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(Some Guy)   A neuroscientist came up with 10 proofs of the existence of god. Aside from the fact that none are actually proofs, it does shed light on the mind of a kook   (mindmatters.ai) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Theology, God, Existence of God, Atheism, Existence, Philosophy of religion, Christian neurosurgeon Michael Egnor, Causality  
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4061 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2021 at 10:47 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-23 6:00:37 PM  
The ten proofs of God that he presents as his opening argument below are not drawn from sacred texts but from philosophical reasoning:

Show me some farking evidence!
 
2021-09-23 6:08:29 PM  
Proofs are for mathematics. Demonstrations are what's needed for understanding how reality works.

/you can't argue something into existence
 
2021-09-23 6:34:41 PM  
Right off the bat the argument goes right off the rails.

Something had to create stuff. Okay, what created the creator?

That's one.

Any argument that morals are handed down from the divine is bs.

Morals are a human creation and vary significantly from culture to culture.
 
2021-09-23 6:46:32 PM  
This is some freshman level philosophy shiat.
 
2021-09-23 6:49:25 PM  
All of these "proofs" make the mistake of assuming that any argument for some metaphysics behind our observations must be proof of the God of the Christian Bible.
 
2021-09-23 7:06:23 PM  
Why did he become a neurosurgeon instead of just praying for brain problems to be healed?  He's thwarting God's plan!
 
2021-09-23 7:10:27 PM  
Electrons go around protons. They don't just shoot off into space for no reason.

Electrons do not go around protons.  They are standing quantum wave forms.  And beta particles would disagree with you on the second part, "no reason" assuming that you don't understand the weak nuclear force. Hell, I don't.
 
2021-09-23 7:14:18 PM  

syrynxx: Why did he become a neurosurgeon instead of just praying for brain problems to be healed?  He's thwarting God's plan!


Your just trying to bring converts to your own temple.
 
2021-09-23 7:47:06 PM  

syrynxx: Electrons go around protons. They don't just shoot off into space for no reason.

Electrons do not go around protons.  They are standing quantum wave forms.  And beta particles would disagree with you on the second part, "no reason" assuming that you don't understand the weak nuclear force. Hell, I don't.


His "reasoning" immediately made me think of this:

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 9:13:16 PM  

revrendjim: All of these "proofs" make the mistake of assuming that any argument for some metaphysics behind our observations must be proof of the God of the Christian Bible.


So, classic Aquinas.

I asked the prof in a Philosophy 101 course why Azathoth couldn't fulfil all the requirements for Aquinas.  He was tickled pink - the rest of the class was sitting there going "Aza-who?"
 
2021-09-23 9:17:20 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 9:19:01 PM  

phalamir: I asked the prof in a Philosophy 101 course why Azathoth couldn't fulfil all the requirements for Aquinas.  He was tickled pink - the rest of the class was sitting there going "Aza-who?"


I admire your jib, and would like a cut of your newsletter.
 
2021-09-23 10:15:48 PM  
"The world is full of mysterious things that I don't understand therefore my God was responsible for them"
 
2021-09-23 10:52:46 PM  

aleister_greynight: The ten proofs of God that he presents as his opening argument below are not drawn from sacred texts but from philosophical reasoning:

Show me some farking evidence!


Here's a good case for the NON-existence of God: as far as I am aware, not a single one of the prosperity gospel mega church conmen has been hit with a lightning bolt while in the middle of scamming his flock yet.
 
2021-09-23 10:53:49 PM  
".....change exists in nature.  "

somewhere in heaven, Darwin is grinning.
 
2021-09-23 10:53:49 PM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 10:54:20 PM  
Degree from Oral Roberts U.
 
2021-09-23 10:54:23 PM  

mjjt: "The world is full of mysterious things that I don't understand therefore my God was responsible for them"


"The natural world is beautiful and mysterious therefore the text of the bible is true." The part of their brain responsible for logic and reason is simply absent.
 
2021-09-23 10:54:27 PM  
I always knew Shiva was real!
 
2021-09-23 10:56:58 PM  

hobnail: This is some freshman level philosophy shiat.


High school freshman and a joint and it's still obvious crap.
 
2021-09-23 10:57:14 PM  

mjjt: "The world is full of mysterious things that I don't understand therefore my God was responsible for them"


I've known many very fine people who are serious about their Christianity, and that's pretty much the beginning and end of their view on the natural world and beyond. Zero intellectual curiosity.
 
2021-09-23 10:57:47 PM  
Next: Atheist Dillahunty spots fallacies in Christian Egnor's arguments


Well, there's a shocker.
 
2021-09-23 10:59:42 PM  
"And that's not just an opinion. It's not as if, "Well, I don't think it's okay to kill innocent people, but hey, if the guy next to me thinks it's okay, well, who knows?" We all acknowledge that certain things are right and wrong in objective ways that are beyond human opinion."

I'm no longer sure this is true.
 
2021-09-23 11:00:52 PM  
If a belief/ proof of your G-d gets you through the day, fine. I enjoy listening to the literacy and how it applies to living a peaceful life in modern times. But that is me as a now early 50s widower looking for comfort who always enjoyed allegory stories, similar to those of the Greeks, Romans and other older civilizations. I try my best to keep my views and values to myself.

What I don't tolerate are "children" who insist I need to follow their organized religious beliefs. Anybody with an ounce of free will knows religion is all theoretical views of how to generally live (don't convent thy neighbors goods, don't kill in cold blood, rape is bad etc) from an ancient time where those "mandates" were necessary for civilization.
 
2021-09-23 11:01:37 PM  
I believe in Lord Kimbote.
 
2021-09-23 11:02:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


God is trans.
 
2021-09-23 11:02:36 PM  
Why are there so many "neuroscientists" who sound like they're full of shiat? Is it a new refuge for psychology majors?
 
2021-09-23 11:03:07 PM  
Rocks, when we drop them, fall down. They don't fall up. [...] A rock doesn't know it's supposed to go down when you let it go instead of going up. And the fact that inanimate things don't know what to do but do it anyway implies that there is a mind guiding things. This is kind of an intelligent design argument

Wait, is he promoting "Intelligent Falling", a parody of Creationism Intelligent Design as a serious proof of the existence of god?
 
2021-09-23 11:05:14 PM  

aleister_greynight: The ten proofs of God that he presents as his opening argument below are not drawn from sacred texts but from philosophical reasoning:

Show me some farking evidence!


The guy makes a decent inference/ logical argument for the existence of a Creator (god, etc). However, he way over thinks it by referring to Aristotle's stick and other crap.

A more succinct argument is in the form of a question. What caused the Big Bang? See? All of this guy's navel gazing can be summarized in a five word question.

I have no opinion on the subject other than Pascal's Wager, but I always find it funny when people use hundreds of words when a single sentence will do.
 
2021-09-23 11:06:30 PM  
TLDR: (he didn't even come up with his own 10, the first 5 are from Thomas Aquinas)

1. Changes in nature

2. Causation, nothing can cause itself

3. One thing must exist

4. Things be perfect, which seems to contradict the first thing

5. Patterns and shiz

6. You can make up shiz

7. There must be a cause because we are the effect.

8. Math

9. There must be a reason

10. Morality. Which I think is especially lazy.

I could spend time in specific rebuttals but...all the reasons seem to hinge on a method to the madness. The master argument is: all of this is a pretty big assumption.
 
2021-09-23 11:07:01 PM  
Just a reminder that Ben Carson is a neurosurgeon too.
 
2021-09-23 11:07:49 PM  

SurfaceTension: Proofs are for mathematics. Demonstrations are what's needed for understanding how reality works.

/you can't argue something into existence


OMG thank you.

It drove me crazy when he started talking about "natural theology" and "evidence from nature" then said he had proofs.
 
2021-09-23 11:09:26 PM  
So it essentially boils down to "things exist exactly the way they exist, therefore... god."

media4.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 11:10:55 PM  
baron von doodle:A more succinct argument is in the form of a question. What caused the Big Bang? See? All of this guy's navel gazing can be summarized in a five word question.

If it was caused by anything, what caused that?  It's turtles all the way down.
 
2021-09-23 11:10:58 PM  
seems to me if any of these were really proof, he wouldn't need 10 of them.
 
2021-09-23 11:12:59 PM  

Target Builder: Rocks, when we drop them, fall down. They don't fall up. [...] A rock doesn't know it's supposed to go down when you let it go instead of going up. And the fact that inanimate things don't know what to do but do it anyway implies that there is a mind guiding things. This is kind of an intelligent design argument

Wait, is he promoting "Intelligent Falling", a parody of Creationism Intelligent Design as a serious proof of the existence of god?


Just imaging how incredible SMART magnets must be!
 
2021-09-23 11:13:57 PM  

DecemberNitro: So it essentially boils down to "things exist exactly the way they exist, therefore... god."


We literally have a sample size of "1".

It's the ultimate survivor bias.
 
2021-09-23 11:14:10 PM  

SurfaceTension: Proofs are for mathematics. Demonstrations are what's needed for understanding how reality works.

/you can't argue something into existence


I can argue a flame war into existence, ya buttface.
 
2021-09-23 11:14:15 PM  
And the fact that inanimate things don't know what to do but do it anyway implies that there is a mind guiding things.

A mind-numbingly stupid assumption that creates a ridiculous implication is now proof. Got it.
 
2021-09-23 11:18:31 PM  

baron von doodle: aleister_greynight: The ten proofs of God that he presents as his opening argument below are not drawn from sacred texts but from philosophical reasoning:

Show me some farking evidence!

The guy makes a decent inference/ logical argument for the existence of a Creator (god, etc). However, he way over thinks it by referring to Aristotle's stick and other crap.

A more succinct argument is in the form of a question. What caused the Big Bang? See? All of this guy's navel gazing can be summarized in a five word question.

I have no opinion on the subject other than Pascal's Wager, but I always find it funny when people use hundreds of words when a single sentence will do.


His entire argument is dependent upon lazy logic. Because things seem stable, they must be perfect and have been designed to be perfect by an intelligence....it is lazy logic.

/ I will say that his best argument, as you rightly suggested, would be the Big Bang.
 
2021-09-23 11:19:44 PM  
RVG - Christian Neurosurgeon (Official Video)
Youtube 59YtUCZMgSM
 
2021-09-23 11:21:07 PM  
"For example, I might not exist. I might die, or I might never have been born. Everything can't be contingent, everything can't depend on everything else, because then you get circular reasoning. So there must be a necessary existence for anything contingent to exist."

*deep bong hit*

"Dude... *coughs* ...you ever hear of the Butterfly Effect? What if, like... I wasn't here right now? Would we know each other? Would there even BE a right now if I wasn't born? *coughs* Y'ever, y'know... think about that?"
 
2021-09-23 11:23:07 PM  

phalamir: revrendjim: All of these "proofs" make the mistake of assuming that any argument for some metaphysics behind our observations must be proof of the God of the Christian Bible.

So, classic Aquinas.

I asked the prof in a Philosophy 101 course why Azathoth couldn't fulfil all the requirements for Aquinas.  He was tickled pink - the rest of the class was sitting there going "Aza-who?"


Better, since the universe better reflects the morality of a blind, mindless nuclear chaos than any anthropomorhpic gods.
 
2021-09-23 11:23:39 PM  
So which farker in this thread is Noah Lugeons?
 
2021-09-23 11:27:02 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 11:27:44 PM  

iheartscotch: ut I always find it funny when people use hundreds of words when a single sentence will do.

His entire argument is dependent upon lazy logic. Because things seem stable, they must be perfect and have been designed to be perfect by an intelligence....it is lazy logic.

/ I will say that his best argument, as you rightly suggested, would be the Big Bang.


That's not a very good argument to hang your worldview on since Stephen Hawking, who knew more about cosmology and the Big Bang than pretty much anyone did a very succinct take-no-prisoners demolition of the idea that a deity or cause was needed for or is even compatible with the Big Bang in his final book.
 
2021-09-23 11:31:45 PM  

revrendjim: All of these "proofs" make the mistake of assuming that any argument for some metaphysics behind our observations must be proof of the God of the Christian Bible.


All I could think is that this is his basic argument:

Fark user imageView Full Size


... therefore, God.

He tries to define God as "whatever causal thing we can't explain," which is so insultingly lazy that I want to bop him on the nose with a newspaper.
 
2021-09-23 11:32:27 PM  

weddingsinger: syrynxx: Electrons go around protons. They don't just shoot off into space for no reason.

Electrons do not go around protons.  They are standing quantum wave forms.  And beta particles would disagree with you on the second part, "no reason" assuming that you don't understand the weak nuclear force. Hell, I don't.

His "reasoning" immediately made me think of this:

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 237x213]


Goddamnit I missed this Weeners time through! But I feel reassured that someone else came to the same conclusion I did.
 
2021-09-23 11:36:30 PM  

revrendjim: All of these "proofs" make the mistake of assuming that any argument for some metaphysics behind our observations must be proof of the God of the Christian Bible.


Well, any hint of political virtue is proof of Soviet-style communism. It's how these people's minds work.
 
2021-09-23 11:37:16 PM  

baron von doodle: aleister_greynight: The ten proofs of God that he presents as his opening argument below are not drawn from sacred texts but from philosophical reasoning:

Show me some farking evidence!

The guy makes a decent inference/ logical argument for the existence of a Creator (god, etc). However, he way over thinks it by referring to Aristotle's stick and other crap.

A more succinct argument is in the form of a question. What caused the Big Bang? See? All of this guy's navel gazing can be summarized in a five word question.

I have no opinion on the subject other than Pascal's Wager, but I always find it funny when people use hundreds of words when a single sentence will do.


Pascal's wager is a fun example from the beginnings of formal probability theory, when they were trying the boundaries of what it could do.  It's a pretty terrible way to make choices about your religious and spiritual life.
 
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