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(Gizmodo)   Just like when your mom tries to diet, the LAPD Bomb Squad is really bad at eyeballing portion sizes   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Detonation, Police, Los Angeles Police Department, Combustion, Engine knocking, 1992 Los Angeles riots, Explosives engineering, The Los Angeles Times  
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3306 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2021 at 8:25 PM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
5 days ago  
 Negligent homicide?
 
5 days ago  
"Eyeballing" and "Explosives" are a venn diagram that needs to be 2 separate circles..
Separated by about a Mile..

//don't eyeball it.
 
5 days ago  
They should probably all lose their badges. Eyeballing explosives gets people killed.
 
5 days ago  

Somaticasual: "Eyeballing" and "Explosives" are a venn diagram that needs to be 2 separate circles..
Separated by about a Mile..

//don't eyeball it.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
We knew that when the story first ran. Anybody near the scene knew that the instant the truck tried its best JiffyPop impersonation.

Next time, let BATFE handle it. Their people actually went to school for it.
 
5 days ago  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: We knew that when the story first ran. Anybody near the scene knew that the instant the truck tried its best JiffyPop impersonation.

Next time, let BATFE handle it. Their people actually went to school for it.


I was about to say.....well....DUH!!
 
5 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size


cops need to be more careful with semi trucks out there.
 
5 days ago  
Entire LAPD bomb squad needed for that headline.
 
5 days ago  
When cop math is too hard to pull out of thin air, vaporise the evidence...
 
5 days ago  
Michael Moore is the chief?

Could be part of the problem but at least he probably filmed it.
 
5 days ago  
"Meh.  Not my money.  Hey, we need another one of those whatever they are."
 
5 days ago  

Salmon: Michael Moore is the chief?

Could be part of the problem but at least he probably filmed it.


He could have sat on it and told everyone he just had gas.
 
5 days ago  
Bomb squad guy : aight that ought to blow up real good. what? naw man its not too much okay lets get back and joe and set em off.
 
5 days ago  
Scales are not that expensive. They should probably have one on the damn truck next time. I weighed things vary carefully when working with things that could *really* ruin ones day.
 
5 days ago  

alienated: Scales are not that expensive. They should probably have one on the damn truck next time. I weighed things vary carefully when working with things that could *really* ruin ones day.


The problem is that they needed to measure by the pound. I'm sure LAPD officers are more used to measuring by the gram.
 
5 days ago  
... due to the LAPD loading the device designed to make a certain amount of things go boom with way too many things that go boom.

Techno-babble.
But anyway, it's a girl!
 
5 days ago  
At least no toilets were flying.

64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
Maybe the guy doing the math got distracted

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.
 
5 days ago  
I'll bet someone was holding a beer.
 
5 days ago  
Must have been those 死鲸 fireworks.
 
5 days ago  
You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!
Youtube 8g_GeQR8fJo
 
5 days ago  
Maybe next time, just use a bucket of water.
 
5 days ago  

hunh: Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.


It was a completely asinine use of that piece of equipment. They're meant for safely containing small IEDs for transport to the nearest safe disposal radius (or they make sure a proper radius around the vehicle in situ is already evacuated). They were never, will never be, and should never be used for routine pyrotechnic/accelerant/explosive disposal. That is literally not their purpose at all and the companies that make these things pretty much tell you with bold capital red letters and more exclamation points than a Telemundo broadcast that these things are for saving people from small IEDs or infantry munitions.

That being said, were this just a small amount of unstable pyrotechnics that were deemed too unstable for over-land transport, OK I get that. But if that were the case all the un-stable stuff is more powerful than typical pyrotechnics (like Potassium Perchlorate) and you certainly would not be throwing it ANYWHERE by the trashbag.

To put it another way, these guys got lucky they didn't level a couple blocks. From what little video I've been able to find and descriptions of what happened, they just about tripled the PROOF LOAD of vessels like this even if it were just plain PP or just about quadrupled it if it were BP (Black Powder).

I guarantee you if they had grabbed nothing but BP fireworks, there wouldn't be anything left of that truck and they'd have been lucky if more than one wall was left standing in all the houses immediately adjacent that truck. Lord knows how many casualties.

If they had grabbed a bunch of home-made crap made with modern gunpowder? And by the same weight thrown it in that containment vessel? Every BLOCK immediately adjacent that truck would have been nothing but splinters and no structurally sound building left a block further in every direction.

In short, these knuckle-dragging idiots had absolutely no business being in the Bomb Squad and if everyone involved isn't rode out of the LAPD on rails with a fresh new coat of feathers, they do not deserve a replacement, or clearance to run a Bomb Squad in the first place.
 
5 days ago  
Found a pic of the technicians:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
Figure explosion effect as amount of explosive cubed.
 
5 days ago  
Look, the fireworks are gone are they not? Seems like they accomplished the objective.  25kg, 250kg, doesn't matter. End result is the same. The original problem is gone, and you got to make a boom.
 
5 days ago  
i.ebayimg.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
Yeah, LAPD frequently 'eyeballs' 3 grams of drugs as 4 onces. Their REALLY good at that 'guesstimate' thing. Fireworks most likely taken by POCs.
 
5 days ago  
Stop. Reverse that. Guesstimate dyslexia here.
 
5 days ago  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: hunh: Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.

It was a completely asinine use of that piece of equipment. They're meant for safely containing small IEDs for transport to the nearest safe disposal radius (or they make sure a proper radius around the vehicle in situ is already evacuated). They were never, will never be, and should never be used for routine pyrotechnic/accelerant/explosive disposal. That is literally not their purpose at all and the companies that make these things pretty much tell you with bold capital red letters and more exclamation points than a Telemundo broadcast that these things are for saving people from small IEDs or infantry munitions.

That being said, were this just a small amount of unstable pyrotechnics that were deemed too unstable for over-land transport, OK I get that. But if that were the case all the un-stable stuff is more powerful than typical pyrotechnics (like Potassium Perchlorate) and you certainly would not be throwing it ANYWHERE by the trashbag.

To put it another way, these guys got lucky they didn't level a couple blocks. From what little video I've been able to find and descriptions of what happened, they just about tripled the PROOF LOAD of vessels like this even if it were just plain PP or just about quadrupled it if it were BP (Black Powder).

I guarantee you if they had grabbed nothing but BP fireworks, there wouldn't be anything left of that truck and they'd have been lucky if more than one wall was left standing in all the houses immediately adjacent that truck. Lord knows how many casualties.

If they had grabbed a bunch of home-made crap made with modern gunpowder? And by the same weight thrown it in that containment vessel? Every BLOCK immediately adjacent that truck would have been nothing but splinters and no structurally sound building left a block further in every direction.

In short, these knuckle-dragging idiots had ...


And, just to clarify, I'm NOT exaggerating when it comes to "if it were modern gunpowder." It's actually in the industry classified as "smokeless" powder, but modern "gunpowders" are actually more exciting than TNT. Not kidding. Your average "Magnum" powder is going to have an RE factor anywhere from 1.25 to 1.4. RE factor means "times more effective than TNT." Even the stuff we sell over the counters right now in some of the hotter loads of 5.56 NATO still is at minimum an RE Factor of 1.1.

Now you're going to say "no farking way they pack stuff more powerful than TNT into bullets people carry around in their glove compartments" and the answer to that is absolutely yes they do because they can absolutely make more safe a tiny amount of TNT or worse in a nifty little protective brass case with only 2 ways to set it off: extreme heat or hitting that tiiiiiiiiiiny little button.

So if they packed 40 god-damned pounds (containment vessels like this are meant for handling--with shrapnel too--2 M67s at once emulating a domestic IED safely) of even just PP (Potassium Perchlorate) into this thing, having an RE Factor hard to even figure out (it doesn't detonate), my best educated guess is probably an RE of probably .6 at best WHEN COMBINED WITH A PRESSURE VESSEL. They literally could have just piled it up in the streets and just lit it up and it would have done less damage. RE of MAYBE .2. They might have had to re-paint the truck. As it is they almost tripled the proof-load just pressure-wise.

Modern gunpowders (or "smokeless" for those that are nitpicky) are actually more powerful. And easy to get. Online even. Don't even need an FFL in all but what? Oh, no states. Most USUAL gunpowders still have an RE of 1.10 or more. Magnums can crank that up to 11 by going up to 1.4. I do highly doubt I'd find something higher than that though.

So that 40 lbs of actual explosives just became 56 lbs of TNT equivalent for demolition purposes. With HIGHER BRISANCE because of the pressure vessel (pressure vessels always add more brisance if they fail, you're increasing the pressure differential spike before the explosion is over). Most of the Mythbusters scenes involving explosives were still using equivalents and almost all of them (even the famous cement truck scene) were UNDER 1.0. And they only packed the dump truck with 200lbs IIRC. Might have come out to 150-175 TNT equivalent. Now imagine just 1/3 of that in the middle of a "ummmm this is really a 1-lane road with parking" residential neighborhood. With 2x4s for walls instead of concrete. Little hint, when we did all of our research into destruction capability of our bombs, we were figuring in the fact that most of our targets would have been in neighborhoods mostly made of reinforced masonry and stone.

It would have had the same effect as a WWII 1,000 bomb in that neighborhood that we figured it might have in the middle of Marseille when we were dropping actual 1,000 pound bombs like they were pamphlets.

So yeah, that they're poo-pooing this and trying to slow-walk it has people like me (and believe it or not people in BATFE) MAJORLY PISSED OFF.
 
5 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size

There's a right way. PGI approved.
 
5 days ago  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: hunh: Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.

It was a completely asinine use of that piece of equipment. They're meant for safely containing small IEDs for transport to the nearest safe disposal radius (or they make sure a proper radius around the vehicle in situ is already evacuated). They were never, will never be, and should never be used for routine pyrotechnic/accelerant/explosive disposal. That is literally not their purpose at all and the companies that make these things pretty much tell you with bold capital red letters and more exclamation points than a Telemundo broadcast that these things are for saving people from small IEDs or infantry munitions.

That being said, were this just a small amount of unstable pyrotechnics that were deemed too unstable for over-land transport, OK I get that. But if that were the case all the un-stable stuff is more powerful than typical pyrotechnics (like Potassium Perchlorate) and you certainly would not be throwing it ANYWHERE by the trashbag.

To put it another way, these guys got lucky they didn't level a couple blocks. From what little video I've been able to find and descriptions of what happened, they just about tripled the PROOF LOAD of vessels like this even if it were just plain PP or just about quadrupled it if it were BP (Black Powder).

I guarantee you if they had grabbed nothing but BP fireworks, there wouldn't be anything left of that truck and they'd have been lucky if more than one wall was left standing in all the houses immediately adjacent that truck. Lord knows how many casualties.

If they had grabbed a bunch of home-made crap made with modern gunpowder? And by the same weight thrown it in that containment vessel? Every BLOCK immediately adjacent that truck would have been nothing but splinters and no structurally sound building left a block further in every direction.

In short, these ...


I've just looked it up and apparently some people think they loaded the cement truck with 5,000 lbs of ANFO?

I HIGHLY doubt that. Even MOAB doesn't carry that much pure reaction material. Half of even the non-propellant-propellant weight in MOAB is just in getting enough gas out to get the stoichiometrics right. (Which they already know, I'm not a farking traitor) From what I've read they didn't even have proper range clearance to go out far enough to detonate that much. We know so because we can watch the video. They didn't take cover. Or they faked their reactions. OSHA/DOD requires something like feet of concrete and inches of plexi to even view the event safely. Out to 5 kilometers.

I guess I now have to either call it a fake or they were so far away with stabilized lenses that they would have never felt the detonation and proceeding conflagration. And been trained to react to the light. Either way, we know what huge amounts of ANFO can do, and that truck simply couldn't carry enough of it. It took an entire warehouse 800 times that space to have enough room to carry just twice that. Which resulted in a crater in the middle-east, carrying only

Fark, I was hoping that was real. I'm guessing it was, but it was bad enough they had to be double the range out.

And for those nitpicking about the cube/square law, even with just 56 lbs WITHOUT the containment vessel it would have leveled more, I was giving the containment vessel a little bit of credit.
 
5 days ago  
All protocols were followed. Ok, all but one, but horseshoes and hand grenades, right?
 
4 days ago  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: hunh: Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.

It was a completely asinine use of that piece of equipment. They're meant for safely containing small IEDs for transport to the nearest safe disposal radius (or they make sure a proper radius around the vehicle in situ is already evacuated). They were never, will never be, and should never be used for routine pyrotechnic/accelerant/explosive disposal. That is literally not their purpose at all and the companies that make these things pretty much tell you with bold capital red letters and more exclamation points than a Telemundo broadcast that these things are for saving people from small IEDs or infantry munitions.

That being said, were this just a small amount of unstable pyrotechnics that were deemed too unstable for over-land transport, OK I get that. But if that were the case all the un-stable stuff is more powerful than typical pyrotechnics (like Potassium Perchlorate) and you certainly would not be throwing it ANYWHERE by the trashbag.

To put it another way, these guys got lucky they didn't level a couple blocks. From what little video I've been able to find and descriptions of what happened, they just about tripled the PROOF LOAD of vessels like this even if it were just plain PP or just about quadrupled it if it were BP (Black Powder).

I guarantee you if they had grabbed nothing but BP fireworks, there wouldn't be anything left of that truck and they'd have been lucky if more than one wall was left standing in all the houses immediately adjacent that truck. Lord knows how many casualties.

If they had grabbed a bunch of home-made crap made with modern gunpowder? And by the same weight thrown it in that containment vessel? Every BLOCK immediately adjacent that truck would have been nothing but splinters and no structurally sound building left a block further in every direction.

In short, these knuckle-dragging idiots had absolutely no business being in the Bomb Squad and if everyone involved isn't rode out of the LAPD on rails with a fresh new coat of feathers, they do not deserve a replacement, or clearance to run a Bomb Squad in the first place.


Out of curiosity do you have ied / od experience
 
4 days ago  

duenor: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: hunh: Is it common  to do controlled detinations in neighborhoods? I'm pretty sure, around here, they have a remote location for that.

It was a completely asinine use of that piece of equipment. They're meant for safely containing small IEDs for transport to the nearest safe disposal radius (or they make sure a proper radius around the vehicle in situ is already evacuated). They were never, will never be, and should never be used for routine pyrotechnic/accelerant/explosive disposal. That is literally not their purpose at all and the companies that make these things pretty much tell you with bold capital red letters and more exclamation points than a Telemundo broadcast that these things are for saving people from small IEDs or infantry munitions.

That being said, were this just a small amount of unstable pyrotechnics that were deemed too unstable for over-land transport, OK I get that. But if that were the case all the un-stable stuff is more powerful than typical pyrotechnics (like Potassium Perchlorate) and you certainly would not be throwing it ANYWHERE by the trashbag.

To put it another way, these guys got lucky they didn't level a couple blocks. From what little video I've been able to find and descriptions of what happened, they just about tripled the PROOF LOAD of vessels like this even if it were just plain PP or just about quadrupled it if it were BP (Black Powder).

I guarantee you if they had grabbed nothing but BP fireworks, there wouldn't be anything left of that truck and they'd have been lucky if more than one wall was left standing in all the houses immediately adjacent that truck. Lord knows how many casualties.

If they had grabbed a bunch of home-made crap made with modern gunpowder? And by the same weight thrown it in that containment vessel? Every BLOCK immediately adjacent that truck would have been nothing but splinters and no structurally sound building left a block further in every direction.

In short, these ...


In short yes, but mostly old russian or chinese chit. Long form? No, not as an IED tech. My experience is in making the shiat in the first place.

Hope that helps.
 
4 days ago  
Almost like playing with the boom rockets is dangerous or something...
 
4 days ago  

SwiftFox: Figure explosion effect as amount of explosive cubed.


wouldn't the energy follow the inverse square law?
 
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