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(AZCentral)   Arizona is pumping so much the Verde River soon won't be either   (azcentral.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Water, Water resources, Water supply, Drinking water, Groundwater, Hydrology, Irrigation, Phoenix, Arizona  
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3608 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Sep 2021 at 5:40 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-07 4:48:41 PM  
It is almost as if Arizona means a dry area. huh.
 
2021-09-07 5:43:19 PM  
Book it, done.

No way anyone will do the right thing... not our thing.
 
2021-09-07 5:44:03 PM  
Merde.
 
2021-09-07 5:48:02 PM  
I read the first five words of the headline and assumed the article was about a different subject.
 
2021-09-07 5:50:30 PM  
But the greens on the back 9 are okay, right?
 
2021-09-07 5:51:39 PM  
Yeah well I'm putting in a new pool anyway and I need water for my grass tennis courts.
 
2021-09-07 5:55:14 PM  
Yup. Lived in Phoenix 08-14, and can attest that they treat water like it's everywhere and plentiful. My parents moved there after I did and decided to full retire there. Haven't talked to them about the water lately. Mostly because the conversation would likely devolve into blaming immigrants or something.

But the amount of water that they use to try and make it so that the 118 degree heat bearable by spraying it directly into the air is crazy. Not to mention used for just ornamental like lakes or grass. Then you go adding in the fact that they actually grow crops there. Like oranges and corn. These take tons of water to irrigate. It's a desert.

Then there were the people who had some sort of old water rights and would literally flood their lawn from an aquifer to water it. Like several inches of water. Just so their palm trees would grow and have green grass. There was one house I drove by every day that would flood their lot at least twice a month.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix dry out in a decade.
 
2021-09-07 5:55:57 PM  
"The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."


Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?
 
2021-09-07 5:59:38 PM  

Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?


But it's cold in the Midwest, and furthermore there is money to be made.

This will be a problem, but the assholes who caused the problem are going to be dead, so what do those morons care?
 
2021-09-07 6:00:32 PM  
"It's a water problem throughout the state and throughout the West," he said. "And I know the Verde River is going down."
The reasons include more people moving to the area, which is leading to increased groundwater pumping, Bindell said.
"Construction, from my point of view, is out of control here," he said. "I'm not anti-development, but I am for planned development and slower development."


This isn't just from farming.
 
2021-09-07 6:02:54 PM  
Really should have got working on the desalination thing.
 
2021-09-07 6:03:41 PM  

Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?


Heck, some places here in the midwest water is so plentiful, pumping water out of the ground for crops is an abnormality.
 
2021-09-07 6:06:24 PM  

logieal: Yup. Lived in Phoenix 08-14, and can attest that they treat water like it's everywhere and plentiful. My parents moved there after I did and decided to full retire there. Haven't talked to them about the water lately. Mostly because the conversation would likely devolve into blaming immigrants or something.

But the amount of water that they use to try and make it so that the 118 degree heat bearable by spraying it directly into the air is crazy. Not to mention used for just ornamental like lakes or grass. Then you go adding in the fact that they actually grow crops there. Like oranges and corn. These take tons of water to irrigate. It's a desert.

Then there were the people who had some sort of old water rights and would literally flood their lawn from an aquifer to water it. Like several inches of water. Just so their palm trees would grow and have green grass. There was one house I drove by every day that would flood their lot at least twice a month.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix dry out in a decade.


I know what you mean! And I'm not sure it will even last a decade now. The magas in AZ. seem to want to destroy the planet at this point.
 
2021-09-07 6:08:30 PM  

logieal: Then there were the people who had some sort of old water rights and would literally flood their lawn from an aquifer to water it. Like several inches of water. Just so their palm trees would grow and have green grass. There was one house I drove by every day that would flood their lot at least twice a month.


It's been a while, but I thought that water was diverted from canals? Some rights to access those canals for those properties or something? Supposedly less frequent flooding promoted better root growth and plant drought tolerance than more frequent sprinkler use?

/Remember driving down College Ave and seeing the flooded lawns, getting a kick.
 
2021-09-07 6:09:40 PM  

logieal: Yup. Lived in Phoenix 08-14, and can attest that they treat water like it's everywhere and plentiful. My parents moved there after I did and decided to full retire there. Haven't talked to them about the water lately. Mostly because the conversation would likely devolve into blaming immigrants or something.

But the amount of water that they use to try and make it so that the 118 degree heat bearable by spraying it directly into the air is crazy. Not to mention used for just ornamental like lakes or grass. Then you go adding in the fact that they actually grow crops there. Like oranges and corn. These take tons of water to irrigate. It's a desert.

Then there were the people who had some sort of old water rights and would literally flood their lawn from an aquifer to water it. Like several inches of water. Just so their palm trees would grow and have green grass. There was one house I drove by every day that would flood their lot at least twice a month.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix dry out in a decade.


Can't find the Wikipedia article about it, but this sounds so much like the natural gas boom where towns would openly burn vast amounts of gas on ornamental displays, thinking the supply would never run out. Until it did.

Hope Arizona is prepared for a rude, dry awakening.
 
2021-09-07 6:09:59 PM  

Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?


Because 80% of Americans Live east of Dallas/st. Louis and that 80% needs more corn?
 
2021-09-07 6:11:02 PM  
logieal: ...I wouldn't be surprised to see Phoenix dry out in a decade.

I have been told by long term residents here in Albuquerque that they used to think the same till about 2000 when they almost ran out of water.  Very serious here now about water use.
 
2021-09-07 6:11:02 PM  

fiddlehead: logieal: Then there were the people who had some sort of old water rights and would literally flood their lawn from an aquifer to water it. Like several inches of water. Just so their palm trees would grow and have green grass. There was one house I drove by every day that would flood their lot at least twice a month.

It's been a while, but I thought that water was diverted from canals? Some rights to access those canals for those properties or something? Supposedly less frequent flooding promoted better root growth and plant drought tolerance than more frequent sprinkler use?

/Remember driving down College Ave and seeing the flooded lawns, getting a kick.


It's possible, there were lots of the roadside canals. This was down in Gilbert. I'm sure there is a perfectly good reason to have plants that use lots of water in a desert, but I haven't seen any.
 
2021-09-07 6:14:09 PM  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
DVD
2021-09-07 6:14:32 PM  
We need more reservoirs and lots of humidity/atmospheric water farms to fill those reservoirs.  Oh, and helping California build a few more desalination plants wouldn't be bad.  Make an agreement on a return on investment being a large share of that water.
 
2021-09-07 6:16:17 PM  
Weigh your worth before her Majesty the dessicated husk of the Verde River...
 
2021-09-07 6:17:58 PM  

cyberspacedout: Merde.


sin una paleta
 
2021-09-07 6:21:18 PM  

zepillin: Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?

Because 80% of Americans Live east of Dallas/st. Louis and that 80% needs more corn?


I've lived in the Southeast and there's a lot of stuff they need more of, but corn ain't one of 'em.
 
2021-09-07 6:21:27 PM  

zepillin: Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?

Because 80% of Americans Live east of Dallas/st. Louis and that 80% needs more corn?


Lol, you are kidding right?

Go to Iowa and Illinois.

We don't need more corn.  Hell we already export like 15 percent of the corn we grow.
 
2021-09-07 6:24:11 PM  
The natives will be just fine.   Meanwhile, everyone will blame Nestle and alfalfa farmers and ranchers.   And people will still keep moving there,
 
2021-09-07 6:25:24 PM  

fngoofy: Book it, done.

No way anyone will do the right thing... not our thing.


Tragedy of the commons.
 
2021-09-07 6:27:33 PM  

Nadie_AZ: "It's a water problem throughout the state and throughout the West," he said. "And I know the Verde River is going down."
The reasons include more people moving to the area, which is leading to increased groundwater pumping, Bindell said.
"Construction, from my point of view, is out of control here," he said. "I'm not anti-development, but I am for planned development and slower development."

This isn't just from farming.


Nope.

The people who run Prescott (my lifelong home town and the biggest drain on the aquifer that supplies the Verde) seem to feel it's every rancher's god given right to sell their acreage to a developer who will petition the city for annexation and water to build 10 McMansions per acre plus golf courses.

It was practically the sole issue in our last city council election and the incumbents were literally screaming that anyone who thinks water could ever run out is a commie.
 
2021-09-07 6:27:51 PM  

Petey4335: Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?

Heck, some places here in the midwest water is so plentiful, pumping water out of the ground for crops is an abnormality.


The Ogallala Aquifer would like a word.
 
2021-09-07 6:31:39 PM  

Petey4335: Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?

Heck, some places here in the midwest water is so plentiful, pumping water out of the ground for crops is an abnormality.


The Ogallala aquifer is in serious trouble from overpumping. I guess it depends on where you live.
 
2021-09-07 6:39:53 PM  

JessieL: Nadie_AZ: "It's a water problem throughout the state and throughout the West," he said. "And I know the Verde River is going down."
The reasons include more people moving to the area, which is leading to increased groundwater pumping, Bindell said.
"Construction, from my point of view, is out of control here," he said. "I'm not anti-development, but I am for planned development and slower development."

This isn't just from farming.

Nope.

The people who run Prescott (my lifelong home town and the biggest drain on the aquifer that supplies the Verde) seem to feel it's every rancher's god given right to sell their acreage to a developer who will petition the city for annexation and water to build 10 McMansions per acre plus golf courses.

It was practically the sole issue in our last city council election and the incumbents were literally screaming that anyone who thinks water could ever run out is a commie.


I stare at groundwater models at work and listen to people who know more than me and try to learn as much as I can so I can be informed. Plus part of it is my job. We are a runaway train headed towards a cliff. 'Sustainable growth' is a massive lie. Do you know how they want to account for water for new neighborhoods? Count the waste water from existing homes towards a renewable source of water. No lie. If you want water to run out of your faucet, your neighbor down the road had better be flushing the toilet. There isn't enough of that water so they make it up via paper water magic wands. Homes will go dry within a decade of purchase.

I get so depressed from all of this. So utterly depressed. I would rather be out in the desert loving and living than stuck watching this horror show- one that continues because, as I've been told several times, 'it is legal'. I have to get out.
 
2021-09-07 6:43:23 PM  
What if I told you the plan of giga-rich is to make a desperate situation so people/governments are forced to pay them gazillions of dollars for the new water infrastructure.
 
2021-09-07 6:44:32 PM  

rightClick: What if I told you the plan of giga-rich is to make a desperate situation so people/governments are forced to pay them gazillions of dollars for the new water infrastructure.


or alternately, make the situation so bad you filthy peons just up leave and they can take over all the property for themselves.
 
2021-09-07 6:45:28 PM  

rightClick: What if I told you the plan of giga-rich is to make a desperate situation so people/governments are forced to pay them gazillions of dollars for the new water infrastructure.


I would tell you I'm not at all surprised.

Big Ag sucks water so low that only Big Ag can afford to drill down that far to install new wells. Who owns the water then? Big Ag. We are seeing this in some parts of this state. It is happening in the Midwest, too. I imagine it is happening in California as well.
 
2021-09-07 6:45:33 PM  
Is Arizona determined to ruin everything?  You'd almost think they were Texas or Florida.
 
2021-09-07 6:49:50 PM  

zeroman987: zepillin: Moose out front: "The largest declines have occurred in rural areas where there are no limits on pumping, and where large corporate farming operations have moved in and drilled new wells.

Vast megafarms have proliferated in the desert, irrigating tens of thousands of acres of alfalfa, corn, pistachios and other crops."

Why? WHY??

Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?

Because 80% of Americans Live east of Dallas/st. Louis and that 80% needs more corn?

Lol, you are kidding right?

Go to Iowa and Illinois.

We don't need more corn.  Hell we already export like 15 percent of the corn we grow.


Everybody exports it Arizona exports a biatch to Mexico and the Saudi's Take it to Arabia so they can have burgers and then there's ethanol
 
2021-09-07 6:50:57 PM  

iheartscotch: Really should have got working on the desalination thing.


They are. In that great article on the Colorado River water somebody posted a day or two ago. Apparently Arizona is starting negotiations with Mexico to build a desalinization plant by the Gulf of California.
 
2021-09-07 6:55:04 PM  
Salt Lake is drying up because of all the diverted river water.  Evaporation from Salt Lake is a major source of rain and snow pack.  It would probably cost a billion or two but I like to toy with the idea of "what if" we pumped sea water into it to fill it back up, so we could both protect the lake bed and get some more precipitation in the southwest
 
2021-09-07 7:06:16 PM  

winedrinkingman: Salt Lake is drying up because of all the diverted river water.  Evaporation from Salt Lake is a major source of rain and snow pack.  It would probably cost a billion or two but I like to toy with the idea of "what if" we pumped sea water into it to fill it back up, so we could both protect the lake bed and get some more precipitation in the southwest


That's one solution that is being discussed regarding the Salton Sea. I don't see it happening to the Great Salt Lake, but I don't know if they'll do it with the Salton Sea. It's basically a bandaide on a deeply systemic issue of chronic overuse.
 
2021-09-07 7:07:53 PM  
Every home I have ever lived in or bought sat on a spring.
Except in Albuquerque
Ain't no water there.

I know a few poisoned water holes there.
 
2021-09-07 7:08:30 PM  
Weigh your worth before her majesty the Verde River.
 
2021-09-07 7:24:04 PM  
You know what was there a 1000 years ago?  Sand.

You know what will be there 1000 years from now?

i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-07 7:41:29 PM  
The planet is burning yet people keep moving to the desert.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
DVD
2021-09-07 7:50:07 PM  

DVD: We need more reservoirs and lots of humidity/atmospheric water farms to fill those reservoirs.  Oh, and helping California build a few more desalination plants wouldn't be bad.  Make an agreement on a return on investment being a large share of that water.


______________________________

I just came up with a separate great idea... get SpaceX's Starship fully developed SOON, and then have 20 of them capture and then gently lower a comet in an Arizona valley!

/Why not?

//What could possibly go wrong?

///Do it near Flagstaff!
 
2021-09-07 7:53:30 PM  

Kris_Romm: Is Arizona determined to ruin everything?  You'd almost think they were Texas or Florida.


Yes. Their long term plan is literally to run a pipeline to the Great Lakes.
 
2021-09-07 7:53:59 PM  

zeroman987: zepillin: Moose out front: Why? WHY??
Why are you growing corn and alfalfa in the desert, where water is scarce, when the Midwest is full of water rich land to grow corn?
Because 80% of Americans Live east of Dallas/st. Louis and that 80% needs more corn?
Lol, you are kidding right?
Go to Iowa and Illinois.
We don't need more corn.  Hell we already export like 15 percent of the corn we grow.


Ethanol. And corn syrup. The ethanol was a give-away to corn states way back when. The environmentalists caught it, I don't know how many other people did. They were supposed to be researching biofuels or something, and suddenly BAM! We had an entire new industry growing corn for auto fuel.
 
2021-09-07 7:54:58 PM  

winedrinkingman: Salt Lake is drying up because of all the diverted river water.  Evaporation from Salt Lake is a major source of rain and snow pack.  It would probably cost a billion or two but I like to toy with the idea of "what if" we pumped sea water into it to fill it back up, so we could both protect the lake bed and get some more precipitation in the southwest


The problem isn't the pipeline cost, though at $2,000,000 a mile x 700 miles, you're still looking at $1.4 Billion. The problem is the energy needed to move water uphill. It costs around $10 in electricity to raise 1 acre-foot of water by 1 ft in elevation. At an altitude of 4,200 ft, each acre-foot of water you dump in Salt Lake would cost $42,000. Current price of an acre-foot in Utah is around $150.
 
2021-09-07 7:55:50 PM  
Oh well. Don't be such assholes towards the environment.
 
2021-09-07 7:59:40 PM  
 
2021-09-07 8:17:05 PM  

GardenWeasel: Whoever funnied me, I'm not kidding

https://bigthink.com/technology-innova​tion/an-interstate-water-system-could-​fix-the-wests-water-woes

https://www.wateronline.com/doc/is-get​ting-great-lakes-water-southwest-just-​pipedream-0001

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local​/michigan/2017/04/10/great-lakes-water​-piped-southwest-our-future-says-nasa-​scientist/100301326/


It's funny because it's true.
 
2021-09-07 8:58:11 PM  
Meh, it's Paulden.  Who gives a fark?  Less water for meth labs I guess
 
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