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(MSNBC)   Democrats propose new voting rights bill that Emperor Manchin hasn't reneged on yet   (msnbc.com) divider line
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746 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2021 at 3:42 PM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-14 1:11:42 PM  
What if the Dems just sat Manchin down and said "okay, what are x donating to you and if we match it will you come around to actual governance for the people?"  Then they create a GoFundme because God Bless America.

I'd say 'sarcasm' but part of me wonders if that's the only legit solution.
 
2021-09-14 2:51:22 PM  
From what I've been hearing reported recently, he seems to only care about his next election. So you might be on to something. They can promise cash. They can promise not to support any other Democrats for his seat. They'd probably be wise to do both anyways, as they'll never get another Democrat elected other than him in that state. So win-win. Give him cash and promises.
 
2021-09-14 2:52:01 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: From what I've been hearing reported recently, he seems to only care about his next election. So you might be on to something. They can promise cash. They can promise not to support any other Democrats for his seat. They'd probably be wise to do both anyways, as they'll never get another Democrat elected other than him in that state. So win-win. Give him cash and promises.


That was meant to quote Wadded Beef.
 
2021-09-14 3:26:15 PM  
Nothing. Nothing will happen because you need 60 votes in the Senate because Manchin and Sinema won't help kill the idiotic filibuster.
 
2021-09-14 3:45:58 PM  
He's got a lot of enthusiasm for the merits of bills that he knows won't pass because of his modus operandi in the senate.
 
2021-09-14 3:46:49 PM  
Didn't we just do this thread like 6 threads ago?
 
2021-09-14 3:47:56 PM  
Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.
 
2021-09-14 3:48:11 PM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: From what I've been hearing reported recently, he seems to only care about his next election. So you might be on to something. They can promise cash. They can promise not to support any other Democrats for his seat. They'd probably be wise to do both anyways, as they'll never get another Democrat elected other than him in that state. So win-win. Give him cash and promises.


Then don't actually do any of those things when his re-election comes up.  And when he loses, ask him how it feels.
 
2021-09-14 3:49:46 PM  

danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.


I question the wisdom of rewarding this kind of behavior.  I prefer the stick to the carrot, in this instance.  "Get in line, or else."  Has a better ring to it than "pwetty pweese get in line.  is diss enough monees sir?"
 
2021-09-14 3:50:27 PM  
In July, Virginia's Mark Warner, a moderate Senate Democrat, publicly endorsed just such a carve-out, saying Americans' voting rights are so fundamentally important to our system of government, this is "the only area" in which he'd support an exception to the chamber's existing filibuster rules.

I'd missed this additional senator publicly stating his support for the stupid farking antimajoritarian, minority rule defending filibuster in every instance but this one.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he's willing to make an exception. But fark Senator Mark Warner for supporting the filibuster that makes the US Senate a dysfunctional shiathole where bills go to die. Go fark yourself, Mark. I hope you get primaried. Virginia is fairly blue these days. Democrats can win with someone else. It's past time to be voting for Democratic candidates who still support the farking filibuster.
 
2021-09-14 3:52:40 PM  

danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 3:54:10 PM  
And don't give me a ration of shiat that republicans will do that, if the democrats do this.

There's ample evidence that they'll do anything, everything be damned, to gain or maintain power. They never, ever, under any circumstance, operate in good faith.

It doesn't matter what concessions are made, or what deals are negotiated. If the republicans have the majority they will push through anyone, or anything, and they will not hesitate to do so.
 
2021-09-14 3:54:26 PM  
Great.   Now figure out how to pass it.

You're not going to find 10 GOP senators to sign off on this.

You're going to have to either do something about the filibuster or just go with the default response

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 3:55:16 PM  

BeesNuts: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

I question the wisdom of rewarding this kind of behavior.  I prefer the stick to the carrot, in this instance.  "Get in line, or else."  Has a better ring to it than "pwetty pweese get in line.  is diss enough monees sir?"


I don't like it either, but what exactly is the "or else"?
 
2021-09-14 4:04:31 PM  
So what voter rights are the Democrats giving up on to appease Manchin? Because why else would they abandon the legislation they'd already written? Including the John Lewis Act?

Imagine a civil rights leader dying and hsi party can't even pass an Act in his honor. That's embarrassing and, frankly, deplorable.
 
2021-09-14 4:08:20 PM  
The more I think about it, the more my "hollow out West Virginia with nuclear weapons" campaign platform becomes viable.
 
2021-09-14 4:08:26 PM  

danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.


The only people with the funds to do so have already bought the assholes current position.
 
2021-09-14 4:11:42 PM  

austerity101: So what voter rights are the Democrats giving up on to appease Manchin? Because why else would they abandon the legislation they'd already written? Including the John Lewis Act?

Imagine a civil rights leader dying and hsi party can't even pass an Act in his honor. That's embarrassing and, frankly, deplorable.


Manchin is more concerned with honoring the legacy of Senator Robert Byrd, and his brave and proud use of the filibuster to oppose and delay civil rights legislation.

I'm not being snarky, that's actually what Manchin has said.  He won't do anything to change the filibuster because he has too much respect for its use by the former holder of his office.

He's a white supremacist asshole who considers women property rather than people.
 
2021-09-14 4:13:29 PM  
Moved: We recognize the secession of West Virgina is invalid. The territory is returned to the Commonwealth of Virgina.
 
2021-09-14 4:15:28 PM  
guys we have to vote manchin no matter who
 
2021-09-14 4:17:56 PM  

danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.


You don't get it. You're not paying him off. It's not about money.  His job is to obstruct the democratic agenda, and no amount of money will sway him from that cause.
 
2021-09-14 4:18:56 PM  

BeesNuts: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

I question the wisdom of rewarding this kind of behavior.  I prefer the stick to the carrot, in this instance.  "Get in line, or else."  Has a better ring to it than "pwetty pweese get in line.  is diss enough monees sir?"


This. The Democratic tactic of capitulation as a first resort is embarrassing.
 
2021-09-14 4:21:17 PM  

Snatch Bandergrip: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

You don't get it. You're not paying him off. It's not about money.  His job is to obstruct the democratic agenda, and no amount of money will sway him from that cause.


He's a patsy for the 10-12 Democrats who feel exactly the same as he does.

Lieberman part 2
 
2021-09-14 4:40:57 PM  

jethroe: Snatch Bandergrip: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

You don't get it. You're not paying him off. It's not about money.  His job is to obstruct the democratic agenda, and no amount of money will sway him from that cause.

He's a patsy for the 10-12 Democrats who feel exactly the same as he does.

Lieberman part 2


So, like everyone is suggesting, he HAS gotten his payout and is acting accordingly.   His wife's job, his committee positions, and whatever we don't know about.
 
2021-09-14 4:56:36 PM  
I read that as Emperor Munchkin.
 
2021-09-14 5:02:39 PM  

Snatch Bandergrip: BeesNuts: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

I question the wisdom of rewarding this kind of behavior.  I prefer the stick to the carrot, in this instance.  "Get in line, or else."  Has a better ring to it than "pwetty pweese get in line.  is diss enough monees sir?"

This. The Democratic tactic of capitulation as a first resort is embarrassing.


Did you learn nothing from the Boehner/McConnell co-presidency of 2008-2016?
 
2021-09-14 5:08:38 PM  
I'm pretty sure Manchin and Sinema exist to show the voters that BSABSVR. They sure are working extra hard to make sure shiat doesn't get done while Democrats are in power.
 
2021-09-14 5:45:05 PM  
Push Manchin and Sinema too far and they switch parties giving McConnell the majority again and they know it.  Not above bribery until a couple more seats can be recovered.
 
2021-09-14 5:50:48 PM  

danvon: BeesNuts: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

I question the wisdom of rewarding this kind of behavior.  I prefer the stick to the carrot, in this instance.  "Get in line, or else."  Has a better ring to it than "pwetty pweese get in line.  is diss enough monees sir?"

I don't like it either, but what exactly is the "or else"?


I genuinely dont care. Give him a picture of his daughter wrapped around a rifle bullet. fark him.
 
2021-09-14 5:53:54 PM  

Snatch Bandergrip: danvon: Just pay the assholes off, and be done with it. Whatever his and Sinema's price is, it's cheaper than what will happen to this nation.

You don't get it. You're not paying him off. It's not about money.  His job is to obstruct the democratic agenda, and no amount of money will sway him from that cause.


I'd respect him (and Sinema) a lot more if it was solely about $$$$. Instead, they have this stance where they want to seem like they're standing on some sacred principle, when they're pleasing absolutely no one - not their party's agenda or any voters for that matter. It's not like they're going to siphon off additional R's in AZ and WV on their stance - no matter how moderate they portray themselves, their opponent will link them with Pelosi/AOC/Biden/etc.
 
2021-09-14 6:00:11 PM  
"...so of course we're going to have to start the legislative process all over again, see you in nine months"
 
2021-09-14 7:48:49 PM  

nmrsnr: Nothing. Nothing will happen because you need 60 votes in the Senate because Manchin and Sinema won't help kill the idiotic filibuster.


What you need is the issue forced. Offer them a deal to bring back the old active filibuster with a progressively decreasing majority.

Move an amendment to Senate rules enabling the President pro Tem or Majority Leader to declare a vote of special importance, which is subject to a 60 vote guillotine on any particular speaker or debate as a whole. Once they stop speaking, and all speakers have spoken or declined the opportunity, then it's up for cloture. If 60 votes aren't reached, the debate process begins again with end-of-process cloture vote at 55 but guillotine at 60. Then 50 and 60. Finally, a majority to guillotine and cloture.

That gives the minority three opportunities to actively filibuster and run out the clock which could delay any vote bya whole 2 year Senate session if they are prepared to actively speak against it.

/I worked for an upper house MP in a chamber that didn't have timed speeches. He was always filibustering. Not because he disagreed with the bills, but just because like all politicians he was a windbag who loved the sound of his own voice. So this could well work
 
2021-09-14 11:07:51 PM  
Looking at the details from the Washington post,
Compared to the previous For the People Act, this bill is weaker on campaign finance, but stronger on gerrymandering.
I hope it passes.
 
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