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(Tom's Hardware)   Intel finally moves past denial and reaches acceptance   (tomshardware.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, X86, Marketing, Advanced Micro Devices, Supply and demand, AMD's CPU supply, increase year, much bigger CPU rival, Intel  
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1686 clicks; posted to STEM » and Business » on 14 Sep 2021 at 4:10 PM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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5 days ago  
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5 days ago  
Note how there's no mention of actual price on a server CPU.

That's because the average person would shiat their pants just looking at the pricing matrix.

I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

The cheapest processor listed was an Intel Xeon Silver 4210R processor with 10 cores at 2.4GHz at $859. Which is probably enough for a low level single server.
The most expensive was an Intel Xeon Platinum 8280L with 28 cores at 2.7GHz for a, get this, whopping $32,699. Each. Figure most servers can have dual procs, that's SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS in just processors.

For the list that I have, there's 54 different CPU models and the overall average price is just under $7,500 per processor.

A Cisco UCS blade system chassis has 8 dual proc blades in it. That's a half million dollars to fully populate that chassis with the biggest processor, at the "average" it would be $120k, but most of the better end procs are $10k+. And that's not even the cost of the chassis, blades themselves, or RAM.

So yea, people would really like a good alternative, if for nothing else than to make Intel lower their prices from astronomical to just asinine. I haven't seen any new prices, but not holding my breath.

I wish I could convince higher ups to try AMD.

\Only run AMD at home
\\
\\\
 
5 days ago  
Intel's most dense CPU solution is 40 cores at a pretty eye-watering price point.  AMD has been chuckling with their 64 core Epycs for well over a year now, for cheaper to boot.  The future is team red, at least for the next couple years until Intel can figure out how to be competitive when there's another competitor around.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.


Without going too deep into things, no one pays list price for servers except if they go to get shagged by outfits like CDW.  Go with a real provider like Dell or Cisco directly, or HPE if you like locked-in abuse.
 
5 days ago  
I've been running AMD at home for decades, just because.  Work was generally IBM, Sun and HP, but that was almost 20 years ago.
 
5 days ago  

BumpInTheNight: logieal: I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

Without going too deep into things, no one pays list price for servers except if they go to get shagged by outfits like CDW.  Go with a real provider like Dell or Cisco directly, or HPE if you like locked-in abuse.


When you deal with the government, it has to go through 3rd party.
 
5 days ago  
Given how slow hardware adoption is in the server space, I'd say they're just in time for most businesses who were planning their upgrades right before AMD's upturn.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: BumpInTheNight: logieal: I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

Without going too deep into things, no one pays list price for servers except if they go to get shagged by outfits like CDW.  Go with a real provider like Dell or Cisco directly, or HPE if you like locked-in abuse.

When you deal with the government, it has to go through 3rd party.


Yep I know, and no one pays anywhere close to full price if they go through a proper arrangement.  Like the Canadian government has our PISA standing offers with all the major vendors and reputable resellers will be a small bump in the final price point of a procurement after the PISA pricing.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: BumpInTheNight: logieal: I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

Without going too deep into things, no one pays list price for servers except if they go to get shagged by outfits like CDW.  Go with a real provider like Dell or Cisco directly, or HPE if you like locked-in abuse.

When you deal with the government, it has to go through 3rd party.


even with CDW it's as simple as asking what discounts they offer.
 
5 days ago  
This is kinda a big deal because before they would offer tiered discounts, marketing dollars, and other incentives but that no longer appears to be enough.

Probably because the only way to get competitive performance from latest chips is to go way above AMD in terms of power usage.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: Note how there's no mention of actual price on a server CPU.

That's because the average person would shiat their pants just looking at the pricing matrix.

I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

The cheapest processor listed was an Intel Xeon Silver 4210R processor with 10 cores at 2.4GHz at $859. Which is probably enough for a low level single server.
The most expensive was an Intel Xeon Platinum 8280L with 28 cores at 2.7GHz for a, get this, whopping $32,699. Each. Figure most servers can have dual procs, that's SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS in just processors.

For the list that I have, there's 54 different CPU models and the overall average price is just under $7,500 per processor.

A Cisco UCS blade system chassis has 8 dual proc blades in it. That's a half million dollars to fully populate that chassis with the biggest processor, at the "average" it would be $120k, but most of the better end procs are $10k+. And that's not even the cost of the chassis, blades themselves, or RAM.

So yea, people would really like a good alternative, if for nothing else than to make Intel lower their prices from astronomical to just asinine. I haven't seen any new prices, but not holding my breath.

I wish I could convince higher ups to try AMD.

\Only run AMD at home
\\
\\\


So, I work for a municipality in IT. We have about 19K people in our town and run our operations on 12 core silver Xeons with 32GB of ram and 8TB of storage on each server. We use about ten servers for various departments and services. Those silver level Xeons are way more powerful than people give them credit for.

We have one gold level Xeon that runs a very specific service, and the only reason why it's a gold is because that is what the vendor said we would need. That's because their software sucks ass and hogs resources unnecessarily.

I run our landfill SQL, HR SQL, and asset management SQL with some other side services off of one of those servers with it hardly even registering on CPU and using about 50% of the memory. I have a network of about 200 nodes and about the same amount of users.

Now, granted large scale global organizations are going to need gold and platinum, but most operations of small to medium business sizes don't. I server up GIS services publicly too off that same server.

Specs and pricing are insane and way oversold to most customers.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: BumpInTheNight: logieal: I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

Without going too deep into things, no one pays list price for servers except if they go to get shagged by outfits like CDW.  Go with a real provider like Dell or Cisco directly, or HPE if you like locked-in abuse.

When you deal with the government, it has to go through 3rd party.


LOL, I got these for about $3700 two years ago. I had budgeted $6500. So doubled up and have spares! I couldn't believe it.
 
5 days ago  

iaazathot: So, I work for a municipality in IT. We have about 19K people in our town and run our operations on 12 core silver Xeons with 32GB of ram and 8TB of storage on each server. We use about ten servers for various departments and services. Those silver level Xeons are way more powerful than people give them credit for.

We have one gold level Xeon that runs a very specific service, and the only reason why it's a gold is because that is what the vendor said we would need. That's because their software sucks ass and hogs resources unnecessarily.

I run our landfill SQL, HR SQL, and asset management SQL with some other side services off of one of those servers with it hardly even registering on CPU and using about 50% of the memory. I have a network of about 200 nodes and about the same amount of users.

Now, granted large scale global organizations are going to need gold and platinum, but most operations of small to medium business sizes don't. I server up GIS services publicly too off that same server.

Specs and pricing are insane and way oversold to most customers.


I'm guessing by the mention of the local storage you don't virtualize your servers eh?  Any reason why not?  I absolutely lurve the freedom and advantages you get once you can swing a virtual machine load onto another host with the click of a button.  Gotta update the firmware?  Send through a rolling maintenance loop that shuffles everything around so that each server gets its reboot without anyone even knowing you did it.
 
5 days ago  
And to stay with the topic, that's one of my hold ups for not rapidly mass adopting AMD is the initial pain point of not being able to hot-migrate loads from the current Intel clusters onto new AMD clusters due to the different CPU arches.
 
5 days ago  

BumpInTheNight: Yep I know, and no one pays anywhere close to full price if they go through a proper arrangement. Like the Canadian government has our PISA standing offers with all the major vendors and reputable resellers will be a small bump in the final price point of a procurement after the PISA pricing.


Intone: even with CDW it's as simple as asking what discounts they offer.


I'm not arguing that the prices aren't insane, or about asking for discounts. These are the prices we would have received on equipment purchased at that time. From CDW-G, not retail, wholesale, or whatever. Our cost, line item, on a built out system purchased through them . I asked for from our rep, who we purchase a lot from, to give me some prices for comparison on a system I was quoting and he sent me a whole page from his spreadsheet on what my actual cost for each one that he would choose from.
We can and do ask for discounts and sometimes receive them, but we also are usually already getting the best deal at the time for our purchase volume.
 
5 days ago  

BumpInTheNight: iaazathot: So, I work for a municipality in IT. We have about 19K people in our town and run our operations on 12 core silver Xeons with 32GB of ram and 8TB of storage on each server. We use about ten servers for various departments and services. Those silver level Xeons are way more powerful than people give them credit for.

We have one gold level Xeon that runs a very specific service, and the only reason why it's a gold is because that is what the vendor said we would need. That's because their software sucks ass and hogs resources unnecessarily.

I run our landfill SQL, HR SQL, and asset management SQL with some other side services off of one of those servers with it hardly even registering on CPU and using about 50% of the memory. I have a network of about 200 nodes and about the same amount of users.

Now, granted large scale global organizations are going to need gold and platinum, but most operations of small to medium business sizes don't. I server up GIS services publicly too off that same server.

Specs and pricing are insane and way oversold to most customers.

I'm guessing by the mention of the local storage you don't virtualize your servers eh?  Any reason why not?  I absolutely lurve the freedom and advantages you get once you can swing a virtual machine load onto another host with the click of a button.  Gotta update the firmware?  Send through a rolling maintenance loop that shuffles everything around so that each server gets its reboot without anyone even knowing you did it.


You aren't wrong. I was following predecessors, and I am looking at using these to decrease our physical footprint in the future. To be honest, our load is light. So, I am looking at moving things to VM and having a ton of spares!

I could definitely be using more VMs. Up until two weeks ago, I was running this whole city IT by myself for years. Now I have help and can look at changing that footprint. Changes in leadership finally recognized the huge point of failure that was me and spent some money. Ah, rural budgets and "it (me getting hit by a bus) will never happen" type thinking...
 
5 days ago  

logieal: BumpInTheNight: Yep I know, and no one pays anywhere close to full price if they go through a proper arrangement. Like the Canadian government has our PISA standing offers with all the major vendors and reputable resellers will be a small bump in the final price point of a procurement after the PISA pricing.

Intone: even with CDW it's as simple as asking what discounts they offer.

I'm not arguing that the prices aren't insane, or about asking for discounts. These are the prices we would have received on equipment purchased at that time. From CDW-G, not retail, wholesale, or whatever. Our cost, line item, on a built out system purchased through them . I asked for from our rep, who we purchase a lot from, to give me some prices for comparison on a system I was quoting and he sent me a whole page from his spreadsheet on what my actual cost for each one that he would choose from.
We can and do ask for discounts and sometimes receive them, but we also are usually already getting the best deal at the time for our purchase volume.


And just to be clear, the processor I ended up choosing for the quote was a Xenon Platinum 8260 with 24 cores at 2.4 GHz and a to me cost of $8,099. 8 of them.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: I'm not arguing that the prices aren't insane, or about asking for discounts. These are the prices we would have received on equipment purchased at that time. From CDW-G, not retail, wholesale, or whatever. Our cost, line item, on a built out system purchased through them . I asked for from our rep, who we purchase a lot from, to give me some prices for comparison on a system I was quoting and he sent me a whole page from his spreadsheet on what my actual cost for each one that he would choose from.
We can and do ask for discounts and sometimes receive them, but we also are usually already getting the best deal at the time for our purchase volume


Okay so maybe I operate in a different sphere of government IT procurement, but as an experiment the next time you want to buy some servers, go directly to the vendor and ask them to quote you through a reseller just to see what happens.

Do your procurements have to go through a bidding process?  Probably as you mentioned needing to involve resellers.  All I'm saying is go to the source and let them pick the most favourable reseller to generate the quote just to see what shakes out of that, you will likely be in for an eye-opener, at least as long as the vendor's sales person isn't in cahoots with CDW.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: And just to be clear, the processor I ended up choosing for the quote was a Xenon Platinum 8260 with 24 cores at 2.4 GHz and a to me cost of $8,099. 8 of them.


Nice I'm pretty sure that's the same model I'd picked for what's the current bulk of my ESX hosts, just a couple SKUs away from the peak of the stack can save some serious cash.

iaazathot: You aren't wrong. I was following predecessors, and I am looking at using these to decrease our physical footprint in the future. To be honest, our load is light. So, I am looking at moving things to VM and having a ton of spares!

I could definitely be using more VMs. Up until two weeks ago, I was running this whole city IT by myself for years. Now I have help and can look at changing that footprint. Changes in leadership finally recognized the huge point of failure that was me and spent some money. Ah, rural budgets and "it (me getting hit by a bus) will never happen" type thinking...


The typical VMs I corral are fairly light too so its easy to pack them in tight, I find I run up against RAM constraints before CPU.  The one new factor with going virtualization clusters is now you gotta incorporate shared storage via NFS/iSCSI or Fiber Channel...or you pay the insane VSAN tax to VMware if you go that route to keep the storage local.

I also adore the snapshot feature of virtualization, nothing like a redo button being setup prior to trying something dodgy.
 
5 days ago  

BumpInTheNight: logieal: And just to be clear, the processor I ended up choosing for the quote was a Xenon Platinum 8260 with 24 cores at 2.4 GHz and a to me cost of $8,099. 8 of them.

Nice I'm pretty sure that's the same model I'd picked for what's the current bulk of my ESX hosts, just a couple SKUs away from the peak of the stack can save some serious cash.

iaazathot: You aren't wrong. I was following predecessors, and I am looking at using these to decrease our physical footprint in the future. To be honest, our load is light. So, I am looking at moving things to VM and having a ton of spares!

I could definitely be using more VMs. Up until two weeks ago, I was running this whole city IT by myself for years. Now I have help and can look at changing that footprint. Changes in leadership finally recognized the huge point of failure that was me and spent some money. Ah, rural budgets and "it (me getting hit by a bus) will never happen" type thinking...

The typical VMs I corral are fairly light too so its easy to pack them in tight, I find I run up against RAM constraints before CPU.  The one new factor with going virtualization clusters is now you gotta incorporate shared storage via NFS/iSCSI or Fiber Channel...or you pay the insane VSAN tax to VMware if you go that route to keep the storage local.


Yeah, the most expensive isn't necessarily the best cost/compute wise. That is also broken down on the spreadsheet I have.

We have ESXi 6.7 running with NFS storage. It's been okay, but the current storage we have has some... issues. It's in the process of being replaced... I mean, I'm in the process of replacing it, since somehow I've become point on storage.

I also adore the snapshot feature of virtualization, nothing like a redo button being setup prior to trying something dodgy.

Snapshots are great, but repeat after me: "Snapshots are not backups."
They can quickly grow and cause issues on larger systems if you have lots of active snaps.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: Note how there's no mention of actual price on a server CPU.

That's because the average person would shiat their pants just looking at the pricing matrix.

I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

The cheapest processor listed was an Intel Xeon Silver 4210R processor with 10 cores at 2.4GHz at $859. Which is probably enough for a low level single server.
The most expensive was an Intel Xeon Platinum 8280L with 28 cores at 2.7GHz for a, get this, whopping $32,699. Each. Figure most servers can have dual procs, that's SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS in just processors.

For the list that I have, there's 54 different CPU models and the overall average price is just under $7,500 per processor.

A Cisco UCS blade system chassis has 8 dual proc blades in it. That's a half million dollars to fully populate that chassis with the biggest processor, at the "average" it would be $120k, but most of the better end procs are $10k+. And that's not even the cost of the chassis, blades themselves, or RAM.

So yea, people would really like a good alternative, if for nothing else than to make Intel lower their prices from astronomical to just asinine. I haven't seen any new prices, but not holding my breath.

I wish I could convince higher ups to try AMD.

\Only run AMD at home
\\
\\\


You need to convince them that AMD will open their e-mails faster, and get more frames per second in Minesweeper and Solitaire.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: Yeah, the most expensive isn't necessarily the best cost/compute wise. That is also broken down on the spreadsheet I have.

We have ESXi 6.7 running with NFS storage. It's been okay, but the current storage we have has some... issues. It's in the process of being replaced... I mean, I'm in the process of replacing it, since somehow I've become point on storage.

I also adore the snapshot feature of virtualization, nothing like a redo button being setup prior to trying something dodgy.

Snapshots are great, but repeat after me: "Snapshots are not backups."
They can quickly grow and cause issues on larger systems if you have lots of active snaps.


LOL there was a dev environment my area inherited where they literally were running daily snapshots with them building up as their form of backup, against a little 2RU spinning rust storage array...it was a multi-day process to let the snapshots merge to undo that damage per VM.
 
5 days ago  
I've been researching a new build for my home PC, everything I've been reading has been pointing me towards going AMD which will put me on team red for the first time in decades.

I really just need a new video card, it was the one major component I salvaged from my last rig... at this point if I'm going to replace that I might as well bring everything else up to spec.
 
5 days ago  

logieal: Note how there's no mention of actual price on a server CPU.

That's because the average person would shiat their pants just looking at the pricing matrix.

I got an Intel pricing sheet from CDW back in March of this year. No, I'm not going to post it, as it's on my work computer. But, I'll give you a quick rundown.

The cheapest processor listed was an Intel Xeon Silver 4210R processor with 10 cores at 2.4GHz at $859. Which is probably enough for a low level single server.
The most expensive was an Intel Xeon Platinum 8280L with 28 cores at 2.7GHz for a, get this, whopping $32,699. Each. Figure most servers can have dual procs, that's SIXTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS in just processors.

For the list that I have, there's 54 different CPU models and the overall average price is just under $7,500 per processor.

A Cisco UCS blade system chassis has 8 dual proc blades in it. That's a half million dollars to fully populate that chassis with the biggest processor, at the "average" it would be $120k, but most of the better end procs are $10k+. And that's not even the cost of the chassis, blades themselves, or RAM.

So yea, people would really like a good alternative, if for nothing else than to make Intel lower their prices from astronomical to just asinine. I haven't seen any new prices, but not holding my breath.

I wish I could convince higher ups to try AMD.

\Only run AMD at home
\\
\\\


Pricing info is, and always has been, on ark.intel.com.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/​e​n/ark/products/192472/intel-xeon-plati​num-8280l-processor-38-5m-cache-2-70-g​hz.html
 
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