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(MSN)   Minnesota State Patrol destroyed massive amounts of evidence after the protests in the wake of George Floyd's murder   (msn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Police, Minnesota State Patrol officers, TNS Minnesota State Patrol officers, Riot control, State Patrol Maj. Joseph Dwyer, Minnesota, mass purge of emails, law enforcement  
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4488 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 06 Sep 2021 at 1:55 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-09-06 11:31:58 AM  
Criminals doing criminal destruction of evidence isn't a surprise. Having something to hide and destroying records should result in firings and criminal charges if possible.
 
2021-09-06 11:36:34 AM  
Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.
 
2021-09-06 11:37:31 AM  
Let's try to stay focused on the real problem.  Tom Brady upgraded his phone.
 
2021-09-06 12:19:27 PM  

unixpro: Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.


This. Unless there system was set up to be able to purge records, individual officers can't do this. The server admin would have it set to keep copies as they are required to do for state record retention purposes.

There attempting to delete them is a crime. Charge them criminally.
 
2021-09-06 1:06:24 PM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-09-06 1:07:02 PM  

unixpro: Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.


username checks out
 
2021-09-06 1:59:31 PM  

unixpro: Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.


Not always.  Knowing the police, they configured it so that no permanent backups are made.  Can't have emails of concern to the public made public.  A large corporation will permanently archive all email to comply with data retention laws.  Cops don't follow the law.
 
2021-09-06 1:59:56 PM  
as the courts and other investigators attempt to reconstruct whether law enforcement used improper force in the chaos

The hundreds of videos on the internet of them using improper force isn't enough to determine if they were using improper force?
 
2021-09-06 2:01:26 PM  

eurotrader: Criminals doing criminal destruction of evidence isn't a surprise. Having something to hide and destroying records should result in firings and criminal charges if possible.


"Should" is doing some really heavy lifting there.
 
2021-09-06 2:02:17 PM  
There should be a law against destroying evidence ..
 
2021-09-06 2:03:47 PM  
The only way to deal with this is to assume that whatever was deleted was as terrible as can possibly be imagined. Adverse inferences to the extreme.

You don't have the record to show that you didn't do anything wrong? Well, isn't that too bad.
 
2021-09-06 2:04:58 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Let's try to stay focused on the real problem.  Tom Brady upgraded his phone.


Is that what we call it these days?
 
2021-09-06 2:05:08 PM  
as the courts and other investigators attempt to reconstruct whether law enforcement used improper force in the chaos following George Floyd's murder.

If they are deleting emails, tweets and any other evidence, seems pretty obvious they were using improper force. Plus they are pigs so all they know how to do is lie.
 
2021-09-06 2:08:09 PM  

Ker_Thwap: Let's try to stay focused on the real problem.  Tom Brady upgraded his phone.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-06 2:08:31 PM  
Guess what, file the lawsuits, their destruction of evidence can actually help your case. The legal principal is call spoilation, if there should be evidence retained but the defending party intentionally destroyed it the court will assume the facts you present are supported by the destroyed evidence if the facts are reasonable. If you say officers of the department conspired to use unreasonable force to suppress your civil rights and the officers destroyed communications then it's reasonable to assume they did. You're not going to get any individual convicted if a criminal act this way, but a collective civil rights action should be a slam dunk between the video evidence and the destroyed records.
 
2021-09-06 2:08:50 PM  
We all assumed that, right?
 
2021-09-06 2:10:35 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-06 2:12:08 PM  
Please, try and understand.   These were police officers.  These things happen.
 
2021-09-06 2:13:26 PM  
I can only imagine how many racist jokes that they were circulating.
 
2021-09-06 2:15:09 PM  
This would be illegal if it wasn't for the people doing it.
 
2021-09-06 2:18:23 PM  
Pigs being pigs.  I'm shocked.
 
2021-09-06 2:24:09 PM  
Throw these thugs in prison for destruction of evidence. Let them join a non-state-sanctioned gang for a change.
 
2021-09-06 2:32:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-06 2:33:51 PM  
Send them to Gitmo and forget about them.
 
2021-09-06 2:42:06 PM  

genner: Ker_Thwap: Let's try to stay focused on the real problem.  Tom Brady upgraded his phone.

[Fark user image image 850x477]


F*ck tom brady.
 
2021-09-06 2:44:28 PM  
.

cretinbob: [i.imgflip.com image 531x470]


This.

Look, I found some evidence:
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/​1​266193926316228609
 
2021-09-06 3:13:58 PM  
FTA:
"He said it's up each individual at the State Patrol on when they want to delete these records, and it's a "recommended practice" to purge after a major event."

Usually, committing a crime involves one person. Covering up that crime usually involves many more people.
Justice should be served accordingly.
 
2021-09-06 3:27:49 PM  

Catlenfell: I can only imagine how many racist jokes that they were circulating.


I'm going to put money on, "all of them."
 
2021-09-06 3:28:44 PM  
"Police practice the time honored tradition of C.Y.A.! Film at 11!"
 
2021-09-06 3:36:47 PM  

payattention: "Police practice the time honored tradition of C.Y.A.! No film at 11!"


Ftfy
 
2021-09-06 3:44:56 PM  
I have bad news for the officers. Deleted e-mails, unless you wipe them as a server admin (IT department) aren't gone. They are easily recoverable and the Feds likely have recovered them. Also, unless the admin did a high quality wipe, the data is still recoverable from the drive. The fact that we are hearing about this and the FBI didn't seize any servers as part of their investigation means the feds went to the IT department and gave them a warrant for all data on the servers, especially any deleted e-mails and other communications from that time period. They then slapped a gag order on the IT department to not talk about it.

The real question is will the DoJ actually charge anyone with destruction of evidence or just turn the data over to any civil rights lawsuits.

\the FBI needs to get back to its roots and just start investigating police and city level corruption
\\constantly, so that local police aren't getting away with actual murder ALL THE TIME!
 
2021-09-06 3:48:43 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-09-06 3:50:03 PM  
FTFA: "The lead plaintiff... was "shot in the face with less-lethal ballistic ammunition"

Still alive to sue.... I'd say it worked as designed...
 
2021-09-06 3:53:42 PM  

jackandwater: genner: Ker_Thwap: Let's try to stay focused on the real problem.  Tom Brady upgraded his phone.

[Fark user image image 850x477]

F*ck tom brady.


I'm sure you dream about it...

/Kidding!
 
2021-09-06 4:11:31 PM  
Fire them all. Charge them under RICO. Bring in new cops from across the country, and let them know that Internal Affairs will be the DoJ and federal agents.

Repeat 3000 times across the country.

Having trouble finding new cops? RIF some top folks in the military to serve as cops, with existing Rules of Engagement and the UCMJ to keep them in line. Add 30% to their pay to attract the best.
 
2021-09-06 4:13:08 PM  

kendelrio: FTFA: "The lead plaintiff... was "shot in the face with less-lethal ballistic ammunition"

Still alive to sue.... I'd say it worked as designed...


Fark user imageView Full Size


And the broken nose, missing teeth, broken jaw...

Less than lethal ≠ (no damage or maiming). These things don't just cause pain, they also break thin bones and heavily bruise the target, which is why the police are not supposed to aim for the face with them. Accidents will happen, of course, but when almost all the impacts on the protestors are above the shoulders on every protestor, it is obvious where the pigs were aiming.
 
2021-09-06 4:13:12 PM  
Destruction of evidence should be considered an admission of guilt.  :p
 
2021-09-06 4:14:11 PM  

mikalmd: There should be a law against destroying evidence ..


Quis custodiet...
 
2021-09-06 4:16:15 PM  

kendelrio: FTFA: "The lead plaintiff... was "shot in the face with less-lethal ballistic ammunition"

Still alive to sue.... I'd say it worked as designed...


Not always...Bosgon PD killed a woman with, IIRC, a "pepper ball" projectile fired at her head.
 
2021-09-06 4:17:37 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: I have bad news for the officers. Deleted e-mails, unless you wipe them as a server admin (IT department) aren't gone. They are easily recoverable and the Feds likely have recovered them. Also, unless the admin did a high quality wipe, the data is still recoverable from the drive. The fact that we are hearing about this and the FBI didn't seize any servers as part of their investigation means the feds went to the IT department and gave them a warrant for all data on the servers, especially any deleted e-mails and other communications from that time period. They then slapped a gag order on the IT department to not talk about it.


That depends entirely on how the mail server was configured.  If the police department had any say on the set up and configuration, you can be damn sure deleting is possible.
 
2021-09-06 4:18:59 PM  
This probably won't go too far.  the Governor is a Democrat, the mayor of Minneapolis is a Democrat, the chief of MPD is a Democrat, all the members of the city council are Democrats, and the BLM and other groups that incited the Floyd riots were Democrats and other liberals.  the Minnesota attorney general also happens to be a Democrat, so unless they can find a way to completely blame Trump for all this, it will just fade away.
 
2021-09-06 4:25:50 PM  

OgreMagi: unixpro: Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.

Not always.  Knowing the police, they configured it so that no permanent backups are made.  Can't have emails of concern to the public made public.  A large corporation will permanently archive all email to comply with data retention laws.  Cops don't follow the law.


Our local barneys did just that.
 
2021-09-06 4:34:57 PM  
Odd how police have to continually break the aw in order for them to enforce the law.
 
2021-09-06 4:43:07 PM  

indy_kid: Fire them all. Charge them under RICO. Bring in new cops from across the country, and let them know that Internal Affairs will be the DoJ and federal agents.

Repeat 3000 times across the country.

Having trouble finding new cops? RIF some top folks in the military to serve as cops, with existing Rules of Engagement and the UCMJ to keep them in line. Add 30% to their pay to attract the best.


I approve of all of these except the deployment of military forces to function as police. Other than a Governor calling up the National Guard in a state of emergency (which is legally defined) or putting down an active insurrection, it is illegal at the federal level to use military forces as law enforcement, even though you are correct that the UFCJ and rules of engagement are better at enforcing discipline and preventing excessive uses of force than our current methods of oversight for police, but you have brought up an excellent idea for preventing police misconduct.

Place them under such rules, with the Feds in charge of oversight and optional state level oversight. They are paramilitary forces anyway and they should be held to a higher standard than the average citizen as they have powers that are highly abusable, just like a soldier. Rules of engagement set by police chiefs/sheriffs for mission types and general orders from civilian law makers and judges. I would also make discipline hearing outcomes public and administered by the chain of command. Court marshals would be juried by elected officials and presided over by an administrative judge, with the entire process and evidence made public at the end of the trial, just like a criminal case. Any actions that result in discharge of the officer from the force (general, honorable, or dishonorable) would have qualified immunity protections stripped from them for civil and criminal charges.

Another thing that could be done is a discharge system like the military, with any dishonorable discharge disqualifying an officer from working in law enforcement or security, even as a bar bouncer or loss prevention associate. Discharge records would be public and a free database made. Hiring an officer that had been discharged or resigned from a force with a discharge of anything other than honorable would require a civilian review process that would be made public, including a 14 to 30 day public comment period.

\I fell like I should write this up and send it to my state legislature and my Senators
 
2021-09-06 5:05:45 PM  

labman: unixpro: Give 'em here.  I know some guys who can recover damned near anything.

By the way, all those things are usually captured on the server anyway, and permanently stored.  When you "delete" something all you're really doing, most of the time, is setting a flag that says whether of not you can see it.  Databases, especially production-level databases with two-phase commit and multiple redundancies, remember everything.

This. Unless there system was set up to be able to purge records, individual officers can't do this. The server admin would have it set to keep copies as they are required to do for state record retention purposes.

There attempting to delete them is a crime. Charge them criminally.


Your inappropriate use of "there" vs. "their" distracted me from your legitimate point.
 
2021-09-06 5:15:53 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: kendelrio: FTFA: "The lead plaintiff... was "shot in the face with less-lethal ballistic ammunition"

Still alive to sue.... I'd say it worked as designed...

[Fark user image image 248x248]

And the broken nose, missing teeth, broken jaw...

Less than lethal ≠ (no damage or maiming). These things don't just cause pain, they also break thin bones and heavily bruise the target, which is why the police are not supposed to aim for the face with them. Accidents will happen, of course, but when almost all the impacts on the protestors are above the shoulders on every protestor, it is obvious where the pigs were aiming.


I forgot the "/s" in my post... apologies....
 
2021-09-06 5:39:33 PM  

ChubbyTiger: The only way to deal with this is to assume that whatever was deleted was as terrible as can possibly be imagined. Adverse inferences to the extreme.

You don't have the record to show that you didn't do anything wrong? Well, isn't that too bad.


So China released Covid to cover up an email about Benghazi?  Sorry ... the evidence was destroyed so we know who choked out Epstein.

That's right. Aliens!
 
2021-09-06 5:49:32 PM  

robodog: Guess what, file the lawsuits, their destruction of evidence can actually help your case. The legal principal is call spoilation, if there should be evidence retained but the defending party intentionally destroyed it the court will assume the facts you present are supported by the destroyed evidence if the facts are reasonable. If you say officers of the department conspired to use unreasonable force to suppress your civil rights and the officers destroyed communications then it's reasonable to assume they did. You're not going to get any individual convicted if a criminal act this way, but a collective civil rights action should be a slam dunk between the video evidence and the destroyed records.


I recently got a new job at a bank and had to do all sorts of training stuff.  They covered this a couple times. They way they passed it on was that if you destroy evidence, you can be charged with the worst possible reasonable crime and lose.  Also it's a cringe itself.  So don't.

Also, something about the company lawyers beating you with a stick.  I don't really understand legalese.
 
2021-09-06 6:36:45 PM  

caljar: This probably won't go too far.  the Governor is a Democrat, the mayor of Minneapolis is a Democrat, the chief of MPD is a Democrat, all the members of the city council are Democrats, and the BLM and other groups that incited the Floyd riots were Democrats and other liberals.  the Minnesota attorney general also happens to be a Democrat, so unless they can find a way to completely blame Trump for all this, it will just fade away.


Difficulty: Bob Kroll

/The Minneapolis Police Department is basically unaccountable to elected officials.
 
2021-09-06 7:24:48 PM  
Abolish the police.

Also, police records should not be stored by the police. It's absurd that this is the default. Records should be maintained by bodies independent from the police, at both the local and state levels. No one should be able to delete anything without the coordination of at least three separate goverment bodies, each of which should be required to have representatives sign off, by name, on each deletion request, and each request should specify exactly what is being deleted and why.
 
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