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(TaxProf)   What's wrong with sex between professors and students? Aside from the obvious   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Rape, Human sexual behavior, Sexual intercourse, Informed consent, Sigmund Freud, Sexual assault, Love, Human sexuality  
•       •       •

5039 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Sep 2021 at 9:20 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



193 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2021-09-15 9:01:36 AM  
messy desks?   ewwwwwww
 
2021-09-15 9:05:27 AM  
Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.
 
2021-09-15 9:08:04 AM  
Old Man Balls.
 
2021-09-15 9:08:55 AM  
If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.
 
2021-09-15 9:16:20 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


If that flirty coed with daddy issues is still interested after they're done with your class/program, go for it. Anytime before that is a big no.
 
2021-09-15 9:22:47 AM  
"Absolutely nothing," says someone who watches too much porn.

/ not me, obviously
/ I don't believe there's such a thing as "too much porn"
 
2021-09-15 9:24:54 AM  
Written by "the tax professor"? No bias there, nope.

Also, your blog sucks, Subby.
 
2021-09-15 9:26:21 AM  
Other than the fact they are *literally* the same age as my kids now?

Yeah they're physically attractive but it's not going to work- even if they were interested in nerdy daddy figures with grey hair I'm not going to be able to get past the age and maturity differences
 
2021-09-15 9:27:49 AM  
The Chair was six episodes and so good, most people binge watched in the space of 24 hours.  Not that Ken Starr's (Bill Clinton's tormentor who went on to justify gang rape) former haunt as a professor isn't suspect, but your blog sucks.  Mentioning The Chair without saying Season Two is coming is just a gratuitous tease.
 
2021-09-15 9:28:35 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


a relationship between a subordinate and a superordinate affects other subordinates (and the superordinate's superordinate), who will naturally and reasonably perceive favoritism
 
2021-09-15 9:28:37 AM  
i.insider.comView Full Size


This guy's naked ass shows up on screen for 5 seconds.  That's what's wrong.
 
2021-09-15 9:28:39 AM  
I don't like sex between students and professors.  It feels too crowded having people on both sides
 
2021-09-15 9:28:46 AM  

LoneCoon: Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.

If that flirty coed with daddy issues is still interested after they're done with your class/program, go for it. Anytime before that is a big no.


I mean, I guess most commonly it's a younger woman with an older man, but I had a SERIOUS crush on one of my teachers (wasn't a full professor, though I think she is now).

She was probably only a few years older than most of us (I was 24ish at the time), smart as hell, and my first day in her class, she completely dismantled an argument I'd made. Like broke it down to its component parts and then burned them all to ash. I took two of her classes, and the only reason I didn't take more is she only taught those two.

// but then she didn't let me write a paper on how Rocky IV ended the Cold War (not a joke)
// every love story has that bog confrontational moment where the pair realizes they won't work, right?
 
2021-09-15 9:28:49 AM  
Even if all acts are consensual and parties are 18 and older...the ethics board would probably recommend parting company with the teacher.
 
2021-09-15 9:28:51 AM  
In my experience people misunderstand how this often plays out in reality.

They think of it as Undergrad student, Tenured Professor.

That's uncommon. It's usually Grad Student, Tenured Professor. This is fairly commonplace.

Which is actually alot worse in some ways. There are hidden rules- Never, Ever date someone if you as a teacher serve on their committee or if as a student they serve on your committee. That's grounds for some serious shiat. And guess what? It still happens.

We had professor sleep with a good looking grad student for a few years, and she was his PhD student. When he screwed her over at her diss defense, she threatened to throw him right under the bus. Not sure how it played out, the other professors/the chair got it behind closed doors about as fast as they could.
 
2021-09-15 9:29:05 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 9:29:28 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


That's precisely the context of the article: a relationship between a professor and a student *in their class*.

Regardless of consent, the power imbalance between teacher and student makes it untenable. How can the student know they're receiving the appropriate amount of attention in the classroom, or that they're being graded fairly? How can the teacher know they're giving the student the appropriate amount of attention in the classroom, or that they're grading them fairly?

Universities I've been affiliated with have rules that don't outright ban faculty/student relationships, but do mandate that the faculty member be removed from a position of grading power over that student. E.g. Penn State: https://policy.psu.edu/policie​s/ad102
 
2021-09-15 9:30:05 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


Well, there is the worry about the student taking the professor for a class in the future, or the class of one of the professor's friends.  It is generally considered - outside of the incel rape-bro professorial crowd - just easier to wait until a student graduates (or, more preferably, to go looking for a partner who isn't a student).  Shiat, I won't even acknowledge an attending student in public, on-or off-campus, current or former, unless they acknowledge me first.  It is just too much of a headache to contemplate having anything but the most Edwardian interactions from an I'm-going-to-have-to-explain-this-to-H​R-and-Legal perspective.  Of the non-idiots I've known who ended up dating a student, they all waited until the student graduated and then descended into Bacchanalian boinking.

It also helps that you grade their work.  "She is too damn hot, but Jesus, that girl is a farking moron."  That being said, peripheral vision is your friend.  And again, knowing a student thinks Sumer is in South America kinda just kills it for anything besides a little side-look.

I still remember walking with my wife when some outrageously hot girl walked by wearing nowhere near enough.  I studiously kept my gaze front and center

Wife "Are you going to look?"
Me "No, I like being alive, thank you very much"
W "Are you going to touch?"
M "No"
W "Then I don't care if you look"
M "Excuse me, I have to look backwards for a bit"
 
2021-09-15 9:30:36 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


That's pretty much it right there. And if the relationship ends in a bad fashion, that just brings up even thornier problems that nobody really wants to deal with.
 
2021-09-15 9:30:54 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 9:31:23 AM  
Meh - if they're adults they can make their own choices.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 9:31:27 AM  
I'm genuinely curious why this is in the Politics tab
 
2021-09-15 9:31:36 AM  

LoneCoon: Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.

If that flirty coed with daddy issues is still interested after they're done with your class/program, go for it. Anytime before that is a big no.


My friend would tell you not even at that point. Too much risk they'll have regrets after the fact because they followed through on their fantasy or daddy issues. Keep in mind this is the guy who has wife that is 22 years younger than he is, and he is many a man's hero because she is reasonably intelligent and not just a showroom model wife.

Single or married, my friend made sure his desk was in full view of the hallway. He also made sure anywhere you could stand or sit was in view of the hallway with some creative organization. He had a very heavy object that propped the door open. When he was in the office the door was propped open, and stayed open. He wasn't in the office the door was shut. No one, student or fellow teacher, was in that office with the door shut.

Some people had an issue with this policy. However the university told them to take a flying leap since it was a policy that applied to everyone regardless of race/creed/color/sexual orientation/et al. no matter the situation.
 
2021-09-15 9:32:06 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.


This one is actually sort of well known and accepted: Transference. It isn't supposed to imply that the psychologist falls in love with you, too.
 
2021-09-15 9:32:22 AM  
I want to add to my comment, higher education is a terrible choice of profession if you want a serious stable relationship. You are basically asking the other person to move around for 10 years and hope you get a good job. And most normal people don't want to move far from family (avg american dies within 50 miles of their birthplace). And dating another academic is basically impossible. If you meet in grad school they are gonna get a job a million miles away from you. God help you if you both study the same subject, you will never be together.

So professors are usually single or divorced. Young people are good looking in virtue of being young. Grad students are young And Smart. Smart people like professors are attracted to other smart people, and everyone likes a good looking 20 something.
 
2021-09-15 9:32:41 AM  
Don't the women have agency and rights?
 
2021-09-15 9:33:24 AM  
Let's say it together:

Just because people did it in the past didn't make it right (then or now)
Just because not everyone who did it had their life ruined didn't make it good
Just because subby wants to do it with their professor doesn't make it a good idea
 
2021-09-15 9:33:56 AM  
So that's why my red hot 10th grade geometry teacher who had graduated 4 months before never came on to me  - she was practicing professional ethics.

Must have been hard on her.

It was hard on me.
 
2021-09-15 9:34:16 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.



Falling in love with our drug dealers, in other words, is a sign that hustling dope has gone pretty well so far.
 
2021-09-15 9:34:54 AM  
I remember the day I saw the middle aged organic chem prof. surrounded by young women and thinking, that can't be a good thing.
 
2021-09-15 9:35:21 AM  
Anyone else think that English needs the distinction in the word 'love' that Latin has?

'Storge', empathy love would be a sign of a successful mentor-student relationship.  'Eros' on the other hand, most definitely not.
 
2021-09-15 9:35:32 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.


I fell in love with my proctologist
 
2021-09-15 9:35:46 AM  

inglixthemad: LoneCoon: Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.

If that flirty coed with daddy issues is still interested after they're done with your class/program, go for it. Anytime before that is a big no.

My friend would tell you not even at that point. Too much risk they'll have regrets after the fact because they followed through on their fantasy or daddy issues. Keep in mind this is the guy who has wife that is 22 years younger than he is, and he is many a man's hero because she is reasonably intelligent and not just a showroom model wife.

Single or married, my friend made sure his desk was in full view of the hallway. He also made sure anywhere you could stand or sit was in view of the hallway with some creative organization. He had a very heavy object that propped the door open. When he was in the office the door was propped open, and stayed open. He wasn't in the office the door was shut. No one, student or fellow teacher, was in that office with the door shut.

Some people had an issue with this policy. However the university told them to take a flying leap since it was a policy that applied to everyone regardless of race/creed/color/sexual orientation/et al. no matter the situation.


I work for a university.  I'm pretty sure any relationship at any point they are students is strictly forbidden.  Regardless of whether they are in your course or not.


Far as I know this extends to both staff and faculty.
 
2021-09-15 9:36:05 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: Other than the fact they are *literally* the same age as my kids now?

Yeah they're physically attractive but it's not going to work- even if they were interested in nerdy daddy figures with grey hair I'm not going to be able to get past the age and maturity differences


I don't think maturity is an issue if a professor is banging their student.  They are obviously emotionally immature.
 
2021-09-15 9:36:21 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: I want to add to my comment, higher education is a terrible choice of profession if you want a serious stable relationship.


You should stick to professions like software engineer or law or medicine or soldier?

/ most professions are shiat on relationships, its the modern catch-22
 
2021-09-15 9:36:27 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.


That quote was a reference to Jane Gallop of the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, who was accused of sexual harrassment by two graduate students and got away with it, then wrote a book about how to do just that and made a whole bunch of money off it.
 
2021-09-15 9:36:50 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: I want to add to my comment, higher education is a terrible choice of profession if you want a serious stable relationship. You are basically asking the other person to move around for 10 years and hope you get a good job. And most normal people don't want to move far from family (avg american dies within 50 miles of their birthplace). And dating another academic is basically impossible. If you meet in grad school they are gonna get a job a million miles away from you. God help you if you both study the same subject, you will never be together.


This. I know several scientist couples dealing with what we call the "Two Body Problem". The way out (short of divorce, or death) appears to become so prominent in your field that a headhunting institution will bend over backwards to fit your significant other in there somewhere too.
 
2021-09-15 9:37:33 AM  
Every single comment here foolishly assumes this happens mostly between undergrads and tenured profs.

Its almost always between Grad students and Tenured Profs.

Source: a doctoral student who has spent alot of time at universities.
 
2021-09-15 9:37:42 AM  

gilatrout: Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.

I fell in love with my proctologist


Two hands on your shoulders. Very professional.
 
2021-09-15 9:38:27 AM  
What is wrong w....what is wrong with it??

Should you not do that? Signs point to "that is depraved."
 
2021-09-15 9:38:57 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: I want to add to my comment, higher education is a terrible choice of profession if you want a serious stable relationship. You are basically asking the other person to move around for 10 years and hope you get a good job. And most normal people don't want to move far from family (avg american dies within 50 miles of their birthplace). And dating another academic is basically impossible. If you meet in grad school they are gonna get a job a million miles away from you. God help you if you both study the same subject, you will never be together.

So professors are usually single or divorced. Young people are good looking in virtue of being young. Grad students are young And Smart. Smart people like professors are attracted to other smart people, and everyone likes a good looking 20 something.


You know where you can go looking?  Other nearby universities, especially if there's a good-sized cluster in your area.  Nothing wrong with an MIT prof dating a Harvard grad student.  Technically, that is.
 
2021-09-15 9:38:59 AM  
doesn't tend to be an undergrad and a professor but a grad student and usually (her) advisor so it becomes a problem.  if he carries her for the nookie at some point she needs to defend her thesis and if she is unprepared then she may not have bought herself much. The few times i've witnessed this happening it has always been in the liberal arts side of campus.  The defending your science base thesis can't be muddled through or hand-waved as easily as art history or (ironically) ethics.   the problem for society at large is  he becomes her main professional reference and it'll be glowing since he doesn't want to piss her off now that she can expose him w/o consequence to herself.

that said if you are willing to sell yourself for a easier time and rapid rise through the ranks you aren't exactly alone.  better people have done worse things for less.
 
2021-09-15 9:39:09 AM  

FrancoFile: [i.insider.com image 623x467]

This guy's naked ass shows up on screen for 5 seconds.  That's what's wrong.



DS bared his butt so many times in movies he must have had a 'mandatory moon' clause in all his contracts.
 
2021-09-15 9:40:05 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: And dating another academic is basically impossible. If you meet in grad school they are gonna get a job a million miles away from you. God help you if you both study the same subject, you will never be together.


Been married to my wife for 21 years.  She's a historian, I'm a historian - our areas of interest even mostly overlap.  Married in grad school.  Teach at the same institution.  She's even my boss (we instituted protocols for any friction in that regard so draconian the university had us explain it to the lawyers three times so they could copy it to make their policies more stringent).  We are also a glaring outlier.
 
2021-09-15 9:41:10 AM  

Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.


Which hopefully anyone over 18 knows, or should be told.
We don't need a book on philosophy that makes Remembrance of Things Past or War and Peace look like a restaurant flyer to communicate this.
 
2021-09-15 9:41:11 AM  

Pocket Ninja: Falling in love with our teachers, in other words, is a sign that pedagogy has gone well."

Huh. Fascinating. Let's try swapping out a few words of that sentence with a some other options to see how it works.

Falling in love with our babysitters, in other words, is a sign that babysitting has gone well.

Falling in love with our managers, in other words, is a sign that supervision has gone well.

Falling in love with our mothers, in other words, is a sign that parenting has gone well.

Falling in love with our sisters, in other words, is a sign that sibling bonding has gone well.

Falling in love with our doctors, in other words, is a sign that the physical has gone well.

Falling in love with our psychologists, in other words, is a sign that counseling has gone well.

Libertarians should have fun with this.


Falling in love with a FARK admin or moderator, in other words, is a sign that you want a free TotalFARK subscription.
 
2021-09-15 9:41:52 AM  
I got an A in my Human Communications class and afterwards banged my professor while helping her with research.

Good times.
 
2021-09-15 9:42:07 AM  

IRestoreFurniture: inglixthemad: LoneCoon: Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.

If that flirty coed with daddy issues is still interested after they're done with your class/program, go for it. Anytime before that is a big no.

My friend would tell you not even at that point. Too much risk they'll have regrets after the fact because they followed through on their fantasy or daddy issues. Keep in mind this is the guy who has wife that is 22 years younger than he is, and he is many a man's hero because she is reasonably intelligent and not just a showroom model wife.

Single or married, my friend made sure his desk was in full view of the hallway. He also made sure anywhere you could stand or sit was in view of the hallway with some creative organization. He had a very heavy object that propped the door open. When he was in the office the door was propped open, and stayed open. He wasn't in the office the door was shut. No one, student or fellow teacher, was in that office with the door shut.

Some people had an issue with this policy. However the university told them to take a flying leap since it was a policy that applied to everyone regardless of race/creed/color/sexual orientation/et al. no matter the situation.

I work for a university.  I'm pretty sure any relationship at any point they are students is strictly forbidden.  Regardless of whether they are in your course or not.


Far as I know this extends to both staff and faculty.


I just checked it, an you are not allowed any relationships with student for which you have a "professional responsibility" to.

That's grey, but grey enough also to just take the stance of "never have any relationships with student, like ever" I guess.
 
2021-09-15 9:42:14 AM  
Ask the homeschooled what's wrong with it.
 
2021-09-15 9:43:31 AM  

Northern: Ambivalence: If the student is in the professor's class or if the professor has a position of power over the student, a sexual relationship may be the result of an abuse of power or compensation for favorable grades.

Otherwise, there's nothing wrong.

Which hopefully anyone over 18 knows, or should be told.
We don't need a book on philosophy that makes Remembrance of Things Past or War and Peace look like a restaurant flyer to communicate this.


What alien species do you belong to?  And how many minutes has it been since you got to Earth?  Because I don't think I've read something so divorced from any and all evidence presented for all of human existence before.
 
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