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(Comic Book)   Well, he's not wrong   (comicbook.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Film director, Film, Dunedirector Denis Villeneuve, vicious cycle, superhero movies, later interviews, Martin Scorsese's frequent comments, Marvel Cinematic Universe movies  
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2084 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 16 Sep 2021 at 6:05 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-16 4:17:43 PM  
I enjoyed Arrival. Nice flix.
 
2021-09-16 6:09:47 PM  

solokumba: I enjoyed Arrival. Nice flix.


Me too. I also enjoyed Endgame. They can both exist, and they can both be good.

(NOTE: this is not aimed at your comment, just a note about DV's critique)
 
2021-09-16 6:17:17 PM  

The Silver Mullet: solokumba: I enjoyed Arrival. Nice flix.

Me too. I also enjoyed Endgame. They can both exist, and they can both be good.

(NOTE: this is not aimed at your comment, just a note about DV's critique)


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-16 6:20:00 PM  

The Silver Mullet: solokumba: I enjoyed Arrival. Nice flix.

Me too. I also enjoyed Endgame. They can both exist, and they can both be good.

(NOTE: this is not aimed at your comment, just a note about DV's critique)


I enjoy all types of movies. Mostly on my couch. Marvel movies are fun to watch, but I won't see them at a theater.
Arrival I saw at the theater and was happy I did. Me and the six other people.
 
2021-09-16 6:35:40 PM  
I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.
 
2021-09-16 6:40:34 PM  

rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.


In comic books?
 
2021-09-16 6:44:50 PM  
Are Marvel movies entertaining? Yeah. Are they good movies? Maybe in spots. The tropes were still almost novel for Iron Man one, but since? Amusement-park rides, basically. I liked the source material when I was a kid (and they cost 12¢ a pop), but they seem to lack any real sense of consequence. Defend them if you want to. I'll leave you alone.
 
2021-09-16 6:48:04 PM  
I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN TRAILER
Youtube G7ouC--Yr2E
 
2021-09-16 6:48:20 PM  

solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?


I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?
 
2021-09-16 7:08:41 PM  
Imagine thinking that Tiny Iron Man and Magic Iron Man were essentially the same movie as Iron Man.
 
2021-09-16 7:13:03 PM  

rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?


That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.
 
2021-09-16 7:20:32 PM  
Marvel does have a standard of quality more or less consistent across their movies and as such this is not a criticism as much as an observation.  It's not a bad thing but is a thing.
 
2021-09-16 7:44:19 PM  

solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?

That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.


Of course, it also got a sequel
 
2021-09-16 7:46:54 PM  

solokumba: I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/G7ouC--Y​r2E]


You are mistaken. Do you know why? BECAUSE THERE'S A SEQUEL.

Return to Frogtown Trailer 1992 - Hell Comes to Frogtown Sequel
Youtube dZuVCE-Xk1I
 
2021-09-16 7:49:16 PM  

solokumba: I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/G7ouC--Y​r2E]


I already had you tagged as "Hell Comes to Frogtown Guy" and glad to see you follow through :D
 
2021-09-16 7:51:04 PM  

Unreasonable: solokumba: I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/G7ouC--Y​r2E]

You are mistaken. Do you know why? BECAUSE THERE'S A SEQUEL.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/dZuVCE-X​k1I]


Like Jaws 2 was good.
 
2021-09-16 7:55:04 PM  

Night Night Cream Puff: solokumba: I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/G7ouC--Y​r2E]

I already had you tagged as "Hell Comes to Frogtown Guy" and glad to see you follow through :D


Compliments will get you a Total Fark.
 
2021-09-16 7:56:57 PM  

rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.


Ask the people who buy comic books.
It's the same thing, yet they continue to buy them.
 
2021-09-16 8:17:22 PM  

solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?

That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.


We are talking about MCU movies. I really don't understand what part you are missing.

The comics are a different medium, with longer timeframes available.

We are talking about MCU movies.
 
2021-09-16 8:21:13 PM  
They're pretty much unwatchably boring to me. So, I pretty much agree with Villeneuve.  Within a couple years of being purchased by the mouse, I knew there wouldn't be anything worth seeing there, and mostly I've been right.  Guardians 1 was fun and so was Thor 3, but everything else either undermines itself or is the same plot beats over and over again.
 
2021-09-16 8:24:58 PM  

rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?

That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.

We are talking about MCU movies. I really don't understand what part you are missing.

The comics are a different medium, with longer timeframes available.

We are talking about MCU movies.


I love spaghetti westerns. What part are you missing?
 
2021-09-16 8:28:36 PM  
I'd imagine one of his issues is that he has to hear from the studio heads going on and on about how the latest Marvel movie (with its built-in Marvel fanboi fanbase) made $500m* in a weekend and his movie "only" made $250m* in a month. That raising of expectations to unrealistic levels would wear on people not involved with the MCU.

/* total ass-pull of a number; have no clue what the typical MCU film makes in its opening weekend
 
2021-09-16 8:34:03 PM  

solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?

That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.

We are talking about MCU movies. I really don't understand what part you are missing.

The comics are a different medium, with longer timeframes available.

We are talking about MCU movies.

I love spaghetti westerns. What part are you missing?


The part where you get ignored.
 
2021-09-16 8:41:35 PM  

rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: solokumba: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

In comic books?

I specifically mentioned movies three times, what's your point?

That maybe... the movies are based on comic books... that have been doing the same thing... again and again and again.

Where as HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN is an original script. The perfect movie for the price it cost to make.

We are talking about MCU movies. I really don't understand what part you are missing.

The comics are a different medium, with longer timeframes available.

We are talking about MCU movies.

I love spaghetti westerns. What part are you missing?

The part where you get ignored.


Oh wait. Were we talking about comic book movies. Movies about comic books. What do you want? Super heros to become tax accountants, referees at baseball games, I don't know. You tell me.
 
2021-09-16 8:41:59 PM  

germ78: I'd imagine one of his issues is that he has to hear from the studio heads going on and on about how the latest Marvel movie (with its built-in Marvel fanboi fanbase) made $500m* in a weekend and his movie "only" made $250m* in a month. That raising of expectations to unrealistic levels would wear on people not involved with the MCU.

/* total ass-pull of a number; have no clue what the typical MCU film makes in its opening weekend


No doubt MCU movies have been and will continue to be fantastic money makers. Most of them are vastly entertaining and for me, at worst, were just meh.

The highly formulaic methods these movies are spun out now is wearing thin. Personally now that the Avengers Endgame story has been told I'm really not highly motivated to watch any of the future ones. I'm just burned out on the formula.

It's pretty much the same thing that happened with The Walking Dead series. Once I realized after the second season or so that every story line was going to be the same: gang finds new place, someone makes dumb choices, walkers eat people, one of them being a major character.
 
2021-09-16 8:46:11 PM  

rummonkey: germ78: I'd imagine one of his issues is that he has to hear from the studio heads going on and on about how the latest Marvel movie (with its built-in Marvel fanboi fanbase) made $500m* in a weekend and his movie "only" made $250m* in a month. That raising of expectations to unrealistic levels would wear on people not involved with the MCU.

/* total ass-pull of a number; have no clue what the typical MCU film makes in its opening weekend

No doubt MCU movies have been and will continue to be fantastic money makers. Most of them are vastly entertaining and for me, at worst, were just meh.

The highly formulaic methods these movies are spun out now is wearing thin. Personally now that the Avengers Endgame story has been told I'm really not highly motivated to watch any of the future ones. I'm just burned out on the formula.

It's pretty much the same thing that happened with The Walking Dead series. Once I realized after the second season or so that every story line was going to be the same: gang finds new place, someone makes dumb choices, walkers eat people, one of them being a major character.


I enjoyed WandaVision. I enjoyed Loki. I'm looking forward to Strange just because of the WandaVision and Loki setups.
 
2021-09-16 8:49:49 PM  

rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.


I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.
 
2021-09-16 9:00:44 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

It's hard to compete against a successful formula. But spice... uh... finds a way to flow.
 
2021-09-16 9:05:09 PM  

Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.


Well, since the Dune source material is a deconstruction of the idea of the hero and a warning about the damage a hero can cause to its people it's not an unfair observation.
 
2021-09-16 9:22:38 PM  
Part of the issue is that the pool of resources used to make movies are not infinite and the people & resources that get locked into the MCU are necessarily not making other movies while they're crapping out a seventh take on Spiderman's origins. Let's take someone like Oscar Isaac who has gotten to where he is by doing a lot nuanced character work & as a reward has earned a repeated role as an entirely lifeless character in the Star Wars franchise and will soon be making his debut as an 80s mimeograph of Batman.
 
2021-09-16 9:23:56 PM  

rummonkey: Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.

Well, since the Dune source material is a deconstruction of the idea of the hero and a warning about the damage a hero can cause to its people it's not an unfair observation.


Dont get me wrong, I loved his movie Arrival, but this just seemed to me like kind of a glass houses situation considering that his new movie can hardly be considered original.
 
2021-09-16 9:35:43 PM  
Yes, Marvel movies are a little more formulaic than the norm.  They're also working.

There's room in the world for mass-market escapist entertainment as well as more thoughtful stuff.  biatching about it because you prefer the kind that doesn't make money and you want the money isn't a good look.

If you want the money badly enough... "sell out".  Just for a movie or two, until your wallet is happy, then go back to the ones that make your inner artist happy.  It's OK.
 
2021-09-16 9:36:54 PM  

Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.

Well, since the Dune source material is a deconstruction of the idea of the hero and a warning about the damage a hero can cause to its people it's not an unfair observation.

Dont get me wrong, I loved his movie Arrival, but this just seemed to me like kind of a glass houses situation considering that his new movie can hardly be considered original.


A good version of Dune that stays true to the source material is highly original.

Never been done before.
 
2021-09-16 9:44:40 PM  

Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.

Well, since the Dune source material is a deconstruction of the idea of the hero and a warning about the damage a hero can cause to its people it's not an unfair observation.

Dont get me wrong, I loved his movie Arrival, but this just seemed to me like kind of a glass houses situation considering that his new movie can hardly be considered original.


No one is saying its original, it's an adaptation of another. The point he is trying to make is that too many movies follow a cookie cutter pattern of moviemaking. The point he explicitly made is that the MCU movies in particular thrive on the same formula from movie to movie.

He never said they're bad.

I don't see very much cookie cutter movie making from what I have seen in this movie so far.
 
2021-09-16 9:47:20 PM  

BullBearMS: Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: Dr. Nightmare: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

I'd guess a long time, considering that the Hero's Journey has been around since people began telling each other stories. Hell, Gilgamesh, Beowulf and Odysseus are basically superheroes in lyric form.

I find it amusing that DV brings up criticism of "copypasta" cinema while trying to drum up interest in his new movie based on a 55-year-old novel that's already been filmed twice before.

Well, since the Dune source material is a deconstruction of the idea of the hero and a warning about the damage a hero can cause to its people it's not an unfair observation.

Dont get me wrong, I loved his movie Arrival, but this just seemed to me like kind of a glass houses situation considering that his new movie can hardly be considered original.

A good version of Dune that stays true to the source material is highly original.

Never been done before.


Having read the book, I wouldn't bet money on this one doing it either. I really think Stephen King learned all he knew about randomly inserting ridiculously long digressions into his prose from reading Frank Herbert.  My God, that man needed an editor.
 
2021-09-16 10:01:03 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Ask the people who buy comic books.
It's the same thing, yet they continue to buy them


Honestly, comics tend to be a lot more inventive and experimental, even the mainstream ones, than what the MCU is doing.

solokumba: Super heros to become tax accountants, referees at baseball games


I mean, that sounds interesting. I'm open to exploring that.

In any case, film is a business, and it's a very faddy business. Nobody farking knows how to make money at it, nobody has ever figured that out, not consistently, it's like a casino. And when somebody's on a hot streak, everybody just... does that. It's why Westerns were so dominant in the 50s. It's why action flicks dominated the 80s. It's why after Star Wars everybody tried to churn out a space opera. Today, the MCU is on a hot streak that we haven't seen the likes of before, and thus everything is superheros, and the Disney machine is churning these movies out.

And like every other fad, this one'll burn itself out. It's not there yet, but it's coming. And it's fine- people are still making good, interesting movies. Disney will keep churning out acceptable superhero shiat as long as it makes money.
 
2021-09-16 10:15:25 PM  
It's OK to not enjoy MCU movies. They aren't exactly deep. The series get darker and more complicated, but that's because they have time to get into the material. The movies are popcorn fare. And they're fun. Thing is: you can watch goofy sh*t that's fun, and still like other things too.

This smells less like criticism than drumming up press for the release.
 
2021-09-16 10:19:32 PM  

rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-16 10:33:32 PM  

Dr. Nightmare: "copypasta" cinema


You are correct.

"cut and paste" blockbusters

No, cut means it disappears from the source.  Copy means it exists now in both places.

IT'S COPY AND PASTE YOU IDIOT BASTARDS
 
2021-09-16 11:18:05 PM  
I'd rather MCU be a thing than it being 2007 again and blockbusters are Michael Bay garbage. I'm glad that guy got eaten by rabid hermit crabs.
 
2021-09-16 11:36:24 PM  
He's not totally right, either subby. Yeah, the MCU is highly interconnected. But there are entries that show that it's more than just 'copy and paste'. Winter Soldier was a throwback political espionage thriller. Guardians of the Galaxy is irreverent Space Opera. Ant Man was a heist film. Black Panther was AfroFuturism at it's finest.  And so on and so forth.

Also, as much as I like DV's films, he's not perfect. As good as Arrival was, it was a bog-standard time travel story at it's heart that any sci-fi fan figured out the 'surprise' ending to, 15 minutes into the film. Still good, but the very definition of copy and paste.
 
2021-09-17 12:17:36 AM  
BR2049 in theaters was a must. The original is my favorite film of all time and I was very happy with the end product. Ridley would have Prometheus'd it if he was directing.
 
2021-09-17 1:20:11 AM  

solokumba: I'll just leave the best action adventure movie ever made right here.

[YouTube video: HELL COMES TO FROGTOWN TRAILER]


This!  Right here...cinematic gold.

/"This man is carrying a 'loaded weapon', and Medtech on a provisional government authority now claims it."
//"I gotta tell you, you are one weird dude."
 
2021-09-17 1:50:10 AM  

rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.


The hero's journey has been around as long as human beings have been telling stories. It's going to be around as long as we keep telling stories.

Complaining that it underlies a story is like complaining you have to breathe to stay alive. Dislike it all you want, but your dislike doesn't change the facts.

We've know since the ancient greeks there are really only two basic stories, your hero succeeds and it's a comedy, they fail and it's a tragedy.

Everything else is window dressing. It's the execution of the window dressing, the acting, the characterization, the setting, the mixing up a survival plot with a romance, that distinguishes one story from another.

Marvel are masters of getting the window dressing very specifically right. Giving us content so good people who hate fun have to resort to pointing out the stupidly obvious things like "Every Marvel movie has a hero's journey in it."

Never mind that every movie ever has the hero's journey in them.
 
2021-09-17 2:00:58 AM  

Boudyro: Never mind that every movie ever has the hero's journey in them.


Really? Who's the hero in Godfrey Reggio's Quatsi trilogy?
 
2021-09-17 2:22:57 AM  

Boudyro: Marvel are masters of getting the window dressing very specifically right. Giving us content so good people who hate fun have to resort to pointing out the stupidly obvious things like "Every Marvel movie has a hero's journey in it."

Never mind that every movie ever has the hero's journey in them.


Not every movie has a hero's journey in it. That is just silly talk. Or would you say 12 Angry Men has a hero's journey? Or The Father?

There is also a whole lot to go into that Marvel is doing that make the movies bad. The writing has most definitely gone down hill over the years.
 
2021-09-17 4:49:47 AM  

Boudyro: rummonkey: I enjoyed most of the Marvel movies, but he definitely has a point. After 20 movies we have definitely seen a pattern emerge.

Audience is introduced to Hero powers, where the powers come from doesn't matter at this time.

Audience is introduced to antagonist with comparable power level. Fight ensues where hero his defeated or at least challenged. Hero has crisis of identity or morality due to new powers.

Moment of clarity / training montage / some form of overcoming crisis of identity for new hero.

Hero meets villain again and defeats them, killing them if they aren't viable for a sequel.

The movies are good, but how many times can we watch the Heroes Journey played out again and again and again.

The hero's journey has been around as long as human beings have been telling stories. It's going to be around as long as we keep telling stories.

Complaining that it underlies a story is like complaining you have to breathe to stay alive. Dislike it all you want, but your dislike doesn't change the facts.

We've know since the ancient greeks there are really only two basic stories, your hero succeeds and it's a comedy, they fail and it's a tragedy.

Everything else is window dressing. It's the execution of the window dressing, the acting, the characterization, the setting, the mixing up a survival plot with a romance, that distinguishes one story from another.

Marvel are masters of getting the window dressing very specifically right. Giving us content so good people who hate fun have to resort to pointing out the stupidly obvious things like "Every Marvel movie has a hero's journey in it."

Never mind that every movie ever has the hero's journey in them.


You are ignoring the points of the original article. It's not so much that there is a hero's journey, no shiat there's a hero's journey That's the basis of almost every story written.

The observations made at the interview is that the movies in the MCU have become cookie cutter affairs. Aside from thematic changes it helped to denote the different heroes in each of their own movies, the struggle is the same down to the same predictable plot points.

Ragnarok stirred that up a bit and change things around and that was a nice breath of fresh air. One of the main reasons I think Captain Marvel fell flat is that the formula has become so expected and predictable that's when the audience sees it they just lose their investment in the story.
 
2021-09-17 6:18:35 AM  
I know I'm a person of small character if I prefer to watch a film about
a guy in a metal suit flying around after testing it, rather than an obese
flatulent guy flying around after getting his pimples popped.
 
2021-09-17 6:21:46 AM  
They're called tropes, and they're used in all genres.  Sports movies, science fiction, westerns, gangster movies -- most of them are fairly predictable from beginning to end, and follow the same structures over and over again.

This is just another Scorsese-type complaint, criticizing something that's popular with the masses.
 
2021-09-17 7:38:48 AM  

Boudyro: The hero's journey has been around as long as human beings have been telling stories. It's going to be around as long as we keep telling stories.


Counterpoint: the hero's journey was invented by Joseph Campbell by taking cherry-picked examples, and has become the default analytical tool for analyzing modern fiction because of its veneer of history, while actual historians actually think it's arrant bullshiat.

hubiestubert: And they're fun.


I mean, people clearly think so. And when it was novel, they were fun. But boy, they got tedious. Especially Avengers movies- the first two Avenger's movies were emphatically not fun, and basically felt like homework. I haven't seen any of the others. And Civil War? Yikes, a slog that ends with a final fight that is also a slog. I wish the MCU movies would get goofy, but the goofiest they get is Ragnarok, which was fun, for sure, but still was the least fun thing Waititi ever made.

Honestly, I'd enjoy MCU movies more if a few of them were bad and ill conceived. Gimmie at least the Corman Fantastic Four (which is good, actually, in a terrible way, but it's definitely more fun than the Avengers movies I've watched).
 
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