you had a security clearance for government/defense work, there were few jobs to be had in programming/IT/engineering when faced with cheap competition from overseas. What has changed?
 
2021-09-25 9:18:46 PM  

DanInKansas: fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.

Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?


Certifications. They're really good to have, but I recommend that you have a little background education too or you'll be the permanent server monkey and Exel spreadsheet un-fker
 
2021-09-25 9:21:00 PM  

drdank: atibus: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

They're hiring anyone who can press a power button.  Do some certs - Network+, Security+, CCNA, etc. - and then apply for entry level jobs.  They'll hire you.  Don't expect a 6 figure salary to start and you'll be able to get in the door.  There is negative unemployment in IT.

It's been years since I've been in that job market, but I recall a common refrain on Slashdot that unless you had a security clearance for government/defense work, there were few jobs to be had in programming/IT/engineering when faced with cheap competition from overseas. What has changed?


Corporate America has grown and recognized that IT is not inherent security so yes to some extent. There are companies doing cyber security specifically and they do not all need a government clearance.

For example Security Onion Solutions is an excellent company, and they do not require a clearance. I am friends with several of their personnel and think highly of them.
 
2021-09-25 9:22:36 PM  

iheartscotch: DanInKansas: fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.

Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?

Certifications. They're really good to have, but I recommend that you have a little background education too or you'll be the permanent server monkey and Exel spreadsheet un-fker


This is a key point!

Getting the certifications and some education is good but you have to be continuously learning in this field or you are going to be regulated to tier 1 for the rest of your life.

The good news is no one knows everything and you can always find your own niche to build in.
 
2021-09-25 9:27:22 PM  
So what I am not hearing so far is that my age is going to torpedo me.
 
2021-09-25 9:31:25 PM  

Ashelth: Night Train to Wakanda: More like they enjoy making six figures a year and their asses wiped with diamonds in luxurious high security office buildings than five figure incomes with out dated hardware in a soul sucking cubicle farm located in a dungeon of a basement out of a sense of patriotism.

And the REALLY talented math degree guys are laughing at the cyber security nerds from their corporate jet flights chartering them around the country working on algorithms that create fractions of a cent of wealth.

Remind me how often massive companies have data breaches?


About as often as federal government breaches.
 
2021-09-25 9:31:35 PM  

DanInKansas: So what I am not hearing so far is that my age is going to torpedo me.


Yeah you get hired and if you let them most companies will work you into and back out of your grave.

We are at such a shortage that sucking in this field is not enough to get you fired.
 
2021-09-25 9:31:47 PM  

qorkfiend: drdank: rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.

I'd question how many are voluntary if these interns are working as part of a plea deal to avoid jail for *ahem* network exploration.

So community service is slavery?


Not if you're a convict
 
2021-09-25 9:33:09 PM  

scanman61: qorkfiend: drdank: rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.

I'd question how many are voluntary if these interns are working as part of a plea deal to avoid jail for *ahem* network exploration.

So community service is slavery?

Not if you're a convict


Which is what someone working as part of a plea deal to avoid jail would be...
 
2021-09-25 9:40:23 PM  
I feel a bit sorry for the guy whose picture they've used. He looks like he's... never been to a bachelor party, let's say.
 
2021-09-25 9:40:45 PM  

fortheloveof: DanInKansas: fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.

Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?

Network plus, Security plus, Cisco Certified Network Administrator, and Certified Ethical Hacker.

The first two are offered by CompTIA, Cisco controls CCNA, and EC-Council does CEH.

I should have spelled it out first time, apologies.

Also do some volunteer work with a group like CyberPatriot, they train their instructors and it is a good way to network and meet people.

And heck if you decide not go go into the field it still helps the kids learn better cyber security skills.


Sounds like he should probably start with "Common Computer Terms for Idiots" JFC.
 
2021-09-25 9:46:28 PM  

misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.


rolladuck: misanthropicsob: The only way in to be an investigator for the MI State Police is an unpaid internship? Hahahahahaha. Oh wow.

Unpaid internships are voluntary slavery.
Change my mind.


Unpaid internships are by definition designed to teach the intern, kind of a master/apprentice thing.  The article is way short on details, but if the MSP is doing unpaid internships without a qualified cybersecurity expert doing the training, then that's insanely farked up.  And if they are doing it with a cybersecurity expert there, that means they hired one, they can hire more.

ACAB, indeed.
 
2021-09-25 9:47:19 PM  

DanInKansas: So what I am not hearing so far is that my age is going to torpedo me.


Not necessarily. Age is just a number and time is subjective. Anyone can learn how to network. Some of the best I know were part-timers working on a second career.

It's kind of like learning a constantly evolving second language that's heavily based on math, numbers, acronyms and left-overs from computing's past

For example: did you know that there are rules, forms and formulas behind file naming?
 
2021-09-25 9:57:03 PM  

rethian: Dr. Bison: [sjgames.com image 450x581]

[Fark user image 850x850]


d1vzi28wh99zvq.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2021-09-25 9:59:01 PM  

DanInKansas: fortheloveof: DanInKansas: Okay folks... Real and sincere question for any security professionals here.

I am 55 and several different body parts are starting to fail under the stress of appliance repair.

I am really interested in network security but a) have no idea where to start and b) am worried my age will make me unhireable after some schooling.

I have mild ADHD and can get bored but can also end up hyper focused and lose track of time.

Thoughts?

Sec+, Linux+ are quick and easy to get, through on Net+ or CCNA and you have a good entry spot.

If you have the funds I suggest CEH simply because HR tends to love it.

Full disclosure I have instructed EC-Council courses.

Thank you so much for the nice reply, but what is Net+, Sec+, CCNA, or CEH?


Network Plus: https://www.comptia.org/certifications/network
Security Plus: https://www.comptia.org/certifications/security
Cisco Certified Network Administration: https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/training-events/training-certifications/certifications/associate/ccna.html
Certified Ethical Hacker: https://www.eccouncil.org/programs/certified-ethical-hacker-ceh/

Note that depending on where you live and you local job market, certifications may be nice but not necessarily a requirement. There are plenty of employers who consider self-taught people with an actual interestin the field just as hirable as those with a stack of certs but no real-world experience.
 
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