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(The Takeout)   How to make a tasty burger. Giant one-draw Sprites not included   (thetakeout.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Beef, butcher shop, pro burger flipper, fat content matters, smash ground beef, fattier cuts, grocery store, smash burgers  
•       •       •

854 clicks; posted to Food » on 15 Sep 2021 at 9:05 AM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-09-15 9:13:18 AM  
Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.

/Half inch thick patties
//Or 4oz patties times two if you're going the smash burger route, which is a solid option, assuming you have a flat top or otherwise similar device
 
2021-09-15 9:16:07 AM  
The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?

I didn't make it too far into TFA.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-09-15 9:16:32 AM  
4oz balls* not patties, derp
 
2021-09-15 9:17:53 AM  

151: Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.


This is apparently a series and we're not even out of the store yet. Don't work ahead. We have the whole week to go. So far I've learned to avoid tofu and seitan.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-09-15 9:19:46 AM  

fasahd: 151: Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.

This is apparently a series and we're not even out of the store yet. Don't work ahead. We have the whole week to go. So far I've learned to avoid tofu and seitan.


I didn't watch a second of it. Saw it was a series and noped right out. Take my advice or don't. I'm just saying, try what I said above and you'll probably like it. Or won't. Maybe.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-09-15 9:22:38 AM  
Also thanks for reminding me (via the word "series", my brain works in weird ways) that today is Wu Tang Wednesday and a new episode is out.

/If you're 30+ and ever listened to rap/hip-hop, seriously check it out, it's pretty good.
 
2021-09-15 9:40:50 AM  
Still nursing a grudge against smash burgers because HopCat switched completely over to them, abandoning their previous burger options. The new menu is tasty enough but not the same, and there's no way to order a smash patty anything but well done. Not sayin' rare ground beef is a good idea, but a bit of pink in the middle of a thick pub burger is something to appreciate.

As far as homemade, thick patties win again. Propane means I can grill in just about any weather and there is no smashing to be done on a grill grate. I guess this technique is useful for those poor souls trapped in apartments where burgers have to be cooked indoors.
 
2021-09-15 9:44:43 AM  

McGrits: The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?


Is that not true? I always cook a burger on high heat to sear the first side, then flip it over to sear the other side, and then turn the heat down while it cooks the rest of the way.

/ user name checks out?
 
2021-09-15 9:46:04 AM  

151: Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.

/Half inch thick patties
//Or 4oz patties times two if you're going the smash burger route, which is a solid option, assuming you have a flat top or otherwise similar device


Sadly, in this dumbass market, farking brisket and short ribs are noticeably more expensive than 80/20 ground beef. And of course strip is. That's not to say I can't afford them, but I don't think the improvement over ground chuck will be commiserate with spending 70-100% more on the meat, plus the effort of grinding a blend.

If I was in the mood to grind my own blend these days, I'd snag a round roast on sale and grind it with pork belly to get a 75/25 to 80/20 fat percentage.
 
2021-09-15 9:49:25 AM  
olrasputin:
will be commiserate

/sigh

Commensurate. Just started my cup of coffee...
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-09-15 9:56:51 AM  

olrasputin: 151: Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.

/Half inch thick patties
//Or 4oz patties times two if you're going the smash burger route, which is a solid option, assuming you have a flat top or otherwise similar device

Sadly, in this dumbass market, farking brisket and short ribs are noticeably more expensive than 80/20 ground beef. And of course strip is. That's not to say I can't afford them, but I don't think the improvement over ground chuck will be commiserate with spending 70-100% more on the meat, plus the effort of grinding a blend.

If I was in the mood to grind my own blend these days, I'd snag a round roast on sale and grind it with pork belly to get a 75/25 to 80/20 fat percentage.


I disagree with nothing you just said. My original post was just "want a damn good burger? Here's how, don't waste your time with whatever crap takeout is saying".

You can still have a good burger with chuck, or a really good burger like you suggested with round/pork belly. Current prices and availability and time to grind, etc etc, were not considered.

See? It's food. It's all good, unless you put fruit on pizza.
 
2021-09-15 10:06:52 AM  
fark all that. Just go to Big Kahuna burger
 
2021-09-15 10:09:04 AM  

151: olrasputin: 151: Brisket, short rib, strip. Season with salt and pepper, generously. High heat. Medium. A good brioche bun. Dress accordingly to your personal tastes/insanity (we just had a 100+ comment thread on this last week).

There. Saved you all the time.

/Half inch thick patties
//Or 4oz patties times two if you're going the smash burger route, which is a solid option, assuming you have a flat top or otherwise similar device

Sadly, in this dumbass market, farking brisket and short ribs are noticeably more expensive than 80/20 ground beef. And of course strip is. That's not to say I can't afford them, but I don't think the improvement over ground chuck will be commiserate with spending 70-100% more on the meat, plus the effort of grinding a blend.

If I was in the mood to grind my own blend these days, I'd snag a round roast on sale and grind it with pork belly to get a 75/25 to 80/20 fat percentage.

I disagree with nothing you just said. My original post was just "want a damn good burger? Here's how, don't waste your time with whatever crap takeout is saying".

You can still have a good burger with chuck, or a really good burger like you suggested with round/pork belly. Current prices and availability and time to grind, etc etc, were not considered.

See? It's food. It's all good, unless you put fruit on pizza.


/pedant
You don't even like tomatoes on your pizza!?
/pedant

I wasn't disagreeing with you--mostly just trying to throw budget considerations into the mix given where meat supply stands and the fact that we just had a thread about it. Although at this point, I'm not convinced brisket and beef ribs will ever return to "junk cut" prices. I picked round and pork belly specifically because I still see them on sale for normal-ish prices somewhat regularly. ...and round is just kind of a bastard to do anything with on its own.

/Doesn't mind pineapple on pizza
//Certainly not a preference though
///What about goat cheese, prosciutto, fig, balsamic reduction, and basil on a white sauce pizza?
 
2021-09-15 10:43:49 AM  
It's probably obvious to most people here, but use fresh meat.  By that, I mean it hasn't been frozen and it hasn't been in your fridge for a week.
 
2021-09-15 10:58:36 AM  
Giant burger sprites?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 11:16:19 AM  

bostonguy: McGrits: The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?

Is that not true? I always cook a burger on high heat to sear the first side, then flip it over to sear the other side, and then turn the heat down while it cooks the rest of the way.

/ user name checks out?


Meat kind of works like a sponge.  As long as you're not squeezing the shiat out of it, the juices aren't going anywhere.  This doesn't apply to the smashburger method simply because you're smashing down on the burger immediately when you throw it on the griddle.


Eightballjacket: It's probably obvious to most people here, but use fresh meat.  By that, I mean it hasn't been frozen and it hasn't been in your fridge for a week.


Good frozen meat will still be better than shiattier fresh meat.  The freezer gets a bad rap.
 
2021-09-15 11:56:37 AM  

bostonguy: McGrits: The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?

Is that not true? I always cook a burger on high heat to sear the first side, then flip it over to sear the other side, and then turn the heat down while it cooks the rest of the way.

/ user name checks out?


Searing is for creating the maillard reaction which makes things very tasty. At no point in time does searing actually hermetically seal the meat and prevent liquids from coming out.
 
2021-09-15 1:29:33 PM  
What's the benefit of 'smashing' a burger over shaping it and grilling it?

Personally I use a 50/50 lean beef/pork mix. Makes lovely burgers.
 
2021-09-15 1:38:02 PM  

McGrits: Searing is for creating the maillard reaction which makes things very tasty. At no point in time does searing actually hermetically seal the meat and prevent liquids from coming out.


Thanks!

Is it still true that making a steak with bone in keeps it moist while a steak without the bone will be more dry? I've heard some debate, but it seems true to me.
 
2021-09-15 1:59:24 PM  

bostonguy: McGrits: Searing is for creating the maillard reaction which makes things very tasty. At no point in time does searing actually hermetically seal the meat and prevent liquids from coming out.

Thanks!

Is it still true that making a steak with bone in keeps it moist while a steak without the bone will be more dry? I've heard some debate, but it seems true to me.


The bone acts as a heatsink since it has has a different thermal mass and specific heat from the surrounding meat. The extra juiciness is from the surrounding meats from not going to a higher temp as quickly and therefore the meat proteins don't squeeze as much liquid out.

Medium rare is medium rare. Bones effect how hast you get there.
 
2021-09-15 2:06:53 PM  

McGrits: bostonguy: McGrits: The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?

Is that not true? I always cook a burger on high heat to sear the first side, then flip it over to sear the other side, and then turn the heat down while it cooks the rest of the way.

/ user name checks out?

Searing is for creating the maillard reaction which makes things very tasty. At no point in time does searing actually hermetically seal the meat and prevent liquids from coming out.


Hermetically sealed is a stretch but the Maillard reaction(binding of sugars and amino acids) does in fact gum up the works. A seared burger will ooze more from the side rather than the top and bottom.  Take for example a bread bowl.  The crust is a Maillard reaction.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 2:08:57 PM  
"...burger...smash..."
Fark user imageView Full Size

They gots a funny way of spelling "chain grill"
 
2021-09-15 2:09:31 PM  

Swiss Colony: What's the benefit of 'smashing' a burger over shaping it and grilling it?


Crust. Lots and lots of tasty crust.
 
2021-09-15 2:12:04 PM  
I usually just get some cheap, high fat ground beef.  Make a panade with some milk and bread (for better cohesion), Mix in the beef, season with some crushed garlic, S+P, and some msg.  Roll into quarter pound balls and cook them smash burger style.  Freeze any extra for later use.   Quick and very tasty patty.  Even better with homemade buns.
 
2021-09-15 2:24:07 PM  
I've made a lean meat burger better by dicing up bacon and incorporating it into the mix. It works particularly well for venison and caribou which are both super lean.
 
2021-09-15 2:28:14 PM  

fasahd: McGrits: bostonguy: McGrits: The crust seals in juices? On a ground meat patty?

Is that not true? I always cook a burger on high heat to sear the first side, then flip it over to sear the other side, and then turn the heat down while it cooks the rest of the way.

/ user name checks out?

Searing is for creating the maillard reaction which makes things very tasty. At no point in time does searing actually hermetically seal the meat and prevent liquids from coming out.

Hermetically sealed is a stretch but the Maillard reaction(binding of sugars and amino acids) does in fact gum up the works. A seared burger will ooze more from the side rather than the top and bottom.  Take for example a bread bowl.  The crust is a Maillard reaction.
[Fark user image image 400x300]


Nope, that's just because the liquids and fats have been vaporized by exposure to the heat, not that there's some magical water tight crust formed. You can test this by doing a sous vide to bring the burger up to temp and then doing a super hot sear on the outside. You'll still get a browned layer but it will have significant "bleeding" because you've minimized the layer that is dehyrated.
 
2021-09-15 3:07:36 PM  

SoCalChris: Swiss Colony: What's the benefit of 'smashing' a burger over shaping it and grilling it?

Crust. Lots and lots of tasty crust.


Exactly.  I started following Kenji's method a few years ago. As I posted on last month SmashBurger thread, I consider it to be the platinum-iridium standard by which cheeseburgers are measured.
 
2021-09-15 4:30:33 PM  

Anoria: Still nursing a grudge against smash burgers because HopCat switched completely over to them, abandoning their previous burger options. The new menu is tasty enough but not the same, and there's no way to order a smash patty anything but well done. Not sayin' rare ground beef is a good idea, but a bit of pink in the middle of a thick pub burger is something to appreciate.

As far as homemade, thick patties win again. Propane means I can grill in just about any weather and there is no smashing to be done on a grill grate. I guess this technique is useful for those poor souls trapped in apartments where burgers have to be cooked indoors.


Fark user imageView Full Size


A nice "normal" grilled burger is awesome but I enjoy smash burgers on the ring griddle on the Weber
 
2021-09-15 4:54:46 PM  

Anoria: As far as homemade, thick patties win again. Propane means I can grill in just about any weather and there is no smashing to be done on a grill grate. I guess this technique is useful for those poor souls trapped in apartments where burgers have to be cooked indoors.


You can always throw a skillet on your grill grate.  I'll still throw burgers on the grill, especially if I don't feel like smoking up the kitchen and/or I'm making a bunch.  But the smashburger technique is solid.

Lord Bear: I usually just get some cheap, high fat ground beef.  Make a panade with some milk and bread (for better cohesion), Mix in the beef, season with some crushed garlic, S+P, and some msg.  Roll into quarter pound balls and cook them smash burger style.  Freeze any extra for later use.   Quick and very tasty patty.  Even better with homemade buns.


I've never found the panade necessary.  To me it starts to get too close to meatball territory with that and other seasonings.  Then again, the quality and grind of the meat plays a part so you're at the mercy of what your supermarket offers.  I also used to mix the salt/pepper in before forming the patties, but a different set of tests from one of Kenji's articles showed that you get better results just seasoning the outside of the patties.

And while I'm usually lazy and just buy pre-ground meat, if you're planning ahead then I highly recommend grinding your own.  There's a decent Kitchenaid attachment, but you can do it with a standard food processor as well.  You can really control the grind size and density of the burgers depending on how you intend to cook them.
 
2021-09-15 5:02:41 PM  
1 lb ground sirloin
4 Tbs melted butter
1 Tbs black pepper
4 Tbs Worcestershire sauce

Mix. Form into 4 1/4" patties.

4 minutes on side. 3 the other.
 
2021-09-15 6:05:00 PM  
I've experimented recently with lower heat on the burgs.  Using this Hamilton Beach Searing Grill ....
target.scene7.comView Full Size

And making larger patties using 80/20, what I was finding was on typical higher temperatures, tough to keep the proper form of a larger hand-formed patty.

What I started doing is longer cooking, around 250 degrees using the handy dial. takes varying amount of times but you can tell when its almost done.  When you're really close, crank the heat up to 350 so it gets hot enough to melt the cheese post-haste.

Thats about it.  Thats my better burger process as of late.

side note, I do love the searing grill for many forms of meat.  But the true usage of the thing seems to be being able to use that temperature dial and keep it low, not mega hot, and it really gets chicken and pork and burgers just right.

For steaks, I crank it up to max heat, minute and a half on each side, then dial the heat down around 275 and give it another minute on each side.  that seems to fairly reliably get me a medium steak.
 
2021-09-15 6:16:04 PM  

phedex: I've experimented recently with lower heat on the burgs.  Using this Hamilton Beach Searing Grill ....[target.scene7.com image 488x488]
And making larger patties using 80/20, what I was finding was on typical higher temperatures, tough to keep the proper form of a larger hand-formed patty.

What I started doing is longer cooking, around 250 degrees using the handy dial. takes varying amount of times but you can tell when its almost done.  When you're really close, crank the heat up to 350 so it gets hot enough to melt the cheese post-haste.

Thats about it.  Thats my better burger process as of late.

side note, I do love the searing grill for many forms of meat.  But the true usage of the thing seems to be being able to use that temperature dial and keep it low, not mega hot, and it really gets chicken and pork and burgers just right.

For steaks, I crank it up to max heat, minute and a half on each side, then dial the heat down around 275 and give it another minute on each side.  that seems to fairly reliably get me a medium steak.


Charcoal or propane.

No one likes you
 
2021-09-15 6:48:16 PM  
Reverse Sear in Oven.  Finish on Grill.  That is all.
 
2021-09-15 6:49:43 PM  

Axeofjudgement: phedex: I've experimented recently with lower heat on the burgs.  Using this Hamilton Beach Searing Grill ....[target.scene7.com image 488x488]
And making larger patties using 80/20, what I was finding was on typical higher temperatures, tough to keep the proper form of a larger hand-formed patty.

What I started doing is longer cooking, around 250 degrees using the handy dial. takes varying amount of times but you can tell when its almost done.  When you're really close, crank the heat up to 350 so it gets hot enough to melt the cheese post-haste.

Thats about it.  Thats my better burger process as of late.

side note, I do love the searing grill for many forms of meat.  But the true usage of the thing seems to be being able to use that temperature dial and keep it low, not mega hot, and it really gets chicken and pork and burgers just right.

For steaks, I crank it up to max heat, minute and a half on each side, then dial the heat down around 275 and give it another minute on each side.  that seems to fairly reliably get me a medium steak.

Charcoal or propane.

No one likes you


i know!
 
2021-09-15 6:58:57 PM  

justanothersumguy: Reverse Sear in Oven.  Finish on Grill.  That is all.


If I'm using the oven for steaks or burgers it's because it's -10 out, there's 2' of snow, or rain is flying sideways for the third day in a row. In any of those situations I'll finish the sear in a cast iron pan. If I'm using the grill it works just fine to reverse sear all by itself.
 
2021-09-15 7:08:57 PM  

phedex: Axeofjudgement: phedex: I've experimented recently with lower heat on the burgs.  Using this Hamilton Beach Searing Grill ....[target.scene7.com image 488x488]
And making larger patties using 80/20, what I was finding was on typical higher temperatures, tough to keep the proper form of a larger hand-formed patty.

What I started doing is longer cooking, around 250 degrees using the handy dial. takes varying amount of times but you can tell when its almost done.  When you're really close, crank the heat up to 350 so it gets hot enough to melt the cheese post-haste.

Thats about it.  Thats my better burger process as of late.

side note, I do love the searing grill for many forms of meat.  But the true usage of the thing seems to be being able to use that temperature dial and keep it low, not mega hot, and it really gets chicken and pork and burgers just right.

For steaks, I crank it up to max heat, minute and a half on each side, then dial the heat down around 275 and give it another minute on each side.  that seems to fairly reliably get me a medium steak.

Charcoal or propane.

No one likes you

i know!


Oh thank gods,

I feel less bad about pointing that out but seriously

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-15 7:12:28 PM  

robodog: justanothersumguy: Reverse Sear in Oven.  Finish on Grill.  That is all.

If I'm using the oven for steaks or burgers it's because it's -10 out, there's 2' of snow, or rain is flying sideways for the third day in a row. In any of those situations I'll finish the sear in a cast iron pan. If I'm using the grill it works just fine to reverse sear all by itself.


Counter Point:  Better Heat Control.  Internal Thermometer use with ease.  2-4" thick pub burgers. 2-4" steaks.  Minimal Charcoal/Wood Consumption.   Never Dry.  Doneness Always Perfect.
 
2021-09-15 7:31:45 PM  

justanothersumguy: robodog: justanothersumguy: Reverse Sear in Oven.  Finish on Grill.  That is all.

If I'm using the oven for steaks or burgers it's because it's -10 out, there's 2' of snow, or rain is flying sideways for the third day in a row. In any of those situations I'll finish the sear in a cast iron pan. If I'm using the grill it works just fine to reverse sear all by itself.

Counter Point:  Better Heat Control.  Internal Thermometer use with ease.  2-4" thick pub burgers. 2-4" steaks.  Minimal Charcoal/Wood Consumption.   Never Dry.  Doneness Always Perfect.


Grill has digital temp control, +-11F from set point, way better than my oven (and most ovens). Fair enough on the charcoal use, but 90+% of the use is getting up to temp so the 250F stage is pretty immaterial to total use. Doneness being perfect is about monitoring temp, that's what integrated probes with alarms bring =)
 
2021-09-15 8:27:05 PM  
Kinda turned me off with this line:  "Not only does fat taste good and boost flavor, but it makes for a moist and juicy burger."

Fat doesn't make your burger moist.  *Liquid* makes your burger moist.  Having more liquid in the meat will make it juicier.  If you want a juicy burger, look into how to make a forcemeat, and understand that making a forcemeat out of hamburger is VERY delicate; do it in a metal bowl in an ice bath...
 
2021-09-15 8:41:05 PM  

Gough: SoCalChris: Swiss Colony: What's the benefit of 'smashing' a burger over shaping it and grilling it?

Crust. Lots and lots of tasty crust.

Exactly.  I started following Kenji's method a few years ago. As I posted on last month SmashBurger thread, I consider it to be the platinum-iridium standard by which cheeseburgers are measured.


I just want to third what you and Joey have been saying about smash burgers. They're great. I also started making them after reading Kenji on the subject.

Lately, I've been watching episodes of Burger Scholar Sessions on YouTube, and while Motz can be a bit much, he also has great tips for smash burgers. I look forward to making a lacy edge smash burger next time I make burgers.
 
2021-09-15 9:02:38 PM  

Tarl3k: Kinda turned me off with this line:  "Not only does fat taste good and boost flavor, but it makes for a moist and juicy burger."

Fat doesn't make your burger moist.  *Liquid* makes your burger moist.  Having more liquid in the meat will make it juicier.  If you want a juicy burger, look into how to make a forcemeat, and understand that making a forcemeat out of hamburger is VERY delicate; do it in a metal bowl in an ice bath...


Or just add egg....
 
2021-09-15 9:38:29 PM  

phedex: Axeofjudgement: phedex: I've experimented recently with lower heat on the burgs.  Using this Hamilton Beach Searing Grill ....[target.scene7.com image 488x488]
And making larger patties using 80/20, what I was finding was on typical higher temperatures, tough to keep the proper form of a larger hand-formed patty.

What I started doing is longer cooking, around 250 degrees using the handy dial. takes varying amount of times but you can tell when its almost done.  When you're really close, crank the heat up to 350 so it gets hot enough to melt the cheese post-haste.

Thats about it.  Thats my better burger process as of late.

side note, I do love the searing grill for many forms of meat.  But the true usage of the thing seems to be being able to use that temperature dial and keep it low, not mega hot, and it really gets chicken and pork and burgers just right.

For steaks, I crank it up to max heat, minute and a half on each side, then dial the heat down around 275 and give it another minute on each side.  that seems to fairly reliably get me a medium steak.

Charcoal or propane.

No one likes you

i know!


I like you.
 
7 days ago  
Go to Boston in Back Bay, Fenway, or Allston.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

ToughActinProlactin: Go to Boston in Back Bay, Fenway, or Allston.

[Fark user image 275x183]


That's new? Is it really that good?
 
6 days ago  

bostonguy: ToughActinProlactin: Go to Boston in Back Bay, Fenway, or Allston.

[Fark user image 275x183]

That's new? Is it really that good?


At its pricepoint I find it pretty unbeatable at least in the city proper. Price point value was always great IMO. I'm not saying it's the best in the world or anything like that but for just a few bucks it's a very solid burger. Their Turkey Burger is also great. I used to eat there once every week or two when I was working downtown.
 
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