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(The Verge)   Why the Windows 11 taskbar is the worst thing since Vista   (theverge.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Windows 7, new Windows, Windows XP, Windows 95, Windows 2000, Graphical user interface, Windows Vista, Windows taskbar  
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1761 clicks; posted to STEM » on 15 Sep 2021 at 8:17 AM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



114 Comments     (+0 »)
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5 days ago  
Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?
 
5 days ago  
I like my taskbar on the right side. No one else seems to but whatever, I did it a long time ago and I'm used to it being over there.

When I installed Win 11 I spent like ten minutes trying to figure out how to put it over there before I realized there simply wasn't an option to do that, which made me even more confused.
 
5 days ago  

Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?



it wants to be like an iphone.
 
5 days ago  

Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?


The Dock (the Mac equivalent of the Task Bar) is far better than the mess he's describing.
 
5 days ago  
I wonder if they finally fixed the auto-hide not farking up with certain programs/modes.  This has been a problem for years if not over a decade.
 
4 days ago  
Looks like my lack of excitement over Windows 11 wasn't just due to my contrary nature.
 
4 days ago  
Why the hell are they picking on Vista, which had a perfectly serviceable taskbar, when it was actually Windows 8 that had the unspeakably awful taskbar experience, IMHO, for desktop users? Then again, consider the source.
 
4 days ago  

UberDave: I wonder if they finally fixed the auto-hide not farking up with certain programs/modes.  This has been a problem for years if not over a decade.


They don't tend to fix things, just make things worse.

I use excel a lot and the things I hate the most is that:

The excel window will go below the taskbar.
Excel defaults to collate in print options. Although MS insists that it's a print driver issue. Which would make sense if changing printers would switch collation options.

At the end of the day, it's lazy coding or there is so much changes in the code that no one knows what's going on.
 
4 days ago  
Even when Windows 10 was new and being rolled out to our systems, we plan ahead for the next modernization.  Never once did anyone say "Windows 11" - it was always, "...so when we have to roll out Windows 12...."  We have been well trained to understand that Microsoft always, ALWAYS messes up every OTHER release and then fixes it with the following release.
 
4 days ago  
1. Messed up UI.
2. Telemetry that is increasingly difficult to shut off.
3. Hardware requirements.

Windows is not a decent operating system anymore. It's an appliance update for your hardware to turn it in to an appliance for Microsoft assuming you have the hardware to run it of course. While it's nice that Windows 10 will be around till about 2024/2025? This isn't the direction I want to go anymore with computing/gaming. Still for those that do, have fun especially when you have a pay a monthly fee for nearly everything people used to run at single cost through a hardware life cycle.
 
4 days ago  

Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?


Mac has had a very clear thing about "applications" since the beginning. On a Mac an app looks like a single file with a snazzy icon. You can put it into a Games folder, or whatever. (Of course the app can get access to all the things it needs to do its job) It turned out this works just as well and is a lot more fun than the way Windows barfs a bunch of mysterious files in different obscure directories, farks with your registry, and tries to sugar coat everything with a Start menu that gets redesigned every version by the executives' step kids. Windows has been slowly copying Mac since the beginning and never getting it right.
 
4 days ago  
If someone were actually serious about Linux being a good desktop OS for the masses, this wouldn't be an issue.  I've tried a bunch of the Linux distros and they all have certain issues, but their universal theme is still "Don't install this for people who don't like to fiddle with computers"
 
4 days ago  
If its a combo of what's best about Mac OS and Windows, I would be happy.
 
4 days ago  
I love being able to group apps by type in the Win10 Start menu. Sounds like that's gone and it will completely fark up my workflow. They killed Windows Phone and now it looks like they're trying to make desktops and laptops look like a friggin phone, meanwhile I've seen articles where it sounds like they are already alienating Surface Duo users with crappy updates, and they have no intention of making a Win11 phone even though hackers have installed it on the Lumia 950 XL. I've defended Microsoft in the past, but Satya and Panos are out of their goddamned minds. Win11 is going to be a bigger disaster than Vista or Win8. I'm farking furious and terrified.
 
4 days ago  

fragMasterFlash: Why the hell are they picking on Vista, which had a perfectly serviceable taskbar, when it was actually Windows 8 that had the unspeakably awful taskbar experience, IMHO, for desktop users? Then again, consider the source.


Vista was pretty horrible for a number of non-taskbar reasons.

First, Vista switched to a new driver model, but MS didn't prepare device manufacturers for that, so nobody had drivers ready on time.  Plus Vista was very dependent on drivers working just so, so that plus the rushed drivers  & lack of testing resulted in blue screens & hard crashes being a common sight.  MS blamed vendors for that, but the root cause was lack of communication & certification.  A lot of older hardware simply never got updated drivers at all, and died with XP.

Second, everyone was used to running 32 bit XP.  Vista had both a 32 bit and 64 bit version, but the 32 bit version essentially didn't work, as Vista was very bloated & required as much memory by itself as a 32 bit OS could address... meaning you couldn't run your apps.  You could fix this by switching to the 64 bit version and installing more RAM, but it was an unwelcome surprise and made the driver problem worse, as Vista 64 couldn't use 32 bit drivers, and nobody had 64 bit drivers.

So your choices with Vista were a 32 bit OS you couldn't run apps on because the OS hogged all the memory, or a 64 bit OS that none of your hardware worked with.  And either way, blue & even black screens left & right.

Windows 7 fixed the above by a) setting expectations that 64 bit was the way to go, b) greatly optimizing memory usage (it was the first Windows I remember using LESS memory than the version before), and c) doing a far better job with certifying drivers.  Windows 7 was basically a functional version of Windows Vista.

Also, Windows 7 had the advantage of following Vista... all the problems of the driver model switch were all associated with Vista, so even though Windows 7 had the same basic architecture it didn't suffer the blame for the switch, and vendors had gotten their drivers ironed out / consumers had already dumped their old hardware by the time Windows 7 came out.
 
4 days ago  

Explodo: If someone were actually serious about Linux being a good desktop OS for the masses, this wouldn't be an issue.  I've tried a bunch of the Linux distros and they all have certain issues, but their universal theme is still "Don't install this for people who don't like to fiddle with computers"


Agree.  I had Mint on a machine I built and I loved it....once I got it working.  Linux can be a pain to get working, which will always keep it out of the mainstream, but once it is working smoothly it's great.  Very low resource usage. Rarely, if ever, crashes.  It's just incredibly reliable, but to think the average person can get Linux up and running is pipe dream.  Most people just have no idea how computers work, nor do they want to learn.  They just need it to do what they want or at least what they think they want.  This is why Windows isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.
 
4 days ago  
I am an anarchist, my task bar is at the top of the screen.
 
4 days ago  

Mystwalk: I am an anarchist, my task bar is at the top of the screen.


You're still just a tool of The Man, keeping within the little square box he wants you in.  I have my Taskbar on the backside of my monitor.
 
4 days ago  
Yeah, not using that garbage fire. My Win10 bar looks as much like XP as I can make it, and that mac ripoff takes it a step too far.

You can't ... ungroup icons

That's definitely the worst part. Why would I want to click 3 times to change windows when having them ungrouped and title showing lets me see what the fark is happening without guessing?
 
4 days ago  

largedon: but to think the average person can get Linux up and running is pipe dream


The thing is, there are a lot of distros that do work well for average folks- they're just not the distros that Linux users like. Elementary OS installs and works on most hardware without difficulty, in part because it's running on an ancient Ubuntu core that's stable and well understood. But it also means all the software is ancient (which is why they're moving to Flatpaks, which again, Linux nerds hate).

Personally, I don't understand Windows. I can't find shiat in settings, I can't google for how to find shiat, because where shiat lives is constantly changing. Linux I understand and know how to use.
 
4 days ago  

Confabulat: I like my taskbar on the right side. No one else seems to but whatever, I did it a long time ago and I'm used to it being over there.

When I installed Win 11 I spent like ten minutes trying to figure out how to put it over there before I realized there simply wasn't an option to do that, which made me even more confused.


https://www.windowscentral.com/you-ca​n​-move-windows-11-taskbar-you-probably-​shouldnt
 
4 days ago  

Nimbull: 1. Messed up UI.
2. Telemetry that is increasingly difficult to shut off.
3. Hardware requirements.

Windows is not a decent operating system anymore. It's an appliance update for your hardware to turn it in to an appliance for Microsoft assuming you have the hardware to run it of course. While it's nice that Windows 10 will be around till about 2024/2025? This isn't the direction I want to go anymore with computing/gaming. Still for those that do, have fun especially when you have a pay a monthly fee for nearly everything people used to run at single cost through a hardware life cycle.


2. It's in beta. The official 11 will let you turn it off
 
4 days ago  

largedon: f someone were actually serious about Linux being a good desktop OS for the masses, this wouldn't be an issue. I've tried a bunch of the Linux distros and they all have certain issues, but their universal theme is still "Don't install this for people who don't like to fiddle with computers"


Takes me longer in powershell to remove the Windows bloat, and in settings to disable Telemetry than it does to set up a new Arch install. An Arch install in which you wouldn't need a terminal unless you wanted to I might add.

Anyone who thinks you got to "fiddle" with a linux distro nowadays probably hasn't used one in 10 years or so.

Heck I would argue that a new Windows install is a worse experience than setting up a Popos install.
 
4 days ago  

bingethinker: Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?

The Dock (the Mac equivalent of the Task Bar) is far better than the mess he's describing.


God that dock shiat is annoying. I'm constantly removing shiat from it, I hate clutter.
 
4 days ago  
I feel like Task Bars somehow made a grand comeback recently. Remember when every internet download would add a bar to your browser? Anyone have a parent who covered half their browser with them? Well my new CAD tools puts on in Illustrator. And so does Deskpack. As well and the built in Adobe one. And now they want another Automation Engine one. It probably works if your company will spring for larger monitors. Mine does not.
 
4 days ago  

Merltech: UberDave: I wonder if they finally fixed the auto-hide not farking up with certain programs/modes.  This has been a problem for years if not over a decade.

They don't tend to fix things, just make things worse.

I use excel a lot and the things I hate the most is that:

The excel window will go below the taskbar.
Excel defaults to collate in print options. Although MS insists that it's a print driver issue. Which would make sense if changing printers would switch collation options.

At the end of the day, it's lazy coding or there is so much changes in the code that no one knows what's going on.


Like their "Updates" that are supposed to "fix issues," but seem to cause even more problems or really don't solve the original problem. And they never seen to install properly the first time, let alone multiple tries. And when users inform Microsoft about issues, the "Help Desk" doesn't answer or they dismiss it by minimizing how many people have had that problem or by saying "Weird. We didn't have that issue."
 
4 days ago  

Explodo: If someone were actually serious about Linux being a good desktop OS for the masses, this wouldn't be an issue.  I've tried a bunch of the Linux distros and they all have certain issues, but their universal theme is still "Don't install this for people who don't like to fiddle with computers"


That OS only has a future with the current user base until someone decides to make something more accessible to those that don't want to have to tinker with everything.
 
4 days ago  

Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?


Windows 11 Home will be free to everyone except Pro customers. Do you know what they say about a free product? You are the product. They are integrating advertising and tracking heavily into this release.
 
4 days ago  

Confabulat: I like my taskbar on the right side. No one else seems to but whatever, I did it a long time ago and I'm used to it being over there.

When I installed Win 11 I spent like ten minutes trying to figure out how to put it over there before I realized there simply wasn't an option to do that, which made me even more confused.


I'm the opposite.  I moved my Dock over to the left side of the screen when I first switched from OS9 to OSX and I can't stand it being on the bottom now.
 
4 days ago  
You'll get over it.
 
4 days ago  

drjekel_mrhyde: Nimbull: 1. Messed up UI.
2. Telemetry that is increasingly difficult to shut off.
3. Hardware requirements.

Windows is not a decent operating system anymore. It's an appliance update for your hardware to turn it in to an appliance for Microsoft assuming you have the hardware to run it of course. While it's nice that Windows 10 will be around till about 2024/2025? This isn't the direction I want to go anymore with computing/gaming. Still for those that do, have fun especially when you have a pay a monthly fee for nearly everything people used to run at single cost through a hardware life cycle.

2. It's in beta. The official 11 will let you turn it off


Don't like telemetry.. that being said, the prime purpose of it is to be able to phone home and say "Houston, we have a problem"....  the problem is that we don't know what information is being sent, and who gets it, and we can't control it.   In today,s time, 'Big Brother' is everywhere.. you cannot move without a camera seeing it, and 'phone home' is a feature in most equipment... it is what it is.  Primarily, MS wants to know what their OS is doing, and how, similar to the landlord dropping by unannounced to inspect his house.. just more up front about it than before.  Get used to it, not going away.  Typing this on a Win7 32 bit system sans any telemetry, and with zero glitches since EOL.   Works for me.
 
4 days ago  

fragMasterFlash: Why the hell are they picking on Vista, which had a perfectly serviceable taskbar, when it was actually Windows 8 that had the unspeakably awful taskbar experience, IMHO, for desktop users? Then again, consider the source.


Um, the only time the article mentions Vista it mentions Win 8 immediately afterwards in the same sentence.  You need to blame subby for his headline here, not the article writer or the website it is on.
 
4 days ago  

drjekel_mrhyde: The official 11 will let you turn it off


[Citation Needed]
 
4 days ago  
I used Windows ME for 7 years, on the same desktop, and somehow it never crashed or froze once. People hate Windows versions so much that I wonder what everyone else is dooing with their computers that I never thought of. Either the complaints are bullshiat, or I am very very very very boring (computationally speaking).
 
4 days ago  

OlderGuy: Primarily, MS wants to know what their OS is doing, and how, similar to the landlord dropping by unannounced to inspect his house..


The problem there is a new definition of ownership and property.
 
4 days ago  
windows 10 is fine, stop farking with it.
 
4 days ago  
This is literally "Goddamit stop making my windows box a mac!"

As a Mac user at home, I'm like "At least don't half ass it like you usually do."

As a Windows user at work, I'm like "STOP CHANGING THE GODDAMN INTERFACE, ASSHOLES!"

As a FreeBSD user, I'm just playing Nethack.

As a guy who hates computers, I'm depressed all the time, really.
 
4 days ago  

labman: I'm the opposite.  I moved my Dock over to the left side of the screen when I first switched from OS9 to OSX and I can't stand it being on the bottom now.


Hello brother/sister from another mother!
 
4 days ago  

Bennie Crabtree: I used Windows ME for 7 years


Ah, Windows CE/ME/NT.

Also, my favorite swear work. "Word crashed again? WIN ME!"
 
4 days ago  
I'll stick with Arch, thanks though
 
4 days ago  

MindStalker: Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?

Windows 11 Home will be free to everyone except Pro customers. Do you know what they say about a free product? You are the product. They are integrating advertising and tracking heavily into this release.


How did windows 11 know I wanted a hamburger... why is the Camera light blinking???
 
4 days ago  
Hopefully the makers of OpenShell (formerly ClassicShell) or 7+ Taskbar Tweaker will come to the rescue with a tool that restores the older look and behavior.
 
4 days ago  
fark pinned apps, never condense.  I always build a quick launch toolbar, as god intended, including a "show desktop" button to get me back as close as I can get to an XP taskbar.

/Why did that little show desktop nub that used to live in the lower right corner go away?  I can't remember which windows version had that, or when it went away.
 
4 days ago  
Computer Designers: Long wide screens with not a whole lot of height

Operating System Interface Designers: Put the panels horizontally on the bottom

Me: FFFFFFUUUUUUU
 
4 days ago  

RogermcAllen: fark pinned apps, never condense.  I always build a quick launch toolbar, as god intended, including a "show desktop" button to get me back as close as I can get to an XP taskbar.

/Why did that little show desktop nub that used to live in the lower right corner go away?  I can't remember which windows version had that, or when it went away.


Mine still has it and I'm running 20H2.  The desktop peek function when you hover over the nub is turned on or off in the taskbar settings panel (right click on taskbar, last option).
 
4 days ago  
I'm ok with the change, not a fan but ok with it, but what pissed me off was that during there upgrade all of the pinned items were lost/unpinned.
 
4 days ago  
Desktop is running 11, and my laptop is on 10.

I've gotten used to the task bar on 11, and have started to prefer it over the taskbar on 10.

I know we hate change here. Sometimes it's not all bad.
 
4 days ago  

RogermcAllen: fark pinned apps, never condense.  I always build a quick launch toolbar, as god intended, including a "show desktop" button to get me back as close as I can get to an XP taskbar.

/Why did that little show desktop nub that used to live in the lower right corner go away?  I can't remember which windows version had that, or when it went away.


7 has it...
 
4 days ago  

Dinjiin: Hopefully the makers of OpenShell (formerly ClassicShell) or 7+ Taskbar Tweaker will come to the rescue with a tool that restores the older look and behavior.


Or... don't update to 11.
 
4 days ago  

Merltech: MindStalker: Rwa2play: Why does Windows want to be more like Mac than it does Windows?

Windows 11 Home will be free to everyone except Pro customers. Do you know what they say about a free product? You are the product. They are integrating advertising and tracking heavily into this release.

How did windows 11 know I wanted a hamburger... why is the Camera light blinking???


No camera, no mic....
 
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