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(Kotaku)   Online gamers: "This game's matchmaking needs to be balanced." (Game balances matchmaking.) Online gamers: "What the hell? You mean I have to fight in a fair match now? This is an outrage"   (kotaku.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, last March, subsequent wins, temporary help mechanic, matchmaking help, matchmaking assistance, latest internal blog post, high-risk, last weekend  
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1649 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 19 Sep 2021 at 11:26 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-19 11:34:08 AM  
Presumably different online gamers.
 
2021-09-19 12:00:41 PM  
I still play Destiny 2...I gave up on anything PVP long ago.  It just turned into a hyper competitive mess.

/I have never liked PVP.
//Probably actually playing Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky instead of Destiny.
///Destiny is still one of the finest shooters going these days though.
 
2021-09-19 12:08:05 PM  
Dead by daylight just swapped over to skill based matchmaking too, you better believe there's more angry complaining from the super intense players than the casuals, and in that game using an in meta build almost feels like cheating if you don't build yourself to counter it
 
2021-09-19 12:08:25 PM  
Waste of time.

If you make it skill based, players will eventually discover the metrics and then sandbag them.

99 % of online pvp folks want to wtfown not be at around 50% win rate and will go to ridiculous lengths to insure they get to seal club.
 
2021-09-19 12:12:00 PM  
I quit Destiny early on when I wasn't advanced enough to beat anyone and had to wait for more advanced players to fight my battles while I waited behind a rock
 
2021-09-19 12:25:33 PM  

TheJadedJester: I still play Destiny 2...I gave up on anything PVP long ago.  It just turned into a hyper competitive mess.

/I have never liked PVP.
//Probably actually playing Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky instead of Destiny.
///Destiny is still one of the finest shooters going these days though.


The only time I ever did pvp was when some quest line stupidly included it.
Never did enjoy it much and always resented having to do it.
 
2021-09-19 12:31:25 PM  

Muzzleloader: Waste of time.

If you make it skill based, players will eventually discover the metrics and then sandbag them.

99 % of online pvp folks want to wtfown not be at around 50% win rate and will go to ridiculous lengths to insure they get to seal club.


So what? If they want to game the system, they have to lose half their matches. If they don't game the system and it works as intended, they lose half their matches. Either way, everyone gets a ~50% win rate.

It gets a little more complicated with this 7-0 flawless tier thing talked about in the article, but even then, it resets every week.

The only potential problem I see is this: Critics fear that the new system could still easily be gamed. For instance, a team could hit six wins, purposefully lose the seventh game, and continue to stomp in the standard matchmaking pool. But I suspect players who do that will be cheating themselves out of some kind of end-game rewards.

Generally, skill-based matchmaking works and is essential to the longevity of a game. You just can't stay healthy with a high churn rate at the bottom, treating them like disposable content to be consumed.
 
2021-09-19 12:50:17 PM  
Most online PVP for me feels like trying to play chess with three pawns, a bishop and a rook.
 
2021-09-19 12:55:34 PM  
This is why I like the direction the Fallout 76 community has taken.  Nobody wants to PvP, they just want to participate in co-op and big server events.
 
2021-09-19 1:00:26 PM  
Trials was always broken, may as well have left it that way.
 
2021-09-19 1:39:43 PM  

Heavy Metal Nixon: Dead by daylight just swapped over to skill based matchmaking too, you better believe there's more angry complaining from the super intense players than the casuals, and in that game using an in meta build almost feels like cheating if you don't build yourself to counter it


Hence the reason I never touched that game.  Everything I've seen on it makes me think it's some kind of secret psychology test to see how far a player can be pushed until they snap and kill the neighbors.
 
2021-09-19 1:44:17 PM  
The fact that their matchmaking PvP mode wasn't, from the beginning, matching players by rating (and still isn't) is absolutely baffling to me.  There is no reason to do it any other way unless you are incompetent.
 
2021-09-19 2:25:17 PM  
They're far too upset feigning being upset over Blizzard putting in pictures of fruit.
 
2021-09-19 2:33:26 PM  
Why aren't people treating my children's fantasy space laser tag video game with the seriousness it deserves?
 
2021-09-19 2:41:46 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: Presumably different online gamers.


My thoughts exactly.

1st group: those getting matched up with players they are hopelessly outclassed by.

2nd group: those who outclassed those they were matched up with and feasted upon the weak.
 
2021-09-19 2:56:23 PM  
I avoid PvP at all costs, admittedly because I suck on it.  Against the AI in PvE, no problem.  Destiny 2 used to have a problem with certain Exotic Quests requiring PvP steps to obtain the good stuff, but I think they've corrected themselves and done away with such steps.
 
2021-09-19 3:00:11 PM  
This is one of the reasons I liked TF2 a bit more.  3v3 means you have to develop a team.  I like that I could drop into some public games in TF2 and be 1 of 8+ if they were amazing and I was suck, then I got better out of wanting to get better.  Sometimes if I was the top dog, I would try and lead and pull others up.  If I was in the middle then I helped push the group forward.

I was in my own opinion the best combat forward medic, (i died a lot but the soldiers and scouts who got a little extra juice oh man they were thankful.)  But I will always confess to my first love being a heavy Uber or Blitzkrieg.

It was.. fun.  These 3v3 style games don't seem as fun.  Maybe I'm old.
 
2021-09-19 3:21:33 PM  

DocUi: This is one of the reasons I liked TF2 a bit more.  3v3 means you have to develop a team.  I like that I could drop into some public games in TF2 and be 1 of 8+ if they were amazing and I was suck, then I got better out of wanting to get better.  Sometimes if I was the top dog, I would try and lead and pull others up.  If I was in the middle then I helped push the group forward.

I was in my own opinion the best combat forward medic, (i died a lot but the soldiers and scouts who got a little extra juice oh man they were thankful.)  But I will always confess to my first love being a heavy Uber or Blitzkrieg.

It was.. fun.  These 3v3 style games don't seem as fun.  Maybe I'm old.


In my experience (I played a ton, probably haven't touched it in 5 years or so), many TF2 servers also had a balancing mechanic where if one team was stomping it rerolled the teams.
 
2021-09-19 3:43:54 PM  

Slow To Return: Most online PVP for me feels like trying to play chess with three pawns, a bishop and a rook.


If you purchase the Special V.I.P Pack, you have a chance to get a queen! (but you will actually get 2 more pawns, maybe a second bishop)
 
2021-09-19 3:55:20 PM  

Puglio: Muzzleloader: Waste of time.

So what? If they want to game the system, they have to lose half their matches. If they don't game the system and it works as intended, they lose half their matches. Either way, everyone gets a ~50% win rate.


This starts out with players rage-quiting.  Then the system takes over and punishes them for it.  So they rage-quit by handing it over to an AI.  But not an artificial intelligence, more like artificial stupid designed to lose games badly.  And then the AStupidity keeps getting more and more human, possibly with the player having to keep a window open to pass capcha/turing tests.

In online gaming, the ability of the community to outwork the game designers is shocking.  And that's assuming there is any funding to try to continue to counter them.

Colour_out_of_Space: Slow To Return: Most online PVP for me feels like trying to play chess with three pawns, a bishop and a rook.

If you purchase the Special V.I.P Pack, you have a chance to get a queen! (but you will actually get 2 more pawns, maybe a second bishop)


And you get to choose your "balance position".  Or maintain the same "balance position", but get to play with the extra pieces (this funds the developers needed for the "red queen" race against the player community).
 
2021-09-19 4:09:30 PM  
My problem is my 12 year old plays all his online games on my account, makes it easier to monitor.  Downside is, if I get matched into his skill setting, there is no way I can survive battling a bunch of 12 year olds.
 
2021-09-19 4:27:39 PM  

winedrinkingman: My problem is my 12 year old plays all his online games on my account, makes it easier to monitor.  Downside is, if I get matched into his skill setting, there is no way I can survive battling a bunch of 12 year olds.


Because those 12yr olds will use their 12yr old twitch reflexes to wtfpwn you (and that is why this 60yr old will not do PVP, because I can't keep up with a bunch of over-sugared and over-caffineated 12yr olds who can spend all day memorizing every map and collecting all the good gear).
 
2021-09-19 4:50:56 PM  
I mean... it's Destiny 2, it's a PvE game that was built from the ground up for co-op PvE.  This applies, frankly, to the vast majority of MMOs, not just the Destiny series.  The exceptions where PvP is actually the foundation of the game to a large enough extent to be properly balanced: Eve Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WAR... there are so few that I'm pretty sure only one of those even still exists.

Not really surprising that the part of the game that's a tacked-on afterthought based around hastily bolted-on post-hoc jerryrigging is having issues with balance.  The intended-by-design endgame was always strikes/raids/etc.

If you want to PvP as the main focus of your gaming time, don't get upset that the minigame add-on that's basically just "something to do between the actual content" isn't a fully-developed game in itself, go download another game that's actually built with PvP in mind.  Y'know, almost literally any other multiplayer shooter.

// The primary difference is that in a PvE game a build can be optimized to give an overwhelming mechanical advantage that other builds can't overcome with skill or tactics with any reasonable reliability, before the game starts, so it's possible to literally never have had a chance.  In an actual PvP game that can happen in an individual match if someone snowballs, but it's fundamentally something you could have done something about.  The level starting point is an absolute requirement of PvP games (or at least un-level in a way that's negotiated and known in advance), and literally the opposite of the core, most important element of a PvE MMO: progression.  They're fundamentally not compatible.
 
2021-09-19 4:57:47 PM  

ClavellBCMI: winedrinkingman: My problem is my 12 year old plays all his online games on my account, makes it easier to monitor.  Downside is, if I get matched into his skill setting, there is no way I can survive battling a bunch of 12 year olds.

Because those 12yr olds will use their 12yr old twitch reflexes to wtfpwn you (and that is why this 60yr old will not do PVP, because I can't keep up with a bunch of over-sugared and over-caffineated 12yr olds who can spend all day memorizing every map and collecting all the good gear).


Honestly, this is why I've always loved the Battlefield series. You can be dog crap at shooting and still meaningfully contribute to your team. I'm not a huge fan of how they've kinda melded the classes together since Bad Company 2 but just spotting, laying down some mines, or healing your team can get you to the top of the board in points and help win the match.
 
2021-09-19 5:00:17 PM  
Never cared for matchmaking. I prefer to bs in 7v1 comp stomps if I want to pwn the newbs, but those days are long gone so I just stick to single player and laugh at the kids who will never know the golden age they're missing.
 
2021-09-19 5:30:41 PM  

Madstand: Heavy Metal Nixon: Dead by daylight just swapped over to skill based matchmaking too, you better believe there's more angry complaining from the super intense players than the casuals, and in that game using an in meta build almost feels like cheating if you don't build yourself to counter it

Hence the reason I never touched that game.  Everything I've seen on it makes me think it's some kind of secret psychology test to see how far a player can be pushed until they snap and kill the neighbors.


It's in a better place now than it used to be and the skill based has really helped segregation the toxic player base, win at any costs people are getting put against each other and not me and I love it.

Definitely try before you buy, it being in xbox gamepass has been a marketing godsend for them
 
2021-09-19 5:39:28 PM  

UNC_Samurai: This is why I like the direction the Fallout 76 community has taken.  Nobody wants to PvP, they just want to participate in co-op and big server events.


It's nice when there is a community goal like waiting for the game to work
 
2021-09-19 5:40:47 PM  
Gave up on online gaming long ago. Every game there is a extremely toxic player base, or smurfs trying to squash new players. It just wasn't fun anymore.
 
2021-09-19 5:49:03 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: TheJadedJester: I still play Destiny 2...I gave up on anything PVP long ago.  It just turned into a hyper competitive mess.

/I have never liked PVP.
//Probably actually playing Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky instead of Destiny.
///Destiny is still one of the finest shooters going these days though.

The only time I ever did pvp was when some quest line stupidly included it.
Never did enjoy it much and always resented having to do it.


I still play and enjoy Destiny 2, but I'm tired of having to abandon exotic catalysts and other quests because it has a crucible or Gambit requirement.  That crap isn't fun for me.
 
2021-09-19 6:23:17 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... it's Destiny 2, it's a PvE game that was built from the ground up for co-op PvE.  This applies, frankly, to the vast majority of MMOs, not just the Destiny series.  The exceptions where PvP is actually the foundation of the game to a large enough extent to be properly balanced: Eve Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WAR... there are so few that I'm pretty sure only one of those even still exists.

Not really surprising that the part of the game that's a tacked-on afterthought based around hastily bolted-on post-hoc jerryrigging is having issues with balance.  The intended-by-design endgame was always strikes/raids/etc.

If you want to PvP as the main focus of your gaming time, don't get upset that the minigame add-on that's basically just "something to do between the actual content" isn't a fully-developed game in itself, go download another game that's actually built with PvP in mind.  Y'know, almost literally any other multiplayer shooter.

// The primary difference is that in a PvE game a build can be optimized to give an overwhelming mechanical advantage that other builds can't overcome with skill or tactics with any reasonable reliability, before the game starts, so it's possible to literally never have had a chance.  In an actual PvP game that can happen in an individual match if someone snowballs, but it's fundamentally something you could have done something about.  The level starting point is an absolute requirement of PvP games (or at least un-level in a way that's negotiated and known in advance), and literally the opposite of the core, most important element of a PvE MMO: progression.  They're fundamentally not compatible.


Guild Wars 2. A pve game built around a pvp combat engine. Two pvp modes small scale pvp, and WvW (three way server massed battles).

At nine years old the small scale pvp game is mostly dead because they can't get match balancing to work. The toxic shiatheads have pretty much driven everyone else away making it really hard to get matches going. It's dominated by flavor of the month builds as the class balance shifts around.

But WvW is thriving, it's always on, and always evolving, with the best content generated by the player guilds. It has it's own problems, mainly with population imbalance. Your server may be nearly a ghost town at certain times of day while your enemies are swarming. But there is always something to do, and fights to be had somewhere even if you have to hit and run a larger force.

The after two expacs, with a third due next spring, the pve side of the game is huge and you could never set foot in either competitive game mode and have fun. It's all built in a way that you always happy to have another player show up.

The thing is the way GW2's combat engine works with few skills, fast reaction gameplay, and a focus on dodging damage makes the skill floor pretty darn high compared to other games. While the skill cap in pve is very low. Meaning once you really understand how your class works in relation to the game mechanics pve becomes very very very easy. The skill cap then gets very high again when you enter either competitive mode because you're fighting humans. An experienced competitive player is so used to playing on the bleeding edge of the combat engine's capabilities that PvE becomes trivial to them.

There are definitely class imbalances, and flavor of the month builds, but they are never so out of line that they never have a counter. In the small scale PvP this is harder to counter as you can't leave the match and come back so it tends to be a fotm bonanza in there. In WvW you have a number of ways to counter someone cheesing on fotm builds, you can simply avoid them, you can bring more friends, or you can run with a blob and not think about it too hard, and if you're really pressed you can usually (sometimes there are map ques) swap to something that counters the pain in your ass.


While the game is not perfect, no game is, GW2 is hands down the best MMO on the market, and none of the ones coming down the way seem to be improving on it.
 
2021-09-19 6:33:10 PM  
Playing online games like COD always makes me laugh for how serious people take them. I remember playing COD and our team was getting whooped on a map. They were slaughtering us. So, I grabbed a sniper rifle, hid in our spawn cave and picked off who I could. Oh, the hate came. I was trash, I wasn't playing the game right, etc, etc. I laughed. What I did doesn't go against the rules. Same thing for camping in general. It basically comes down to them wanting you to play in a way that makes it easy for them to kill you.  As long as someone isn't using hacks, I really don't care how they play. You want to camp? Awesome. You want to go full commando? Cool. You want to do the supposed "cheap" move that the game allows, be my guest. It's a game; lighten up, Francis.
 
2021-09-19 9:23:26 PM  
Skill slowdown is a thing. On twitch games I have to play trap and flank or use hard cover and hope my teammates are in the same area.

But it's not stupid to play, just not an arena that favors experience.
 
2021-09-19 9:36:09 PM  
The wailing and gnashing of teeth over not being able to pubstomp every match in Apex Legends due to sbmm is deafening. People can't deal with an even match, never mind being matched against people who are better, in a 60 player lobby.
 
2021-09-19 9:42:05 PM  

Jim_Callahan: I mean... it's Destiny 2, it's a PvE game that was built from the ground up for co-op PvE.  This applies, frankly, to the vast majority of MMOs, not just the Destiny series.  The exceptions where PvP is actually the foundation of the game to a large enough extent to be properly balanced: Eve Online, Dark Age of Camelot, WAR... there are so few that I'm pretty sure only one of those even still exists.

Not really surprising that the part of the game that's a tacked-on afterthought based around hastily bolted-on post-hoc jerryrigging is having issues with balance.  The intended-by-design endgame was always strikes/raids/etc.

If you want to PvP as the main focus of your gaming time, don't get upset that the minigame add-on that's basically just "something to do between the actual content" isn't a fully-developed game in itself, go download another game that's actually built with PvP in mind.  Y'know, almost literally any other multiplayer shooter.

// The primary difference is that in a PvE game a build can be optimized to give an overwhelming mechanical advantage that other builds can't overcome with skill or tactics with any reasonable reliability, before the game starts, so it's possible to literally never have had a chance.  In an actual PvP game that can happen in an individual match if someone snowballs, but it's fundamentally something you could have done something about.  The level starting point is an absolute requirement of PvP games (or at least un-level in a way that's negotiated and known in advance), and literally the opposite of the core, most important element of a PvE MMO: progression.  They're fundamentally not compatible.


I miss DAoC and I feel that DAoC was the pinnacle of that PvP centric design, though it struggled at times(if it wasn't void mages, it was pets, if it wasn't pets it was dots, if it wasn't dots it was something else... there was always a dominant meta and it always favored a specific realm, unlike Eve).  I haven't seen any game that can create the atmosphere that Darkness Falls created as a PvP dungeon.  Leroy Jenkins didn't have to contend with Hibernia taking control of the dungeon while they were raiding Legion, and that is something that has yet to be properly replicated(though Eve nullspace complexes are similarly open to PvP)
 
2021-09-19 10:16:57 PM  
I'm not twelve, and I am not a swirling mixture of pre teen angst and testosterone.
I play to relax after work and don't have the time to "git gud".
Also not interested in being exposed to the antics of pre viable adults.

/anyway, my reflexes have so degraded was the last time i played a military shooter
someone shot me 8 times, stabbed in the face 5 times, and tea bagged me twice
even before i hit the ground.

// SW Battlefront, I was marveling at the recreation of the Hoth rebel base and thought to myself "this is nic..",
only to turn around and find myself at chest level staring at a particular familiar set of life support buttons of
everyone's favorite, famous, fascist space cyborg, who then proceeded to one swipe, murder the fark out of me with his elegant weapon of a more enlightened age.
 
2021-09-19 11:13:34 PM  

Shakes999: ClavellBCMI: winedrinkingman: My problem is my 12 year old plays all his online games on my account, makes it easier to monitor.  Downside is, if I get matched into his skill setting, there is no way I can survive battling a bunch of 12 year olds.

Because those 12yr olds will use their 12yr old twitch reflexes to wtfpwn you (and that is why this 60yr old will not do PVP, because I can't keep up with a bunch of over-sugared and over-caffineated 12yr olds who can spend all day memorizing every map and collecting all the good gear).

Honestly, this is why I've always loved the Battlefield series. You can be dog crap at shooting and still meaningfully contribute to your team. I'm not a huge fan of how they've kinda melded the classes together since Bad Company 2 but just spotting, laying down some mines, or healing your team can get you to the top of the board in points and help win the match.


Yoooo this farker gets it. I farking love Battlefield. Even if you aren't aren't the MURDERLATOR-1000 you can absolutely make a significant contribution to your team's win. Don't have amazing twitch reflexes with the ability to spot a single moving pixel of some asshat in a bush? That's perfectly fine. Get on the objective, bring ammo or health. Battlefield isn't a death match. The objectives farking matter. In my play group we have a few guys who are the butchers. We also have a number of middle of the road guys who are pretty average in the murder department. Their support is hugely helpful throughout the round. They play the objectives, the drop ammo, health and go for revives and typically all of us are top of the board.

TLDR: Battlefield is an FPS that doesn't punish people for not having the reflexes of a trapdoor spider.
 
2021-09-20 12:28:15 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-20 2:22:54 AM  

HereNorThere: Herr Flick's Revenge: TheJadedJester: I still play Destiny 2...I gave up on anything PVP long ago.  It just turned into a hyper competitive mess.

/I have never liked PVP.
//Probably actually playing Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky instead of Destiny.
///Destiny is still one of the finest shooters going these days though.

The only time I ever did pvp was when some quest line stupidly included it.
Never did enjoy it much and always resented having to do it.

I still play and enjoy Destiny 2, but I'm tired of having to abandon exotic catalysts and other quests because it has a crucible or Gambit requirement.  That crap isn't fun for me.


I've managed to get a few.
Did the pvp stuff grudgingly.
I refuse to do the Gambit matches, they just suck.
I haven't played in awhile but at one point I was really good at headshots with my hand Cannon.
 
2021-09-20 3:33:47 AM  

BafflerMeal: [Fark user image image 425x212]


I got some sort of "Being a Bully" achievement during my first match trying to figure out controls. I grabbed someone and dragged them off the platform to our deaths.
 
2021-09-20 4:07:28 AM  

djloid2010: Playing online games like COD always makes me laugh for how serious people take them. I remember playing COD and our team was getting whooped on a map. They were slaughtering us. So, I grabbed a sniper rifle, hid in our spawn cave and picked off who I could. Oh, the hate came. I was trash, I wasn't playing the game right, etc, etc. I laughed. What I did doesn't go against the rules. Same thing for camping in general. It basically comes down to them wanting you to play in a way that makes it easy for them to kill you.  As long as someone isn't using hacks, I really don't care how they play. You want to camp? Awesome. You want to go full commando? Cool. You want to do the supposed "cheap" move that the game allows, be my guest. It's a game; lighten up, Francis.


Yeah. Legitimate camping is easy to deal with because you know exactly where the person is, which is often the worst position to be in. In the Modern Warfare/Black Ops games, the camping spots were typically enclosed and the M203 (or just a grenade if closer) made them a deathtrap. The complaints over camping that I got were just excuses because I would be an easy kill if I was actually camping and the people that actually camped complained about the M203.

I used to enjoy using an ACR w/ FMJ but eventually switched to more sporting setups because people would consistently taunt that I was going to get banned for wallhacking and refused to believe that "running at a constant speed in a straight line behind cover" made their path predictable. Don't get me wrong, both the ACR and the M203 (combined with the hit feedback) were cheap but there was no use complaining about them when one can just play a little differently. An AUG or SCAR were just as effective against most and I had plenty of success even with a single-shot FAL.

I never used knife setups but they received a similar amount of hate despite only being at an advantage against players with tunnel vision or who were at close enough range that they could tank a few shots. Even then, it quickly becomes an even matchup if there's any cover nearby and the winner is whomever can outmaneuver the other. All of these are overkill anyway, as "not being where they think I am" was enough to take down most players regardless of setup. I burned out on FPS PvP and their toxic players after those games.
 
2021-09-20 4:40:04 AM  

falkone32: djloid2010: Playing online games like COD always makes me laugh for how serious people take them. I remember playing COD and our team was getting whooped on a map. They were slaughtering us. So, I grabbed a sniper rifle, hid in our spawn cave and picked off who I could. Oh, the hate came. I was trash, I wasn't playing the game right, etc, etc. I laughed. What I did doesn't go against the rules. Same thing for camping in general. It basically comes down to them wanting you to play in a way that makes it easy for them to kill you.  As long as someone isn't using hacks, I really don't care how they play. You want to camp? Awesome. You want to go full commando? Cool. You want to do the supposed "cheap" move that the game allows, be my guest. It's a game; lighten up, Francis.

Yeah. Legitimate camping is easy to deal with because you know exactly where the person is, which is often the worst position to be in. In the Modern Warfare/Black Ops games, the camping spots were typically enclosed and the M203 (or just a grenade if closer) made them a deathtrap. The complaints over camping that I got were just excuses because I would be an easy kill if I was actually camping and the people that actually camped complained about the M203.

I used to enjoy using an ACR w/ FMJ but eventually switched to more sporting setups because people would consistently taunt that I was going to get banned for wallhacking and refused to believe that "running at a constant speed in a straight line behind cover" made their path predictable. Don't get me wrong, both the ACR and the M203 (combined with the hit feedback) were cheap but there was no use complaining about them when one can just play a little differently. An AUG or SCAR were just as effective against most and I had plenty of success even with a single-shot FAL.

I never used knife setups but they received a similar amount of hate despite only being at an advantage against players with tunnel vision or who were at close enough range that they could tank a few shots. Even then, it quickly becomes an even matchup if there's any cover nearby and the winner is whomever can outmaneuver the other. All of these are overkill anyway, as "not being where they think I am" was enough to take down most players regardless of setup. I burned out on FPS PvP and their toxic players after those games.


The game I mentioned above I often get accused of my build carrying me as I just slide through a wall of enemy damage virtually unscathed.

All I really do is never go down the dead center of an approach. I pick a side and just literally walk past 90 percent of the damage being thrown out without using any ability other than putting my feet in the right place.
 
2021-09-20 7:08:26 AM  
Destiny 2 is in as good of a place right now as its been in a long, long time. The recent changes to trials have been great and the number of players has gone way way up, even though there's been a lot of whining about this small aspect of it. I have always hated PVP, but making most of the loot accessible to chumps like me has me interested in getting better.

PVE/story side of the game is also going great, though they don't have a decent way to get into it from scratch and know wtf is going on.
 
2021-09-20 4:28:27 PM  

TheJadedJester: I still play Destiny 2...I gave up on anything PVP long ago.  It just turned into a hyper competitive mess.

/I have never liked PVP.
//Probably actually playing Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky instead of Destiny.
///Destiny is still one of the finest shooters going these days though.


I tried Destiny 2 online once, the first time I tried running through any of the instances two other people would come in that can run the thing with their eyes closed and would have the final boss half dead before I get halfway through the map.

I recognized the community for what it was then and uninstalled.
 
2021-09-20 4:30:43 PM  

Puglio: Muzzleloader: Waste of time.

If you make it skill based, players will eventually discover the metrics and then sandbag them.

99 % of online pvp folks want to wtfown not be at around 50% win rate and will go to ridiculous lengths to insure they get to seal club.

So what? If they want to game the system, they have to lose half their matches. If they don't game the system and it works as intended, they lose half their matches. Either way, everyone gets a ~50% win rate.

It gets a little more complicated with this 7-0 flawless tier thing talked about in the article, but even then, it resets every week.

The only potential problem I see is this: Critics fear that the new system could still easily be gamed. For instance, a team could hit six wins, purposefully lose the seventh game, and continue to stomp in the standard matchmaking pool. But I suspect players who do that will be cheating themselves out of some kind of end-game rewards.

Generally, skill-based matchmaking works and is essential to the longevity of a game. You just can't stay healthy with a high churn rate at the bottom, treating them like disposable content to be consumed.


I know I'm going to show my age here, but I miss the days of Lan parties. The social expectation that players that are really really good need to tone down there playing so everybody could have fun is much more prevalent.

Anybody caught spawn camping simply had Little Debbie snack cakes thrown at them until they learned their lesson.

I am old.
 
2021-09-20 5:08:38 PM  

rummonkey: Puglio: Muzzleloader: Waste of time.

If you make it skill based, players will eventually discover the metrics and then sandbag them.

99 % of online pvp folks want to wtfown not be at around 50% win rate and will go to ridiculous lengths to insure they get to seal club.

So what? If they want to game the system, they have to lose half their matches. If they don't game the system and it works as intended, they lose half their matches. Either way, everyone gets a ~50% win rate.

It gets a little more complicated with this 7-0 flawless tier thing talked about in the article, but even then, it resets every week.

The only potential problem I see is this: Critics fear that the new system could still easily be gamed. For instance, a team could hit six wins, purposefully lose the seventh game, and continue to stomp in the standard matchmaking pool. But I suspect players who do that will be cheating themselves out of some kind of end-game rewards.

Generally, skill-based matchmaking works and is essential to the longevity of a game. You just can't stay healthy with a high churn rate at the bottom, treating them like disposable content to be consumed.

I know I'm going to show my age here, but I miss the days of Lan parties. The social expectation that players that are really really good need to tone down there playing so everybody could have fun is much more prevalent.

Anybody caught spawn camping simply had Little Debbie snack cakes thrown at them until they learned their lesson.

I am old.


I, too, miss the LAN parties of yore.
 
2021-09-20 6:09:58 PM  

PlaidJaguar: rummonkey: Puglio: Muzzleloader: Waste of time.

If you make it skill based, players will eventually discover the metrics and then sandbag them.

99 % of online pvp folks want to wtfown not be at around 50% win rate and will go to ridiculous lengths to insure they get to seal club.

So what? If they want to game the system, they have to lose half their matches. If they don't game the system and it works as intended, they lose half their matches. Either way, everyone gets a ~50% win rate.

It gets a little more complicated with this 7-0 flawless tier thing talked about in the article, but even then, it resets every week.

The only potential problem I see is this: Critics fear that the new system could still easily be gamed. For instance, a team could hit six wins, purposefully lose the seventh game, and continue to stomp in the standard matchmaking pool. But I suspect players who do that will be cheating themselves out of some kind of end-game rewards.

Generally, skill-based matchmaking works and is essential to the longevity of a game. You just can't stay healthy with a high churn rate at the bottom, treating them like disposable content to be consumed.

I know I'm going to show my age here, but I miss the days of Lan parties. The social expectation that players that are really really good need to tone down there playing so everybody could have fun is much more prevalent.

Anybody caught spawn camping simply had Little Debbie snack cakes thrown at them until they learned their lesson.

I am old.

I, too, miss the LAN parties of yore.


I do not miss carrying around my 19in CRT monitor though.
 
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