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(MLive.com)   Presenting exhibit 1,293,647 in "unions shooting themselves in the foot"   (mlive.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Vaccination, Vaccine, Michigan, Immune system, part of the University of Michigan, Michigan Medicine staff members, ANN ARBOR, collective bargaining agreement  
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5936 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Sep 2021 at 8:55 PM (35 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



105 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-09-15 7:27:37 PM  
Wait, I thought the whole point is they were avoiding getting the shot?
 
2021-09-15 8:57:36 PM  
Fark unions.
 
2021-09-15 8:59:44 PM  
all it take is the state to say it and its over anyways.
 
2021-09-15 9:00:20 PM  
There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.
 
2021-09-15 9:01:40 PM  
Given that the majority of people are vaccinated now, it would seem to be trivial for the union to change that to make them mandatory come renewal time.
 
2021-09-15 9:04:03 PM  
Two thoughts:

1) So don't hire people from that union unless they're vaccinated. Does the state require that any institution specifically work with this union?

2) Why the hell is there a clause in their contract that absolves them of vaccine responsibility to begin with?
 
2021-09-15 9:04:12 PM  

Excelsior: Given that the majority of people are vaccinated now, it would seem to be trivial for the union to change that to make them mandatory come renewal time.


Trivial as long as you're not one of their patients, maybe.
 
2021-09-15 9:08:00 PM  
Actually -- if the federal government mandates vaccines for any organization with 100+ employees, it doesn't farking matter what the union contract says -- they don't just get to opt out of federal rules and legislations they don't like.  Any contract clause that goes against the law is null and void.
 
2021-09-15 9:08:11 PM  
This is a whole pile of bureaucracy to unpick.
 
2021-09-15 9:09:39 PM  

Excelsior: Given that the majority of people are vaccinated now, it would seem to be trivial for the union to change that to make them mandatory come renewal time.


You underestimate the self importance of unions.  Their demands can be paraphrased as "...but our members' freedoms!"
 
2021-09-15 9:09:50 PM  
The Fark Alt-white brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of supporting a union other than the porcine variant.
 
2021-09-15 9:09:51 PM  
This is where the government steps in to stay, "your contract provision is void, sincerely, the law."
 
2021-09-15 9:11:21 PM  
Something tells me that vaccine clause will not hold for long in court when the feds ask about what the hospital system is doing... They 100% get federal money too, so it's not just the OSHA thing.
 
2021-09-15 9:11:43 PM  

Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.


Sorry, not in their union contract.
 
2021-09-15 9:13:14 PM  

austerity101: Two thoughts:

1) So don't hire people from that union unless they're vaccinated. Does the state require that any institution specifically work with this union?

2) Why the hell is there a clause in their contract that absolves them of vaccine responsibility to begin with?


You're not allowed to refuse to hire someone because they are part of, or intend to join a union.

Otherwise unions wouldn't exist because nobody wants to be part of the unemployed union.
 
2021-09-15 9:13:53 PM  

Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.


And take a daily covid test and submit to contact tracing.
 
2021-09-15 9:14:40 PM  

Excelsior: Actually -- if the federal government mandates vaccines for any organization with 100+ employees, it doesn't farking matter what the union contract says -- they don't just get to opt out of federal rules and legislations they don't like.  Any contract clause that goes against the law is null and void.


The federal government isn't mandating vaccines. You can simply test weekly, and not bother, or there will undoubtedly be exemptions within the rule when it gets published.
 
2021-09-15 9:16:12 PM  

Monocultured: This is where the government steps in to stay, "your contract provision is void, sincerely, the law."


You misspelled the part about the OSHA rule getting challenged immediately upon publication, with the inevitable rejection by the courts.
 
2021-09-15 9:18:19 PM  
Glad I'm not in need of care in Michigan.
 
2021-09-15 9:19:11 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Fark unions.


I'm not a big fan of unions for many reasons but they are a necessary evil.
 
2021-09-15 9:19:37 PM  

Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.


And pay for those tests
 
2021-09-15 9:20:51 PM  

Mokmo: Something tells me that vaccine clause will not hold for long in court when the feds ask about what the hospital system is doing... They 100% get federal money too, so it's not just the OSHA thing.


The only way I could see this "working" for the union antivaxxers is for the law to end up saying, "Your union contract says you don't have to be vaccinated, but your employer says you do per federal law, so you can be in the union, but you won't find a job."  It maintains their contractual "right" while upholding federal regulations.

But that outcome is silly and unlikely compared to the courts basically telling them their contracts aren't valid.
 
2021-09-15 9:20:53 PM  

Excelsior: Actually -- if the federal government mandates vaccines for any organization with 100+ employees, it doesn't farking matter what the union contract says -- they don't just get to opt out of federal rules and legislations they don't like.  Any contract clause that goes against the law is null and void.


This has not passed yet?  I thought it was a done deal
 
2021-09-15 9:22:52 PM  
But can the police Union force Covid to be vaccinated?
 
2021-09-15 9:24:08 PM  

gar1013: Excelsior: Actually -- if the federal government mandates vaccines for any organization with 100+ employees, it doesn't farking matter what the union contract says -- they don't just get to opt out of federal rules and legislations they don't like.  Any contract clause that goes against the law is null and void.

The federal government isn't mandating vaccines. You can simply test weekly, and not bother, or there will undoubtedly be exemptions within the rule when it gets published.


Mandatory for Healthcare workers at places that receive Medicare, medicade funds.  No opt out, no screenings
The Biden-Harris Administration will require COVID-19 vaccination of staff within all Medicare and Medicaid-certified facilities to protect both them and patients
 
2021-09-15 9:29:55 PM  
I guess they're volunteering for the covid wards?
 
2021-09-15 9:33:14 PM  
Nurses aren't the smartest people.
 
2021-09-15 9:39:21 PM  

Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.


That wasn't in the contract. I thought this place was pro union.
 
2021-09-15 9:42:59 PM  

LineNoise: Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.

That wasn't in the contract. I thought this place was pro union.


Pro union until unions do things they disagree with ... like the police unions.
 
2021-09-15 9:43:11 PM  

Fart And Smunny: The Fark Alt-white brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of supporting a union other than the porcine variant.


The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.
 
2021-09-15 9:44:25 PM  

austerity101: Mokmo: Something tells me that vaccine clause will not hold for long in court when the feds ask about what the hospital system is doing... They 100% get federal money too, so it's not just the OSHA thing.

The only way I could see this "working" for the union antivaxxers is for the law to end up saying, "Your union contract says you don't have to be vaccinated, but your employer says you do per federal law, so you can be in the union, but you won't find a job."  It maintains their contractual "right" while upholding federal regulations.

But that outcome is silly and unlikely compared to the courts basically telling them their contracts aren't valid.


So here is how it worked here. Now granted, our teachers union is basically a kingmaker when it comes to politics, and well, our schools are the minor league for politicians, and like 5% of the actual members of the union run the show.

Basically the school boards told the union to play ball and endorse it and they will make up for it in the next contract. I'm cool with that. I mean more than half my property taxes go to our schools, which are well funded  and our teachers well paid because i'm not in some flyover state, and our teachers did an amazing job last year and deserve it.

As someone who is certainly pro-vaxination, i can respect a hardline union holding its ground on something they didn't previously agree to without negotiating it. That is how unions should work. At the same time i think our teachers union holds shiat back, but that doesn't mean everyone shouldn't play by the rules.
 
2021-09-15 9:45:18 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Fark unions.


F*ck wage slavery.
 
2021-09-15 9:45:35 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Fark unions.


Fark has a union?
 
2021-09-15 9:45:52 PM  

Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.


I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.
 
2021-09-15 9:46:36 PM  

Iczer: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Fark unions.

Fark has a union?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 9:47:33 PM  

LineNoise: austerity101: Mokmo: Something tells me that vaccine clause will not hold for long in court when the feds ask about what the hospital system is doing... They 100% get federal money too, so it's not just the OSHA thing.

The only way I could see this "working" for the union antivaxxers is for the law to end up saying, "Your union contract says you don't have to be vaccinated, but your employer says you do per federal law, so you can be in the union, but you won't find a job."  It maintains their contractual "right" while upholding federal regulations.

But that outcome is silly and unlikely compared to the courts basically telling them their contracts aren't valid.

So here is how it worked here. Now granted, our teachers union is basically a kingmaker when it comes to politics, and well, our schools are the minor league for politicians, and like 5% of the actual members of the union run the show.

Basically the school boards told the union to play ball and endorse it and they will make up for it in the next contract. I'm cool with that. I mean more than half my property taxes go to our schools, which are well funded  and our teachers well paid because i'm not in some flyover state, and our teachers did an amazing job last year and deserve it.

As someone who is certainly pro-vaxination, i can respect a hardline union holding its ground on something they didn't previously agree to without negotiating it. That is how unions should work. At the same time i think our teachers union holds shiat back, but that doesn't mean everyone shouldn't play by the rules.


and here in Maine  shortly after Biden's vaccine mandate the state order all school employees to get the vaccine lets see how the teacher union works that.
 
2021-09-15 9:48:12 PM  

bluejeansonfire: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Fark unions.

F*ck wage slavery.


You think unions are preventing wage slavery?

The BLS reports that on average, in 2019, union workers earned roughly $1,095 per week, while nonunion workers earned closer to $892.

The median union salary is $26/hr. Median non-Union is $23/hr.

Woooo ... go unions and their ... $3/hr benefit for their members. Kek.
 
2021-09-15 9:49:11 PM  

Excelsior: Actually -- if the federal government mandates vaccines for any organization with 100+ employees, it doesn't farking matter what the union contract says -- they don't just get to opt out of federal rules and legislations they don't like.  Any contract clause that goes against the law is null and void.


Correct, union rules cannot supersede actual law.


/Waiting for this nonsense from my co-dummies any day now.
//we lost our first current coworker Sunday to covid
///his wife is in the ICU now.
 
2021-09-15 9:49:29 PM  

LineNoise: Bathtub Cynic: There's a really simple solution to this: any unvaccinated employee must wear a mask at all times, submit to testing each shift, and failure to abide either of those rules is grounds for termination.

That wasn't in the contract. I thought this place was pro union.


The cryptofascists are out in force on Fark tonight.
 
2021-09-15 9:50:17 PM  

jumac: and here in Maine  shortly after Biden's vaccine mandate the state order all school employees to get the vaccine lets see how the teacher union works that.


I mean in all honesty, AND I AM PRO VACCINE, if your union is holding to stuff, it should be a choice or strike, because it wasn't what they agreed to in their contract, and unless they have a clause that covers it, or go through whatever their arbitration is, or the union agrees to a modification, your collective bargaining rights are being trampled.

I mean sure you may agree with it, but does a majority of your union?

PLEASE GET VACCINATED.
 
2021-09-15 9:50:36 PM  
I am all for unions in general--I'm also a member of one.  Having said that, unless laws are written to specifically exempt unions then they take precedent over anything in the contract.  It's one of the reasons that Republicans like to pass laws that are against basic union terms (right to work being one obvious example).
 
2021-09-15 9:51:04 PM  

LineNoise: Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.

I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.


It's been pretty obvious for a while that farkers have zero principles at all and just follow what ever direction the wind blows on any given day.
 
2021-09-15 9:55:15 PM  

LineNoise: jumac: and here in Maine  shortly after Biden's vaccine mandate the state order all school employees to get the vaccine lets see how the teacher union works that.

I mean in all honesty, AND I AM PRO VACCINE, if your union is holding to stuff, it should be a choice or strike, because it wasn't what they agreed to in their contract, and unless they have a clause that covers it, or go through whatever their arbitration is, or the union agrees to a modification, your collective bargaining rights are being trampled.

I mean sure you may agree with it, but does a majority of your union?

PLEASE GET VACCINATED.


Na I don't work for a school.  but the unions make their deal with the school departments in each area not with the state.  so if the state said this is a requirement to work at a school there not much a unions going do bout it.
 
2021-09-15 9:57:17 PM  
The union should be kicking out any members who won't get vaccinated. They're trying to kill the rest of you.
 
2021-09-15 9:58:14 PM  

jumac: Na I don't work for a school.  but the unions make their deal with the school departments in each area not with the state.  so if the state said this is a requirement to work at a school there not much a unions going do bout it.


So lets say some hillbilly state decides they should have confederate appreciation day. Half the class day is dedicated to, Oh, i don't know, making a macaroni statue of Stonewall Jackson.

Obviously its not spelled out in the contract, so should teachers be compelled to honor it? Should the union tell them to shut up because its the law and not stand behind them when a good chunk of their membership (hopefully) says this is a dumb thing to do with class time?
 
2021-09-15 9:58:36 PM  

cefm: The union should be kicking out any members who won't get vaccinated. They're trying to kill the rest of you.


Too bad unions made it nearly impossible to fire anyone.
 
2021-09-15 10:00:50 PM  

LineNoise: Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.

I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.


If you think it is hypocritical to not support 100 percent of what unions do while supporting the concept of inions in general, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were, and that is truly impressive.

Good effort.
 
2021-09-15 10:01:45 PM  

Fart And Smunny: LineNoise: Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.

I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.

If you think it is hypocritical to not support 100 percent of what unions do while supporting the concept of inions in general, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were, and that is truly impressive.

Good effort.


You have fart in your handle.

Mine is what i think is clever wordplay.
 
2021-09-15 10:03:03 PM  

LineNoise: Fart And Smunny: LineNoise: Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.

I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.

If you think it is hypocritical to not support 100 percent of what unions do while supporting the concept of inions in general, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were, and that is truly impressive.

Good effort.

You have fart in your handle.

Mine is what i think is clever wordplay.


Clearly.
 
2021-09-15 10:03:47 PM  

Fart And Smunny: LineNoise: Jeebus Saves: The Fark pro worker brigade are probably having a personal crisis right now over the prospect of having to hate on a union other than a cop union.

I mean my favorite part of covid, not that i have a favorite part, but you know what i mean, has been watching the hypocrisy of this place.

If you think it is hypocritical to not support 100 percent of what unions do while supporting the concept of inions in general, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were, and that is truly impressive.

Good effort.


Just strip the Unions power in just this one instance, right?  It's not like they have much power left, so what's taking a little more from them going to do?
 
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