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(CNN)   77% of the hospital beds in the US are taken. Thanks, FREEDUM-19 patients   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: News, Hospital, Medicine, health systems, Mississippi hospital, Emergency department, cardiac ICU beds, non-traditional areas of care, overflow of patients  
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2322 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2021 at 8:30 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-14 6:07:05 AM  
Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?
 
2021-09-14 6:20:09 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


Because Hippocrates or something.

Isn't this the month when insurance stops paying for COVID hospitalization expenses?
 
2021-09-14 6:52:22 AM  
45**
 
2021-09-14 6:53:25 AM  
Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?
 
2021-09-14 7:16:27 AM  

BizarreMan: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

Because Hippocrates or something.

Isn't this the month when insurance stops paying for COVID hospitalization expenses?


Health insurance isn't going to do that.
I'm going to guess that insurance premiums will go up in the near future, though, a few already have.
 
2021-09-14 7:31:02 AM  
Start rationing beds for the unvaccinated. Make it so that the plague rats aren't impacting responsible people who suffer medical emergencies. Let the COVIDiots die at home - at least they won't have to say goodbye over FaceTime.
 
2021-09-14 7:56:04 AM  
I just had an issue on Sunday and was frankly told: "Normally we might admit you but you are aware of the situation in the hospitals. Since you look healthy enough, why don't you give it a shot from home."
 
2021-09-14 8:31:51 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


EMTALA, I imagine.  Or the money.  Insurance companies are raising rates on the unvaccinated, right?
 
2021-09-14 8:33:56 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?


I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?
 
2021-09-14 8:35:13 AM  
Curse that hippopotamus oath.
 
2021-09-14 8:35:56 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


Their own death certificate?
 
2021-09-14 8:36:51 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.
 
2021-09-14 8:36:51 AM  
We're sending you to another facility....   The Chatsworth Funeral Home.
 
2021-09-14 8:38:28 AM  
No red state bailouts.
 
2021-09-14 8:38:30 AM  
Might I suggest that if you don't believe in medicine that you skip the hospital and go die in a hole that you dug for yourself.
That's that pure freedom
 
2021-09-14 8:39:07 AM  
Well hopefully some of these "cures" the morons are taking will drop them before they get hospitalized.
 
2021-09-14 8:41:07 AM  
Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?
 
2021-09-14 8:41:22 AM  
My FIL got the vaccine. Just spent a week in the ICU.
 
2021-09-14 8:42:43 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


It's in the article, they have to, it is federal law. ERs are often full of people who do dumb and/or illegal things and get treatment.


The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act or EMTALA requires hospitals with emergency departments to provide a medical screening exam to any person who comes to the emergency department and requests care. The law also prohibits hospitals with emergency departments from refusing to examine or treat people with emergency medical conditions.Now, during the pandemic, many of the Covid-19 patients filling hospital beds are unvaccinated. EMTALA obligations remain in place.
 
2021-09-14 8:42:56 AM  

great_tigers: My FIL got the vaccine. Just spent a week in the ICU.


That said, I firmly believe the only reason why he isn't dead is because he got the vaccine.
 
2021-09-14 8:44:09 AM  
#Winning
 
2021-09-14 8:44:11 AM  

kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?


Yes and they're not going to let it happen again, sadly.
 
2021-09-14 8:44:22 AM  

Rapmaster2000: What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


They're waiting for their radio hosts, bloggers, propagandists and Twitter doctors to give them the okay to do so.

Which is futile, because any new development is just twisted and turned into more insipidly stupid motherf*cking bullsh*t conspiracy.

Pfizer getting full approval should have been the end of this, but noooo, the same assholes pushing this nonsense from the beginning had to start screaming that it wasn't fully approved yet because "Comirnaty is a different formulation" than the shiat people have been getting for 18 goddamn months.
 
2021-09-14 8:44:22 AM  

Eightballjacket: It's in the article, they have to, it is federal law.


There are articles here?

/ I kid
 
2021-09-14 8:45:06 AM  

great_tigers: My FIL got the vaccine. Just spent a week in the ICU.


Was that from extremely swollen testicles?
 
2021-09-14 8:45:11 AM  
You just know some of these nurses are jamming that tube down with no vaseline ar this point. I would hate to be receiving care from angry nurses.
 
2021-09-14 8:45:12 AM  
In every city there are event tent rental places. You can get huge tents with options and accessories added like air conditioning.

Hospitals can start renting those out, erecting them in the parking lot, fill them up with cheap twin beds from the local mattress liquidators, some cheap sheets from Ollie's and MyPillows and put a little sign out front and call them "Donald J Trump honorary COVID-19 treatment wing". Park their happy asses inside, and pay an orderly a $50K salary to wear a biohazard suit and distribute out aquarium cleaner, horse paste, bottles of betadine, and sachets of witch hazel in little gift bags.
 
2021-09-14 8:46:03 AM  

UncleDirtNap: Well hopefully some of these "cures" the morons are taking will drop them before they get hospitalized.


Like the new one where you have to gargle Betadine douche.
 
2021-09-14 8:46:43 AM  

kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?


This is America, we don't remember shiat from one election cycle to the next.
 
2021-09-14 8:47:35 AM  

kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?


memeguy.comView Full Size

How things are going now.
 
2021-09-14 8:50:06 AM  
we had a talk bout this other day at work.  i have a coworker who is saying that the hospital are lying.  Shes a anti-covid person(saids it a real thing but that we are blowing it way out of proportion.)

She claims

1. that hospitals have the beds but because they are making their staff get the vaccine and so many are quiting/getting fired that they are under staff and if they just stop they be all fine.

2. that people have gone into hospitals with hidden cameras and gotten videos of crap ton of empty beds. (none of which i can find online lol).

3. that the mainstream media is lying to us for the gov.  and they are hidden the truth from us. and that only the non mainstream media is telling it like it is.

Trying to explain stuff to her bout how rights work and stuff and she go off the deep end.  to her our right are 100% active all the time and can never be limited.
 
2021-09-14 8:50:38 AM  
I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads
 
2021-09-14 8:50:43 AM  
 
2021-09-14 8:50:46 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.


Yup.  I unfriended and blocked someone on facebook last night because she was "just asking questions" about the safety of the shot, and why "AA folks aren't getting it, or Mexicans."  Just some "true concern for the safety of the vaccine," she said, and we "just need a little more testing to be certain it's safe."

::sigh::  Go fark yourself, antivaxxer.  I'm over this shiat.  Get vaccinated or get off my wall.  And if you claim to be vaccinated, we hang out in-person, and I find out later you weren't vaccinated?  "DONE" doesn't even begin to describe how completely finished our relationship is.  You endanger my family, and you can fark right off.
 
db2
2021-09-14 8:53:30 AM  
I don't think the Hippocratic oath says anything about declining to treat a patient. Tell the voluntarily unvaccinated to take a hike.
 
2021-09-14 8:54:03 AM  

Carthax: AdmirableSnackbar: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.

Yup.  I unfriended and blocked someone on facebook last night because she was "just asking questions" about the safety of the shot, and why "AA folks aren't getting it, or Mexicans."  Just some "true concern for the safety of the vaccine," she said, and we "just need a little more testing to be certain it's safe."

::sigh::  Go fark yourself, antivaxxer.  I'm over this shiat.  Get vaccinated or get off my wall.  And if you claim to be vaccinated, we hang out in-person, and I find out later you weren't vaccinated?  "DONE" doesn't even begin to describe how completely finished our relationship is.  You endanger my family, and you can fark right off.


The combination of "antivaxxer" and "still actively reads and posts on Facebook" is basically a two-strikes-and-you're-out deal for me at this point.  I've had to do some pruning, to be sure.
 
2021-09-14 8:54:15 AM  

kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?


and how many states passed laws saying that lockdowns are illegal or had their state SC say it was illegal under the states constitutions.?

the only way we getting a full lockdown is if the fed gov finds a way to make it happen.
 
2021-09-14 8:54:44 AM  

dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads


Damn son. Hope you make it.
 
2021-09-14 8:55:48 AM  
They'll be gone soon.
 
2021-09-14 8:57:52 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


Initial shots for the public wer in late Dec 2020. So, even from the public side it's been 9 months.
 
2021-09-14 8:58:04 AM  

kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?


A lot of people remember it.  So what?
Got a point?
 
2021-09-14 8:58:33 AM  
What percentage should be taken?  Honest question... one of biggest abuses of statistics is to omit the context that provides meaning.  The article also carefully lists beds in use by Covid patients as a number and not percentage so there is absolutely no way to compare the relative impact.

To top it off, the article then links to a dashboard, the bane of any contextual understanding.

The Internet (and modern journalism) is making us dumber.
 
2021-09-14 8:59:54 AM  
When hospitals run out of beds or when staffing is low, tough decisions must be made on which patients get to be first in line for care.

I mean...I have an idea.
 
2021-09-14 9:00:05 AM  

bostonguy: Eightballjacket: It's in the article, they have to, it is federal law.

There are articles here?

/ I kid


And actually, this article was pretty interesting.  Like this item saying that while they have to treat everyone who comes through the door, vax status is one of the factors on how much care is offered up once in the room


Or, if being unvaccinated and having lung failure puts you at a worse chance of survival versus someone who just comes in with asthma and lung problems but are vaccinated," Caplan said. "Many places would give priority to the vaccinated asthma patient as opposed to the unvaccinated lung failure patient. What they're watching is outcome and likelihood of success.
 
2021-09-14 9:00:33 AM  

jumac: we had a talk bout this other day at work.  i have a coworker who is saying that the hospital are lying.  Shes a anti-covid person(saids it a real thing but that we are blowing it way out of proportion.)

She claims

1. that hospitals have the beds but because they are making their staff get the vaccine and so many are quiting/getting fired that they are under staff and if they just stop they be all fine.

2. that people have gone into hospitals with hidden cameras and gotten videos of crap ton of empty beds. (none of which i can find online lol).

3. that the mainstream media is lying to us for the gov.  and they are hidden the truth from us. and that only the non mainstream media is telling it like it is.

Trying to explain stuff to her bout how rights work and stuff and she go off the deep end.  to her our right are 100% active all the time and can never be limited.


They think that the simple fact that there is a Constitution and Bill of Rights means that they can do whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want, to whoever they want, so long as they wave Ol' Glory whilst they do it.

But those documents and other laws are made up of little symbols called "letters," arranged into groups. These groups of letters are called "words." Words mean things. There's a book called a dictionary that tells you what words mean, and a Supreme Court to determine the meaning of these groups of words even more narrowly when they're not immediately clear.

They're illiterate assholes and spoiled, selfish douchebags is what I'm saying.
 
2021-09-14 9:01:25 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?


Because corroded lamp wire worked just fine for me grand papi's house, and I don't need no gubmint 'lations tellin me otherwise.
 
2021-09-14 9:02:30 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


Because EMTALA exists.
 
2021-09-14 9:04:35 AM  
As of Monday morning, more than 96,000 hospital beds are filled with Covid-19 patients nationwide -- contributing to the 77% of all hospital beds across the country being currently in use, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services. About 80% of intensive care unit beds are in use.

Hospitals in some places are closer to capacity than in others.


Health care, like politics, is mostly local. A nationwide, aggregate measure of hospital/ICU capacity is of limited usefulness because it's not easy to transfer patients from hard-hit areas to distant hospitals with available beds. But sure, I guess we *could* load up a bunch of covid patients on a plane and ship them from, say, Texas to Wisconsin.

Here in Ohio, hospitals are reluctant to suspend elective procedures, because that's how they make most of their revenue, and they took a huge hit last year. Each health system is justifying business as usual by reasoning that if a covid surge hits, they can just transfer patients somewhere else. That's great, but the entire state is playing chicken with everyone else, and we're just whistling in the dark until a statewide surge forces everyone to dial it back.

I guess GOP governors are planning to do that on a national scale?
 
2021-09-14 9:05:11 AM  

crackizzle: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

Initial shots for the public wer in late Dec 2020. So, even from the public side it's been 9 months.


They'll still say "NOT LONG ENOUGH".

It's like they want 50 years of data and even then it'll still be "but mah freedumbs!"

They aren't getting the shot, it's just posturing.
 
2021-09-14 9:05:40 AM  

jso2897: kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?

A lot of people remember it.  So what?
Got a point?


Just wondering why they're not happening now.
 
2021-09-14 9:07:48 AM  

Robo Beat: Carthax: AdmirableSnackbar: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.

Yup.  I unfriended and blocked someone on facebook last night because she was "just asking questions" about the safety of the shot, and why "AA folks aren't getting it, or Mexicans."  Just some "true concern for the safety of the vaccine," she said, and we "just need a little more testing to be certain it's safe."

::sigh::  Go fark yourself, antivaxxer.  I'm over this shiat.  Get vaccinated or get off my wall.  And if you claim to be vaccinated, we hang out in-person, and I find out later you weren't vaccinated?  "DONE" doesn't even begin to describe how completely finished our relationship is.  You endanger my family, and you can fark right off.

The combination of "antivaxxer" and "still actively reads and posts on Facebook" is basically a two-strikes-and-you're-out deal for me at this point.  I've had to do some pruning, to be sure.


I've only had to disown one friend. She was the healing crystal, healthy diet to beat disease type, but she was always mostly harmless. Then she started advocating for pointing a hairdryer down your throat to kill the virus. Yeeted her right the fark out of my life.

Have one other friend I've mentioned here before who's a major conspiracy nutter but again, mostly harmless. Until all this it was mainly about aliens and whatnot. I wouldn't stand for any of his vaccine conspiracy bullshiat, he called me brainwashed, and blocked me. About 6 weeks later he was messaging me apologizing profusely because he was sick. He's now the only one of 3 people I personally know who got sick that has lived. 33% is better than 0% I guess.
 
2021-09-14 9:08:26 AM  

db2: I don't think the Hippocratic oath says anything about declining to treat a patient. Tell the voluntarily unvaccinated to take a hike.


EMTALA and professional duty >>> some mostly ceremonial oath

Are we going to refuse to treat known criminals, drug addicts, and The Dutch?
 
2021-09-14 9:08:50 AM  

crackizzle: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

Initial shots for the public wer in late Dec 2020. So, even from the public side it's been 9 months.


The vaccine trial.  That began in March 2020.  It's the same vaccine.

On March 16, 2020, Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute gave the first-ever injection of an investigational vaccine for the 2019 novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, to volunteers participating in phase one of the federally sponsored clinical trial.
This is the first vaccine trial for this virus, which causes COVID-19, in humans. The KPWHRI trial began recruiting participants on March 3.
"We are proud that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases selected us to conduct this innovative trial," said Lisa Jackson, MD, MPH, senior investigator at KPWHRI. "We're well prepared and focused on helping to address this evolving health situation." Dr. Jackson is the lead researcher for the study, funded by the National Institutes of Health.
The investigational vaccine is called mRNA-1273 and made by Moderna. The vaccine is made using a new process that is much faster than older methods of making vaccines.  It does not contain any part of the actual coronavirus and cannot cause infection. Instead, it includes a short segment of messenger RNA that is made in a lab.
 
2021-09-14 9:10:30 AM  
going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

Now under the 1905 case the SCOTUS said that the state have the right and responsibility  to put into place limitations for people who are considered a threat at this time.

Could any lawsuit brought by a state backfire?  I mean could it get to SCOTUS and the judges go well if you states had been doing your job then the pres wouldn't have to do this.  I know some say that the feds should try and use the commerce clause to take over control of how we deal with this. could SCOTUS say the states messed up so bad that they are turn it over to the feds?
 
2021-09-14 9:10:47 AM  

Parthenogenetic: As of Monday morning, more than 96,000 hospital beds are filled with Covid-19 patients nationwide -- contributing to the 77% of all hospital beds across the country being currently in use, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services. About 80% of intensive care unit beds are in use.

Hospitals in some places are closer to capacity than in others.

Health care, like politics, is mostly local. A nationwide, aggregate measure of hospital/ICU capacity is of limited usefulness because it's not easy to transfer patients from hard-hit areas to distant hospitals with available beds. But sure, I guess we *could* load up a bunch of covid patients on a plane and ship them from, say, Texas to Wisconsin.

Here in Ohio, hospitals are reluctant to suspend elective procedures, because that's how they make most of their revenue, and they took a huge hit last year. Each health system is justifying business as usual by reasoning that if a covid surge hits, they can just transfer patients somewhere else. That's great, but the entire state is playing chicken with everyone else, and we're just whistling in the dark until a statewide surge forces everyone to dial it back.

I guess GOP governors are planning to do that on a national scale?


Christ, our healthcare system sucks...
 
2021-09-14 9:13:03 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


the same reason they admit chain smokers with lung cancer?

Or 600 pound people with diabetes?
 
2021-09-14 9:13:24 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.


THIS

They thought they had it when the J&J and Astra-Zennica vaccines got put on hold over blood clots. Didn't matter that the risk for clots was incredibly low, lower than birth control pills even, but that was many of their "THIS IS IT" moment.

I'm honestly surprised some conservative think-tank hasn't funded a counter study on the vaccine much like they do with fossil fuels.
 
2021-09-14 9:13:50 AM  

Rapmaster2000: crackizzle: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

Initial shots for the public wer in late Dec 2020. So, even from the public side it's been 9 months.

The vaccine trial.  That began in March 2020.  It's the same vaccine.

On March 16, 2020, Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute gave the first-ever injection of an investigational vaccine for the 2019 novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, to volunteers participating in phase one of the federally sponsored clinical trial.
This is the first vaccine trial for this virus, which causes COVID-19, in humans. The KPWHRI trial began recruiting participants on March 3.
"We are proud that the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases selected us to conduct this innovative trial," said Lisa Jackson, MD, MPH, senior investigator at KPWHRI. "We're well prepared and focused on helping to address this evolving health situation." Dr. Jackson is the lead researcher for the study, funded by the National Institutes of Health.
The investigational vaccine is called mRNA-1273 and made by Moderna. The vaccine is made using a new process that is much faster than older methods of making vaccines.  It does not contain any part of the actual coronavirus and cannot cause infection. Instead, it includes a short segment of messenger RNA that is made in a lab.


Wasn't disagreeing. Just saying non trial participants I know got shots on Christmas Eve. So, even from the perspective of someone who doesn't trust the scientists the real world test has been ongoing for this long.
 
2021-09-14 9:14:13 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 9:16:18 AM  
As amusing as it is to watch antiva Confederate assholes kill themselves with methfolk remedies when they're not dying of covid, can we please just do another shutdown and end at least some of this lunacy? I'm imagining doctors at this point walking off the job to become a plumber because dealing with literal shiat is better than this dumbass nightmare.
 
2021-09-14 9:16:19 AM  

jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.


That's what they're going to try, but OSHA is well established and unless they get a ruling saying COVID-19 isn't an occupational risk, they're going to lose badly.

This isn't a vaccine mandate on everyone. That would be a state matter. This is a vaccine mandate within already granted federal powers.
 
2021-09-14 9:18:28 AM  

lindalouwho: BizarreMan: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

Because Hippocrates or something.

Isn't this the month when insurance stops paying for COVID hospitalization expenses?

Health insurance isn't going to do that.
I'm going to guess that insurance premiums will go up in the near future, though, a few already have.


We're a month or two away from open enrollment for many insurance plans. I wonder how many of them will have provisos regarding vaccination.
 
2021-09-14 9:19:02 AM  

The Headless Horseman's Headless Horse: They're waiting for their radio hosts, bloggers, propagandists and Twitter doctors to give them the okay to do so.


Considering how they're dropping like flies, maybe the next crop might be the answer.

I doubt it though.
 
2021-09-14 9:21:01 AM  

Clearly Canadian: [i.imgur.com image 850x566]


"Don't tread on my breathing tube!"
 
2021-09-14 9:21:48 AM  

Trainspotr: lindalouwho: BizarreMan: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

Because Hippocrates or something.

Isn't this the month when insurance stops paying for COVID hospitalization expenses?

Health insurance isn't going to do that.
I'm going to guess that insurance premiums will go up in the near future, though, a few already have.

We're a month or two away from open enrollment for many insurance plans. I wonder how many of them will have provisos regarding vaccination.


You get back to us with citations, mmkay?
 
2021-09-14 9:21:53 AM  

Wobambo: I'm imagining doctors at this point walking off the job to become a plumber because dealing with literal shiat is better than this dumbass nightmare.


Being a doctor still has perks.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 9:24:21 AM  
Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.
 
2021-09-14 9:28:38 AM  

Rapmaster2000: It does not contain any part of the actual coronavirus and cannot cause infection. Instead, it includes a short segment of messenger RNA that is made in a lab.


This is the single most important piece of information, it's also one of the biggest medical breakthroughs in history.

I keep saying this. mRNA vaccines should have been a huge celebratory event when it was discovered, and even more so when they finally found a suspension serum that slowed the degradation of the RNA's half-life down.

They missed the marketing opportunities for this 50 years ago. But I get it, while it was a major milestone in medical science, the fact that it took 50 years to develop the tech to slow the half-life of RNA down was a shadow on that milestone.

With the right marketing though both events could have been huge celebrations.

I hope we do have a global celebration when they find a shelf stable serum for mRNA vaccines. If we could get even 30 days of shelf stability without the need for special freezer equipment, that would be cause for worldwide celebration as it would mean every disease specialists would turn their focus on creating mRNA vaccines. There would be a race to come up with the mRNA code for every single known disease and we could virtually end viral infections in humans.

Of course, it would only come in time for us to watch the sun set on this planet after we've stripped it, scorched it or flooded it, and poisoned all the potable water from it.
 
2021-09-14 9:29:36 AM  
what is the baseline occupancy rate for hospitals?
 
2021-09-14 9:32:29 AM  

Neil B. for Zod: What percentage should be taken?  Honest question... one of biggest abuses of statistics is to omit the context that provides meaning.  The article also carefully lists beds in use by Covid patients as a number and not percentage so there is absolutely no way to compare the relative impact.

To top it off, the article then links to a dashboard, the bane of any contextual understanding.

The Internet (and modern journalism) is making us dumber.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/1​8​5904/hospital-occupancy-rate-in-the-us​-since-2001/

Seems like the mid 60s is the average, however that is yearly. I can't find any data that breaks it down seasonaly\monthly, which is what we should really look at, but even that is a very broad stroke.
 
2021-09-14 9:35:01 AM  

Great_Milenko: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

the same reason they admit chain smokers with lung cancer?

Or 600 pound people with diabetes?


Those conditions are not contagious.
 
2021-09-14 9:37:29 AM  
It'S jUsT tHe FlU.

When is the last time the flu shut down hospital admissions and had to stack bodies in hallways? farking 1918. School buses and winter pileups fills a hospistal for a day or 2. Not MONTHS at a time. GFYs magamaskholes.

If it is just the flu, does it make it better? Idiots.
 
2021-09-14 9:38:10 AM  
also some data from the NHI, which spells it out better. The rate actually swings considerably depending on the size of the hospital. Larger ones normally run close to 80% occupied, while smaller ones run sub 50%, for obvious reasons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti​c​les/PMC4191350/

In other words this is a shiatty stat to throw as evidence of anything, other than at a very broad level, we are higher than the yearly average, but not to some extreme significancy.

I'd imagine if we broke it down seasonally, and then regionally, you would find a few hot spots that are responsible for it.
 
2021-09-14 9:38:42 AM  

jumac: Trying to explain stuff to her bout how rights work and stuff and she go off the deep end.  to her our right are 100% active all the time and can never be limited.


In conservatism there are two groups of people: those who the law binds but doesn't protect, and those who the law protects but doesn't bind.  Your coworker really wants to believe she's in the latter group. It's a false dichotomy, of course, but that's how she sees the world.
 
2021-09-14 9:42:17 AM  
which is good for the companies that own the hospitals. gotta keep those beds full!
 
2021-09-14 9:42:51 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Wobambo: I'm imagining doctors at this point walking off the job to become a plumber because dealing with literal shiat is better than this dumbass nightmare.

Being a doctor still has perks.
[Fark user image 850x635]


Pre-emptive PG-rated Matty the Mouse threadjack!

Seinfeld: Rabid Elaine
Youtube g-VzZYhP6qs
 
2021-09-14 9:43:35 AM  

kryptoknightmare: They'll be gone soon.


Not soon enough.
 
2021-09-14 9:46:54 AM  

Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.


You have my sympathies for having incredibly stupid parents and having to deal with that. They, however, will get no sympathy from me.
 
2021-09-14 9:49:22 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.

You have my sympathies for having incredibly stupid parents and having to deal with that. They, however, will get no sympathy from me.


Honestly that's about the best I could expect from Fark.
 
2021-09-14 9:51:22 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.

You have my sympathies for having incredibly stupid parents and having to deal with that. They, however, will get no sympathy from me.


He should also keep in mind how many people that his parents have exposed / will expose.
 
2021-09-14 9:52:30 AM  
Just wanted to point out that basically every comment made here is sophistry.
 
2021-09-14 9:55:06 AM  

CrashTheGame: Just wanted to point out that basically every comment made here is sophistry.


You must be new here.
 
2021-09-14 9:55:07 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


They are waiting on Nicki Manaj to complete her research, duh.

"They want you to get vaccinated for the Met," Minaj, 38, tweeted Monday night. "if I get vaccinated it won't for the Met. It'll be once I feel I've done enough research. I'm working on that now."


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nicki-mi​n​aj-covid-vaccine-met-gala/
 
2021-09-14 9:57:38 AM  

madgonad: AdmirableSnackbar: Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.

You have my sympathies for having incredibly stupid parents and having to deal with that. They, however, will get no sympathy from me.

He should also keep in mind how many people that his parents have exposed / will expose.


Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.
 
2021-09-14 9:57:53 AM  
The conservative response via some of my social media:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 9:59:06 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 10:00:35 AM  

LineNoise: CrashTheGame: Just wanted to point out that basically every comment made here is sophistry.

You must be new here.


Nah my account is probably older than 95% of active accounts.
 
2021-09-14 10:02:15 AM  

buttercat: The conservative response via some of my social media:

[Fark user image 720x720]


*screams into void*
 
2021-09-14 10:04:10 AM  
What was the pre-covid percentage?
 
2021-09-14 10:04:26 AM  
I have the diabeetus, last Friday I was coming off a cold, and my sugar spiked to darn near lethal levels. Was rushed to the ER on the verge of losing consciousness. Had to wait in the waiting room for about 20 minutes till anyone could see me. Got back there, and they rushed to pump insulin in my stomach and gave me fluids. As soon as my levels were "trending down", they kicked me right out. I was in and out in 2 hours. The doctor told me under different circumstances they'd have kept me overnight, but they needed the bed and as I was "trending down" he was sure I was going to be okay. Felt like I got ER drive-thru service lol. I'm not complaining, it is what it is, I just thought I'd share my experience.
 
2021-09-14 10:06:31 AM  

kpaxoid: jso2897: kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?

A lot of people remember it.  So what?
Got a point?

Just wondering why they're not happening now.


They never were politically viable in most states.
Freedumbs, you know.
Trucknutz, crying eagle, maga, etc.
The same old thing that always makes America a third world shiathole with money.
Anyway - if people had masked distanced and vaccinated, lockdowns would have been unnecessary.
The answer is always the same, really: Oppositional Defiant Disorder
 
2021-09-14 10:06:47 AM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


I guess I'd rather have them in a hospital than roaming around Wal-Mart.

At this point, I want them to have an ankle bracelet and sent home to be quarantined for months, and they can try all the natural solutions while learning how brutal nature is.
 
2021-09-14 10:10:52 AM  

buttercat: The conservative response via some of my social media:

[Fark user image image 720x720]


I have to give myself weekly B12 shots. The B12 is covered by insurance, the syringes are not. The first time I got them I asked if diabetics have to pay for their syringes, thinking they didn't (my needles/syringes are larger). I was surprised and outraged for those folks when I was told that most insurances do not cover them. What the hell?!
 
2021-09-14 10:10:53 AM  

buttercat: The conservative response via some of my social media:

[Fark user image 720x720]


Yeah, why not? Oh, because people will just run out and catch cancer willy-nilly. JFC.
 
2021-09-14 10:10:53 AM  

buttercat: [Fark user image 850x850]


Because you're the meanest person on Fark I am OK with the dog pile that will probably happen to you now.
 
2021-09-14 10:11:36 AM  

Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.



I have a friend who's father in law died from covid last fall. He's told his own parents they can't see their new granddaughter unless they get the vaccine.

They chose not to get vaccinated.
 
2021-09-14 10:12:49 AM  

vilesithknight: I have the diabeetus, last Friday I was coming off a cold, and my sugar spiked to darn near lethal levels. Was rushed to the ER on the verge of losing consciousness. Had to wait in the waiting room for about 20 minutes till anyone could see me. Got back there, and they rushed to pump insulin in my stomach and gave me fluids. As soon as my levels were "trending down", they kicked me right out. I was in and out in 2 hours. The doctor told me under different circumstances they'd have kept me overnight, but they needed the bed and as I was "trending down" he was sure I was going to be okay. Felt like I got ER drive-thru service lol. I'm not complaining, it is what it is, I just thought I'd share my experience.


That's a damn shame, I'm glad you're ok
 
2021-09-14 10:14:34 AM  
If these hospitals can manage their AR's good they should be able to make record profits.
 
2021-09-14 10:17:17 AM  
Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?
 
2021-09-14 10:17:41 AM  

flucto: buttercat: [Fark user image 850x850]

Because you're the meanest person on Fark I am OK with the dog pile that will probably happen to you now.


Hahahahaha!

I love you too, flucto.
 
2021-09-14 10:19:05 AM  
Perhaps now is the time for breaking all the contracts the world has with American companies that handle disaster recovery and management. There is no way the USA can handle fires, flood, or epidemics. They're literally the worst at them. This in't even Biden's fault - Biden is doing good. We just cannot trust any given group of Americans to save a puppy from a tree without setting fire to the neighbourhood and shoving drugs up their ass. This is not an exaggeration or hyperbole. We must keep the USA out of disaster management. We can't even let them give input at the UN. Oh, and, at leat now we can explain why the UN Security Council is a farking bag of failures. The USA dominates, and the USA is now exposed as the worst responder. We need to replace them with New Zealanders. Everywhere the USA is on a committee, fark them, they need to go, and New Zealand can take their seat.
 
2021-09-14 10:24:00 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?


I saw that same article, and read until I hit that part. At this point there are no excuses for not getting vaccinated, and their poor kids will suffer for it.
 
2021-09-14 10:28:07 AM  

I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?


Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.
 
2021-09-14 10:28:44 AM  
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! 23% of potential profits left untapped.
 
2021-09-14 10:32:26 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.


In agreement with you and the whole farking thing is driving me nuts. How can we be so callous and irresponsible as a culture? I don't want to rag on Biden too much because I understand the hesitancy, but we need some farking leadership. Do the lockdown and if the freedumb morons want to throw a murderous fit like they're threatening THROW THEM IN PRISON AND/OR SHOOT THEM.
 
2021-09-14 10:33:58 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.


Well, i DID have respiratory and sepsis due to covid.

What the hell does that have to due with the fact that 77 percent is not threatened capacity?

If they couldnt run at 77% capacity, 76 would be 100 percent capacity.  Your logic is laughable
 
2021-09-14 10:34:39 AM  
Respiratory failure, sorry.  Proofreading is hard
 
2021-09-14 10:35:18 AM  
.   I am surprised that more of our resident Covidiots TM Fark.com have not shown up to tell us "covid is not that bad" and/or that it impacts "mostly old people" so this is no big deal.

In the DFW area the news has reported almost no fully and properly staffed ICU beds are available with almost every pediatric ICU bed filled.
 
2021-09-14 10:36:39 AM  

Wobambo: They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.


In agreement with you and the whole farking thing is driving me nuts. How can we be so callous and irresponsible as a culture? I don't want to rag on Biden too much because I understand the hesitancy, but we need some farking leadership. Do the lockdown and if the freedumb morons want to throw a murderous fit like they're threatening THROW THEM IN PRISON AND/OR SHOOT THEM.


Wait, is this more "hyperbole" or are you serious this time?
 
2021-09-14 10:37:02 AM  
I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.
 
2021-09-14 10:37:47 AM  

I sound fat: Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.

Well, i DID have respiratory and sepsis due to covid.

What the hell does that have to due with the fact that 77 percent is not threatened capacity?

If they couldnt run at 77% capacity, 76 would be 100 percent capacity.  Your logic is laughable


Hospitals and their staffing are not designed to function with 76% of their patients needing critical care simultaneously. If they were then their ICUs would be far bigger, or maybe the whole thing would just be one massive ICU. It doesn't work that way, and you either know this and are being edgy or you need to rethink your "logic."
 
2021-09-14 10:39:16 AM  

TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.


"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."
 
2021-09-14 10:42:06 AM  

flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."


Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.
 
2021-09-14 10:42:39 AM  

I sound fat: Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.

Well, i DID have respiratory and sepsis due to covid.

What the hell does that have to due with the fact that 77 percent is not threatened capacity?

If they couldnt run at 77% capacity, 76 would be 100 percent capacity.  Your logic is laughable


It's 77% nationwide, so some hospitals are at 100% and others are not.  Like the hospitals in Alabama that have to turn away heart attack patients because they are out of beds.
 
2021-09-14 10:43:54 AM  
i thought this was supposed to be over by now...
 
2021-09-14 10:44:21 AM  

Carthax: AdmirableSnackbar: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for science-based information that tells them that they shouldn't get vaccinated to justify their behavior. That's it. It's just a way for them to justify not getting the shots, they're every bit the anti-vaxxers while trying to appear not pants-on-head insane.

Yup.  I unfriended and blocked someone on facebook last night because she was "just asking questions" about the safety of the shot, and why "AA folks aren't getting it, or Mexicans."  Just some "true concern for the safety of the vaccine," she said, and we "just need a little more testing to be certain it's safe."

::sigh::  Go fark yourself, antivaxxer.  I'm over this shiat.  Get vaccinated or get off my wall.  And if you claim to be vaccinated, we hang out in-person, and I find out later you weren't vaccinated?  "DONE" doesn't even begin to describe how completely finished our relationship is.  You endanger my family, and you can fark right off.


Fiancee's sister's boyfriend still isn't vaccinated(though she is), I don't think any of his family are either. He's been disinvited from family get togethers going forward(she has 2 other sisters), so by extension so is she if she doesn't want to come without him. Honestly given circumstances she should probably be formally disinvited too, but she hasn't been coming around as it is. Our kid just turned 6 months, we don't let anyone come see her that isn't vaccinated and people who've travelled or been in other high risk situations need to get tested first.
 
2021-09-14 10:45:22 AM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.


https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upda​t​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.
 
2021-09-14 10:48:23 AM  

sprgrss: what is the baseline occupancy rate for hospitals?


if you live in Oregon it is half the population of Idaho.
 
2021-09-14 10:51:16 AM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.


Yes being vaccinated is not a full 100% way of not getting or give it. But it reduces the chance making it much easy to control and don't overload our medical system.  which is one of the main reason for vaccines.

we blame the unvaccinated because unless they have a medical reason for not getting it.  then they are the major issue standing in our way of fully getting this under control.  If everyone who could be vaccinated was this would be something that like the cold or flu(lest that what most hope) and we could all go back to living our lives normal.
 
2021-09-14 10:53:42 AM  

asmodeus224: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They are waiting on Nicki Manaj to complete her research, duh.

"They want you to get vaccinated for the Met," Minaj, 38, tweeted Monday night. "if I get vaccinated it won't for the Met. It'll be once I feel I've done enough research. I'm working on that now."


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nicki-min​aj-covid-vaccine-met-gala/


"Feel I've done enough research.  I'm working on that now."

So she's up late peer reviewing the Pfizer data?
 
2021-09-14 10:53:57 AM  

Great_Milenko: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

the same reason they admit chain smokers with lung cancer?

Or 600 pound people with diabetes?


In the past, there has been room in the hospitals for those who voluntarily make bad choices.

The difference is, now there is no room.

F**k antivaxxers and Covid deniers. F**k each and every one of them with rusty, flexible conduit crammed down their throats. They're killing us all because they are stupid.
 
2021-09-14 10:55:08 AM  

flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.


A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.
 
2021-09-14 10:58:21 AM  

TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection?


Hmmm, let me see if I can find you an answer.

flucto: .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

 
2021-09-14 11:01:55 AM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.


It seems like you're leaving viral load out of your calculation.  The vaccine helps the immune system fight off the infection and that means that the viral load in most vaccinated people is going to be far lower. That means they are not contagious or are fare less than they otherwise would have been.

How is this a bad thing or a thing to dismiss?
 
2021-09-14 11:03:08 AM  
That was the goal. That's what the virus wanted.

I've played enough global pandemic games to kind of get it. The way to win at Plague Inc. is to make a virus that goes mostly undetected and causes only minor symptoms so that people feel justified in ignoring the danger. Your goal, as the virus, is to get people to spread you as far as possible without practicing any social distancing, masking, hand-washing, or immunization.

There's one thing in the game that they got very wrong: When the humans develop a vaccine it's over for you, the virus. People all get vaccinated and you die out.

If the game were accurate (we now know) then even when the vaccine is developed, only about 60% of the population will seek it, and that's not enough to destroy the virus. The game forgot to model right-wing propaganda (pro-virus, if you can imagine that!) as one of the factors in spreading the virus.

However, my theory is this: The vaccine resistance, the anti-masking, the refusal to practice social distancing are all symptoms of the early stages of the virus! Think about it! The virus wants to spread. What better way to do that than to affect those who have enlarged amygdalas (i.e. most conservatives) with fear over what social distancing, masking, and vaccinations could do to them? It's an undetected early symptom that makes them not only shun any and all ways to avoid spreading the virus, but actively encourages them to gather in large groups and infect each other. Since this virus works based on viral loads (the more you get, the worse off you are) it's whole goal is to get the minimally-infected to gather around other people and really get a good, long, stupid amount of exposure to ensure the virus lives.

I know my theory is nutty cuckoo crazy silly. But damned if it doesn't fit. These people are acting completely irrationally. Going against logic, reason, and the pleas of their own loved ones. This is like a person with rabies being instilled with rage (to spread the virus) and intense fear of water-- Mo idea why it would instill that fear, but the point is that it instills a very specific fear. It's within the abilities of a virus to make a person fear a specific thing, like water, so why not something else like vaccines, masks, doctors, or sheltering in place?

These people are kind of like zombies who are actively and irrationally driven to infect others. Eventually, after they've spread the virus around, they either recover (thanks to medical science) or they die (the virus' ultimate goal beyond replication). If they recover they continue to be irrational allies of the virus. It makes no sense because they're gibberish-talking covid ghouls.
 
2021-09-14 11:04:54 AM  
I have a friend who studied Genetics in college and he blasts people with this when they say they have done their research.  They really don't know and don't realize they don't know.  It's legitimate D-K.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 11:05:38 AM  

Mr. Breeze: Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.


Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU. He actually wanted to die at home, but I don't think you can check someone out of the hospital AMA when they can't breath without high-flow pure O2. They will let you shift to comfort care, but if they are non-responsive they won't let you tug them into a wheelchair and then roll to the parking lot. It doesn't matter where it is, it is always farking terrible and leaves friends and family in tatters.

That's what makes me so angry at the willfully unvaccinated. I understand the insanity of ignoring the risk to yourself. People ride motorcycles without helmets. It is the sociopathology of directly and indirectly harming the people around them - many of those people they claim to love.
 
2021-09-14 11:06:51 AM  

madgonad: Mr. Breeze: Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.

Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU. He actually wanted to die at home, but I don't think you can check someone out of the hospital AMA when they can't breath without high-flow pure O2. They will let you shift to comfort care, but if they are non-responsive they won't let you tug them into a wheelchair and then roll to the parking lot. It doesn't matter where it is, it is always farking terrible and leaves friends and family in tatters.

That's what makes me so angry at the willfully unvaccinated. I understand the insanity of ignoring the risk to yourself. People ride motorcycles without helmets. It is the sociopathology of directly and indirectly harming the people around them - many of those people they claim to love.


I'm so sorry.
*hug*
 
2021-09-14 11:07:30 AM  

WilderKWight: That was the goal. That's what the virus wanted.

I've played enough global pandemic games to kind of get it. The way to win at Plague Inc. is to make a virus that goes mostly undetected and causes only minor symptoms so that people feel justified in ignoring the danger. Your goal, as the virus, is to get people to spread you as far as possible without practicing any social distancing, masking, hand-washing, or immunization.

There's one thing in the game that they got very wrong: When the humans develop a vaccine it's over for you, the virus. People all get vaccinated and you die out.

If the game were accurate (we now know) then even when the vaccine is developed, only about 60% of the population will seek it, and that's not enough to destroy the virus. The game forgot to model right-wing propaganda (pro-virus, if you can imagine that!) as one of the factors in spreading the virus.

However, my theory is this: The vaccine resistance, the anti-masking, the refusal to practice social distancing are all symptoms of the early stages of the virus! Think about it! The virus wants to spread. What better way to do that than to affect those who have enlarged amygdalas (i.e. most conservatives) with fear over what social distancing, masking, and vaccinations could do to them? It's an undetected early symptom that makes them not only shun any and all ways to avoid spreading the virus, but actively encourages them to gather in large groups and infect each other. Since this virus works based on viral loads (the more you get, the worse off you are) it's whole goal is to get the minimally-infected to gather around other people and really get a good, long, stupid amount of exposure to ensure the virus lives.

I know my theory is nutty cuckoo crazy silly. But damned if it doesn't fit. These people are acting completely irrationally. Going against logic, reason, and the pleas of their own loved ones. This is like a person with rabies being instilled with rage (to spread the virus) ...


You could have just linked this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C​orrupte​d_Blood_incident
 
2021-09-14 11:07:35 AM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.


I've worn my mask everywhere and maintain a good distance from everyone. I don't go anywhere I don't need to go. I live in Arkansas and I would say that less than 50% of people in my area wore a mask last year. Now in a crowd of 50 people I'm likely the only one wearing a mask. In a store it's normally me and the employees.

The people who refused to get vaccinated are responsible for the variants like Delta and Mu. How? They spread the virus to vaccinated people and some were mutated enough to get past the bodies immune response for the original virus. That spread to unvaccinated folks and there you go, the Delta variant. Less than 10% of vaccinated people exposed to the virus will get a breakthrough infection. I think 7 point something percent was what I saw. If people got vaccinated as soon as they could and continued to wear masks and distance we would have the world nearly ready to go back to normal.

Since the blame lies directly at the feet of people who won't get vaccinated and who still refuse to wear masks or social distance it is entirely appropriate and necessary to blame and shame them publicly as loudly as we can to as many people as possible. I learned about respiratory viruses in middle school health class. Wearing a mask reduces transmission of that kind of virus. I've known this since I was 11 in 6th grade. People who aren't wearing masks aren't going to suddenly start. If they were intelligent enough or compassionate enough to care about other peoples health as well as their own they would already be wearing a mask. This isn't about "changing peoples minds" anymore. This is about not worrying about people's feeling, fark their feelings. They don't care if they spread COVID to someones kid who ends up dying I'm not going to give a flying fark about their feelings.

The intelligent people are getting vaccinated and wearing masks/distancing. The people who are smart enough to listen to the knowledge and advice from people who have spent their entire careers in medicine or medical research. I'm just hoping I can get my kids vaccinated soon. Then these morons can kill each other with COVID as hard and fast as they want. I hope they enjoy the freedom of drowning in their own mucus and may they all rot in hell. I'd donate to a fund for them to have big arena rallies with 20,000 attending. Maybe Eric Clapton and Van Morrison could headline.

These people do not care about you. If they had a functional brain and even a tiny little bit of critical thinking skills they would get vaccinated and wear a mask/distance. You can argue and yell all you want but you won't  convince that brick wall to turn into a cloud. It doesn't matter if we blame the unvaccinated for all of this current mess its not going to effect mask wearing in any way. The people who are going to wear a mask are already doing it. Nobody is going to suddenly start wearing a mask 18 months into a global pandemic because you didn't blame the unvaccinated.

Really think doctors should stop treating people who aren't vaccinated. Do No Harm includes the harm they are doing by treating these idiots. If you give the bed to an unvaccinated COVID patient who will likely take up that bed for 2 to 4 weeks or more before dying, how many others will not get treatment because of that? There is literally a free easy way to avoid dying from COVID. Anyone who refuses that should be kicked to the back of the line for healthcare if they get COVID.
 
2021-09-14 11:08:15 AM  

madgonad: Mr. Breeze: Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.

Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU. He actually wanted to die at home, but I don't think you can check someone out of the hospital AMA when they can't breath without high-flow pure O2. They will let you shift to comfort care, but if they are non-responsive they won't let you tug them into a wheelchair and then roll to the parking lot. It doesn't matter where it is, it is always farking terrible and leaves friends and family in tatters.

That's what makes me so angry at the willfully unvaccinated. I understand the insanity of ignoring the risk to yourself. People ride motorcycles without helmets. It is the sociopathology of directly and indirectly harming the people around them - many of those people they claim to love.


Sending good vibes to both of you and yours.  I'm sorry this is happening.  What a mess.
 
2021-09-14 11:12:44 AM  
So 23% are open. Hospitals better up that advertising budget.
 
2021-09-14 11:12:51 AM  
We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.

Also fat people. Literally just eat less food until you aren't fat. You'll save money and be healthier. Fat people are a serious problem for our healthcare infrastructure.

Also unfit people. I don't mean everyone should be a professional athlete but if you aren't following the AMA guidelines (every healthy adult 18 to 65 years of age needs at least 30 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity five days per week, or 20 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic physical activity three days a week) you are selfishly putting everyone at risk.

Also drug users. Why are we treating smokers for anything at all? If they valued life, they wouldn't smoke. They are a burden for the rest of us. Alcohol is awful. Stop it. I'm sick and tired picking up the slack for these people.

And yes, I'm including sugar and processed foods. Put down that large Coke and bag of Doritos. Have some respect for you AND the healthcare system we all depend on.

Also risk takers. No seat belt == no treatment. No helmet == no treatment. Ride a motorcycle == no treatment. These dangerous activities cause a disproportionate amount of injuries (sometimes fatal). I'm happy to provide a full list to whatever government agency will listen but we need to stop thinking of individual's "freedoms" and more about the good of the healthcare system as a whole.

Also people who avoid preventative care. No annual physical....screw you. Bend over boys - if you skip those recommended prostate exams you forfeit future treatment. You don't get to say, 'Ha, I never go to the doctor' and then show up with some horrible disease that could have been mitigated earlier and then be a drain on the system.

And every single person who either skips or ignores genetic testing before having a baby. These children will face a lifetime of difficulties and put substantial strain on our healthcare (and other) systems. If you were unaware due to your willful negligence or worse, intentionally choose to continue with such a pregnancy...that burden of healthcare should be yours and yours alone. Go to the library and get some medical books, but keep them out of our hospitals.

Personally I think healthcare should be free and mandatory. With taxes and penalties for those who fail to comply. We'll ban all advertisements for both drugs and medical procedures. Doctors alone will decide what you need and when. You don't get to pick which vaccines you get or which medication to take. I'm not trying to make this sound extreme, obviously you can report side effects to your doctor - but they and they alone are qualified to make medical decisions. They will decide if the side effects are worth it, not you. Failure to take medication will be a crime. Detection won't be perfect but they can verify that you picked it up and collect urine samples and what not whenever they want.

Things like alcohol and tobacco should just be outright banned. Things like processed foods and all that unhealthy junk should require an ID - just like alcohol and tobacco do now - but instead of age it will be a fitness card signed-off by your doctor. Fatties like myself won't be able to buy junk food. And we'll have penalties for supplying an unhealthy person with bad food. If you aren't fit enough, the doctor will prescribe a fitness routine and healthclubs will all become part of a government run system. AKA if you are fit, you can do your exercises at home, however you see fit. If you aren't - you need to report to the fitness place and have a professional sign-off on your activity.

Admittedly this might feel like a big change - but that's only because we suck so much as it is. If you didn't brush your teeth and someone told you, 'From now on, you have to brush your teeth three times per day and then use this little floss stuff AND see a dentist every 6-12 months' you'd be like, 'That's ridiculous'.

The reality is that we would fix so many problems with this approach and the only good reason not to do it is 'But I wanna be a lazy, selfish POS'

Finally, it should go without saying but there would be medical exemptions and what not, as determined by the doctors running it. No religious nonsense though.
 
2021-09-14 11:13:33 AM  

flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.

It seems like you're leaving viral load out of your calculation.  The vaccine helps the immune system fight off the infection and that means that the viral load in most vaccinated people is going to be far lower. That means they are not contagious or are fare less than they otherwise would have been.

How is this a bad thing or a thing to dismiss?


The viral load of delta is ridiculously high. Some say up to 1,000% higher in delta. Even if there's a 90% reduction in viral load due to vaccine the load is still elevated in delta.

What I'm really getting at is that the popular trend is just blame the unvaxed. They are a part of the problem. The millions of morons in the world who think having a vaccine means they can go back to risky behavior is the bigger problem.

The ones who are piling into theme parks and riding attractions which haven't been wiped down after rides. The people crowding in venues like dance clubs again. How many millions are going to decide that a shot means no more hand washing in those conditions?
 
2021-09-14 11:14:02 AM  

I sound fat: Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.

Well, i DID have respiratory and sepsis due to covid.

What the hell does that have to due with the fact that 77 percent is not threatened capacity?

If they couldnt run at 77% capacity, 76 would be 100 percent capacity.  Your logic is laughable


What you seem to have missed is that the '77%' figure is the *average* in the USA.

My state (NJ) is going well, and the percentage of occupied ICU beds is much lower than the average.
Tard states (like Alabama, with *zero* available ICU beds in the *entire state*) are doing much worse.

\You might be an idiot if you look at the national average of 77% ICU bed occupancy and ignore the 94% in Floriduh and the 100% in Alabama and Arkansas in order to say 'Welp, I don't see no problem...'
 
2021-09-14 11:16:57 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.

Also fat people. Literally just eat less food until you aren't fat. You'll save money and be healthier. Fat people are a serious problem for our healthcare infrastructure.

Also unfit people. I don't mean everyone should be a professional athlete but if you aren't following the AMA guidelines (every healthy adult 18 to 65 years of age needs at least 30 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity five days per week, or 20 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic physical activity three days a week) you are selfishly putting everyone at risk.

Also drug users. Why are we treating smokers for anything at all? If they valued life, they wouldn't smoke. They are a burden for the rest of us. Alcohol is awful. Stop it. I'm sick and tired picking up the slack for these people.

And yes, I'm including sugar and processed foods. Put down that large Coke and bag of Doritos. Have some respect for you AND the healthcare system we all depend on.

Also risk takers. No seat belt == no treatment. No helmet == no treatment. Ride a motorcycle == no treatment. These dangerous activities cause a disproportionate amount of injuries (sometimes fatal). I'm happy to provide a full list to whatever government agency will listen but we need to stop thinking of individual's "freedoms" and more about the good of the healthcare system as a whole.

Also people who avoid preventative care. No annual physical....screw you. Bend over boys - if you skip those recommended prostate exams you forfeit future treatment. You don't get to say, 'Ha, I never go to the doctor' and then show up with some horrible disease that could have been mitigated earlier and then be a drain on the system.

And every single person who either skips or ignores genetic testing before having a baby. These children will face a lifetime of difficulties and put substantial strain on our healthcare (and other) sy ...


I'm pretty sure you just described Best Korea.
 
2021-09-14 11:18:41 AM  

madgonad: Mr. Breeze: Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.

Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU. He actually wanted to die at home, but I don't think you can check someone out of the hospital AMA when they can't breath without high-flow pure O2. They will let you shift to comfort care, but if they are non-responsive they won't let you tug them into a wheelchair and then roll to the parking lot. It doesn't matter where it is, it is always farking terrible and leaves friends and family in tatters.

That's what makes me so angry at the willfully unvaccinated. I understand the insanity of ignoring the risk to yourself. People ride motorcycles without helmets. It is the sociopathology of directly and indirectly harming the people around them - many of those people they claim to love.


Dude/Doodah. I'm sorry for your loss. My best-ever boss once told me that one should never spend even one second trying to understand crazy, its motivations, goals, etc. It's beyond reason by definition. That's where we are I think. 100,000,000 crazy people who are beyond the reach of reason, sympathy, empathy, patriotism, or even care for their own lives. It's impossible to understand or to reason with.
 
2021-09-14 11:21:54 AM  

TheVirginMarty: is the bigger problem.


You have no factual, scientific, or statistical basis for that assertion.
 
2021-09-14 11:23:36 AM  

TheVirginMarty: riding attractions which haven't been wiped down after rides.


Further research has shown that surface transmission is not something you need to worry about.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d4158​6​-021-00251-4

Temperature checks have also been omitted due to their marginal utility.
 
2021-09-14 11:29:01 AM  

dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads


Yeah, my wife has a breakthrough case, and now the kids and I are quarantined with her.  Her case was very mild, so that was good, just have to see how the kids do now.

When people say don't go to Florida right now, f'ing believe it.  Especially Floribama.
 
2021-09-14 11:31:03 AM  

TheVirginMarty: The viral load of delta is ridiculously high. Some say up to 1,000% higher in delta. Even if there's a 90% reduction in viral load due to vaccine the load is still elevated in delta.

What I'm really getting at is that the popular trend is just blame the unvaxed. They are a part of the problem. The millions of morons in the world who think having a vaccine means they can go back to risky behavior is the bigger problem.

The ones who are piling into theme parks and riding attractions which haven't been wiped down after rides. The people crowding in venues like dance clubs again. How many millions are going to decide that a shot means no more hand washing in those conditions?


99.x% of people who are hospitalized because of COVID are *unvaccinated*.

Tell us why you want us to concentrate on the less-than-one-percent?

Unvaccinated persons are the *vast majority* of the problem.
 
2021-09-14 11:31:32 AM  

lindalouwho: I'm so sorry.
*hug*


buttercat: Sending good vibes to both of you and yours.  I'm sorry this is happening.  What a mess.


Thank you both. I have been so lucky. I know that I have been lucky. I have many friends and family who have been with me through it all. My father died surrounded by his family. He knew we was loved. My daughter got to say goodbye. My wife sang for almost five hours after we switched to comfort care. I don't know how the family could have done it in silence. I wish we lived in Oregon. The hospital we were in was closed to Covid to keep the Level 1 trauma center functional to meet the cities regular flow of gunshots, traffic accidents, strokes, and heart attacks, so only 'walk-in' Covid patients were in the ICU. Ambulances took all Covid patients to three other regional hospitals (which are overwhelmed). The Covid patients couldn't have visitors and were in sealed rooms... all alone. As terrible as my dad's suffering was (acute interstitial pneumonitis) he didn't test positive for Covid so family could visit (I just stayed there). Two Covid patients died while I was on the ICU ward and they were all alone. Just terrible. That's why if anything I have gotten even more angry at the anti-vaxers. I've seen the endgame of that decision. An endgame that has happened over 662k times in the last eighteen months.
 
2021-09-14 11:31:34 AM  
Hold out very little hope for this species.
 
2021-09-14 11:34:32 AM  

TheAugurofDunlain: Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.


I have a friend who's father in law died from covid last fall. He's told his own parents they can't see their new granddaughter unless they get the vaccine.

They chose not to get vaccinated.


A friend of mine used to bring his kids over to his mom's for her to watch them one day a week. He made a similar demand, but because she's an anti-vaxxer she refused. Now they don't speak to each other.

/also had to cut his brother out of his life because he's become a complete conspiracy nut
 
2021-09-14 11:35:57 AM  

Neil B. for Zod: What percentage should be taken?  Honest question... one of biggest abuses of statistics is to omit the context that provides meaning.  The article also carefully lists beds in use by Covid patients as a number and not percentage so there is absolutely no way to compare the relative impact.

To top it off, the article then links to a dashboard, the bane of any contextual understanding.

The Internet (and modern journalism) is making us dumber.


Also, the article fails to mention what the normal occupancy rates are for percentage of bed taken normally.  Some try to keep their beds full, for the $$$$'s.  Why would they ever want 0 beds taken?  Emergency rooms and ICU's are normally very busy and often are short on open beds.
 
2021-09-14 11:39:43 AM  
Biden is even beating Trump on number of hospital beds. I bet the doctors who gave to Biden's campaign are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
2021-09-14 11:39:51 AM  

flucto: Dude/Doodah. I'm sorry for your loss. My best-ever boss once told me that one should never spend even one second trying to understand crazy, its motivations, goals, etc. It's beyond reason by definition. That's where we are I think. 100,000,000 crazy people who are beyond the reach of reason, sympathy, empathy, patriotism, or even care for their own lives. It's impossible to understand or to reason with.


You and your boss are right, but sometimes crazy doesn't give you other options. Or maybe sometimes you just have to try even though you don't stand a chance. Tens of thousands of anti-vaxers are switching sides every day now. I would like to think that this is a result of somebody that they care about finally talking some sense into them.
 
2021-09-14 11:40:21 AM  

Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: You could have just linked this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co​rrupted_Blood_incident


I don't play WoW, but that's hilarious.
 
2021-09-14 11:43:27 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.


They'll just lie. Same people are the ones who flooded VAERS with reports of vaccine reactions and fatalities.

They have no accountability.
 
2021-09-14 11:44:35 AM  

Wesdog: The people who refused to get vaccinated are responsible for the variants like Delta and Mu.?


Statistically speaking, I think this is very unlikely. They just make an easy target/scapegoat.

The percentage of people refusing the vaccine, especially in the US which is what most people are Fark talk about (MAGA idiots refusing the vaccine are allowing variants) would be completely dwarfed by all the people who just don't have them. But, ya know, that's costly and might make us feel uncomfortable to admit our wealthy first-world privilege. The virus doesn't care.


The Congo, Haiti, Chad, South Sudan, Turkmenistan, Tanzania, Madagascar, Yemn, Syria, Benin, Mali, Cameroon, Somalia, Sudan, Niger, Zambia, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Uganda, Liberia, Ethiopia, Ghana, Central African Republic, and Guinea-Bissau all have less than 3% of their populations vaccinated.

If you look at countries with less than 10% or 20% it's a considerable number of people. And that's not even talking about people too young for the vaccine.

In the US - we're at like 76% of the 18+ group that has been encouraged to the vaccine. Surveys show that less than 20% of adults in the US refuse the vaccine. But let's just assume it's the full 24% who haven't had at least one shot.

260 million adults in the US. 20% of that is 52 million people. That's a lot of people, sure. But it's smaller than the ~74 million children under the age of 18 in the US and it's a drop in the bucket compared to the combined populations of the countries with less than 3% vaccinated.

Just look at Nigeria. It has ~205 million people and only 2% are even partially vaccinated. That's FOUR TIMES as many vaccinated people as every singe anti-vaxer American. FOUR TIMES. And that's just ONE other country. Look at a few more....Bangladesh has 164 million with 13% partially vaccinated...meaning 143 million not. Ethiopia has 115 million and only 2.1% are partially vaccinated...meaning 112 million unvaccinated.

Nigeria, Bangladesh and Ethiopia collectively have 455 million people without vaccination against COVID-19. The US might have 50 million anti-vax iditos. That's 9 times more chance of a variant from just those three countries.

You can blame anti-vaxer types for the hospital shortages we're facing and certainly for a bunch of deaths, but the odds of them being the cause of a variant are pretty small.
 
2021-09-14 11:46:28 AM  

madgonad: flucto: Dude/Doodah. I'm sorry for your loss. My best-ever boss once told me that one should never spend even one second trying to understand crazy, its motivations, goals, etc. It's beyond reason by definition. That's where we are I think. 100,000,000 crazy people who are beyond the reach of reason, sympathy, empathy, patriotism, or even care for their own lives. It's impossible to understand or to reason with.

You and your boss are right, but sometimes crazy doesn't give you other options. Or maybe sometimes you just have to try even though you don't stand a chance. Tens of thousands of anti-vaxers are switching sides every day now. I would like to think that this is a result of somebody that they care about finally talking some sense into them.


If by 'talking sense' you mean dying of covid, sure. Seems like that's been a pretty common story for a bit now.
 
2021-09-14 11:49:45 AM  

thehobbes: Fark_Guy_Rob: We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.

They'll just lie. Same people are the ones who flooded VAERS with reports of vaccine reactions and fatalities.

They have no accountability.


Under my system, medical records would be detailed and controlled by the government run healthcare system. They'd know. Either using microchips or biometrics. If anyone was unidentifiable (say we use fingerprints but you are severely burned and they can't read it) then you'd get treatment until they can identify you. Provided you are compliant with the medical requirements, treatment will continue.

If you are not compliant they'd transport you to the exterior of the building. You'd be liable for the cost of all treatment incurred, naturally.
 
2021-09-14 11:50:56 AM  

flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.

It seems like you're leaving viral load out of your calculation.  The vaccine helps the immune system fight off the infection and that means that the viral load in most vaccinated people is going to be far lower. That means they are not contagious or are fare less than they otherwise would have been.

How is this a bad thing or a thing to dismiss?


Not only is it going to be lower, it will also leave the body much more quickly in a vaccinated person.

Does that mean that until we reach a level of herd immunity so that the virus dies off in the herd due to lack of hosts that it can latch onto and replicate we should not practice mitigation strategies such as still social distancing/wearing masks-no. But our resident Covidiots don't seem to think that is necessary, they would rather take horse de-wormer, a bleach enema, of aquarium cleaners.
 
2021-09-14 11:51:47 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: You can blame anti-vaxer types for the hospital shortages we're facing and certainly for a bunch of deaths, but the odds of them being the cause of a variant are pretty small


But the chance of them developing the variant that eludes the vaccine are significantly higher.

Fark_Guy_Rob: They'd know. Either using microchips or biometrics.


Sigh. Now to figure out the logistics of blackmarket microchips to sell to the unvaccinated.
 
2021-09-14 12:03:17 PM  

WilderKWight: Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: You could have just linked this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co​rrupted_Blood_incident

I don't play WoW, but that's hilarious.


My favorite part was this

Experts 2005: "This isn't reflective of reality, no one would intentionally spread an epidemic like this"


Experts 2021:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 12:07:12 PM  

thehobbes: But the chance of them developing the variant that eludes the vaccine are significantly higher.


I still don't see how that isn't the case everywhere? If the US had strict border controls and (for example) Nigeria didn't have any vaccine - then sure, the local population of unvaccinated would be a major concern.

But the same vaccines are already in all of these countries and we're slowly increasing the number of vaccinated in those countries. And the scale is an order of magnitude larger than what we have in the US with our antivax folks.

The virus doesn't care if I'm not vaccinated because 'Muh FREEDUMBS!!!' or because my country isn't wealthy enough, right? And all of these other countries will have a slowly growing number of vaccinated that would give the same opportunity for variants to develop alongside the vaccinated.
 
2021-09-14 12:09:35 PM  

CrashTheGame: Just wanted to point out that basically every comment made here is sophistry.


You can't really know that about anyone's comments but your own, so thanks for admitting this so we know not to take you seriously.
 
2021-09-14 12:09:45 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: But the same vaccines are already in all of these countries


No, they're not.
 
2021-09-14 12:13:51 PM  

Parthenogenetic: I guess GOP governors are planning to do that on a national scale?


No, because its not their responsibility to find hospital places for patients. They are completely removed from the consequences of their policies. That is the local jackhole with no tv interview access's problem.
 
2021-09-14 12:21:41 PM  

Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: You could have just linked this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co​rrupted_Blood_incident


One or two of our hunters may have been sad when they hotfixed Burning Adrenaline to disappear when you left the instance since they could no longer instant-cast their hearthstone to suicide bomb the Ironforge inn.
 
2021-09-14 12:25:26 PM  
Someone's going to have a loved one dying and rejected from a hospital, and that someone is gonna be both heavily armed and out of farks to give.

Whether that loved one is vaccinated or unvaccinated will determine my level of sympathy for when that person decides to "evict" covid patients from the ICU via lead-based termination of health services.
 
2021-09-14 12:29:19 PM  

Mr. Breeze: Sigh... Just found out this morning both my folks have it. Dad's in relatively decent health but mom has a lot of heart issues. They live in Montana so they thought they were less exposed.

It's easy to say unvaxxed people shouldn't go to the hospitals when it's not your own parents.


I get it. My sister and a lot of other family members have refused to get vaxxed and so far they've been lucky.

Honestly though... if any of them got it and had to go to the hospital I'm not sure how I'd feel about it. I've pretty much cut them out of my life because of the rampant Trumper crap. If it was my dad (he's vaxxed but only after I literally begged) I'd be devastated if this was how he died.

My nephew is getting married in December and already told my anti vaxxer relatives they can't come if they aren't vaccinated so it'll be interesting when they show up anyway because they just laughed it off.
 
2021-09-14 12:31:13 PM  
What % of beds were filled say 3 years ago?
 
2021-09-14 12:35:23 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I still don't see how that isn't the case everywhere? If the US had strict border controls and (for example) Nigeria didn't have any vaccine - then sure, the local population of unvaccinated would be a major concern.


I fear we're seeing more breakthrough cases as the virus is mutating to undermine the vaccine. Since the viral load is a thousand times higher with Delta than the original COVID-19 variant, that's 1000x more chances for the replication error (mutation) developing.

I hadn't seen anything about the viral load levels in breakthrough cases yet though, or if neutralization just takes place faster keeping viral loads down, but theoretically, the virus that does cause symptoms in the vaccinated can likely be spread...

above my paygrade though.
 
2021-09-14 12:36:45 PM  

TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.


DIAF
 
2021-09-14 12:44:12 PM  
The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding and much of it is being displayed by pro-vaxxers.

Pro-vaxxers please understand you are being emotionally manipulated with propaganda.  If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be out of control cases just like is happening in many places with 80%+ vax rates.  The effectivity of the vaccine wanes after several months and obese people in particular are having significant breakthrough infections with 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.

Re-opening and dropping social distancing is driving the spike in infection rates, not low vaccination rates.  Obesity and general poor health is driving American hospitalizations in particular.

Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.
 
2021-09-14 12:48:15 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding and much of it is being displayed by pro-vaxxers.

Pro-vaxxers please understand you are being emotionally manipulated with propaganda.  If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be out of control cases just like is happening in many places with 80%+ vax rates.  The effectivity of the vaccine wanes after several months and obese people in particular are having significant breakthrough infections with 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.

Re-opening and dropping social distancing is driving the spike in infection rates, not low vaccination rates.  Obesity and general poor health is driving American hospitalizations in particular.

Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.


This has to be one of if not the most stupid thing I read all day bout this.  What you are say is so full of fiction and has nothing based on fact.

Those of use who are saying its unvaccined cause this have read the data and follow those who have the facts not the stupid morons who spread false info with nothing to back them up.
 
2021-09-14 12:50:39 PM  
I feel like there was a canary in that coalmine at some point...oh right...ITALY 2020.
 
2021-09-14 12:53:29 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.


If you're claiming that anything like 70% of hospitalizations are vaccinated people, however chunky, you are really, really out there on a weird lunatic fringe.
 
2021-09-14 12:53:55 PM  
Declare martial law Biden. Make people do the right things!
 
2021-09-14 12:56:28 PM  

jumac: thegreatmurgatroid: The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding and much of it is being displayed by pro-vaxxers.

Pro-vaxxers please understand you are being emotionally manipulated with propaganda.  If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be out of control cases just like is happening in many places with 80%+ vax rates.  The effectivity of the vaccine wanes after several months and obese people in particular are having significant breakthrough infections with 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.

Re-opening and dropping social distancing is driving the spike in infection rates, not low vaccination rates.  Obesity and general poor health is driving American hospitalizations in particular.

Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.

This has to be one of if not the most stupid thing I read all day bout this.  What you are say is so full of fiction and has nothing based on fact.

Those of use who are saying its unvaccined cause this have read the data and follow those who have the facts not the stupid morons who spread false info with nothing to back them up.


Ive not only read the data but am a medical expert myself and have been on the front lines the entirety of the pandemic.  I would I am one of the highest credentialed on fark in regards to the covid pandemic in both terms of formal education and actual experience.

I am telling you that most of you have no idea what you're talking about.  You are just repeating things you've heard, just as you claim the "plague rats" are doing.
 
2021-09-14 1:08:05 PM  

Parthenogenetic: As of Monday morning, more than 96,000 hospital beds are filled with Covid-19 patients nationwide -- contributing to the 77% of all hospital beds across the country being currently in use, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services. About 80% of intensive care unit beds are in use.

Hospitals in some places are closer to capacity than in others.

Health care, like politics, is mostly local. A nationwide, aggregate measure of hospital/ICU capacity is of limited usefulness because it's not easy to transfer patients from hard-hit areas to distant hospitals with available beds. But sure, I guess we *could* load up a bunch of covid patients on a plane and ship them from, say, Texas to Wisconsin.

Here in Ohio, hospitals are reluctant to suspend elective procedures, because that's how they make most of their revenue, and they took a huge hit last year. Each health system is justifying business as usual by reasoning that if a covid surge hits, they can just transfer patients somewhere else. That's great, but the entire state is playing chicken with everyone else, and we're just whistling in the dark until a statewide surge forces everyone to dial it back.

I guess GOP governors are planning to do that on a national scale?


Just for funsies I looked up my residency hospital. 21 of 22 full-service ICU beds taken. I've never seen that.
 
2021-09-14 1:17:24 PM  

Rapmaster2000: asmodeus224: Rapmaster2000: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Every hospital in the capital region of PA was asking EMS to divert patients to other facilities yesterday.

It's curious how covidiots want nothing to do with the science of the vaccine but are just fine with the science of intubation. Why fix the bad circuit breaker when you can just wait for the fire trucks?

I read an article this morning about a couple in their 30s who both died from Covid.  They didn't get the vaccine because they were "waiting for more information."  3 billion people have gotten a shot.  The initial shots went in arms in March of 2020.

What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They are waiting on Nicki Manaj to complete her research, duh.

"They want you to get vaccinated for the Met," Minaj, 38, tweeted Monday night. "if I get vaccinated it won't for the Met. It'll be once I feel I've done enough research. I'm working on that now."


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nicki-min​aj-covid-vaccine-met-gala/

"Feel I've done enough research.  I'm working on that now."

So she's up late peer reviewing the Pfizer data?


Most certainly!
 
2021-09-14 1:54:43 PM  

dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads


I'm sorry. :( I hope it comes back negative.
 
2021-09-14 2:03:17 PM  

Wesdog: Since the blame lies directly at the feet of people who won't get vaccinated and who still refuse to wear masks or social distance it is entirely appropriate and necessary to blame and shame them publicly as loudly as we can to as many people as possible. I learned about respiratory viruses in middle school health class. Wearing a mask reduces transmission of that kind of virus. I've known this since I was 11 in 6th grade.


Ironically if you were 11 today you'd be learning that in a building full of unvaccinated kids where social distancing and mask-wearing all day is logistically impossible.
 
2021-09-14 2:07:48 PM  

dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads


My wife recently had a breakthrough case, but 3 PCR tests all came back negative. An at-home antigen kit showed pale pink (it is like a pregnancy test) so positive, but barely, twice. She had a fever off and on for 6 days, with dizzyness while warm, but otherwise felt fine when she wasn't feverish.

Best of luck, and be aware that the PCR isn't necessarily indicative; it is binary, either you meet the threshold or you don't, while the antigen is more analog and can provide more... nuanced information and may allow you to avoid a false negative.

Also, her first antigen test strip did not turn pink in the 10 minutes specified; it did, however, turn pink sometime in the next 2 days as when she next looked at it 3 days later it had gone pink. The second test (24h later) was a very faint pink in the 10 minutes, and got brighter as time went on.
 
2021-09-14 2:11:53 PM  
madgonad:

Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU.

I am very sorry for your loss. My sincerest sympathies.
 
2021-09-14 2:14:17 PM  
Is the economics of running a hospital the same as that of running a restaurant? In other words, the more tables / beds you have filled, the more money you make in the long run (even if you do have to bring in extra staff, etc., to manage the rush) ?

Or would that comparison work only if everyone receiving services at a hospital could pay full price for them in a timely fashion? (Which will never happen in the U.S., of course.)
 
2021-09-14 2:18:55 PM  

kpaxoid: jso2897: kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?

A lot of people remember it.  So what?
Got a point?

Just wondering why they're not happening now.


Because Banana Joe has it all under control!
 
2021-09-14 2:36:31 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 2:50:42 PM  
Not that things are perfect elsewhere but I cannot help but wonder how much of this is due to the American cult of individualism. Let me give an example: in the other G7 countries there are various national health systems. All of these offer abortions. Sure the rules are different in each case but there's no way the politicians are going to deny this to fifty per cent of the taxpaying adults.

This makes abortion a done and dusted issue in those countries - yes, I am simplifying.

Not that there are not antivax loonies outside of the US, but with national health systems everyone has a stake, and responsibility. All of our choices together have an impact on our taxes. Public health is literally something we all have a stake in.

A cult of individualism doesn't help in population-wide problems.

Again, I'm not claiming life elsewhere is a utopia.

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2021-09-14 3:13:02 PM  

gaslight: Not that things are perfect elsewhere but I cannot help but wonder how much of this is due to the American cult of individualism. Let me give an example: in the other G7 countries there are various national health systems. All of these offer abortions. Sure the rules are different in each case but there's no way the politicians are going to deny this to fifty per cent of the taxpaying adults.

This makes abortion a done and dusted issue in those countries - yes, I am simplifying.

Not that there are not antivax loonies outside of the US, but with national health systems everyone has a stake, and responsibility. All of our choices together have an impact on our taxes. Public health is literally something we all have a stake in.

A cult of individualism doesn't help in population-wide problems.

Again, I'm not claiming life elsewhere is a utopia.

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and those other countries have fewer abortions.  Almost like the the policies of those that claim to be pro-life are actually just anti-life and anti-women's rights.
 
2021-09-14 3:13:37 PM  

great_tigers: My FIL got the vaccine. Just spent a week in the ICU.


Did he die?  If not, then maybe that shot saved him
 
2021-09-14 3:42:19 PM  

Clearly Canadian: [i.imgur.com image 850x566]


This ones a keeper
 
2021-09-14 3:50:14 PM  

db2: I don't think the Hippocratic oath says anything about declining to treat a patient. Tell the voluntarily unvaccinated to take a hike.


In California at least, anyone who walks into an ER MUST be treated, regardless of culpability in their injury or ability to pay for care. I am not sure about the rest of the country, but legally the hospital cannot turn them away if they ask for care.
 
2021-09-14 3:57:01 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.


You said a bunch of other wrong things, but I want to focus on this.

ERs and ICUs have elevated staffing requirements. As ICUs fill up more staff is brought in to maintain enough head count to meet the needs of every occupied room. As entire wards are transitioned from standard hospital wards to Covid ICUs the hospital has to find a LOT more nurses and medical professionals. They are paying huge bonuses to skilled nurses to cover additional shifts because the hospital may currently requires 120 nurses onsite at all hours when they previously only needed 70. A friend has been offered as much as a $1,200 differential to cover an additional shift when a new ward was converted to ICU. Nurses are certified, highly skilled, and well trained. You can't just put up a Help Wanted sign and train some English majors to treat patients over a couple weeks. Retired nurses have been reentering the job market to make serious money, but the numbers aren't huge because retired nurses are often at greater risk for serious Covid symptoms if (when) they finally catch it due to patient exposure.
 
2021-09-14 4:25:44 PM  

madgonad: thegreatmurgatroid: Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.

You said a bunch of other wrong things, but I want to focus on this.

ERs and ICUs have elevated staffing requirements. As ICUs fill up more staff is brought in to maintain enough head count to meet the needs of every occupied room. As entire wards are transitioned from standard hospital wards to Covid ICUs the hospital has to find a LOT more nurses and medical professionals. They are paying huge bonuses to skilled nurses to cover additional shifts because the hospital may currently requires 120 nurses onsite at all hours when they previously only needed 70. A friend has been offered as much as a $1,200 differential to cover an additional shift when a new ward was converted to ICU. Nurses are certified, highly skilled, and well trained. You can't just put up a Help Wanted sign and train some English majors to treat patients over a couple weeks. Retired nurses have been reentering the job market to make serious money, but the numbers aren't huge because retired nurses are often at greater risk for serious Covid symptoms if (when) they finally catch it due to patient exposure.


^^^This so much.
Where I live, the regional health care systems are offering a bonus $15,000 to new nurse hires.
An example:
https://careers.upmc.com/jobs/6982852​-​professional-staff-nurse-med-surg-4d-1​5000-dollars-sign-on-bonus
 
2021-09-14 4:36:28 PM  

I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.


Yep
 
2021-09-14 5:23:29 PM  

bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?


Hospitals that are for profit entities are not optimized for the public good, they are optimized for profitability. The public good does not affect the bottom line. Good job America.
 
2021-09-14 5:45:53 PM  

Por que tan serioso: dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads

Damn son. Hope you make it.


Well it's not covid, just a bad summer cold.

Antivaxxers are still shiatheads tho
 
2021-09-14 6:12:52 PM  

TheVirginMarty: What I'm really getting at is that the popular trend is just blame the unvaxed. They are a part of the problem. The millions of morons in the world who think having a vaccine means they can go back to risky behavior is the bigger problem.


You're remarkably stupid.
 
2021-09-14 6:49:24 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: Ive not only read the data but am a medical expert myself and have been on the front lines the entirety of the pandemic. I would I am one of the highest credentialed on fark in regards to the covid pandemic in both terms of formal education and actual experience.


And this is your wife.

lakehighlands.advocatemag.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-14 6:53:52 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: Ive not only read the data but am a medical expert myself and have been on the front lines the entirety of the pandemic.  I would I am one of the highest credentialed on fark in regards to the covid pandemic in both terms of formal education and actual experience.


From my reading and teaching at university, the vaccine is necesary but not sufficient. We need higher vacciantion numbers, and also to lockdown and quarantine for a few weeks o that the vaccine can do its thing, like every previous vaccine required. Then we can minlge in ouir 21st century nearly-borderles high density and high-speed society again. WIthout lockdown and quarantine for a few weeks, the vaccines will wane before they can actually put the Delta variant to bed.

However, there are so many people refusing to get vaccinated, and those same people are insisting that they mingle (I had an anti-vax pizza delivery guy a few weeks ago, a job that goes toe very door in town, so no more pizza for me yikes). Step One for every person is to get vaccinated and then Step Two: Lockdown Booglaoo will work. Until then, apparently, even reducing my contact to near nothing and ordering deliveries is not going to out-maneuver the unvaxxed.
 
2021-09-14 7:02:29 PM  

TheVirginMarty: The viral load of delta is ridiculously high. Some say up to 1,000% higher in delta. Even if there's a 90% reduction in viral load due to vaccine the load is still elevated in delta.

What I'm really getting at is that the popular trend is just blame the unvaxed. They are a part of the problem. The millions of morons in the world who think having a vaccine means they can go back to risky behavior is the bigger problem.

The ones who are piling into theme parks and riding attractions which haven't been wiped down after rides. The people crowding in venues like dance clubs again. How many millions are going to decide that a shot means no more hand washing in those conditions?


Your whole point is demonstrably false.  You can easily correlate reduced hospitalizations and deaths to higher vaccination rates in Blue states and other countries like Canada.
 
2021-09-14 8:05:00 PM  
Some new Comrades of Curtis seem to be out pushing the anti-vaxxer bullshiat.
 
2021-09-14 8:16:20 PM  

Eightballjacket: bostonguy: Why is any hospital admitting anyone who is eligible for the vaccine and has not gotten it?

It's in the article, they have to, it is federal law. ERs are often full of people who do dumb and/or illegal things and get treatment.


The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act or EMTALA requires hospitals with emergency departments to provide a medical screening exam to any person who comes to the emergency department and requests care. The law also prohibits hospitals with emergency departments from refusing to examine or treat people with emergency medical conditions.Now, during the pandemic, many of the Covid-19 patients filling hospital beds are unvaccinated. EMTALA obligations remain in place.


Screening. That's what they must provide. I've seen it posted in urgent care clinics in the normal times. But not treatment. Executive order here has authorized full triage with exemption from any liability on the hospital and it's staff. Welcome to the new normal.
 
2021-09-14 8:16:42 PM  

great_tigers: great_tigers: My FIL got the vaccine. Just spent a week in the ICU.

That said, I firmly believe the only reason why he isn't dead is because he got the vaccine.


Mine too.
 
2021-09-14 8:17:52 PM  

falkone32: kpaxoid: Does no one remember the "flattening the curve" lockdowns?

Yes and they're not going to let it happen again, sadly.


Oh, that ship has sailed. To bad we could pack all the covidiots onto a free seven day cruise to the Bermuda triangle
 
2021-09-14 8:19:20 PM  

The Headless Horseman's Headless Horse: Rapmaster2000: What exactly are people waiting for?  What specific piece of information is needed?

They're waiting for their radio hosts, bloggers, propagandists and Twitter doctors to give them the okay to do so.

Which is futile, because any new development is just twisted and turned into more insipidly stupid motherf*cking bullsh*t conspiracy.

Pfizer getting full approval should have been the end of this, but noooo, the same assholes pushing this nonsense from the beginning had to start screaming that it wasn't fully approved yet because "Comirnaty is a different formulation" than the shiat people have been getting for 18 goddamn months.


Let's not forget that the deep state "invented" Delta to keep everyone in line.

/S
 
2021-09-14 8:22:57 PM  

jumac: we had a talk bout this other day at work.  i have a coworker who is saying that the hospital are lying.  Shes a anti-covid person(saids it a real thing but that we are blowing it way out of proportion.)

She claims

1. that hospitals have the beds but because they are making their staff get the vaccine and so many are quiting/getting fired that they are under staff and if they just stop they be all fine.

2. that people have gone into hospitals with hidden cameras and gotten videos of crap ton of empty beds. (none of which i can find online lol).

3. that the mainstream media is lying to us for the gov.  and they are hidden the truth from us. and that only the non mainstream media is telling it like it is.

Trying to explain stuff to her bout how rights work and stuff and she go off the deep end.  to her our right are 100% active all the time and can never be limited.


Regarding number 2) I finally went into a deep dive on the sorryantivaxxer.com site. Comments and all. There is a commenter there that copypasta the same claim in many threads: the site is just cherry picking, and it would be easy to find as many cases of folks dying horribly from the vaccine. It's farking sad tbh.
 
2021-09-14 8:25:35 PM  

Por que tan serioso: dumbobruni: I'm currently waiting for PCR results to see if I have a breakthrough case.

Thanks a lot you antivax shiatheads

Damn son. Hope you make it.


Same. At least they're smart enough to be vaxxed. Stay healthy!
 
2021-09-14 8:37:27 PM  

jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

Now under the 1905 case the SCOTUS said that the state have the right and responsibility  to put into place limitations for people who are considered a threat at this time.

Could any lawsuit brought by a state backfire?  I mean could it get to SCOTUS and the judges go well if you states had been doing your job then the pres wouldn't have to do this.  I know some say that the feds should try and use the commerce clause to take over control of how we deal with this. could SCOTUS say the states messed up so bad that they are turn it over to the feds?


I can't answer your question, but I expect a lot of pushback. It's extremely sad that we've come to this point. I personally have a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth over the mandates, but I willingly got my shots in April (earlier than I expected), and I now have a required vaccine passport. To me these measures are pushing the boundaries of my principals, but you know what? It's almost like we wouldn't need such measures if people actually did the right thing. I'm not going to get all "slippery slope" I think the feds will face a legitimate challenge to their authority though, and I agree with the latter part of you question... Get with the program, or no money for you. Cut off fed funds to plague states.
 
2021-09-14 8:43:06 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

That's what they're going to try, but OSHA is well established and unless they get a ruling saying COVID-19 isn't an occupational risk, they're going to lose badly.

This isn't a vaccine mandate on everyone. That would be a state matter. This is a vaccine mandate within already granted federal powers.


I think most of the legal pushback will come from the private businesses. Biden is the boss of the executive branch, and a vast majority of federal employees work for him. He can totally mandate a vax there. Federal contractors under the executive branch as well. Could be that using OSHA is an over reach of executive power, but I think we're gonna find out.
 
2021-09-14 8:57:44 PM  

TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.


Wow. No. If one is vaccinated, they will not likely have a long sustained infection that requires hospitalization and is more likely to result in death or vital mutations. And vaccinated individuals are still way less likely to contract or transmit covid. This messaging point pisses me off some much because it is a leverage for the antivaxxers: "durr durr, if you can still get it it's not a vaccine". It's not a farking bug, it's a feature. Vaccines don't create a goddamn magic shield that prevent pathogens from entering your body. They arm your immune system to fight off the invaders before they can overwhelm your immune system and make you sick.
 
2021-09-14 9:00:13 PM  

valenumr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

That's what they're going to try, but OSHA is well established and unless they get a ruling saying COVID-19 isn't an occupational risk, they're going to lose badly.

This isn't a vaccine mandate on everyone. That would be a state matter. This is a vaccine mandate within already granted federal powers.

I think most of the legal pushback will come from the private businesses. Biden is the boss of the executive branch, and a vast majority of federal employees work for him. He can totally mandate a vax there. Federal contractors under the executive branch as well. Could be that using OSHA is an over reach of executive power, but I think we're gonna find out.


most private business will like it.  take the issue out of their hands and gives them some protection form lawsuits.
 
2021-09-14 9:01:28 PM  

flucto: I sound fat: Bennie Crabtree: I sound fat: Hospitals would refer to this as under capacity.

Seriously, do you think they build hospitals to be a third full?

Hello. I am sure that, like many people, (my aunt, for example), you've spent several weeks in a coma because of Covid.

During that time, and your recovery, American (and everyone else's), hospitals were walloped with far worse damage than any single terrorist attack would have done. Consider this: If terrorists had blown up every hopital in the USA, on the ame day, they would have been rebuilt by now and their equipment rebuilt. Only one shift of worker would have been injured or killed.

Instead, Covid has given the hopitals the worst case emergency scenario all day, every day, for over a year. All shifts. Relentlessly. Doctors with decades of knowledge have burned out or been diabled with brain fog and lung damage, meaning that the most valuable people whio coordinate entire wings of hospitals are no longer available. Menawhile, there were attempts to repair the damage, like hiring every reitred nure and doctor, hiring immigrants with medical staff experience that do not usually qualify, fast-tracking med school and nursing school students. There is still no way to meet the demand for equipment, becaue even with war measure invoked to produce equipment, the factories are also in a pandemic.

It is easy to miss the scale of the disaster while we are all suffering our personal apocalypses. ...Apocalae? ..Apocaleese? Anyhow. Hospitals are not equipped to run at 77%. They cannot properly run at any capacity. What you see is more like MASH meatball medicine than anything. They need people to quarantine and/or lockdown. Even the vaccinated.

Well, i DID have respiratory and sepsis due to covid.

What the hell does that have to due with the fact that 77 percent is not threatened capacity?

If they couldnt run at 77% capacity, 76 would be 100 percent capacity.  Your logic is laughable

Hospitals and their staffing are not designed to function with 76% of their patients needing critical care simultaneously. If they were then their ICUs would be far bigger, or maybe the whole thing would just be one massive ICU. It doesn't work that way, and you either know this and are being edgy or you need to rethink your "logic."


Think about this... Hospitals are offering over $6000 per week to bring in critical care nurses on travel contracts. That's like $320k per year. Everyone is exhausted, and resources are running thin.
 
2021-09-14 9:03:10 PM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.


I guess you haven't been paying attention at all. Current guidance is to continue social distancing and masking if fully vaxxed. Not saying everyone is doing it, tbf.
 
2021-09-14 9:13:43 PM  

TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.


Damn, that's almost shakes tiny fist level.
 
2021-09-14 9:18:55 PM  

flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updat​es/2021/08/breakthrough-infections

Spoiler:  .02% of fully vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections weekly. That's 35,000 out of approximately 1,000,0000 cases at the current rates. So sure, allocate 3.5% of the blame if you want but let's not leave out the other 96.5% from the blame analysis.

A vaccine trains the immune system the recognize and fight a pathogen. It is not a magic forcefield that stops the virus from entering a human body. The virus can still enter the body and can still replicate.  If it is in a person it can leave a person via the normal infectious vectors.

It seems like you're leaving viral load out of your calculation.  The vaccine helps the immune system fight off the infection and that means that the viral load in most vaccinated people is going to be far lower. That means they are not contagious or are fare less than they otherwise would have been.

How is this a bad thing or a thing to dismiss?


Ugh, now I feel like I supported an argument I didn't mean to support. You are correct.
 
2021-09-14 9:27:35 PM  

buttercat: I have a friend who studied Genetics in college and he blasts people with this when they say they have done their research.  They really don't know and don't realize they don't know.  It's legitimate D-K.

[Fark user image image 720x832]


I've done critical review. I always started with outlining with key cites. If there is something I was unfamiliar with or that smelled funny, I would either dig into the cites or consult a colleague. Granted, most of this was more on math and tech, not biology, virology, or epidemiology, but the principal is the same. It takes weeks and multiple heads to really evaluate science. A news article with a preprint is not good science, but that is very common today.
 
2021-09-14 9:33:00 PM  

Wesdog: TheVirginMarty: flucto: TheVirginMarty: I still don't understand why people are blaming people who have not been vaccinated. Where does it say that any of the vaccines prevent infection? They help reduce the severity of and infection when that person becomes infected. Everyone who contacts the virus can spread it.

Maybe it's people who were vaccinated and are acting like they are immune from infection which are the problem. Maybe they need to stay socially distant and keep wearing masks so that they don't get and spread the virus.

"Because people on sidewalks are sometimes hit by cars it makes no sense to pretend it's more dangerous to stand in the middle of the freeway."

Being vaccinated doesn't stop people from carrying and spreading the virus. Blaming unvaccinated people negates the need for the vaccinated to continue to social distance and wear a mask.

I've worn my mask everywhere and maintain a good distance from everyone. I don't go anywhere I don't need to go. I live in Arkansas and I would say that less than 50% of people in my area wore a mask last year. Now in a crowd of 50 people I'm likely the only one wearing a mask. In a store it's normally me and the employees.

The people who refused to get vaccinated are responsible for the variants like Delta and Mu. How? They spread the virus to vaccinated people and some were mutated enough to get past the bodies immune response for the original virus. That spread to unvaccinated folks and there you go, the Delta variant. Less than 10% of vaccinated people exposed to the virus will get a breakthrough infection. I think 7 point something percent was what I saw. If people got vaccinated as soon as they could and continued to wear masks and distance we would have the world nearly ready to go back to normal.

Since the blame lies directly at the feet of people who won't get vaccinated and who still refuse to wear masks or social distance it is entirely appropriate and necessary to blame and shame them publicly as loudly as we can to as many people as possible. I learned about respiratory viruses in middle school health class. Wearing a mask reduces transmission of that kind of virus. I've known this since I was 11 in 6th grade. People who aren't wearing masks aren't going to suddenly start. If they were intelligent enough or compassionate enough to care about other peoples health as well as their own they would already be wearing a mask. This isn't about "changing peoples minds" anymore. This is about not worrying about people's feeling, fark their feelings. They don't care if they spread COVID to someones kid who ends up dying I'm not going to give a flying fark about their feelings.

The intelligent people are getting vaccinated and wearing masks/distancing. The people who are smart enough to listen to the knowledge and advice from people who have spent their entire careers in medicine or medical research. I'm just hoping I can get my kids vaccinated soon. Then these morons can kill each other with COVID as hard and fast as they want. I hope they enjoy the freedom of drowning in their own mucus and may they all rot in hell. I'd donate to a fund for them to have big arena rallies with 20,000 attending. Maybe Eric Clapton and Van Morrison could headline.

These people do not care about you. If they had a functional brain and even a tiny little bit of critical thinking skills they would get vaccinated and wear a mask/distance. You can argue and yell all you want but you won't  convince that brick wall to turn into a cloud. It doesn't matter if we blame the unvaccinated for all of this current mess its not going to effect mask wearing in any way. The people who are going to wear a mask are already doing it. Nobody is going to suddenly start wearing a mask 18 months into a global pandemic because you didn't blame the unvaccinated.

Really think doctors should stop treating people who aren't vaccinated. Do No Harm includes the harm they are doing by treating these idiots. If you give the bed to an unvaccinated COVID patient who will likely take up that bed for 2 to 4 weeks or more before dying, how many others will not get treatment because of that? There is literally a free easy way to avoid dying from COVID. Anyone who refuses that should be kicked to the back of the line for healthcare if they get COVID.


Given my somewhat limited insights on the topic (only math modeling), I think the antivaxxers are a bigger problem re: mutation. They are suffering very long (three or more weeks) of intense infections with all kinds of novel treatments.

If you are vaxxed and get exposed, most likely outcome is the virus will die in your body. If you're not vaxxed, and get exposed, there is a decent chance you will incubate the virus for a long time.
 
2021-09-14 9:54:39 PM  

flucto: madgonad: Mr. Breeze: Oh I'm well farking aware, trust me. My kids have cystic fibrosis and we have largely been cut off from society (and extended family) for the past 19 months. It doesn't change the fact that you don't want to see your parents die at home.

Well, three weeks ago I watched my father die in the ICU. He actually wanted to die at home, but I don't think you can check someone out of the hospital AMA when they can't breath without high-flow pure O2. They will let you shift to comfort care, but if they are non-responsive they won't let you tug them into a wheelchair and then roll to the parking lot. It doesn't matter where it is, it is always farking terrible and leaves friends and family in tatters.

That's what makes me so angry at the willfully unvaccinated. I understand the insanity of ignoring the risk to yourself. People ride motorcycles without helmets. It is the sociopathology of directly and indirectly harming the people around them - many of those people they claim to love.

Dude/Doodah. I'm sorry for your loss. My best-ever boss once told me that one should never spend even one second trying to understand crazy, its motivations, goals, etc. It's beyond reason by definition. That's where we are I think. 100,000,000 crazy people who are beyond the reach of reason, sympathy, empathy, patriotism, or even care for their own lives. It's impossible to understand or to reason with.


I'd say on the crazy side it's more like 60 million, but that's still a shiatty number. And I mean the actual really crazy. There is a lot of FUD going on, and some folks that are hesitant aren't exactly off the rails. What I mean is, they could could change their minds. But there are many who are beyond hope. It's farked up.

I actually wrote an email to my poli-sci professor from many moons ago, one of my favorite mentors in college. This was ore 01/06, and we had a few back and forth a about the political climate and covid and what the future might hold (at that time). Neither one of us predicted any of this bazaar timeline.
 
2021-09-14 10:00:02 PM  

munko: Neil B. for Zod: What percentage should be taken?  Honest question... one of biggest abuses of statistics is to omit the context that provides meaning.  The article also carefully lists beds in use by Covid patients as a number and not percentage so there is absolutely no way to compare the relative impact.

To top it off, the article then links to a dashboard, the bane of any contextual understanding.

The Internet (and modern journalism) is making us dumber.

Also, the article fails to mention what the normal occupancy rates are for percentage of bed taken normally.  Some try to keep their beds full, for the $$$$'s.  Why would they ever want 0 beds taken?  Emergency rooms and ICU's are normally very busy and often are short on open beds.


Standard propaganda bull shiat. Yep, covid is fake and the medico-industrio complex is cashing in.
 
2021-09-14 10:03:50 PM  

thehobbes: Fark_Guy_Rob: We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.

They'll just lie. Same people are the ones who flooded VAERS with reports of vaccine reactions and fatalities.

They have no accountability.


I live in a high vax place. Almost (a couple outliers) everyone I know even casually is vaxxed. One (hesitant) person got legit covid arm (rash and swelling) after the first shot, but still got the second after some coaxing. I've not seen any complaints from anybody else.
 
2021-09-14 10:08:18 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Wesdog: The people who refused to get vaccinated are responsible for the variants like Delta and Mu.?

Statistically speaking, I think this is very unlikely. They just make an easy target/scapegoat.

The percentage of people refusing the vaccine, especially in the US which is what most people are Fark talk about (MAGA idiots refusing the vaccine are allowing variants) would be completely dwarfed by all the people who just don't have them. But, ya know, that's costly and might make us feel uncomfortable to admit our wealthy first-world privilege. The virus doesn't care.


The Congo, Haiti, Chad, South Sudan, Turkmenistan, Tanzania, Madagascar, Yemn, Syria, Benin, Mali, Cameroon, Somalia, Sudan, Niger, Zambia, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Uganda, Liberia, Ethiopia, Ghana, Central African Republic, and Guinea-Bissau all have less than 3% of their populations vaccinated.

If you look at countries with less than 10% or 20% it's a considerable number of people. And that's not even talking about people too young for the vaccine.

In the US - we're at like 76% of the 18+ group that has been encouraged to the vaccine. Surveys show that less than 20% of adults in the US refuse the vaccine. But let's just assume it's the full 24% who haven't had at least one shot.

260 million adults in the US. 20% of that is 52 million people. That's a lot of people, sure. But it's smaller than the ~74 million children under the age of 18 in the US and it's a drop in the bucket compared to the combined populations of the countries with less than 3% vaccinated.

Just look at Nigeria. It has ~205 million people and only 2% are even partially vaccinated. That's FOUR TIMES as many vaccinated people as every singe anti-vaxer American. FOUR TIMES. And that's just ONE other country. Look at a few more....Bangladesh has 164 million with 13% partially vaccinated...meaning 143 million not. Ethiopia has 115 million and only 2.1% are partially vaccinated...meaning 112 million unvaccinated.

Nigeria, Bangladesh and Ethiopia collectively have 455 million people without vaccination against COVID-19. The US might have 50 million anti-vax iditos. That's 9 times more chance of a variant from just those three countries.

You can blame anti-vaxer types for the hospital shortages we're facing and certainly for a bunch of deaths, but the odds of them being the cause of a variant are pretty small.


No. Delta was around before vaccines. What comes next is up in the air. It's people having long, sustained infections that are spinning variants. That may change, but the current situation is that those legitimately infected with long term illness are the problem.
 
2021-09-14 10:13:45 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: thehobbes: Fark_Guy_Rob: We should stop treating vaccinated people - they made poor life choices and now should suffer the consequences.

They'll just lie. Same people are the ones who flooded VAERS with reports of vaccine reactions and fatalities.

They have no accountability.

Under my system, medical records would be detailed and controlled by the government run healthcare system. They'd know. Either using microchips or biometrics. If anyone was unidentifiable (say we use fingerprints but you are severely burned and they can't read it) then you'd get treatment until they can identify you. Provided you are compliant with the medical requirements, treatment will continue.

If you are not compliant they'd transport you to the exterior of the building. You'd be liable for the cost of all treatment incurred, naturally.


You basically just cited everything the antivaxxers are rallying against. Look at the pushback against Biden's latest plan. Do you seriously think that will work,or are you being sarcastic?
 
2021-09-14 10:18:15 PM  

thegreatmurgatroid: The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding and much of it is being displayed by pro-vaxxers.

Pro-vaxxers please understand you are being emotionally manipulated with propaganda.  If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be out of control cases just like is happening in many places with 80%+ vax rates.  The effectivity of the vaccine wanes after several months and obese people in particular are having significant breakthrough infections with 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.

Re-opening and dropping social distancing is driving the spike in infection rates, not low vaccination rates.  Obesity and general poor health is driving American hospitalizations in particular.

Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.


*citations need* *plural*
 
2021-09-14 10:19:39 PM  

jumac: thegreatmurgatroid: The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding and much of it is being displayed by pro-vaxxers.

Pro-vaxxers please understand you are being emotionally manipulated with propaganda.  If everyone was vaccinated, there would still be out of control cases just like is happening in many places with 80%+ vax rates.  The effectivity of the vaccine wanes after several months and obese people in particular are having significant breakthrough infections with 70%+ of hospitalizations being in obese individuals.

Re-opening and dropping social distancing is driving the spike in infection rates, not low vaccination rates.  Obesity and general poor health is driving American hospitalizations in particular.

Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.

This has to be one of if not the most stupid thing I read all day bout this.  What you are say is so full of fiction and has nothing based on fact.

Those of use who are saying its unvaccined cause this have read the data and follow those who have the facts not the stupid morons who spread false info with nothing to back them up.


I wonder where that one funny came from...
 
2021-09-14 10:22:04 PM  

Sword and Shield: Parthenogenetic: As of Monday morning, more than 96,000 hospital beds are filled with Covid-19 patients nationwide -- contributing to the 77% of all hospital beds across the country being currently in use, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services. About 80% of intensive care unit beds are in use.

Hospitals in some places are closer to capacity than in others.

Health care, like politics, is mostly local. A nationwide, aggregate measure of hospital/ICU capacity is of limited usefulness because it's not easy to transfer patients from hard-hit areas to distant hospitals with available beds. But sure, I guess we *could* load up a bunch of covid patients on a plane and ship them from, say, Texas to Wisconsin.

Here in Ohio, hospitals are reluctant to suspend elective procedures, because that's how they make most of their revenue, and they took a huge hit last year. Each health system is justifying business as usual by reasoning that if a covid surge hits, they can just transfer patients somewhere else. That's great, but the entire state is playing chicken with everyone else, and we're just whistling in the dark until a statewide surge forces everyone to dial it back.

I guess GOP governors are planning to do that on a national scale?

Just for funsies I looked up my residency hospital. 21 of 22 full-service ICU beds taken. I've never seen that.


We are out of space in the ICU, and we are putting bodies in freezer trucks. One of the lowest covid incident states per capita.
 
2021-09-14 10:29:10 PM  

gaslight: Not that things are perfect elsewhere but I cannot help but wonder how much of this is due to the American cult of individualism. Let me give an example: in the other G7 countries there are various national health systems. All of these offer abortions. Sure the rules are different in each case but there's no way the politicians are going to deny this to fifty per cent of the taxpaying adults.

This makes abortion a done and dusted issue in those countries - yes, I am simplifying.

Not that there are not antivax loonies outside of the US, but with national health systems everyone has a stake, and responsibility. All of our choices together have an impact on our taxes. Public health is literally something we all have a stake in.

A cult of individualism doesn't help in population-wide problems.

Again, I'm not claiming life elsewhere is a utopia.

[Fark user image image 850x785]


It's all individualism and core tenets of the right. Viewed from their lens, it's almost expected. Paying folks to not work, government telling people what to do, throw in a sprinkle of blame china, massive spending bills, shutting down mom and pop businesses, government control. A narrative is being pushed that conflicts with the core party beliefs. Of course it is a shiat show.

There is a laundry list of things happening that make this a perfect storm, if you will.
 
2021-09-14 10:31:52 PM  

madgonad: thegreatmurgatroid: Also, most "capacity" issues in American hospitals are the result of lack of staffing.  Entire inpatient wards of hospitals are closed due to lacking staff.  ERs are having to board admitted patients because nobody else is available to provide their inpatient care because so many staff have left the front lines.

You said a bunch of other wrong things, but I want to focus on this.

ERs and ICUs have elevated staffing requirements. As ICUs fill up more staff is brought in to maintain enough head count to meet the needs of every occupied room. As entire wards are transitioned from standard hospital wards to Covid ICUs the hospital has to find a LOT more nurses and medical professionals. They are paying huge bonuses to skilled nurses to cover additional shifts because the hospital may currently requires 120 nurses onsite at all hours when they previously only needed 70. A friend has been offered as much as a $1,200 differential to cover an additional shift when a new ward was converted to ICU. Nurses are certified, highly skilled, and well trained. You can't just put up a Help Wanted sign and train some English majors to treat patients over a couple weeks. Retired nurses have been reentering the job market to make serious money, but the numbers aren't huge because retired nurses are often at greater risk for serious Covid symptoms if (when) they finally catch it due to patient exposure.


Travel agencies are paying in excess of 6k a week in some places.
 
2021-09-14 10:35:51 PM  

jumac: valenumr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

That's what they're going to try, but OSHA is well established and unless they get a ruling saying COVID-19 isn't an occupational risk, they're going to lose badly.

This isn't a vaccine mandate on everyone. That would be a state matter. This is a vaccine mandate within already granted federal powers.

I think most of the legal pushback will come from the private businesses. Biden is the boss of the executive branch, and a vast majority of federal employees work for him. He can totally mandate a vax there. Federal contractors under the executive branch as well. Could be that using OSHA is an over reach of executive power, but I think we're gonna find out.

most private business will like it.  take the issue out of their hands and gives them some protection form lawsuits.


I hope so.
 
2021-09-14 10:42:13 PM  

jumac: valenumr: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: jumac: going ask a question here bout Biden vaccine mandate for business over 100 employees.   I know some state are saying they going sue.  I would guess they are going say that its a state right power not a fed power to order something like that.

That's what they're going to try, but OSHA is well established and unless they get a ruling saying COVID-19 isn't an occupational risk, they're going to lose badly.

This isn't a vaccine mandate on everyone. That would be a state matter. This is a vaccine mandate within already granted federal powers.

I think most of the legal pushback will come from the private businesses. Biden is the boss of the executive branch, and a vast majority of federal employees work for him. He can totally mandate a vax there. Federal contractors under the executive branch as well. Could be that using OSHA is an over reach of executive power, but I think we're gonna find out.

most private business will like it.  take the issue out of their hands and gives them some protection form lawsuits.


So, I think the point your missing is a lot of small businesses are pissed about previous shutdowns. There is a lot of distrust in that world. The rules made big box stores and major chains have a huge advantage earlier. I don't mean to start an argument or anything.
 
2021-09-14 11:29:29 PM  
Propaganda 101: Blame all problems on your opponents no matter what. Then you can free yourself of fault.
 
2021-09-15 10:51:41 AM  

valenumr: We are out of space in the ICU, and we are putting bodies in freezer trucks. One of the lowest covid incident states per capita.


We're not there yet, but I can sense it coming if things get any worse this fall/winter.
 
2021-09-15 12:06:33 PM  

DiggFerkel: Propaganda 101: Blame all problems on your opponents no matter what. Then you can free yourself of fault.


Cool, more BSAB nonsense. Or maybe the data proves that vaxxed people are less likely to contract the virus and in cases where they do they are extremely less likely to be hospitalized and further less likely to end up in the ICU and intubated. In all areas of measure, unvaxxed people make up the the overwhelming majority of C19 patients like require intervention at a medical facility. This is not about opinion, it's about facts.
 
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