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(Politico)   Congressional Democrats want to investigate what went wrong in Afghanistan withdrawal, but do it in a way that doesn't slime Biden   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Joe Biden, United States Senate, United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, Barack Obama, Republican Party, Democratic Party, President Joe Biden's Hill allies, John Kerry  
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458 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Sep 2021 at 12:05 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-17 10:51:06 AM  
Start here:
Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-17 10:51:48 AM  
Start with kidnapping the former Afghan President to appear before Congress.

/where's the money Lebowski
 
2021-09-17 11:01:18 AM  
It "went wrong" when we knew Saudi Arabia attacked us but instead we invaded Afghanistan.
 
2021-09-17 11:30:24 AM  

koder: It "went wrong" when we knew Saudi Arabia attacked us but instead we invaded Afghanistan.


Bin Laden and friends were hanging out there at the time. If the exercise had been framed as international law enforcement, it would have been reasonable. Consider: the US, with full NATO support, says "we are going to arrest this particular group of assholes and put them on trial for 9/11. Once we have them in a cell, we are going home. You can help to hand them over or you can be on the receiving end of an unlimited weapons budget". Keep the focus on that one specific objective. Do not bring in any "holy crusade", "nation building", "good vs. evil", or similar. Absolutely do not make the troops fark off into an unrelated country on an unrelated mission to capture Colin Powell's magical anthrax factories. Go in, get the job done, go home, and leave with a parting message of "don't do that again".

Then as a longer-term response, go full Jimmy Carter on making oil obsolete. Put 20 years worth of military budget into R&D for carbon-free energy production instead. Make Saudi Arabia irrelevant on the global stage, unless they want to sell some of their sand to a solar panel manufacturer.
 
2021-09-17 11:45:36 AM  
It took Democrats 6 months to set up an investigation into January 6, which has only held one hearing in the two months since it formed, and yet they're making this shiat a priority now? Fark off with this, just move the fark on. Biden did a good thing that was mishandled for all of 12 hours and then fixed, let's focus on the bad guys here.
 
2021-09-17 11:56:07 AM  
How about we figure out how to get poor people healthcare and food first?
 
2021-09-17 11:59:15 AM  

NewportBarGuy: How about we figure out how to get poor people healthcare and food first?


That smacks of being progressive, and if pro is the opposite of con, well then you know.  Congress.
 
2021-09-17 12:06:27 PM  
What went wrong was "We were there in the first place"
 
2021-09-17 12:07:28 PM  
They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.
 
2021-09-17 12:08:42 PM  
Easey Peasy. Just investigate why Trump was for the withdrawal before he was against the withdrawel. It's unlikely just one administration farked up. Most of these things are the work of decades.
 
2021-09-17 12:09:26 PM  
Blame Canada. Bush. It doesn't matter which Bush.
 
2021-09-17 12:10:08 PM  
Easy, start by subpoenaing testimony and paperwork for all the planning that happened prior to January 20, 2021.

Once that doesn't exist, have a hearing on Trump's demands to withdraw on January 15 before Biden took office and get expert witnesses to assess how that would have gone in comparison.

Then make a three column chart explaining what Trump wanted, what Trump actually did, and what Biden did with the constraints he was left.

No spin. Just facts.
 
2021-09-17 12:11:04 PM  

whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.


BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT
 
2021-09-17 12:11:34 PM  

NewportBarGuy: How about we figure out how to get poor people healthcare and food first?


Maybe that Peace Dividend?

Use a trillion you've earmarked for war to keep the American People alive.
 
2021-09-17 12:11:52 PM  
"What went wrong" with the Afghanistan evacuation was . . . not much. Any "investigation" is solely at the request of defense contractors so they can wave the bloody shirt whenever we need to withdraw from some place we're occupying.
 
2021-09-17 12:11:58 PM  
What went wrong exactly? We're out of the country like everybody wanted, and we did it with minimal casualties while pulling off the greatest airlift evacuation in history.
 
2021-09-17 12:12:05 PM  
If they were smart they'd trick Repubs to get on board with a bipartisan commission to investigate what went wrong and follow the trail all the way back to Rump.
 
2021-09-17 12:12:27 PM  

brantgoose: Blame Canada. Bush. It doesn't matter which Bush.


Bush - Machinehead (Official Video)
Youtube 5WPbqYoz9HA
Please clap
 
2021-09-17 12:12:34 PM  
Let's find the truth and not worry about who it harms.  Country before politics.
 
2021-09-17 12:12:40 PM  
It's going to be awesome in the summer of 2024 when the new Michael Bay movie releases about how a bunch of Marines swooped into Afghanistan after shadowy figures in Washington gave a stand down order and successfully saved all those people.
 
2021-09-17 12:13:13 PM  
The fallacy of that is that Peace doesn't pay dividends where work doesn't pay. War and speculation pays dividends.
 
2021-09-17 12:13:24 PM  

whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.


I guess we're on to the Republican mindset of "everything I don't like must be investigated, and the more I don't like it the more we need to investigate it"

Like, I get that Manchin sucks, but c'mon.
 
2021-09-17 12:13:25 PM  

Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT



Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land
 
2021-09-17 12:13:39 PM  

Gooch: If they were smart they'd trick Repubs to get on board with a bipartisan commission to investigate what went wrong and follow the trail all the way back to Rump.


The republicans don't want answers, they want questions
 
2021-09-17 12:13:50 PM  
What failures? Ending a war and leaving is difficult. Especially when you didn't win and the opposing forces can't wait for you to leave.
 
2021-09-17 12:13:56 PM  

thealgorerhythm: brantgoose: Blame Canada. Bush. It doesn't matter which Bush.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/5WPbqYoz​9HA] Please clap


Actually, I did think of that one as well as Bush 41 and 43, but thanks for the illustration.
 
2021-09-17 12:14:01 PM  

anjin-san: What went wrong exactly? We're out of the country like everybody wanted, and we did it with minimal casualties while pulling off the greatest airlift evacuation in history.


Nothing. Literally no Americans care. We gave up on it years ago and are just glad it's over.

The Republican noise machines are very few and lying anyway.
 
2021-09-17 12:14:28 PM  

Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land


I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.
 
2021-09-17 12:15:26 PM  

Dafatone: What failures? Ending a war and leaving is difficult. Especially when you didn't win and the opposing forces can't wait for you to leave.


The US Way:  never have an exit policy. That's for the Other Guys and the Other Place.

The most important part of war planning is the one part they leave out of war planning:  how to skiddadle gracefully and with a good excuse why it's not a retreat.
 
2021-09-17 12:17:16 PM  
This should be obvious to politicians, but have you tired lying?
 
2021-09-17 12:17:37 PM  
So, Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

/how many investigations into Trump's antics did we get from the GOP?
 
2021-09-17 12:18:12 PM  

whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.


You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!
 
2021-09-17 12:18:45 PM  

SolderGlob: So, Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

/how many investigations into Trump's antics did we get from the GOP?


Or they expect to be able to squarely lay the blame on Trump and Bush... which would be accurate.
 
2021-09-17 12:18:47 PM  
How about starting with the military advisors who have been consistently wrong about Afghanistan for 20 years and are the same people on the job when they were wrong about the state of the country the last few months.  Heck, these are the same people who advised our last drone strike there, which might have killed half a dozen children.
 
2021-09-17 12:19:09 PM  
What went wrong is how every news station from FOX to CNN to MSNBC, plus a handful of Democrats, did nothing but harp on what a disaster this was.  Nothing was going to prevent what happen, but it would have gone smoother if Trump did not set the tables for the Taliban to take over as quickly as they did.  Why not talk about the massive logistics and planning it took, pus coordination with other countries, to successfully evacuate as many as we did.  Quite frankly, given the circumstances, I think it was quite a success.
 
2021-09-17 12:19:22 PM  

Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!


He's already said he has no intention of switching parties.
 
2021-09-17 12:19:22 PM  

Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!


Yeah, a multi-billion dollar political party which represents the majority of the country.

They're so helpless.
 
2021-09-17 12:21:03 PM  
Obviously Biden was President at the time but for Afghanistan issues Trump was President till September
 
2021-09-17 12:23:26 PM  

Kazan: What leverage do you think they have?!


If they can't bring one intransigent member of their party into line on important, country-saving, perhaps species-saving ideas, what farking good are the Democrats as a political party?
 
2021-09-17 12:24:07 PM  

Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!


For fark's sake, guys, it's rein
 
2021-09-17 12:24:11 PM  

brantgoose: The fallacy of that is that Peace doesn't pay dividends where work doesn't pay. War and speculation pays dividends.


"Follow the money" is usually the best explanation.

/have you farkied as a cynic.
//have myself farkied as a cynic too
 
2021-09-17 12:25:42 PM  
It's worse than we imagined:

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-17 12:25:48 PM  

Palined Parenthood: Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!

For fark's sake, guys, it's rein


No it's rain.
 
2021-09-17 12:26:39 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Palined Parenthood: Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!

For fark's sake, guys, it's rein

No it's rain.


No it's Becky.
 
2021-09-17 12:27:07 PM  

Kazan: SolderGlob: So, Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot yet again.

/how many investigations into Trump's antics did we get from the GOP?

Or they expect to be able to squarely lay the blame on Trump and Bush... which would be accurate.


Sure. But that's not going to lose the GOP any voters because, well, the just don't care how bad their Presidents are as long as they're not a Democrat. 

It will cost Democrats voters because if it's found out that Joe made any little mistake the right will blow it out of proportion and attack him, as well as the rest of the party relentlessly over it. The MSM will ask about "both sides" and Democratic approval ratings will drop. 

We live in a post-fact world now. Best to understand that before putting your own people at risk.
 
2021-09-17 12:28:05 PM  

whidbey: Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!

Yeah, a multi-billion dollar political party which represents the majority of the country.

They're so helpless.


He'll just retire. He came out of retirement to take the seat in the first place.
 
2021-09-17 12:28:12 PM  

Ivo Shandor: koder: It "went wrong" when we knew Saudi Arabia attacked us but instead we invaded Afghanistan.

Bin Laden and friends were hanging out there at the time. If the exercise had been framed as international law enforcement, it would have been reasonable. Consider: the US, with full NATO support, says "we are going to arrest this particular group of assholes and put them on trial for 9/11. Once we have them in a cell, we are going home. You can help to hand them over or you can be on the receiving end of an unlimited weapons budget". Keep the focus on that one specific objective. Do not bring in any "holy crusade", "nation building", "good vs. evil", or similar. Absolutely do not make the troops fark off into an unrelated country on an unrelated mission to capture Colin Powell's magical anthrax factories. Go in, get the job done, go home, and leave with a parting message of "don't do that again".

Then as a longer-term response, go full Jimmy Carter on making oil obsolete. Put 20 years worth of military budget into R&D for carbon-free energy production instead. Make Saudi Arabia irrelevant on the global stage, unless they want to sell some of their sand to a solar panel manufacturer.



I "regert" to say "I only have one "smrt" to give this"

Easy Peasy Federal Investigation:
1. Establish your findings before investigating
2. Investigate only stuff that supports your findings
3. Have Tom Hanks announce and endorse your findings
4. Spend at least 40 million include a couple of mil to the guy what just suggested this, whoever that might be.
 
2021-09-17 12:29:32 PM  
They're going to have to squarely face the fact that a lot of what went wrong wasn't our fault. The withdrawal was predicated on the Afghan Army offering at least token resistance to the Taliban as they began their predicted sweep across the country, and they didn't even do that.

As to why THAT happened, they're going to have to squarely face the fact that our military "intelligence" was faulty or flat-out lies, intended to make everyone from Trump on down happy for the last four years as things ticked inevitably toward a withdrawal that the drooling non-entity promised, rather than the truth, which was that not only was the Afghan Army completely unprepared to "stand up" as America stepped down, they were stealing everything that wasn't red hot or nailed down and funneling it out the back gate to the Taliban just as fast as they could.

When the goal is to stroke the ego of a fat slobbering narcissist and cover up twenty years' worth of lies and malfeasance instead of prepare for a military withdrawal in good order from a hostile country, bad things will happen; and really the withdrawal went off more smoothly and with fewer casualties than one might have expected under the circumstances.
 
2021-09-17 12:30:17 PM  

Grungehamster: It's worse than we imagined:

[pbs.twimg.com image 850x478]
[pbs.twimg.com image 850x478]


Are you serious?

He's really stealing that goddamn garbage from the Iranian Hostage Crisis?

I'll bet his pal Ollie north suggested that.

Assholes all of them

tse3.mm.bing.netView Full Size
 
2021-09-17 12:39:20 PM  

SolderGlob: Kazan: whidbey: Kazan: Palined Parenthood: whidbey: They need to be investigating Joe Manchin.

BERNIE LOST AND AOC ONLY REPRESENTS A TINY DISTRICT


Some people really really just don't understand that Manchin is the only Democrat that will ever get elected in WV. he's survived attempts to be primaried from the left.  When he dies a republican will take his place.

WV is "Ayn Rand True Belivers and White Supremacists" land

I get it just fine.   It has nothing to do with insisting the Democrats reign one of their own.

Hell, they did it with Franken and he probably wasn't even guilty.

You're delusional if you think they have any leverage to reign him in, that's the problem.  How do you think they have any ability to do that? they push to hard and he just switches parties and the Republicans have control?

What leverage do you think they have?!

He's already said he has no intention of switching parties.



He would have zero power and influence as a Republican.
 
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