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(CNN)   Apple: No, we're still not letting Fortnite back in our app store. Not until they apologize for calling us out on our heavy-handed monopolistic tactics and agree to give us all the money   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Followup, App Store, IPhone, Video game console, Microsoft, Apple Inc., Epic's developer program account, video game maker, Apple's rules  
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496 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 23 Sep 2021 at 12:10 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-23 11:31:33 AM  
In other news, Apple won on all but one count and Epic can pound sand.
 
2021-09-23 12:12:54 PM  
I can't wait until fortnite is gone.
 
2021-09-23 12:19:13 PM  
Hey, Apple just wants to wet their beaks a little...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 12:31:56 PM  
How dare they try to control access to a marketplace they built, maintain, run, and are liable for!
 
2021-09-23 12:39:33 PM  
Why would you want to play Fortnite on your phone? How, even?
 
2021-09-23 12:40:08 PM  

b2theory: In other news, Apple won on all but one count and Epic can pound sand.


Yea, I don't understand Subby's point here, unless they happen to be Tim Sweeney. The judge even specifically said that Apple had every right to continue keeping Epic from its App Store, so I don't know why there was any expectation that things would change overnight.
 
2021-09-23 12:43:11 PM  

Joe_diGriz: b2theory: In other news, Apple won on all but one count and Epic can pound sand.

Yea, I don't understand Subby's point here, unless they happen to be Tim Sweeney. The judge even specifically said that Apple had every right to continue keeping Epic from its App Store, so I don't know why there was any expectation that things would change overnight.


Well, Subby is certainly acting as dumb as Sweeney.
 
2021-09-23 12:48:25 PM  
Classic case of fark around, find out.

Tim Sweeney is finding out.
 
2021-09-23 12:52:30 PM  
Me laughing in Android!
 
2021-09-23 1:19:03 PM  
I always wondered what the Windows fanboys of the 90s were up to these days.

Besides living in mom's basement because they shorted AAPL.
 
2021-09-23 1:30:21 PM  
If only there were some sort of system where a third party with expertise in contract law weighs the evidence and makes decisions about what is or is not "monopolistic heavy handed tactics".
 
2021-09-23 2:24:05 PM  

Marcos P: I can't wait until fortnite is gone.


Seems like you can.
 
2021-09-23 3:07:55 PM  
ESH. Not necessarily about this case. Apple makes its money by locking people into a proprietary brand that forces you to upgrade your phone long before it stops working and changes everything about the phone so you have to get all new EVERYTHING for it. Fortnite makes money by selling cosmetic items to children who may not realize that they're costing their parents money while making said children think they're good at a game that relies more on luck than anything else.
 
2021-09-23 3:36:21 PM  
Loot box / gambling-mechanic games are a category I wish they'd ban from the App Store completely. So. Oh well.
 
2021-09-23 3:49:10 PM  

Saborlas: Fortnite makes money by selling cosmetic items to children who may not realize that they're costing their parents money while making said children think they're good at a game that relies more on luck than anything else.


Selling cosmetic items via a monopolistic store that they control, using a fake "V-buck" currency that they also control, preventing third-party cosmetic item designers from competing.
 
2021-09-23 3:50:14 PM  

Marcos P: I can't wait until fortnite is gone.


It will be nice seeing Epic not being able to throw money at every developer to bring them to their garbage pc client.
 
2021-09-23 3:52:54 PM  

Horizon: Marcos P: I can't wait until fortnite is gone.

It will be nice seeing Epic not being able to throw money at every developer to bring them to their garbage pc client.


Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-23 4:12:36 PM  

Theaetetus: Horizon: Marcos P: I can't wait until fortnite is gone.

It will be nice seeing Epic not being able to throw money at every developer to bring them to their garbage pc client.

Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.
[Fark user image image 498x281]


I can't believe that's still going on. I signed up, bought one game (The Outer Worlds), and now have like 130 games on there without having spent another cent. WTF. They're giving them to me at a rate faster than my kids-having middle-aged ass can play them.
 
2021-09-23 4:53:36 PM  

Marcos P: I can't wait until fortnite is gone.


I also can't wait until Apple is gone.  Epic can DIAF after selling out to Tencent as well.  Between that and axing UT4, there's really nothing they have that appeals anymore.
 
2021-09-23 5:03:02 PM  

fallingcow: Loot box / gambling-mechanic games are a category I wish they'd ban from the App Store completely. So. Oh well.


I like how Borderlands took the piss out of this genre by just making the cool lootboxes free, just really rare to get a way to open them.
 
2021-09-23 5:03:58 PM  

Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.


Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.
 
2021-09-23 5:09:21 PM  

Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.


they still have to pay the developers for every game given away
 
2021-09-23 5:12:40 PM  

The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away


Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.
 
2021-09-23 5:12:49 PM  

The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away


That
 
2021-09-23 5:13:58 PM  

Baloo Uriza: The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away

Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.


Not true - I believe this was a thing that came out in some of the discovery documents in the trial. Epic is paying those developers as if they're paid downloads and taking a hit.
 
2021-09-23 5:15:09 PM  

Theaetetus: Baloo Uriza: The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away

Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.

Not true - I believe this was a thing that came out in some of the discovery documents in the trial. Epic is paying those developers as if they're paid downloads and taking a hit.


In factIf you're wondering how Epic manages to keep the free games flowing, it's because developers get paid for them. As Sweeney explains, "Epic pays each developer or publisher for the opportunity to distribute their game free for a week. The paid amounts are negotiated to ensure that the developer gains more from the Epic payment and resulting new customer influx than they would expect to lose in paid sales as the result of the free week."
 
2021-09-23 5:25:59 PM  

Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Baloo Uriza: The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away

Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.

Not true - I believe this was a thing that came out in some of the discovery documents in the trial. Epic is paying those developers as if they're paid downloads and taking a hit.

In fact: If you're wondering how Epic manages to keep the free games flowing, it's because developers get paid for them. As Sweeney explains, "Epic pays each developer or publisher for the opportunity to distribute their game free for a week. The paid amounts are negotiated to ensure that the developer gains more from the Epic payment and resulting new customer influx than they would expect to lose in paid sales as the result of the free week."


Yeah, so while the devs aren't getting the full 88% for every game downloaded during a free week, they're essentially getting paid for what their normal week-to-week sales would be, regardless of how many copies were downloaded during the free week.
 
2021-09-23 6:00:13 PM  

The Bestest: Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Baloo Uriza: The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away

Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.

Not true - I believe this was a thing that came out in some of the discovery documents in the trial. Epic is paying those developers as if they're paid downloads and taking a hit.

In fact: If you're wondering how Epic manages to keep the free games flowing, it's because developers get paid for them. As Sweeney explains, "Epic pays each developer or publisher for the opportunity to distribute their game free for a week. The paid amounts are negotiated to ensure that the developer gains more from the Epic payment and resulting new customer influx than they would expect to lose in paid sales as the result of the free week."

Yeah, so while the devs aren't getting the full 88% for every game downloaded during a free week, they're essentially getting paid for what their normal week-to-week sales would be, regardless of how many copies were downloaded during the free week.


Sure, but what are they getting in return?  Anybody see the source code on their Epic Games Launcher to make sure there's nothing weird hiding in it, ie, to spy on you?  If not, wear gloves if you touch it.
 
2021-09-23 6:18:32 PM  
Whatever. Fortnite sucks. It's the TikTok of video games.
 
2021-09-23 7:09:40 PM  

Theaetetus: Baloo Uriza: The Bestest: Baloo Uriza: Theaetetus: Be sure to grab the free game each week, since it's costing Epic a ton of money.

Digital items have no scarcity.  It'd cost 'em more to run the servers and have nobody show up.

they still have to pay the developers for every game given away

Other way around.  The devs are paying Epic to dump a title to build word of mouth hype.  You're being used as a living ad.

Not true - I believe this was a thing that came out in some of the discovery documents in the trial.


Correct. It came out that Epic was paying a lump sum for the games they offer.  What was paid changed with each game, but the number of downloads has no affect on what the publishers received.
 
2021-09-23 7:12:36 PM  

Baloo Uriza: Sure, but what are they getting in return?  Anybody see the source code on their Epic Games Launcher to make sure there's nothing weird hiding in it, ie, to spy on you?  If not, wear gloves if you touch it.


There doesn't necessarily have to be anything nefarious in the Epic Launcher, they just want you in the door.
If you already have their client installed on your system, you're that much more likely to use it to make a purchase (as opposed to downloading and installing the client specifically to make a purchase).

That said, if the client is actively running, I'm sure its in their EULA somewhere that they can do anything they want with the data that pertains to how their client is being used.
 
2021-09-23 7:25:50 PM  
I never understood the legal footing Epic was on. How does Apple have a monopoly? It's their hardware, software, App Store, and infrastructure. In the 90s, Microsoft got slapped because they were all but forcing multiple manufacturers to use their software on top of charging licensing fees for machines that weren't even shipping with Microsoft software.

Apple's anti-steering policies on alternate payments, though, was never gonna stand up to scrutiny. That was ordered to change and rightfully so. You can charge for the shelf space, but when you start dictating how a business is run you get into trouble. Let the end users decide if they want to use the secure iTunes payment system or Rando 3rd Party payment system.
 
2021-09-23 7:27:47 PM  
Is there a way for both Epic and Apple to lose?
 
2021-09-23 7:31:22 PM  
The really hilarious piece of information is that it is mathematically impossible for epic to make money even with their complete lack of service on 12%
 
2021-09-23 7:41:38 PM  

xsarien: I never understood the legal footing Epic was on. How does Apple have a monopoly? It's their hardware, software, App Store, and infrastructure.


First right of sale.  Customer purchased device, customer wants to play Fortnite on device, device is perfectly capable of running Fortnite, Apple says no.
 
2021-09-23 7:42:05 PM  

Nintenfreak: Is there a way for both Epic and Apple to lose?


This drags out long enough that the legal fees bankrupt them both.
 
2021-09-23 8:01:38 PM  

palelizard: Why would you want to play Fortnite on your phone? How, even?


The distaffbopper used to play it on her iPad.

Now she plays it on the Xbox because she couldn't update it.  Even if Apple did bring it back, she wouldn't use it anymore.  She's a convert.
 
2021-09-23 8:02:45 PM  

xsarien: I never understood the legal footing Epic was on. How does Apple have a monopoly? It's their hardware, software, App Store, and infrastructure. In the 90s, Microsoft got slapped because they were all but forcing multiple manufacturers to use their software on top of charging licensing fees for machines that weren't even shipping with Microsoft software.


What's going to be amusing will be the screeches of horror from our Android fanboys when Google loses it's own case against Epic, for the same reason.

You can't threaten device makers to keep Epic's app store from being preinstalled on their devices without running afoul of antitrust law.

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2021-09-23 8:23:07 PM  

Decorus: The really hilarious piece of information is that it is mathematically impossible for epic to make money even with their complete lack of service on 12%


I think Apple mentioned they didn't see EGS making a profit for something like half a decade during the proceedings.

A shame they don't throw money at making their launcher suck less, but I reiterate, Tim Sweeney is kind of a dumbass, and has been for years.
 
2021-09-23 8:58:45 PM  

BullBearMS: What's going to be amusing will be the screeches of horror from our Android fanboys when Google loses it's own case against Epic, for the same reason.


You keep bringing this up.... but nobody cares.
 
2021-09-23 9:15:05 PM  

trialpha: BullBearMS: What's going to be amusing will be the screeches of horror from our Android fanboys when Google loses it's own case against Epic, for the same reason.

You keep bringing this up.... but nobody cares.


You don't care about it so much that you whine about it constantly?

Google is going to lose it's antitrust case for the same reason that Microsoft lost theirs back in the day.

You can't use your monopoly OS to manipulate other companies that sell devices running your OS without antitrust law kicking in.
 
2021-09-23 9:23:22 PM  

BullBearMS: trialpha: BullBearMS: What's going to be amusing will be the screeches of horror from our Android fanboys when Google loses it's own case against Epic, for the same reason.

You keep bringing this up.... but nobody cares.

You don't care about it so much that you whine about it constantly?

Google is going to lose it's antitrust case for the same reason that Microsoft lost theirs back in the day.

You can't use your monopoly OS to manipulate other companies that sell devices running your OS without antitrust law kicking in.


Nobody whines or cares about Google losing their case. Let them lose. Android will still operate the same regardless of what happens: I, the user, can install whatever the hell I want on the machine.
 
2021-09-23 9:30:51 PM  

trialpha: BullBearMS: trialpha: BullBearMS: What's going to be amusing will be the screeches of horror from our Android fanboys when Google loses it's own case against Epic, for the same reason.

You keep bringing this up.... but nobody cares.

You don't care about it so much that you whine about it constantly?

Google is going to lose it's antitrust case for the same reason that Microsoft lost theirs back in the day.

You can't use your monopoly OS to manipulate other companies that sell devices running your OS without antitrust law kicking in.

Nobody whines or cares about Google losing their case. Let them lose. Android will still operate the same regardless of what happens: I, the user, can install whatever the hell I want on the machine.


It's almost like Android's an open source project or something.
 
2021-09-23 9:39:30 PM  

trialpha: I, the user, can install whatever the hell I want on the machine.


That's not what Epic says.

"Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage, through technical and business measures such as scary, repetitive security pop-ups for downloaded and updated software, restrictive manufacturer and carrier agreements and dealings, Google public relations characterizing third party software sources as malware, and new efforts such as Google Play Protect to outright block software obtained outside the Google Play store," an Epic Games spokesperson said in a statement. "Because of this, we've launched Fortnite for Android on the Google Play Store."

Also, we know from trial discovery for Google's various antitrust suits in progress that Google targeting third party app stores was intentional.  They viewed Epic's game store as a "contagion".
 
2021-09-23 9:42:04 PM  

Baloo Uriza: It's almost like Android's an open source project or something.


An "open source project" doesn't threaten device makers if one of their manufacturing customers uses a fork of Android.

Amazon had to find a company that didn't manufacture phones for anybody else before they could start making their Fire phones running their fork of Android.
 
2021-09-23 9:51:46 PM  

BullBearMS: trialpha: I, the user, can install whatever the hell I want on the machine.

That's not what Epic says.

"Google puts software downloadable outside of Google Play at a disadvantage, through technical and business measures such as scary, repetitive security pop-ups for downloaded and updated software, restrictive manufacturer and carrier agreements and dealings, Google public relations characterizing third party software sources as malware, and new efforts such as Google Play Protect to outright block software obtained outside the Google Play store," an Epic Games spokesperson said in a statement. "Because of this, we've launched Fortnite for Android on the Google Play Store."

Also, we know from trial discovery for Google's various antitrust suits in progress that Google targeting third party app stores was intentional.  They viewed Epic's game store as a "contagion".


And yet, I can still install whatever the hell I want on the device. Hell, I can even delete Google Play if I really want to.

Clearly Google should have just gone the Apple way if they wanted to avoid trouble: control each and every aspect of the device, OS, and ecosystem such that other companies and the users themselves can only access/use the device/OS in a way Google explicitly approves of. That's totally better.
 
2021-09-23 10:00:58 PM  
LOL.  Cry MOAR.

I can tell just how much you don't care about this from the fact that you whine about it constantly.A federal judge just ruled that Apple is acting within the bounds of antitrust and contract law.She's going to be the same judge that hands Google's ass to them.I can't wait to hear you whine about it.
 
2021-09-23 10:09:49 PM  

BullBearMS: LOL.  Cry MOAR.

I can tell just how much you don't care about this from the fact that you whine about it constantly.A federal judge just ruled that Apple is acting within the bounds of antitrust and contract law.She's going to be the same judge that hands Google's ass to them.I can't wait to hear you whine about it.


lol.
 
2021-09-23 10:10:09 PM  

BullBearMS: LOL.  Cry MOAR.

I can tell just how much you don't care about this from the fact that you whine about it constantly.A federal judge just ruled that Apple is acting within the bounds of antitrust and contract law.She's going to be the same judge that hands Google's ass to them.I can't wait to hear you whine about it.


Google should lose this case. They shouldn't be allowed to manipulate other companies that sell devices running their OS.

Just as Apple shouldn't be allowed to lock iPhones to iOS only. The can certainly sell iOS, or include it for free with the phone, but the user should be allowed to wipe all that and install a different OS if they so choose.
Similarly, Apple shouldn't be allowed to force all apps installed on iOS to be via the Apple store. They can certainly have the store, but the user should be allowed to install apps outside of it.

This whole locking of computing hardware, OS and ecosystem is something that shouldn't be permitted. That it is is harming computing in general.
 
2021-09-23 10:11:35 PM  

BullBearMS: LOL.  Cry MOAR.

I can tell just how much you don't care about this from the fact that you whine about it constantly.A federal judge just ruled that Apple is acting within the bounds of antitrust and contract law.She's going to be the same judge that hands Google's ass to them.I can't wait to hear you whine about it.


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