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(Twitter)   Treason Turtle demands America renege on its debts   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, shot  
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3767 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2021 at 3:55 PM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-14 3:05:42 PM  
Original Tweet:

 
2021-09-14 3:13:17 PM  
Ok, suspension of the debt ceiling will be included in budget reconciliation.
 
2021-09-14 3:17:39 PM  
OK... give us back the last 40 years of tax cuts.

Deal?
 
2021-09-14 3:22:53 PM  
Didnt seem to bother them about three years ago,. Hmm, what changed?
 
2021-09-14 3:23:47 PM  
In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock​-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.
 
2021-09-14 3:25:44 PM  
Huh, but when we talk about student loan forgiveness it's all "duurrr huuurrr pay back what you owe!!!!"
 
2021-09-14 3:25:52 PM  

Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.


The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..
 
2021-09-14 3:28:12 PM  

GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..


Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.
 
2021-09-14 3:45:59 PM  

Nadie_AZ: GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..

Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.


We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We have to raise taxes on some people by about 50%, we have to cut spending on shiat like Defense by 50% or more and we have to find a way to do this without crashing the economy all at the same time...

This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.
 
2021-09-14 3:59:13 PM  

NewportBarGuy: This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.


Climate change is going to cause pain in ways economists are in denial about. I see the Pandemic as both a part of that and a window into how nations are going to react to a changing climate. I agree. I don't have a lot of faith in those who are in power, economically or politically.

There was a quote I read about WWI. I can't recall it exactly but it was along the lines of "England couldn't consider not going to war because of the impact on their economy when in the long run they would have been happy to ONLY lose their economy". I am going to look for it, as I think it is very applicable both to the Pandemic, Climate Change and the looming debt crash.
 
2021-09-14 4:00:35 PM  
He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

He can say this because he's got two Democratic senators on payroll
 
2021-09-14 4:00:41 PM  
He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

So he agrees that it has to be done, but he's not going to help.

/Also, let's be clear for a minute; he'd refuse to help, infrastructure bill or not
//because he has never helped anybody who isn't a donor in his whole goddamn life
///we still remember Merrick Garland's nomination, you dumb biatch
 
2021-09-14 4:00:42 PM  

Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.


It did; the recession started before the pandemic, back in November 2019.
 
2021-09-14 4:01:55 PM  
Manchin needs a good ol' fashioned West Virginny facefarkin.
 
2021-09-14 4:03:21 PM  
This piece of debt ceiling performance art happens every time the conflict date approaches, no matter who is in power, and eventually the debt ceiling is always raised. Why give this story oxygen?
 
2021-09-14 4:04:06 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Nadie_AZ: GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..

Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.

We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We have to raise taxes on some people by about 50%, we have to cut spending on shiat like Defense by 50% or more and we have to find a way to do this without crashing the economy all at the same time...

This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.


Government debt doesn't really matter with the size of the US economy. If the US taxed corporations without the massive loopholes and effectively taxed the top 1% the US can increase the quality of life for all Americans without any tax increase on 95% of Americans. The only issue is the willingness to act in the best interest of Americans, there is plenty of money in the US to pay.

/USD still reserve currency of the world
// Oil still priced and traded in USD
/// Are US T-bill paying single digits for interest? Yes
 
2021-09-14 4:04:37 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

He can say this because he's got two Democratic senators on payroll


I essentially called Manchin a DINO in the Dana Bash thread and got piled on by the Fark Progressives for daring to besmirch him. Apparently, he's a Democrat through-and-through, from a long line of Democrats. and you'd be crazy to suggest otherwise.
 
2021-09-14 4:04:38 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Nadie_AZ: GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..

Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.

We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We ...


Nah, rich people have been getting all the goodies while the poor have been getting crumbs for that entire 30 years.

This time, we fix the budget by taxing the rich, the poor got farked by the Trump Tax Cuts, so now it's time to leave them completely out of the barrel this go-around.
 
2021-09-14 4:05:05 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Nadie_AZ: GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..

Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.

We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We have to raise taxes on some people by about 50%, we have to cut spending on shiat like Defense by 50% or more and we have to find a way to do this without crashing the economy all at the same time...

This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.


We're not in a hole. There's always money for defense contractors.
 
2021-09-14 4:05:10 PM  

Dels: This piece of debt ceiling performance art happens every time the conflict date approaches, no matter who is in power, and eventually the debt ceiling is always raised. Why give this story oxygen?


The government has shut down before. That is always a very, very, very bad thing.
 
2021-09-14 4:06:15 PM  

Nadie_AZ: NewportBarGuy: This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.

Climate change is going to cause pain in ways economists are in denial about. I see the Pandemic as both a part of that and a window into how nations are going to react to a changing climate. I agree. I don't have a lot of faith in those who are in power, economically or politically.

There was a quote I read about WWI. I can't recall it exactly but it was along the lines of "England couldn't consider not going to war because of the impact on their economy when in the long run they would have been happy to ONLY lose their economy". I am going to look for it, as I think it is very applicable both to the Pandemic, Climate Change and the looming debt crash.


Look at what happened to just the skylines of large cities when we shut down for those many months. The difference is so blindingly obvious. Then we went right back at it 110% to make up for lost time.

We learn nothing. It's frustrating to watch.
 
2021-09-14 4:06:29 PM  

NewportBarGuy: We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We have to raise taxes on some people by about 50%, we have to cut spending on shiat like Defense by 50% or more and we have to find a way to do this without crashing the economy all at the same time...

This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.


First of all, this is all actually VERY easy to fix.  But the government is simply incapable of doing what is right.

We do NOT have cashflow problems.  We do not have problems finding money for whatever we need it for.  The money is always there when we need to build a border wall, drop more bombs, or keep millions of people in prison.  The money is there to support expenditures of politicians who don't do their jobs.

We could fix ALL of the financial problems in this country from healthcare to poverty to upticks in crime.  The entire solution is to come up with new ways to allocate our funds.

But this cannot and will not EVER happen, because the government itself IS the problem.  They won't fix themselves.  If the government were actually functioning, we would be able to enact some new policies that would put the whole country on a better path.  But it cannot happen without a massive housecleaning of the government.  All the things that the government is actively preventing from happening.  Do you think it's a coincidence that they can't seem to get a voter protection bill going?  It's almost like neither side really wants that.

In short, it's just not going to happen.  And all the things you suggested there about how you think they could fix this are all completely incorrect.  And it doesn't matter.  Because they won't do what you suggested either.

The next 20 years?  Pffft...  20 years from now the exact same problems will still be here.  Because the government doesn't really have any interest in fixing them.
 
2021-09-14 4:08:32 PM  
The Democrats should do it. They won't.

So I hope the US defaults.
 
2021-09-14 4:09:22 PM  
The party of "No" -- even the stuff they pass in Congress is "no" taxes
 
2021-09-14 4:10:43 PM  

Original: McConnell: "Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling." He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.


"This needs to be done, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna do it."

// why do people think this is a good or smart way to govern?
 
2021-09-14 4:10:48 PM  
Gin Buddy:

I essentially called Manchin a DINO in the Dana Bash thread and got piled on by the Fark Progressives for daring to besmirch him.

I was in that thread.  The only people attacking folks for criticising Manchin were the resident Very Concerned Democrats who show up to defend Manchin's honour in every thread that features him in a headline.
 
2021-09-14 4:12:37 PM  
I mean, a disorderly default is basically the only realistic plan the GOP has for dealing with the US national debt.

They'd prefer having the Republic of Gilead repudiate the "theft bonds" of the United States---bringing down  (((global finance))) with it---but a default on a Democrat's watch is better than nothing.
 
2021-09-14 4:14:49 PM  

Gin Buddy: HotWingConspiracy: He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

He can say this because he's got two Democratic senators on payroll

I essentially called Manchin a DINO in the Dana Bash thread and got piled on by the Fark Progressives for daring to besmirch him. Apparently, he's a Democrat through-and-through, from a long line of Democrats. and you'd be crazy to suggest otherwise.


Most "Fark Progressives" are actually right-wing agitators who aim to sow division among progressives by any means necessary.
 
2021-09-14 4:17:23 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Original: McConnell: "Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling." He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

"This needs to be done, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna do it."

// why do people think this is a good or smart way to govern?


McConnell's handlers don't care.  They just want to loot as much as possible before everything collapses and they have to retreat to their guarded mansions.
 
2021-09-14 4:18:34 PM  
Most "Fark Progressives" are actually right-wing agitators

lol keep telling yourself that, just because your dogshiat political beliefs are indefensible from the left
 
2021-09-14 4:19:07 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Nadie_AZ: GardenWeasel: Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.

The GOP also only gave it a 2 year limit because they were hedging their bets they would lose and could use it as leverage against Dems this year..

Didn't the Dems control the House? They signed off on it. I'm not BSAB here, I'm simply stating that both parties were ok with the suspension while Trump was rampaging.

We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We ...


And this has jack and all to do with what you are talking about.  This is the debt ceiling.  The amount the government is allowed to borrow to cover its expenses.  Those are expenses we have already incurred.  Cutting the budget?  Fine.  Rejiggering taxes?  Fine.  Those will not change the money we owe now.  And refusing to raise the debt limit is not "some pain".  It essentially crashes the economy into flinders.  Per the Constitution, the US cannot refuse to pay back debts.  At all.  So, when the interest on T-bills comes due, we have to pay that money.  Even if we have to liquidate all other government spending to do it.  Do you have any idea what a complete abrogation of US federal spending entails?  It isn't "poor people suffer" - it is "poor people die", because many rely directly or indirectly on federal funds to survive - as do many of the middle class and many of the rich.  You aren't having people put skin in the game - you're skinning them alive for no reason whatsoever.

If we can't pay off T-bill payments after slashing every other cent of government spending, we will never get money to pay for anything again.  The US's "we pay no matter what" status is what means people want to park their money in the US.  During the Obama years, the interest rates for T-Bills was negative.  That means the US made you a solemn promise you would lose money if you gave it to us - give us $100 and we would guarantee you that at the end of 3 years we would hand you back $97 and just keep thee $3 for funsies.  And people willingly and eagerly bought under those terms.  Like crawled over each other to give us their money.  Because they knew that they would have $97 in their hot little hands after 3 years, come hell or high water.  There is no one else giving that level of security on repayment in the world.  If you are worried you might lose more than $3 for every $100, you parked it with us and sat back satisfied you could do no worse than $97.  That just ends if we can't pay.  Because we aren't trustworthy anymore.  Just as well give your money to Crazy Wally down on thee street corner for safekeeping.  And that puts paid to pretty much all government spending for the rest of the century.  You can just start stacking the poor like cordwood in a Montana woodshed at that point.

Not raising the debt ceiling is likened to refusing to pay your credit card debt.  It is more akin to deliberately quitting your job by setting your boss on fire and then going to rape the credit card company's owner's favorite corgi in front of him just to avoid paying next month's bill.  You want to reform thee US federal financial process?  Knock yourself out.  But you aren't doing anything but setting the entire US on fire by refusing to raise the debt ceiling.
 
2021-09-14 4:19:11 PM  

eurotrader: Ok, suspension of the debt ceiling will be included in budget reconciliation.


Pelosi has said they won't include it. Instead they are going to have it be a seperate bill and dare Senate Republicans to filibuster it. Surely they wouldn't risk defaulting the nation in a move that low information voters will entirely blame Democrats for not fixing if they have the majority, right?
 
2021-09-14 4:22:22 PM  

NewportBarGuy: We have financially gotten ourselves into a hole so f*cking deep the only way out is going to cause pain. Pain on rich people and pain on poor people.

We've had EASY years for the past 30 goddamn years of nothing but tax cuts and putting off any kind of hardships for most people... (Yeah, poor people on SNAP and govt workers who got no pay increase) but mostly we just cut taxes and kept spending like insane people. Obama tried to reign it in, and the Republicans said Nein... Democrats didn;t fight that hard because doing the real things like tax hikes and spending cuts WILL kill some jobs and will hurt the economy in the short term.

There's no way around it... We have to raise taxes on some people by about 50%, we have to cut spending on shiat like Defense by 50% or more and we have to find a way to do this without crashing the economy all at the same time...

This is NOT going to be a fun next 20 years.


There are a lot of problems in this country, and in the world, going on right now.

The debt is not one of them.
 
2021-09-14 4:22:26 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Original: McConnell: "Republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling." He says it needs to be done but Democrats need to do it on their own because they're pursuing a multi-trillion dollar bill.

"This needs to be done, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna do it."

// why do people think this is a good or smart way to govern?


...because Trump got credit for being a master negotiator that Democrats went along with him on most issues of domestic policy to show they were willing to be bipartisan but when Republicans intentionally block Biden's plans it is seen as Biden's failure?
 
2021-09-14 4:24:17 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

"Who am I? Why am I here? I miss my cows?"
 
2021-09-14 4:31:33 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Most "Fark Progressives" are actually right-wing agitators

lol keep telling yourself that, just because your dogshiat political beliefs are indefensible from the left


Thanks for proving my point, comrade.
 
2021-09-14 4:32:11 PM  

Nadie_AZ: In August 2019, policymakers enacted a bipartisan budget deal that raised spending levels and suspended the debt limit for two years. On August 1, 2021, the debt limit was reinstated at a level covering all borrowing that occurred during the suspension.

They did this BEFORE the Pandemic.

Wall Street was having a bad month of August in 2019:

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/14/stock-​markets-wall-street-in-focus-amid-earn​ings-economic-data.html

"Historically speaking the inversion of that benchmark yield curve measure means that we now must expect a recession anywhere from six-to-18 months from today which will drastically, and negatively, shift our medium-to-longer term outlook on the broader markets," Tom Essaye, founder of The Sevens Report, said in a note on Wednesday.

So they were preparing for a recession. I wonder if it would have happened regardless of the Pandemic.


Yes. The recession that was on its way got papered over by the pandemic stuff. Remember the trade war and whatnot. It was starting to have knock-on effects in late 2019.

You can see the numbers I was looking at then: Assets: Other: Repurchase Agreements: Wednesday Level (WORAL) | FRED | St. Louis Fed (stlouisfed.org)
 
2021-09-14 4:33:38 PM  

austerity101: Dels: This piece of debt ceiling performance art happens every time the conflict date approaches, no matter who is in power, and eventually the debt ceiling is always raised. Why give this story oxygen?

The government has shut down before. That is always a very, very, very bad thing.


Shutdowns come from a failure to pass either a budget or some kind of continuing resolution. The debt ceiling issue is Congress deciding if they'll pay for the stuff they bought with the previous budget. Letting that slip will mean we don't pay our bills, which will crash the credit rating of US securities and make our debt prices increase dramatically. It would likely also impact our ability to raise money and likely will take a giant dump on everyone's 401k, erasing billions or more of accumulated wealth and savings, especially across the middle class who have no other retirement available to them.
 
2021-09-14 4:34:28 PM  

Gin Buddy: I essentially called Manchin a DINO in the Dana Bash thread and got piled on by the Fark Progressives for daring to besmirch him.


Got a link to that thread?  Because I do not believe you.
 
2021-09-14 4:34:37 PM  
Americans are united in opposition to your not DYING IN A FIRE, ON TELEVISION, TODAY.

Evil scum piece of dog shiat.
 
2021-09-14 4:35:49 PM  
Thanks for proving my point, comrade.

Thanks for proving mine, that you are incapable of political thought any deeper than "all Republicans bad, therefore anyone bad = Republican"
 
2021-09-14 4:36:06 PM  

Grungehamster: eurotrader: Ok, suspension of the debt ceiling will be included in budget reconciliation.

Pelosi has said they won't include it. Instead they are going to have it be a seperate bill and dare Senate Republicans to filibuster it. Surely they wouldn't risk defaulting the nation in a move that low information voters will entirely blame Democrats for not fixing if they have the majority, right?


And Schumer has said it may be included. If Dems get a reconciliation bill from the Senate to vote on that has immigration,health care and climate change for about 3.5 trillion over 10 years Nancy may try to make the Senate including republicans do their job. Once reconciliation passes republicans can't keep government closed for long. Besides the Treasury Secretary saying when the limit is reached, what is the enforcement means to keep Treasury from just continuing to pay bills already voted on,passed and signed by a President. Another option is just to ignore the debt ceiling in the similar manner fatboy and republicans ignored or broke a bunch of  laws during his term.
 
2021-09-14 4:37:09 PM  
Apparently 'Dine and Dash' is a core Republican value.  If you ever do business with a Republican and any level, make sure you get cash up front.
 
2021-09-14 4:38:15 PM  
So he is just trying to waste time in Senate. They will refuse to give unanimous consent, so the Senate will have to do 3 days of "debate" that they then can't use for passing other bills or confirming nominees. He knows the Democrats will raise it on their own and is just being his usual obstructionist self. His donors won't let the Republicans actually block the raise because it would destroy the bond market and with it the economy.
 
2021-09-14 4:38:23 PM  
The far right loonies want us to default. I guess the mentality is that if they can't control the federal government, they'll destroy it instead.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we default during Biden's term so that can try to pretend it's all his fault.
 
2021-09-14 4:38:26 PM  

anfrind: ElwoodCuse: Most "Fark Progressives" are actually right-wing agitators

lol keep telling yourself that, just because your dogshiat political beliefs are indefensible from the left

Thanks for proving my point, comrade.


How did the post you are replying to prove the "point" you were attempting to make in your initial statement?
 
2021-09-14 4:39:11 PM  

PlaidJaguar: Gin Buddy: I essentially called Manchin a DINO in the Dana Bash thread and got piled on by the Fark Progressives for daring to besmirch him.

Got a link to that thread?  Because I do not believe you.


Page 6:

All I've done in these threads is point out that the real Democrats don't have a majority because Manchin isn't and never was a Democrat. He's a Republican in WV who figured out he'd get more votes, and probably more campaign money, if he ran as a Democrat. That's just farking reality.


Starting on page 7 we get his Wiki page and it continues from there.
 
2021-09-14 4:41:12 PM  

eurotrader: Grungehamster: eurotrader: Ok, suspension of the debt ceiling will be included in budget reconciliation.

Pelosi has said they won't include it. Instead they are going to have it be a seperate bill and dare Senate Republicans to filibuster it. Surely they wouldn't risk defaulting the nation in a move that low information voters will entirely blame Democrats for not fixing if they have the majority, right?

And Schumer has said it may be included. If Dems get a reconciliation bill from the Senate to vote on that has immigration,health care and climate change for about 3.5 trillion over 10 years Nancy may try to make the Senate including republicans do their job. Once reconciliation passes republicans can't keep government closed for long. Besides the Treasury Secretary saying when the limit is reached, what is the enforcement means to keep Treasury from just continuing to pay bills already voted on,passed and signed by a President. Another option is just to ignore the debt ceiling in the similar manner fatboy and republicans ignored or broke a bunch of  laws during his term.


How about a rider (in the reconciliation bill) that re-couples the debt limit to appropriations? Or, how about an understanding that the debt limit is a stupid idea, so we should just ignore it from now on.

How does it make ANY sense for Congress to call for spending money, by law, and not have that be an explicit order to the US Treasury to borrow that money if they don't have it on hand?

// what purpose does the debt limit serve, if not so that we can have this dumbassed fight over nothing every few years?
 
2021-09-14 4:43:02 PM  

Dr Dreidel: eurotrader: Grungehamster: eurotrader: Ok, suspension of the debt ceiling will be included in budget reconciliation.

Pelosi has said they won't include it. Instead they are going to have it be a seperate bill and dare Senate Republicans to filibuster it. Surely they wouldn't risk defaulting the nation in a move that low information voters will entirely blame Democrats for not fixing if they have the majority, right?

And Schumer has said it may be included. If Dems get a reconciliation bill from the Senate to vote on that has immigration,health care and climate change for about 3.5 trillion over 10 years Nancy may try to make the Senate including republicans do their job. Once reconciliation passes republicans can't keep government closed for long. Besides the Treasury Secretary saying when the limit is reached, what is the enforcement means to keep Treasury from just continuing to pay bills already voted on,passed and signed by a President. Another option is just to ignore the debt ceiling in the similar manner fatboy and republicans ignored or broke a bunch of  laws during his term.

How about a rider (in the reconciliation bill) that re-couples the debt limit to appropriations? Or, how about an understanding that the debt limit is a stupid idea, so we should just ignore it from now on.

How does it make ANY sense for Congress to call for spending money, by law, and not have that be an explicit order to the US Treasury to borrow that money if they don't have it on hand?

// what purpose does the debt limit serve, if not so that we can have this dumbassed fight over nothing every few years?


IIRC, the debt limit stems from Congress abrogating it's job of paying bills individually. So it would sorta make sense that abrogating this fits their past behavior.
 
2021-09-14 4:44:50 PM  

anfrind: Most "Fark Progressives" are actually right-wing agitators who aim to sow division among progressives by any means necessary.


To be fair, a non-trivial number of actual progressives seem also exist to sow division among progressives by any means necessary.
How do you tell them apart?
 
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