Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(gCaptain)   The logjam at the Port of Los Angeles now has enough containers to cross half the US. Which is, like, many many many Rhode Islands   (gcaptain.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Containerization, Cargo, San Pedro Bay, Long Beach, California, Ship, neighboring ports of Los Angeles, number of container ships, Brendan Murray  
•       •       •

987 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Sep 2021 at 4:05 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



25 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-09-17 4:09:24 PM  
f4.bcbits.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-17 4:31:04 PM  
Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.
 
2021-09-17 4:46:00 PM  

sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.


But our stock price!!!!
 
2021-09-17 5:40:10 PM  

sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.


oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition
 
2021-09-17 5:48:22 PM  
You may want to start your holiday shopping now. If you really want something, buy it as soon as you see it on the shelf. You may not see it on the shelf in December.
 
2021-09-17 5:52:33 PM  

lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition


The part about the U.S.not having a manufacturing base is spot on, regardless of the wages part.
 
2021-09-17 6:14:27 PM  

DRTFA: lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition

The part about the U.S.not having a manufacturing base is spot on, regardless of the wages part.


To be fair, what manufacturing base we DID have got incredibly farking lazy.

There's a reason over half of my previous employers are out of business. They heard concepts like LEAN, 5S, Kanban, Kaizen, etc. and laughed at them. They'd been doing things the same way for 20+ years and there'd never be a reason to change.

Now we've been making a comeback. We've taken many of the LEAN concepts that were developed in Japan and Korea and improved upon them, and were it not for the Covid-19 idiocy we'd still be taking stuff back from China hand-over-fist. Manufacturing that would normally only be the purview of places like Taiwan, China, and the Philippines is making its way back here such as electronics and PCB manufacturing and even lithography processes. Claiming that the fall of the American manufacturing base revolved completely around wages is a little bit disingenuous. That's maybe 1/3 of the reason. Laziness and ineffective supply chain management is the other 2/3.
 
2021-09-17 6:56:09 PM  

sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.


On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.
 
2021-09-17 7:18:45 PM  

zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.


Bull. Manufacturing costs are a minuscule percentage of cost of most goods.  Often the cost of shipping is higher than the labor.  The catch being that you can't get away with some of the shady manufacturing practices in the U.S. that you can get away with there (e.g. lead painted toys because the paint is cheaper).
 
2021-09-17 7:19:22 PM  

zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.


Or back here to the US.

Automation has put a very significant dent in our labor costs, and with the latest breakthroughs in technology it isn't hard at all to be so clean as to be a negative offset contributor.

The first place I got my start as a QE was a PCB manufacturer. Yes, we dealt with lead solder, pre-ROHS military stuff. We put out cleaner water than the local drinking water processing centers. We also dealt with chromium, platinum, carbon-fiber, etc.. Believe it or not plating exotic or rare metals is just as nasty as dealing with lead solder.
 
2021-09-17 7:37:45 PM  

OrionXVI: zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.

Bull. Manufacturing costs are a minuscule percentage of cost of most goods.  Often the cost of shipping is higher than the labor.  The catch being that you can't get away with some of the shady manufacturing practices in the U.S. that you can get away with there (e.g. lead painted toys because the paint is cheaper).


Manufacturing margins are also terrible.  If you're building a product to spec the *only* thing you can do to compete with other contract manufacturers is cost-reduce.

For specialty goods or even things like cars there might be other considerations but building a zillion iGizmos is a game of shaving pennies.
 
2021-09-17 7:39:00 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.

Or back here to the US.

Automation has put a very significant dent in our labor costs, and with the latest breakthroughs in technology it isn't hard at all to be so clean as to be a negative offset contributor.

The first place I got my start as a QE was a PCB manufacturer. Yes, we dealt with lead solder, pre-ROHS military stuff. We put out cleaner water than the local drinking water processing centers. We also dealt with chromium, platinum, carbon-fiber, etc.. Believe it or not plating exotic or rare metals is just as nasty as dealing with lead solder.


Intel had a fab plant in Livermore CA and was shut down in 1990. The building still stands and it's still empty due to it being a superfund-type site. No one wants to touch it.

http://www.elivermore.com/photos/inte​l​_fab3.htm
 
2021-09-17 8:00:43 PM  

OrionXVI: zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.

Bull. Manufacturing costs are a minuscule percentage of cost of most goods.  Often the cost of shipping is higher than the labor.  The catch being that you can't get away with some of the shady manufacturing practices in the U.S. that you can get away with there (e.g. lead painted toys because the paint is cheaper).


In some instances sure that's true (like fast food), in others, not so much (and it's not just the labor of the hands putting the product together, but also the labor of the transportation and materials, in some cases being cheaper to transport across the ocean than across the country), and the phenomenon I mentioned regarding China shows it. As noted by another poster, automation is also playing a role in displacing workers entirely. And yes, shady manufacturing does have something to do with it, as I noted above about factories.
 
2021-09-17 8:36:05 PM  

saturn badger: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: zbtop: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

On the one hand, sure, there's an argument to be made for that.

On the other hand, when labor costs are an order of magnitude higher, and nobody in the US wants big gross factories spewing who knows what into the air in their back yard, and the world grows more globalized, industrialized, and interconnected, that point of viability has long since come and gone.

This is starting to affect China in the same way as the US too, as their development continues, we are seeing industries that used to operate out of there moving to places like Bangladesh and Vietnam.

Or back here to the US.

Automation has put a very significant dent in our labor costs, and with the latest breakthroughs in technology it isn't hard at all to be so clean as to be a negative offset contributor.

The first place I got my start as a QE was a PCB manufacturer. Yes, we dealt with lead solder, pre-ROHS military stuff. We put out cleaner water than the local drinking water processing centers. We also dealt with chromium, platinum, carbon-fiber, etc.. Believe it or not plating exotic or rare metals is just as nasty as dealing with lead solder.

Intel had a fab plant in Livermore CA and was shut down in 1990. The building still stands and it's still empty due to it being a superfund-type site. No one wants to touch it.

http://www.elivermore.com/photos/intel​_fab3.htm


A building whose groundwork was laid even before the creation of the EPA and had just started handling some of the first lithography processes not even 2 years after the creation of the EPA. Before we knew about problems with certain rare earths, acids, etc..

If you haven't had to deal with the EPA in the past 2 decades, give it a try sometime. If you think OSHA inspectors had their senses of humor surgically removed, these guys make USSS agents look like comedians.

As I said, there are already new lithography fab plants coming to the US. One of them even planned to handle the next 2 generations of lithography processes (down to ~3nm).

And automation is significantly reducing labor costs in the US. Not necessarily by replacing workers (although in menial labor jobs that is certainly the case) but by greatly increasing the throughput and production capability of already existing workers.

Even in places where I've seen Fanuc arms completely replace a task (say loading and unloading a machine), it didn't replace the worker, it freed him/her up to focus on value-add. Like deburring and inspecting the part, making offsets to keep the part dimensions nominal, performing light assembly, and entering pertinent information into whatever SPC system they're using. The result is higher production numbers with less scrap and NCM and overall better fit, finish, and quality.

It's not your average machinist or electrical harness assembler that's going to be replaced by robots in the near future, it's your average truck and forklift driver.
 
2021-09-17 9:00:57 PM  

lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition


They lost because they screwed Sony hard with the proposed CD add-on to the SNES.
 
2021-09-17 9:20:28 PM  

Mad_Radhu: lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition

They lost because they screwed Sony hard with the proposed CD add-on to the SNES.


What have they lost? They're the most profitable company with a console on the market. The Switch has nearly sold 90 Million units. It's likely to outsell both the PS2 and PS4 (not combined, mind you). Which they do not take a loss on. They might not be selling $600 consoles at a loss to try and make it up on licensing later, but they're definitely making the most money with the least investment.

Nintendo's console shops are also the most successful console-based marketplaces. Ever. 3DS, Wii, Switch, have more sales just online than the XBOne had total. I wouldn't exactly call that a loss. Especially when they never lose money on hardware.
 
2021-09-17 9:32:08 PM  
The backlog is spilling over into Santa Monica Bay. Usually the ships wait south of Long Beach, but this morning looking out I saw this humongous container ship chilling out just north of Palos Verdes. Looked like an alien ship on the horizon.
 
2021-09-17 9:53:28 PM  
"According to Hong Kong-based Freightos, Things are dangerously cheesy"
 
2021-09-17 10:58:24 PM  
This is perhaps the weirdest economic situation. There's billions upon billions tied up in transport, and the finance is split between buyers, sellers, and financiers. It's mostly going to sell or be used to make other things, once it works into the system.
 
2021-09-18 12:38:08 AM  

sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?


Fixing the cable?
 
2021-09-18 2:19:32 AM  

DRTFA: lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition

The part about the U.S.not having a manufacturing base is spot on, regardless of the wages part.


The US has a massive manufacturing base. It makes a large fraction of the most sophisticated, complex and accurately-machined parts in the entire world. The US is also where the machines that can repeatably and reliably cut with accuracies less than 1/10000" - that most *other* advanced manufacturing bases use - are themselves made.

It is *not*, however, where the cheap shiat you buy at WalMart is made, nor does it employ 15000 men in a single factory any more. And this had led to the idea that the US "has no manufacturing base."

One problematic area where the death us US manufacturing is real, however, is in heavy industry...
 
2021-09-18 7:31:13 AM  
I'm about to run out of stuff.
 
2021-09-18 9:31:09 AM  

erik-k: DRTFA: lifeslammer: sinner4ever: Do you know what could have prevented this?

Having a manufacturing base in the U.S. would have prevented that but then you would have to pay a living wage and give back to the community.

oh fark off with this shiat. The US was the only country in WW2 that didnt have its infrastructure blown to hell. That was THE ONE AND ONLY REASON for the rise of US manufacturing dominance. Once everyone else got back on their feet of course it was going to fall

The modern analogy of your stupidity is like saying that nintendo lost the console race when they were kings in the nintendo/super era because they didnt pay people enough money. They lost because they got lazy with no competition

The part about the U.S.not having a manufacturing base is spot on, regardless of the wages part.

The US has a massive manufacturing base. It makes a large fraction of the most sophisticated, complex and accurately-machined parts in the entire world. The US is also where the machines that can repeatably and reliably cut with accuracies less than 1/10000" - that most *other* advanced manufacturing bases use - are themselves made.

It is *not*, however, where the cheap shiat you buy at WalMart is made, nor does it employ 15000 men in a single factory any more. And this had led to the idea that the US "has no manufacturing base."

One problematic area where the death us US manufacturing is real, however, is in heavy industry...


Japan, actually.

We do have the largest user base, however.

Ain't half of the shiat I made getting done by a HAAS, that much I can guarantee you.
 
2021-09-18 12:22:47 PM  
Do that's where all the video cards are.
 
2021-09-18 2:47:37 PM  
I saw a lot of them moored offshore flying out of SNA on Thursday.

Problem is rail lines coming out of the port are jammed to capacity already and they can't wrangle any more trucks so expect this (and random shortages associated with this logjam) to continue through peak into next spring.
 
Displayed 25 of 25 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.