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(Talking Points Memo)   House Dems want to dynamite one of Thiel's tax dodges   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Tax, Income tax, Taxation, tax-free, Taxation in the United States, Roth IRA, Progressive tax, tax package  
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2198 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Sep 2021 at 4:15 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-22 1:39:48 PM  
Yes, please.

Send it!
 
2021-09-22 1:54:35 PM  
just tax wealth, there's nothing special about these accounts
 
2021-09-22 2:20:57 PM  
The sooner we exile that piece of shiat turncoat to New Zealand, the sooner this country starts to heal.
 
2021-09-22 4:02:00 PM  
The proposed reform, put forward by House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., would effectively cap the total amount someone could hold in a Roth at $20 million and compel the holders of the giant accounts to withdraw anything over that limit. Separately, individuals would have to add up the balances of their retirement accounts - including Roths, traditional IRAs, 401(k)s and 403(b)s - and every year withdraw half of any amount over $10 million. The provisions would only apply to individuals with taxable income of over $400,000 or couples making over $450,000.

So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000, this won't apply to any rich person who's taxes show an on-paper loss (or only comparatively modest income) in a particular year (which presumably would ignore gains in the retirement account itself)?  How many normal-income people have a $10+ million retirement account?
 
2021-09-22 4:17:06 PM  
Dynamite Thiel instead.
 
2021-09-22 4:18:06 PM  
they are going to play chicken with the budget.

Pass the 2 budgets or the next thing that gets sent down the pipe is big tax hikes on the GOP donor class.
 
2021-09-22 4:18:12 PM  

buserror: The proposed reform, put forward by House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., would effectively cap the total amount someone could hold in a Roth at $20 million and compel the holders of the giant accounts to withdraw anything over that limit. Separately, individuals would have to add up the balances of their retirement accounts - including Roths, traditional IRAs, 401(k)s and 403(b)s - and every year withdraw half of any amount over $10 million. The provisions would only apply to individuals with taxable income of over $400,000 or couples making over $450,000.

So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000, this won't apply to any rich person who's taxes show an on-paper loss (or only comparatively modest income) in a particular year (which presumably would ignore gains in the retirement account itself)?  How many normal-income people have a $10+ million retirement account?


Cool, doesn't apply to me.

/ yet
// it's close
 
2021-09-22 4:19:13 PM  

koder: The sooner we exile that piece of shiat turncoat to New Zealand, the sooner this country starts to heal.


Why would New Zealand want him?
 
2021-09-22 4:20:24 PM  
Great, another bash the rich thread. When are you poors finally going to learn your place? You have a refrigerator, what more do you want?!?
 
2021-09-22 4:20:57 PM  
They're not capped, now??

JFC.
 
2021-09-22 4:21:09 PM  
Median Wage in the US is $38,000

Easy : Cap the Max 401k at 65x the median wage.

That's $2,500,000. That's more than enough to live off of forever. 


The Position of Fuck You (John Goodman in The Gambler)
Youtube xdfeXqHFmPI


Get your F-yew money and then get out of the Economy.
 
2021-09-22 4:21:22 PM  
Cool.

Hurry up and do something about adjusted basis too.

/and ffs, the estate tax exemption is so hilariously over the top
//pound that ~$12m back down to something within the realm of 'makes one lick of economic sense'
 
2021-09-22 4:21:32 PM  

anfrind: koder: The sooner we exile that piece of shiat turncoat to New Zealand, the sooner this country starts to heal.

Why would New Zealand want him?


No idea, but they allowed him to buy a citizenship so we can exile him tomorrow and then he's their problem.
 
2021-09-22 4:21:49 PM  

buserror: So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000,...


Your thinking here is that he should tax the middle class on their retirement savings?
 
2021-09-22 4:23:23 PM  
This is actually a GOOD tax loophole to close up.
 
2021-09-22 4:23:32 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: buserror: The proposed reform, put forward by House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., would effectively cap the total amount someone could hold in a Roth at $20 million and compel the holders of the giant accounts to withdraw anything over that limit. Separately, individuals would have to add up the balances of their retirement accounts - including Roths, traditional IRAs, 401(k)s and 403(b)s - and every year withdraw half of any amount over $10 million. The provisions would only apply to individuals with taxable income of over $400,000 or couples making over $450,000.

So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000, this won't apply to any rich person who's taxes show an on-paper loss (or only comparatively modest income) in a particular year (which presumably would ignore gains in the retirement account itself)?  How many normal-income people have a $10+ million retirement account?

Cool, doesn't apply to me.

/ yet
// it's close


same
 
2021-09-22 4:23:44 PM  
Let's just tax wealth already.... even something light, like 0.1% on wealth over the first 100 million would bring in trillions of dollars, and pay for a bunch of desperately needed infrastructure investments to keep our country strong for decades to come.
 
2021-09-22 4:26:00 PM  
Richard Neal
I'm gonna call BS.
It looks like someone is trying to justify himself being in the Democratic party.
 
2021-09-22 4:26:10 PM  
they never ever go Gault, they just haven't grown up to the point that "take my ball and go home" sounds as childish to them as it does to the rest of us.

Go Gault already, we're tired of waiting.

/Libertarian is what we call free-riders so they don't get their fee-fee's hurt.
 
2021-09-22 4:27:31 PM  
Roth IRA's capped at $20M?  Why so high? How 'bout $5M?
 
2021-09-22 4:27:44 PM  

buserror: The proposed reform, put forward by House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., would effectively cap the total amount someone could hold in a Roth at $20 million and compel the holders of the giant accounts to withdraw anything over that limit. Separately, individuals would have to add up the balances of their retirement accounts - including Roths, traditional IRAs, 401(k)s and 403(b)s - and every year withdraw half of any amount over $10 million. The provisions would only apply to individuals with taxable income of over $400,000 or couples making over $450,000.

So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000, this won't apply to any rich person who's taxes show an on-paper loss (or only comparatively modest income) in a particular year (which presumably would ignore gains in the retirement account itself)?  How many normal-income people have a $10+ million retirement account?


You seriously have no clue how taxes work.In general "Taxable income" is not counting deductions or "losses".

And AOC pledged that she was going only after the super-rich who had Yachts?

Was that a lie too?
 
2021-09-22 4:27:56 PM  
If you don't want to tax wealth, I'm willing to compromise by making the federal definition of "limited times" a term of 3 years, never to exceed 3 years.

Sound good?
 
2021-09-22 4:28:59 PM  

firefly212: Let's just tax wealth already.... even something light, like 0.1% on wealth over the first 100 million would bring in trillions of dollars, and pay for a bunch of desperately needed infrastructure investments to keep our country strong for decades to come.


Because taxing wealth directly doesn't work. It's the reason why ever  country in Europe got rid of it.
 
2021-09-22 4:29:55 PM  
I remember a story where Thiel advocated for the FDA to only be able to regulate the safety of drugs and not have anything to do with regulating efficacy.

Sounds great.
 
2021-09-22 4:30:47 PM  

Visual Howlaround Title Sequence: Dynamite Thiel instead.


Came here to say this.  Leaving satisfied.
 
2021-09-22 4:31:11 PM  
media4.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-22 4:31:56 PM  
Narrator: They won't.
 
2021-09-22 4:33:59 PM  

sinner4ever: Richard Neal
I'm gonna call BS.
It looks like someone is trying to justify himself being in the Democratic party.


maybe, but he's nowhere near wealthy for his age. could be in earnest.

/at least afa congresscritters reporting their net worth goes, he's not exactly $$$
//https://www.opensecrets.org/persona​l-f​inances/net-worth?cid=N00000153&year=2​018 <- most recent
///wonder how much he's got in crypto, lol ... dat /\/\/ chart
 
2021-09-22 4:35:22 PM  

kmgenesis23: Roth IRA's capped at $20M?  Why so high? How 'bout $5M?


because that's in the 'dem party donor class' wheelhouse
 
2021-09-22 4:40:42 PM  
Tonight on FOX News: Dems want to tax your Roth IRA accounts. They are once again attacking your money! Why should you get hit once again by these tax and spend Democrats?
 
2021-09-22 4:40:42 PM  

Corvus: You seriously have no clue how taxes work.In general "Taxable income" is not counting deductions or "losses".


Err...Aren't AGI and "taxable income" synonymous? In which case, yes, they do count certain big deductions and certainly count business losses for self-employed and/or partnerships.

For instance, when I was living in Britain, I reduced my income based on the foreign earned income exclusion which was around 100k per year per person. My wife would list her self employment income net of expenses which knocked it down below the 100k threshold for her. So, despite the two of us earning well over $200k combined, the AGI number listed on our tax return was a paltry $40k. We ended up getting all of the stimulus cheques in 2020 and 2021 based on that AGI, despite the fact that our gross income would have made us ineligible.
 
2021-09-22 4:42:11 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: buserror: So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000,...

Your thinking here is that he should tax the middle class on their retirement savings?


Again, how many middle class people have $10+ million retirement accounts?
 
2021-09-22 4:47:57 PM  

buserror: The proposed reform, put forward by House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal, D-Mass., would effectively cap the total amount someone could hold in a Roth at $20 million and compel the holders of the giant accounts to withdraw anything over that limit. Separately, individuals would have to add up the balances of their retirement accounts - including Roths, traditional IRAs, 401(k)s and 403(b)s - and every year withdraw half of any amount over $10 million. The provisions would only apply to individuals with taxable income of over $400,000 or couples making over $450,000.

So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000, this won't apply to any rich person who's taxes show an on-paper loss (or only comparatively modest income) in a particular year (which presumably would ignore gains in the retirement account itself)?  How many normal-income people have a $10+ million retirement account?


Still (mostly) fixes a big loophole.  You're doing what lots of people do here-attacking the good because it isn't the perfect.  Politics involves lots and lots of compromise.
 
2021-09-22 4:50:05 PM  

Corvus: firefly212: Let's just tax wealth already.... even something light, like 0.1% on wealth over the first 100 million would bring in trillions of dollars, and pay for a bunch of desperately needed infrastructure investments to keep our country strong for decades to come.

Because taxing wealth directly doesn't work. It's the reason why ever  country in Europe got rid of it.


https://taxfoundation.org/wealth-taxe​s​-in-europe-2020/
Meanwhile, in reality...
 
2021-09-22 4:51:42 PM  

Stoker: Tonight on FOX News: Dems want to tax your Roth IRA accounts. They are once again attacking your money! Why should you get hit once again by these tax and spend Democrats?


Some PAC has been running exactly this ad for a week here in KC.
 
2021-09-22 4:53:49 PM  
Here is your evidence of "rotating villians".
Neal is the one that absolutely refused to get Trump's tax returns as head of Ways and Means and he was guilty of dirty tricks during his primary while begging wealthy donors to back him up against a progressive.
 
2021-09-22 4:54:39 PM  

buserror: Soup4Bonnie: buserror: So because of Biden's silly Norquist-lite pledge to not raise any tax on anyone earning under $400,000,...

Your thinking here is that he should tax the middle class on their retirement savings?

Again, how many middle class people have $10+ million retirement accounts?


ok.  I see what you're saying but do you think you're going to catch more of those 10+ million retirement accounts if you drop the annual salary to say $200,000? and how many more?  Like, six people?
 
2021-09-22 5:12:28 PM  

firefly212: Corvus: firefly212: Let's just tax wealth already.... even something light, like 0.1% on wealth over the first 100 million would bring in trillions of dollars, and pay for a bunch of desperately needed infrastructure investments to keep our country strong for decades to come.

Because taxing wealth directly doesn't work. It's the reason why ever  country in Europe got rid of it.

https://taxfoundation.org/wealth-taxes​-in-europe-2020/
Meanwhile, in reality...


That's different because
 
2021-09-22 6:12:04 PM  
Rmoney won't like that since he filled his IRAs by manipulating stocks.
 
2021-09-22 6:20:03 PM  
Seriously, stop pretending a guy that begged wealthy donors to bail him out after getting caught doing dirty tricks in the primary is going to so anything against the rich especially since he was so fearful of the wealthy he refused to get Trump's tax returns ,which he was entitled to.
 
2021-09-22 6:26:30 PM  

RasIanI: They're not capped, now??

JFC.


They're capped on how much you can put in (the right way). $6k/yr max.

But you can backdoor in as much as you want on it. But, you do have to pay tax one time to put it in. After that it completely and utterly tax free. But, you can only take it out after 65, or pass it off you to your children and reset the taxes.

Or, you can use that $6K to buy something worth billions and say its all un-taxable capital gains.

Or use combinations of these.
 
2021-09-22 6:32:12 PM  

kmgenesis23: Roth IRA's capped at $20M?  Why so high? How 'bout $5M?


Because some people got billion plus in them.

You get some crazy advantage if you have billions and not taxed any capital gains on every buy/sell.
 
2021-09-22 6:37:58 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-22 6:39:25 PM  

Corvus: firefly212: Let's just tax wealth already.... even something light, like 0.1% on wealth over the first 100 million would bring in trillions of dollars, and pay for a bunch of desperately needed infrastructure investments to keep our country strong for decades to come.

Because taxing wealth directly doesn't work.


we probably just didn't try hard enough
 
2021-09-22 6:51:05 PM  

anfrind: koder: The sooner we exile that piece of shiat turncoat to New Zealand, the sooner this country starts to heal.

Why would New Zealand want him?


to toss into mt doom
 
2021-09-22 6:51:21 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-22 7:57:17 PM  

kmgenesis23: Roth IRA's capped at $20M?  Why so high? How 'bout $5M?


Yeah, they're openly permitting people to continue to abuse Roth's.

If you're merely investing the $6,000 max each year, with an 8 percent average annual return, you'd have about $1.7 million after 40 years.

I have no doubt that after all of the attention Roth's are getting, there's going to be a whole new cottage industry dedicated to helping people with incomes between $200k and $500k move their retirement savings into Roth's through back doors.
 
2021-09-22 8:03:11 PM  

Geotpf: Still (mostly) fixes a big loophole.  You're doing what lots of people do here-attacking the good because it isn't the perfect.  Politics involves lots and lots of compromise.


I'm not saying "this isn't perfect so don't do it".  It's clearly an improvement over the status quo.  One can point at a provision and ask, "Why is this here?" without it being an attack on the overall measure.  My criticism was aimed more at Biden's pledge (which has bigger consequences, such as inability to raise the gas tax) than the fact that Congress is trying to accommodate it.

Soup4Bonnie: ok.  I see what you're saying but do you think you're going to catch more of those 10+ million retirement accounts if you drop the annual salary to say $200,000? and how many more?  Like, six people?


I don't know (and my point is that there doesn't need to be any income threshold; the wealth threshold alone is adequate).  Probably at least a few very wealthy people, based on what the article said about Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk having very little on-paper taxable income.  At best, it's yet another useless wart adding to the complexity of the tax code.  At worst, it's a loophole that could partially undermine the change being discussed.
 
2021-09-22 8:12:13 PM  

goodncold: they are going to play chicken with the budget.

Pass the 2 budgets or the next thing that gets sent down the pipe is big tax hikes on the GOP donor class.


Unfortunately the GOP donor class is also the Democratic donor class.
 
2021-09-22 8:23:57 PM  
That's not how Roth works. With 401K you pay tax upfront, with Roth you pay when you withdraw. You're still paying tax, although with a Roth you have more opportunity to earn on interest.

So, it's not a loophole, and it's a wonderful way to build financial security for most Americans if they expect to work until retirement.
 
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